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 > Rancho shocks another ?

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JRJR

Where there's fish

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Posted: 07/12/12 07:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Anyone know the difference between Rancho RS9000 shocks and RS9000XL shocks?
Thanks
John

jimh425

Western WA

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Posted: 07/12/12 08:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think the xls are the never version of the RS9000.


'06 F350 Lariat Supercab SRW, 6.0 PSD 4x4 Long Bed, Intake Elbow, Walker Big Truck Muffler. '06 Host Rainer 950 Double Slide, Fastguns. Firestone Air Bags, Rancho 9000s, Vision 19.5s with Hankook DH-01 245s, Energy Suspension bump stops.


BigToe

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Posted: 07/13/12 12:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RS9000 used cellular foam.
RS9000XLs uses nitrogen gas.

It is highly debatable which is better.

BigToe

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Posted: 07/13/12 12:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well, since there are no 450/550 axle discussions this week, I might as well expound upon my brief answer above and blather about another chassis components of interest: shock absorbers, and specifically, the difference between the Rancho 9000 and the 9000xl.

Note that there is also a Rancho 9000x that was sold for a five year period of time inbetween the original RS9000, introduced almost a quarter century ago and discontinued in the summer of 2002, and the current RS9000xl, first announced five years ago at the beginning of 2007.

The 9000x introduced more incrementation in the user adjustability of the 9000 shocks. Whereas the 9000 had 5 positions, the 9000x had 9 positions. Notice that I said more increments, not more range. The amplitude of range in adjustability is about the same. The 9000x merely increased the number of indents on the adjuster dial.

Some natural questions come up...

1. Who needs more incremental indentations? Isn't 5 enough?

Apparantly no. Unlike the user reports of "pro comp" brand shocks, the adjustments to the Rancho 9000 series are so perceptible that one could feel when 3, for example, was too soft but 4 was too hard, and there was a desire for a goldilocks compromise in between.

2. Why not just set the 5 position dial inbetween 3 and 4?

Because the detents are critical for the adjustment setting to stay in position. The adjustment knob is like a worm gear acting on a spring. The spring supplies a constant opposing force, so if the knob is inbetween detents, the spring will be able to push against the worm gear until it stops in the next detent. So an inbetween adjustment will eventually revert foward or backward to a resting place (a detent) that the spring is not powerful enough to overcome.

3. If the in cab remote adjuster is used, isn't the adjustablity infinite within the range?

Yes. With any version of the 9000, 9000x, or 9000xl shock, the in cab remote adjuster removes the knob altogether, and uses an air pressure system to supply constant pressure against the spring. The variation in pressure is attenuable in much greater variation than the 5 position or 9 position detents. But, that pressure must be constantly maintained. The numerous air lines, fittings, and the compressor itself all add to the complexity under the rig, creating more exposure to maintenance and things gone wrong. So there was value in increasing the number of detents from 5 in the 9000 to 9 in the 9000x and 9000xl.

The 9000x also introduced a change in Rancho's "triple" tube design. Keep in mind, all three iterations of the 9000, the 9000x, and the 9000xl use triple tubes, as follows:

- Tube 1 = External reservoir tube that stores the reserve of oil and the cellular foam sleeve in the 9000 and 9000x (the 9000xl is gas charged)

- Tube 2 = Intermediate down flow path tube that routes the working oil in a mono directional path downward toward the adjustable valve, regardless of whether the piston is acting up or down in jounce or rebound directions. This is the unique feature of all 3 models of Rancho 9000 shocks over typical "twin tube" shock absorber designs

- Tube 3 = Internal pressure tube where the oil is worked and acted upon by the piston

The change in the triple tube design released in 2002, particularly in the intermediate flow path, necessitated a reduction in the piston diameter. Did you ever notice that Rancho stopped advertising the piston diameter after this change? Ranch currently makes a huge deal about advertising the BODY diameter of the new 9000XL, which does make for a larger reservoir of oil. However, Rancho no longer makes any mention whatsoever of the piston diameter, which is actually smaller in the new version of the 9000 than it used to be in the earliest version.

I guess it doesn't help to sell the new model shocks when you go from a former 1 3/8" diameter piston down to a 1 1/4" diameter piston (32 mm, to be precise).

However, to be fair to Rancho, the reduction in piston diamter is somewhat immaterial due to the manner in which fluid flows through the absorber, as well as the increase in diameter of the rod that moves the piston, which adds to the total displacement of fluid from the pressure cylinder.

As an illustrative example, suppose you had two empty 5 gallon painter's buckets, and one bathtub full of water. Take one 5 gallon bucket, cut the bottom off, and throw the rest of the bucket away (I mean recycle of course). To this freshly cut bottom affix a nice D shaped handle so that you can grasp the disc, like a small Viking shield.

Leave the second bucket as it is, but bring it as well as your homemade viking shield to the bathtub full of water. First grasp the D handle to the shield (that has the cut off bottom to the 5 gallon bucket) and push it straight down into the bathtub of water. Some water will be displaced and spill out over the sides until the water in the tub subsumes the flat disc and surrounds your relatively skinnier arm as you press your shield to the bottom of the tub.

