Very disappointed in the new 4200 Cyclone floor plan...I was hoping for a full timer type floor plan with a decent living room...something like the 4000 Elite with more room in the living room area...
Hmmm, so GM has quietly stepped up and fixed the CP4.2 problem. Not trying to cause an argument here, but I wonder when they're going to quietly step up and fix the '05 overheating issues? No more GM products for me.
no argument from me...but it is a fact that GM has quietly fixed all the 2011 and up Bosch CP4 series breakdowns...and Ford routinely rejects their HPFP warranty claims...
One of the members here and a bit of an unwelcome guy at FTE, posted the numbers a while back. The coverage cost appears to vary depending on what one has for a factory extended warranty...IIRC, The last numbers I saw for a 2011 Ford 6.7 were $64 a quarter...same GM was $16 a quarter...maybe the man in the know will clear it up....
Even at $64 per quarter, it is cheap insurance against a Very likely denial of a $10000 Ford warranty claim...
The reason is because there is not supposed to be any pivoting motion at the fifth wheel attachment point. The lash point on the fifth wheel uses a blocking plate to prevent motion at that point and allow the rearward pivot point on the Sidewinder to do the work...
...and the new Blue KoolAid King reaches new depths to try to defend his Ford....
Send me that broken drum. I'll fix it up a bit and forward it to Texas :B
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTArXgDpOQk7Vj7VjcAzNStWl4mL7IWn9LWnI7OmCTOhzcx6n6RmA height=225 width=225
When Ford got done running over my "Big Blue Drum", there was not enough left to salvage...think tin can ran over by an Abrahm's tank
I was thinking about that recently closed thread and the new drummer...while I do not object to the veracity if his defense of the "Blue Oval", I do wish he would not try to forward his feckless arguments by attempting to defend Ford by his relentless bashing of the competition. The political rants are disingenuous at best and the feeble attempts to imply that the new Ram HD's may have the delicate Bosch CP4 series HPFP are a even more than disingenuous...
If one still believes that Ford's shameful treatment of their failed HPFP warranty considerations does not exist, I will again point to the 400% higher Mechanical Breakdown insurance premiums that the Gecco charges for the same coverage on a Ford over a GM...
I remember back when Ford fans were anxiously awaiting the debut of the 6.0. The Dmax had been stealing all their thunder and pride...
The 6.0 was to have cast iron heads AND more power than the Dmax....
Nirvana was close at hand...
Well that fizzeled. The replacement 6.4 wasn't much better, as it appeared that Ford gave up on it as soon as it was introduced.
With it's previously stellar reputation in tatters, I really thought that Ford would at the very least stand behind this latest diesel that they themselves designed and produced... Unlike the previous motors, they would have nobody to blame if it flopped.
So I find it really curious that they have taken this anti consumer warranty stance, especially when the competition is taking care of their customers.
The NHSTA numbers show that GM has a higher failure rate than Ford.
But these numbers are skewed some, as Ford doesn't count the ones that they denied warranty on. I suspect that the total failure rate is very close to the same.
I am pretty sure of what GMs motivation is to just handle it in the customers favor. The Dmax has a pretty good reputation over the last 13 years.. Not by any means trouble free, but it has outlasted the Ford offerings. And with being a spectator to Fords missteps, I am sure that they don't want to follow them. And finally there is a certain amount of stigma attached to them because of the govt. bailout.
This failure still seems to be rare. But it is ridiculously expensive if it happens to you.
I've also read the Ford 6.7 has a higher insurance premiums. Seems the Comp coverage is much higher than GM's. LINK Now granted these charts don't show exactly why the comp is higher, but clearly 4 SD's have poor comp ratings. Some reason the Mega cabs also got poor ratings.
Maybe that goes to show just which owners are making claims and which ones don't need to :B
On the insurance premium front, Geico offers Mechanical Breakdown insurance coverage. I believe the "dog" has it. IIRC, the last I heard, premiums for covering the Ford 6.7 diesel with this insurance were 400% more than the DuraMax...The Gecco gets it:B:B:B...
