345, I would take either combo, assuming that the statement about the 35'er being within weights is accurate, 8200 lbs is a lot for an Expedition....the longer trailer doesn't bother me, even with the 1/2 ton Expedition, because the design of the Arrow is such that the trailer cannot exert any sway input to the truck. For more details on the mecahnics of it, see the sticky at the top of the forum "Hensley Arrow: How does it really work?" started by our own Willald.
It's somewhat self-limiting because if you look at axle placement on a TT that long, you're probably at a tongue weight of 1,000-1,200 lbs, putting you over the GVWR of the Expy before you hit the tow rating. Using the Expy as an example, with a family of 4, you probably only have 600-800 lbs or so before you hit GVWR, so if you're watching weights, the longest trailer you can really pull is going to be about 28-30'.
Keith99RS wrote: If a sway control system is working properly, how does one deteermine if it is eliminating sway or controlling sway? Honestly. If it is working properly you should not be experiencing sway. If sway is controlled have you therefore eliminated it?
This gets brought up all the time when these comparisons come up. Per Reese the DC controls sway before it starts if properly set up. Is that not eliminating it? Per Hensley owners, the others are controlling sway while the Hensley eliminates it. See the circle?
Whether a person thinks these hitches are worth it or not boils down to whether that person believes (or not) that he can control sway, without investing in the overpriced fancy hitch. Whether it actually is worth the investment or not boils down to whether that person was right about their ability to control sway.
The concern that motivated me to go with a hitch that eliminates sway (I have yet to read a post anywhere that disputes this) is that, by the time I realized my efforts hadn't eliminated sway enough with a friction sway control hitch, it would be too late - like the friends of the OP.
2009 Jayco G2 32BHDS, 2007 Toyota Tundra SR5 Crew Max w/tow package, Michelin LTX/AT2 275/65 R18, Load range E., Rancho 9000XL shocks, Air Lifts, Hensley Arrow hitch
can a premium WD and sway system eliminate sway from happening assuming the TV is more then capable and set up properly?
Here we go, and I'll say it again for all the peanut gallery who have never owned one and yet comment more than most.......everyone listening......???????
YES (in my experience)
Once again, we are 6 pages into a discussion of "sway control" without having defined "sway". In addition to the above question, the OP also stated,
"I know sway can still happen with a 5er but you do not seem to hear about it as much if all is set up properly."
This begs the question -- If "sway" can happen with a 5er, how is it that "sway" cannot happen with a TT being towed by a "premium" hitch?
I think BurbMan gave the best assessment regarding "control" versus "eliminate":
"The Hensley, ProPride and PullRite are 3 hitches that do not rely on friction to control sway, they use geometry to "project" the pivot point between trailer and tow vehicle to a point close to the rear axle. See the sticky at the top of the forum about "Hensley Arrow: How it Really Works". Whether they can control sway 100% of the time is academic, but their designs are far superior to friction-based sway control, and at a minimum they offer a level of sway prevention that is waaaaay beyond anything else on the market."
There is an important safety concern which has been overlooked in this thread -- the "bump". Every hitch which must rely on a 4-bar linkage for sway control has an undesirable, and potentially unsafe, feature. This feature, which is fondly known as the "bump", can arise when the TT is allowed to push forward against the linkage. The "bump" can result from TT brakes which malfunction or are not properly adjusted, and it can result from a brake controller which malfunctions or is not properly adjusted.
A 5er does not have the "bump"; and, IMO, a 5er is inherently more safe than a TT connected to a 4-bar hitch. A PullRite does not have the "bump"; and, IMO, a PullRite is inherently more safe than a TT connected to 4-bar hitch.
If I were ranking TT hitches as "good", "better", and "best", I would put the PullRite alone in the "best" category.
Ron
(one of the "peanut gallery who have never owned one" -- but, I do know of a couple ORF members who have owned both a 4-bar hitch and a PullRite; and I think they might agree with me)
Will / GMan / Burb,
Thanks for your thoughtful and respectful replies. We have a lot of common ground on our thinking. It looks like the premium hitches can help a TV handle a lot of length and once one is on, then increases in length really don't matter so long as you stay within weights. As GMan pointed out, they aren't 'mob accountants' covering up poor loading, speeding, tire psi, etc.
I do think, for the rest of us who are using more conventional anti-sway, we do need to keep some limits on the length we put behind our TVs and be somewhat cognizant of the wheelbase to TT length relationship.