Remove the shield, refill the tub, and grab your bucket. Now press the completely in tact 5 gallon bucket into the bathtub. Notice how much more water spills out over the side of the tub, because the barrel circumference of the 5 gallon bucket is so much greater than your arm, so the total volume of displaced fluid is greater.

Same with the newest Rancho 9000xl shocks. Although the piston diamter is 1/4" smaller, the ROD diamter (your arm vs the sides of the bucket) is somewhat greater for some models of 9000xl, up to 18mm in diamter, versus the 16mm diameter of the 9000x, and the 5/8" diameter of the 9000.

There are several other features in the original Rancho 9000 series shocks that have changed in the current Rancho 9000xl version:

The original 9000, and the successor 9000x, had Cellular Foam Sleeves in the outer tube. This foam expanded when the shock oil heated up from being worked. The expansion of the foam took up volume that applied pressure to the heated oil that would otherwise cavitate.

The new 9000xl uses nitrogen gas pre charge for this function.

And, this is the very spring board of much debate... between cell foam and gas charged shocks. I'm surprised no one has chimed in.

Come on now, don't let me keep the fire warm here all by myself!

17oaks

17 Oaks Ranch

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Posted: 07/13/12 01:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BigToe wrote:

Well, since there are no 450/550 axle discussions this week, I might as well expound upon my brief answer above and blather about another chassis components of interest: shock absorbers, and specifically, the difference between the Rancho 9000 and the 9000xl.

Note that there is also a Rancho 9000x that was sold for a five year period of time inbetween the original RS9000, introduced almost a quarter century ago and discontinued in the summer of 2002, and the current RS9000xl, first announced five years ago at the beginning of 2007.

The 9000x introduced more incrementation in the user adjustability of the 9000 shocks. Whereas the 9000 had 5 positions, the 9000x had 9 positions. Notice that I said more increments, not more range. The amplitude of range in adjustability is about the same. The 9000x merely increased the number of indents on the adjuster dial.

Some natural questions come up...

1. Who needs more incremental indentations? Isn't 5 enough?

Apparantly no. Unlike the user reports of "pro comp" brand shocks, the adjustments to the Rancho 9000 series are so perceptible that one could feel when 3, for example, was too soft but 4 was too hard, and there was a desire for a goldilocks compromise in between.

2. Why not just set the 5 position dial inbetween 3 and 4?

Because the detents are critical for the adjustment setting to stay in position. The adjustment knob is like a worm gear acting on a spring. The spring supplies a constant opposing force, so if the knob is inbetween detents, the spring will be able to push against the worm gear until it stops in the next detent. So an inbetween adjustment will eventually revert foward or backward to a resting place (a detent) that the spring is not powerful enough to overcome.

3. If the in cab remote adjuster is used, isn't the adjustablity infinite within the range?

Yes. With any version of the 9000, 9000x, or 9000xl shock, the in cab remote adjuster removes the knob altogether, and uses an air pressure system to supply constant pressure against the spring. The variation in pressure is attenuable in much greater variation than the 5 position or 9 position detents. But, that pressure must be constantly maintained. The numerous air lines, fittings, and the compressor itself all add to the complexity under the rig, creating more exposure to maintenance and things gone wrong. So there was value in increasing the number of detents from 5 in the 9000 to 9 in the 9000x and 9000xl.

The 9000x also introduced a change in Rancho's "triple" tube design. Keep in mind, all three iterations of the 9000, the 9000x, and the 9000xl use triple tubes, as follows:

- Tube 1 = External reservoir tube that stores the reserve of oil and the cellular foam sleeve in the 9000 and 9000x (the 9000xl is gas charged)

- Tube 2 = Intermediate down flow path tube that routes the working oil in a mono directional path downward toward the adjustable valve, regardless of whether the piston is acting up or down in jounce or rebound directions. This is the unique feature of all 3 models of Rancho 9000 shocks over typical "twin tube" shock absorber designs

- Tube 3 = Internal pressure tube where the oil is worked and acted upon by the piston

The change in the triple tube design released in 2002, particularly in the intermediate flow path, necessitated a reduction in the piston diameter. Did you ever notice that Rancho stopped advertising the piston diameter after this change? Ranch currently makes a huge deal about advertising the BODY diameter of the new 9000XL, which does make for a larger reservoir of oil. However, Rancho no longer makes any mention whatsoever of the piston diameter, which is actually smaller in the new version of the 9000 than it used to be in the earliest version.

I guess it doesn't help to sell the new model shocks when you go from a former 1 3/8" diameter piston down to a 1 1/4" diameter piston (32 mm, to be precise).

However, to be fair to Rancho, the reduction in piston diamter is somewhat immaterial due to the manner in which fluid flows through the absorber, as well as the increase in diameter of the rod that moves the piston, which adds to the total displacement of fluid from the pressure cylinder.