Yep, B&W truly is an awesome company, great to their employess and customers, and they make excellent products that work reliably and exceptionally well. I have the Turnoverball gooseneck hitch and the adjustable receiver ball hitch too. Both are great. :)
B&W needs a little more product innovation. If they were to make a sliding version of their Companion hitch, it would sell like hotcakes to folks with short bed trucks that want a B&W, but need a slider. I really don't know why they haven't come out with one yet. Another company has already come out with one, to fit B&W's own Turnoverball socket.
It would also be good if they made an air cushioned version of the Companion. Those with really big trailers, being towed by stiffly sprung 1-ton duallys and medium duty class trucks would likely buy it up.
I looked at their new sliding Companion at the Hershey Show last Fall....here is a link to their YouTube video:
Companion Slider Video
My stepson stopped by Friday night. He has turned in his 2014 Chevy Silverado 1500 and is now driving a 2015 HD3500 DuraMax/Allison...unfortunately, crew cab versions are still scarce for the pre-production test/evaluators so he has a very nicely equipped standard cab truck. Very nice looking truck with a very nice interior...sure is quiet...test ride results coming soon...likely Thanksgiving Day.
Thanks for all of the replies. I traded my Ram 2500 in on a Chevy 1/2 ton last year and I haven't been keeping up with diesel engines on the forums. The 1/2 ton doesn't meet my needs and I need to go back to a 3/4 ton. It sounds like most on here would recommend that I go back with a Ram or Chevy. Is that true? Would either be a good choice?
I can't speak for anybody else but I'm not saying what to buy.
You asked how the 6.7's are and I pointed out they are having some problems and told you about those problems and even gave you several links to those problems.
I'm sure you will get lots of people saying their 6.7 has no problems. That's all good except just because they had no problems does not mean there are no problems. Case in point; I have had no problems with my 5.7 Olds diesel; the worst diesel ever manufactured. There are some that even to this day that think the 6.0 was a great engine. Funny thing is, even Ford disagrees with them.
The best thing to do is go on different forums and see what the common problems are.
First go on this forum and look for common problems.
Then go on this forum and look for common problems.
Go back 5, 10, 15 pages or so and look at the difference in problems between the two forums. I think you will be able to tell the difference immediately in the problems people post between the two forums.
...an excellent post. The Blue KoolAid Boy's are all guy's just like me before the "Shameful Ford Event". All one has to do is take a look at my story and they should be very concerned about the potential for the same sort of treatment from Ford. I do not care who you are or how long you have driven the Blue Oval, you will not fare any better than we did if you have a problem.
A short recap of the "Shameful Event". How about being a family that has had nothing but Ford's in their driveway for over 60 years. Two generations of engineers in the family working for Ford. One family member currently a very high level manager at a Ford facility. A truck with a meticulously kept record of all services performed at a ford dealership. The final conclusion of the dealership that eventually fixed the truck was it should be warrantied. If that list of document-able positives for Ford to chew on did not result in a warranty repair, what chance does anyone else have against the big Blue Oval when it comes to a warranty fight...the simple answer is none...
I would have a nice bit of money to spend if I had a dollar for every documented sale I scuttled because I stood up and fought this travesty as I did...and had Ford fixed my truck like they should have, they would have another $8 million in sales...sure looks like they made a good choice...
I am well aware that there are many here that would like me to go away. One Ford board decided that I caused too much dissension and asked me to stay away. Another Ford board just deleted whatever I wrote...even though it was true...but one thing I never did when I distributed the evil Blue mix was go looking for problems with other brands to make my points seem more poignant
I had one...it was as unreliable as the Ford 6.0 diesel I traded in for it...It never went more than about 5000 miles without some kind of issue...they were mostly small irritations like a bad engine fan clutch or one injector...lot's of CEL's...until the excellently maintained trucks POS Bosch CP4.2 seriesHPFP ate itself...Ford denied warranty coverage and the bill was $10,000...