2010 Skyline Layton 190
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L V8 4x4 3.73 Axles
Me, DW, daughter, Golden Retriever and Goldendoodle
Ron Gratz wrote: There is an important safety concern which has been overlooked in this thread -- the "bump". Every hitch which must rely on a 4-bar linkage for sway control has an undesirable, and potentially unsafe, feature. This feature, which is fondly known as the "bump", can arise when the TT is allowed to push forward against the linkage. The "bump" can result from TT brakes which malfunction or are not properly adjusted, and it can result from a brake controller which malfunctions or is not properly adjusted.
......
If I were ranking TT hitches as "good", "better", and "best", I would put the PullRite alone in the "best" category.
Agreed. The Pullrite gets the nod of the 3 of them, strictly in terms of towing stability. Like you said, the infamous 'bump' you can get with a converging link type hitch (Hensley or ProPride) puts them at a slight disadvantage to the Pullrite (although having your brake controller set right makes that a non-issue).
However, the OP did not ask for specific differences between the 3 premium hitches, and which of the 3 were better. That is a whole 'nother discussion, that has been addressed very well in other threads. The question here was 'can a premium WD and sway system eliminate sway from happening assuming the TV is more then capable and set up properly?' And, the answer is YES, as already said several times.
The Pullrite definitely has an advantage over the 3 strictly in terms of towing stability in that it can't cause the 'bump'. However, that advantage comes with some disadvantages, too, that have been discussed many times before (installation issues, lower ground clearance, loss or restricted use of hitch receiver for other purposes, etc).
Wow this turned into exactly what I did not want it to, a battle over which one is better. We have had lots of these and don't need another. My original question has been answered, very clearly in my mind, and I can not thank you all enough for that so please lets let this one die off and spend time on others posts. Thanks again. Talk about stirring the pot with my first post, sorry for that. Not my intention when I posted it.
Keith99RS wrote: If a sway control system is working properly, how does one deteermine if it is eliminating sway or controlling sway? Honestly. If it is working properly you should not be experiencing sway. If sway is controlled have you therefore eliminated it?
This gets brought up all the time when these comparisons come up. Per Reese the DC controls sway before it starts if properly set up. Is that not eliminating it? Per Hensley owners, the others are controlling sway while the Hensley eliminates it. See the circle?
I think that is very easy and I always did it when I was using the traditional friction control sway bar. Often I had to tighten the tension along side the road when I didn't have enough friction between the pads and the slide bar.
Get the rig out on the freeway (2 lanes in your direction) on a straight stretch of road with no traffic and dry surface. Slow down to around 50 mph (you can tell even at 40mph since speed is a factor, but you can get a better feel for what you are doing by starting out at a slower speed), move into the center of the road and do a couple of smooth side to side motions of the steeing wheel. Now don't jerk things just some quick movements and then straighten out the steering wheel and watch the end of the trailer. The trailer rear should swing a liitle to one side and then come back directly in line with no or almost undetectable overswing. I even use this technique with my Equal-i-zer hitch. The idea is to get the end of the trailer moving to one side or the other and make sure it returns after that first swing with no over swing.
dwalt1979 wrote: Wow this turned into exactly what I did not want it to, a battle over which one is better. We have had lots of these and don't need another. My original question has been answered, very clearly in my mind, and I can not thank you all enough for that so please lets let this one die off and spend time on others posts. Thanks again. Talk about stirring the pot with my first post, sorry for that. Not my intention when I posted it.
Don't stress over it. There are certain topics that you can't help generating a "live" discussion over. There are lots of folks who are just waiting for the opportunity for debate on these. Generataors, hitches, towing with 1/2 ton trucks. If you ask questions in these areas, you will get far more than you bargained. That's no reason to avoid asking. If the discussion gets rough, the moderators will step in. Otherwise, we're all enjoying the fun.
My conclusion, everybodies own set up is the best and no one can tell them otherwise. Also, you get what you pay for. The lower end ones will get you from point a to b but by no means a guarenteed thing and are best left to shorter trips on known roads. The mid level ones will do the job as long as you do not push the limits and the premium stuff has a premium cost for a reason, it is about as close to a guarenteed thing to prevent/stop sway as you can get but in the real world, anything can happen and even they have their limits. Sway is apart of pulling a trailer and the best thing to do is buy your "system" but in the end learning how to load your trailer and how to deal with sway once it starts to happen is the only real way to keep you safe because as I said, anything can happen even with the best stuff.
Thanks again, your help was very much appreciated.
Offline