As an illustrative example, suppose you had two empty 5 gallon painter's buckets, and one bathtub full of water. Take one 5 gallon bucket, cut the bottom off, and throw the rest of the bucket away (I mean recycle of course). To this freshly cut bottom affix a nice D shaped handle so that you can grasp the disc, like a small Viking shield.

Leave the second bucket as it is, but bring it as well as your homemade viking shield to the bathtub full of water. First grasp the D handle to the shield (that has the cut off bottom to the 5 gallon bucket) and push it straight down into the bathtub of water. Some water will be displaced and spill out over the sides until the water in the tub subsumes the flat disc and surrounds your relatively skinnier arm as you press your shield to the bottom of the tub.

Remove the shield, refill the tub, and grab your bucket. Now press the completely in tact 5 gallon bucket into the bathtub. Notice how much more water spills out over the side of the tub, because the barrel circumference of the 5 gallon bucket is so much greater than your arm, so the total volume of displaced fluid is greater.

Same with the newest Rancho 9000xl shocks. Although the piston diamter is 1/4" smaller, the ROD diamter (your arm vs the sides of the bucket) is somewhat greater for some models of 9000xl, up to 18mm in diamter, versus the 16mm diameter of the 9000x, and the 5/8" diameter of the 9000.

There are several other features in the original Rancho 9000 series shocks that have changed in the current Rancho 9000xl version:

The original 9000, and the successor 9000x, had Cellular Foam Sleeves in the outer tube. This foam expanded when the shock oil heated up from being worked. The expansion of the foam took up volume that applied pressure to the heated oil that would otherwise cavitate.

The new 9000xl uses nitrogen gas pre charge for this function.

And, this is the very spring board of much debate... between cell foam and gas charged shocks. I'm surprised no one has chimed in.

Come on now, don't let me keep the fire warm here all by myself!

Ok Toe I will chime in...N gas is superior to cell foam any day, any time, hands down or belly up. In fact anyone that would have a shock with cell foam would eat a chit sandwich...

Anyhow that said, I am a strong proponent of Rancho and Rancho adjustable (9000's). I have run them on every rig I have owned since they were available and love the adjustability of them. In fact they saved my butt once: In short my torsion anti-dive bar on my rig broke on the drivers front side. I was in Moab Utah and getting ready to drive home to Scottsdale Az. Soon as I hit the highway my rig was to dangerous to to drive more than about 20 mph...I decided to turn my Rancho 9000 XL shocks on the front up to the firmest setting, 9. That did it and I am able to drive home at decent highway speeds in a day rather than several days.


On another note I just posted on here a writeup and pics of installing the Rancho's on my F 350. As an update the following are some suggested starting points for dialing in your 9000's:

F 350 Dually:

3 +/- 1 for everyday driving and light loads in the bed.

5 +/- 1 pulling a trailer 6 +/- 1

TC (AF 1150) loaded about 4800 lbs or less 8 or 9

I know your truck, your spring rates, loading, type of roads traveled etc all come into play. Just trying to give some starting points based upon historical and current use for my travel.


Don
17 Oaks Ranch, Texas
US Army (RET)
'11 F350 4x4, CC, LWB, DRW, Lariat
AF 1150, solar, satellite
Vietnam Combat Veteran


Raften

Northern Calfornia

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Posted: 07/13/12 04:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Considering Rancho does not want to replace my 11 year old shock (lifetime warrenty even though it clearly is broken, I don't have too high of an opinion of Rancho.

Reddog1

El Dorado, CA

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Posted: 07/13/12 04:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am curious Raften, do you have the original receipt? Did they give a reason for not replacing the shock?

Wayne

JRJR

Where there's fish

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Posted: 07/13/12 06:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Wow that was an education!!
Big Toe
In other words if I ordered a set of Rancho 9000's they should be the XL version?
I orderd a set but did not specify the XL version.
Thanks for all of the info.

John

SoCalDesertRider

SanDiego, CA, USA

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Posted: 07/13/12 06:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I had the 9-position adjustable Rancho 9000x on the rear axle of my F350SRW. I put them on around 2003. Replaced them with Bilsteins in 2009. They were ok shocks. The adjustable feature worked fine. I prefer the Bilsteins though. No need to adjust anything and they work fine both unloaded and heavily loaded. I've had Bilsteins on the front axle of that truck since 2003. I put Bilsteins on both axles of my Ranger truck and they work great on that truck too.


05E350 6.0PSD
97F350DRW 7.3PSD 4x4 4.10 11' flatbed
98Ranger
69Bronco ATC250R CR500
20' BigTex flatbed carhauler
Callen Camper

92F350 CrewCab 4x4 351/C6
B&W TurnoverBall, Curt Magnum V
HD Springs Bilsteins,
285/75-16E BFG AT on 16x8 Stocktons
4.56's & LockRite rear

17oaks

17 Oaks Ranch

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Posted: 07/13/12 07:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRJR wrote:

Wow that was an education!!
Big Toe
In other words if I ordered a set of Rancho 9000's they should be the XL version?
I orderd a set but did not specify the XL version.
Thanks for all of the info.

John

Those have all been long gone, the only one avail is the XL.

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