This is very typical Ford behavior. The shortcomings of the Bosch CP4 series fuel pump are well documented...as is Ford's despicable treatment of customers who have this expensive failure happen to them. Keep in mind, there are many Manufacturer;s who use the delicate at best Bosch CP4 series pump. All of them have had problems but they all warranty the failures without argument...only Ford sticks it to their customers. If you need proof...look no further than the various web boards for different brands...VW was forced by the NHTSA to warranty all of theirs when they balked a bit at fixing them...Porshe called the pump delicate...GM uses the same pump with a similar failure rate as Ford...yet you will not find one single warranty rejection of a GM DuraMax Diesel Bosch CP4.2 series HPFP failure...
You have no way of knowing that the Ford 6.7 you buy will be "trouble free as long as you do the maintenance". While the 6.7 Ford is likely a better engine than the 6.0 and maybe better than the 6.4, it has it's issues...and the repairs are very expensive if you are one of the unfortunate ones.
Ford is very stingy with warranty coverage. If you have a High Pressure Fuel Pump(HPFP)failure on this engine, the repair will exceed $10,000 and warranty coverage is highly unlikely...just google Ford 6.7 Ford HPFP problems...there are volumes written about the problem..."Blue KoolAid Rainsuit" on...
Rick didn't they do a upgrade or redesign on the CP-4 pumps?
They have very quietly made several small changes in the design and especially the coatings on the interior parts to try to minimize the low lubricity issue with US fuels. The biggest change came about when they moved CP4 series pump production to a new facility in Czechoslovakia.
While there are still fairly regular reports of Ford CP4 failures on the various web boards and the resulting warranty coverage denials and fights,I am still looking for the first verified customer complaint of a GM DuraMax CP4 failure and any warranty denials. We know they have has some failures because they admitted to the NHTSA that their failure rate was very similar to Fords...but warranty denials are non-existent...what is that old Latin saying...Caveat emptor
The designators for the POS Bosch CP4 series pumps are CP4.1 and CP4.2 which merely identify a one piston or two piston pump. The CP4.1 is one piston and is used on engines with a single bank of cylinders...like an inline four as used in the European import automobiles. The CP4.2 is use in V6 and V8 designs likje the Ford 6.7 and the 2011 and up GM DuraMaxs...only one of those manufacturers actually warrantee's the CP4 pumps and fuel systems...
The new Rams still use the tried and proven CP3 pump...
I just spent 5 months working in the DC area...all I can say is I am not ever going back...I looked ad nauseum for a nice place to stay that was not ridiculously priced. The best deal I found was at The Harpers Ferry KOA. It is a solid hour to town from there though...
Just waiting for Ricatic :B Then it's on
Lot's of links from Joedeisel if you need them.
Pretty truck though :W
I am here...not much more I can say about the 6.7 at this point...a quick Google search will provide plenty of ricatic musings on this engine...and the Company that will not stand behind their product...I will say this though...8 months and 15000 miles on the Chevy Duramax with no problems and no CEL's...never went more than 5000 miles on the Ford without these issues...
Thanks for the insight Ricatic; I think living there has given you more perspective than the vast majority of us, for whom it's easy to develop an "out of sight, out of mind" way of thinking when NOT confronted with empty buildings and ghost towns in our daily life.
I usually try to stay out of these type of discussions/arguments, but I shudder to think of what may have happened had the bailout not occurred.
Sometimes understanding the reasoning of certain things involves looking deep, well beyond the obvious, and for some that's not an easy thing to do.
A lot of society desperately craves a black & white life and struggles with the grey.
Thanks for the kind words...
I grew up here in SE Michigan in a construction family that specialized in commercial and industrial construction. It is no exaggeration when I say I have worked on many hundreds of construction projects for companies that were direct suppliers, manufacturers, engineering companies and tool and die manufacturers. The company was always busy because there was so much automotive related work being done in SE Michigan and buildings were needed to house these businesses.
The automotive downturn has drastically hurt this segment of the construction industry in Michigan. The number of closed machine shops, tool sales facilities,steel retailers, engineering firms and light manufactures that built parts for the industry is huge. Their empty buildings sit as a testament to the depth of the problem.
Even if their is a sort of recovery for the industries mentioned above, the construction industry will likely never recover. With so many, numbered in the several hundreds, empty buildings being sold at fire sale prices when a buyer does appear, the need for new light industrial construction will remain at very low levels...I hope I am wrong...but this is why for the last 8 years, I have had to travel the country to remain employed...
You know this political rant just pisses me off
Then don't read it.
2. Chrysler took a bail out like GM. Ford got govt loans. The entire industry was helped. If GM had gone through a lengthy reorg, the suppliers would be at risk from going out of business. This would have effected the entire industry (the Big 3 and all the imports).
Chrysler took a bailout, but it was significantly less unpaid money then GM. By my last count, Chrysler failed to settle $1.3 billion. GM is still on the hook for $21 billion.
Ford took loans, which is not a bailout that left taxpayers out on their butts. The loans were favorable to Ford, but also favorable to taxpayers, in that it is being paid back with interest.
Your theory that the entire industry would have been affected is just that... a THEORY. The people that believe that theory fail to believe that the other manufacturers would have picked up GM's market share, thus employing the same parts suppliers...
yes a THEORY- just as Gravity and Evolution are THEORIES. Luckily we never put the alternative to the test. It was an unacceptable risk. It was also the THEORY shared by most of the industry, including executives at Ford and the aforementioned automotive suppliers.
My concern wasn't GM's market share. It was a lengthy reorganization that would have caused cash flow & disruptions for those suppliers during a downward economic spiral. And since Ford executives supported the bailout, it doesn't appear that they believed there would've been market share to pick up. A Simply analogy: why don't you just jump off a roof to test the theory of gravity?
And I would just as soon piss you off rather than be silenced from the thread, thank you very much.
Just don't question anyone's patriotism and you're fine in my book. You can believe any stupid thing you want and even write it here as you've so demonstrated.
If one lives in Michigan, particularly SE Michigan, it is very easy to agree with most of what you say.
As a lifelong conservative, the bailout's of GM and Chrysler should have caused me to join the ranks of the non-informed who cried out to let them die...but I have spent most of my life working in the SE Michigan economy. Many conservatives that live here also had to swallow some pride and support the bailouts.
Why, the naysayers ask...if they had any idea of how badly the automotive downturn, before the bailouts, has damaged the Michigan economy, they would understand why the bailouts had to happen.
I have spent a large part of my working life in the construction industry that built the infrastructure that supported the huge third party manufacturer's that for years were the backbone of the automotive industry development. Entire communities have grown up and spread across SE Michigan over the last 50 years as these auto related companies increased in numbers and in size. Communities like Sterling Heights, Troy, Roseville, Fraser and many others grew up almost overnight. Engineering, manufacturing and machine shops filled these neighborhoods with new industrial development and good paying jobs. Light industrial subdivisions popped up everywhere...with jobs to do and people to do them.
These days are gone...likely forever. All one has to do is take a drive through the industrial subdivisions of these fine communities and they will see why. Blocks and blocks of light industrial and light manufacturing buildings, once teeming with activity and employment are now empty...and for sale. Many are now bank owned. The domestic auto industry had caught a cold...and in Michigan, it became pneumonia.
If GM and Chrysler would not have been helped, the resulting economic fallout in Michigan would have been disastrous. The remaining businesses would have had virtually no chance of hanging on until the market, according to those who would have let them die, would find equilibrium with only Ford left in business. Hundreds of thousands of employed workers would have been terminated...with uncertain futures at best. How would this have benefited the country...or even Ford. The buying power of the American consumer would have been severely compromised.
One also only has to look at SE Michigan's recovery, or lack thereof, to see that even with the bailout's, the recovery has been at a snails pace. I do see some signs of new construction in SE Michigan. There is some recovery in progress...but without the bailouts...the last working person in Michigan would have needed to turn off the lights as he also left his job...JMO...YMMV...Patriotism has nothing to do with it...