RE: Top tier gasoline.
I guess some of you are not reading the information on the link I provided. I stated that storing gas for long periods of time was one of the many benefits. There are many other benefits to buying tier one and long term storage is ne of the least important reasons to buy tier one. I suggest that it may be beneficial to read about all the benefits of tier one before making a decision about it's benefits. One thing I had wanted to accomplish was to dispel the myth that all gasoline is the same but I guess that will not be possible to do when people choose not to read the information that was provided to support my statement
Well Boo hoo to you. The difference is OCTANE rating and most people do not need to read about it to understand! And just what is "long term"?
I don't understand why you are getting angry with me over a simple discussion about whether all gasoline is the same.
Gasoline formulation is a lot more complicated that octane ratings. Increasing octane allows for higher compression without causing the engine to knock. But if you intend on keeping your vehicle for a long time it would be good to have additives that will protect the valves. Before lead was taken out of gas as an octane enhancer the lead also helped to protect the valves, I does not matter what you choose to believe or buy, I was providing info for people that are concerned about gasoline additives that will help prolong an engines life. If you don't like what I have to say I am fine with that but others have expressed their appreciation for sharing the information I provided.
As far as your comment about long term goes you can either read about it or ignore it but please do not dismiss it as inconsequential. The people that use gasoline powered engines to haul heavy loads work their engines pretty hard and in some cases additives can save the cost of an engine rebuilt or replacement.
What you are really providing with that link is cleverly disguised marketing.
Not knowing about or understanding Top Tier gas does not mean that those who do understand it are simply "marketing it". It is real, it is different, and even premium manufacturers recommend it even if they were not one of the original who brought it about.
Both my Mercedes have direct injection and the owners manuals recommend Top Tier. One can either believe they know what they are talking about or cross the street and save five cents a gallon from the off-brand store. That will save you about eighty cents a tank and probably not change too many people's lifestyles.
RE: Really -- $1,500 for PDI ! Seriously???
All you expert negotiators amuse me. The salesman is going to get the best of you no matter how clever you think you are. If you want the RV and you show any enthusiasm for it then you are toast. Best deal is to do your research in advance and let them know what you are willing to pay, if they don't accept then you dust off your boots and head on down the road to an honest dealer.
Does that mean that having a perceived lower price is the definition of an "Honest" dealer?
RE: Not Covered
FYI Check for hidden recalls. We had a pickup years ago that - too late - we discovered had a hidden recall. Basically they didn't notify US at all and we basically just accepted that the paint peeled off in sheets in places (it was out of warranty by then). We discovered later that if we had shown up at a dealership and agitated loudly enough they would have repaired it (90's Chevy).
There is no such thing as a "hidden re-call". There are TSB's, extended warranties, and policy adjustments that are not publicized. Re-calls require owner notification and are regulated by Government authorities.
RE: Really -- $1,500 for PDI ! Seriously???
I just bought a 2013 Jeep Wrangler, I know it is not a RV. Went to three Jeep dealers in my area, I just asked them each what is the final drive out of the lot number. Anything else they could call it what they wanted and charge what they wanted. I just wanted their best number. Boy there was a big difference in out the lot number.
I'll tell you my favorite trick is go back and forth for several hours until you get the best price you think you're going to get. Then once you get there tell them you'll have to think about it overnight and come back the next day. (They hate that and will do everything to keep you in the showroom) Then once you leave you head to the next town to another dealer and lie to them about the price from dealer number 1. For example lets say you got them down to $20k. You go to the next dealer and tell them dealer number 1 is going to sell you the Jeep for $18k and if they can beet the price you'll buy it from them. If they can't do any better, then you know you got the first guy down to their best price. But I can tell you two out of the last three times I did this, the second dealer matched the price I had made up. An no I don't feel guilty at all about lying to a salesman.
Very innovative! I would bet that those car salesmen could not ever imagine that a buyer was a liar!
Here is another tip. Without money on the table and a signed buyers order, you will never know what the lowest price is. But then again, that would require a commitment.
RE: Lichtsinn RV, No Discount!
People are constantly complaining about the need to negotiate the purchase price and going through that process. Seems here is one dealer who solved that complaint.
RE: Still Waiting for Certificate of Origin
I would be surprised if the CW stores have the CO's held by the floor plan lenders. A number of smaller dealerships do have that situation but I never had a franchised new car dealership where they were held. Usually it shows a lack of capitalization or poor financials.
What is also surprising is what seems to be the struggles CW has in the process of problem resolution. If you are going to solicit airing your "dirty laundry" on a public forum, the response team, it would seem, needs to act in a decisive and immediate manner. Complaining about "only" having 24 hours to cure what is a relatively simple problem should not be a part of the equation. How was the unit paid for and where is the CO takes one phone call to the selling store. From there, resolution is not rocket science work if you want to make a positive impression.
RE: Car Max Experience
Car Max has good used vehicles and a good sales reps. Good no pressure sales. BUT, their profit margin for each vehicle they buy at auction is $5000-$7000 and they will not negotiate. You have to decide for yourself if all their hype is worth that much, especially since you'll probably be paying 7%-12% interest on that profit over the next 3-5 years. Early last year I was looking at a 2005 Honda CRV. They wanted $19,000 (CA prices) which is $5000 above asking prices at other car lots. I found a 2002 CRV in better shape, with every add-on imaginable, thru a private party for $8000 (CA dollars).
I think you are confusing "mark up" with "profit." As a general rule when you go by an item at a store the average mark up is about 100% of what they paid for it. If they are selling it for $20 then they probably paid $10. That extra $10 is not profit. The "profit" on a $20 item (on average) is about 5% usually lower. So that $10 mark up only equaled $1 in profit.
I think he was referring to gross profit. Gross profit is a fact while "profit" is a variable dependent on a multitude of factors and subject to interpretation.
RE: Acceptable Delivery Miles
The question I would have is what is the legal definition of new and or used? Their must be some threshold of how many miles can be on a vehicle before it is considered used. I believe with cars it is 2500 miles, though I realize cars are transported by trailer. When I bought my Georgetown from RV Net they told me they have trailers to move class A's from their four different stores.
In most states it is simply whether or not it has been titled. Without a mileage stipulation. You can have a 1 mile used vehicle and also have a legally new vehicle with 3,000 miles.
RE: Car Max Experience
Car Max has good used vehicles and a good sales reps. Good no pressure sales. BUT, their profit margin for each vehicle they buy at auction is $5000-$7000 and they will not negotiate. You have to decide for yourself if all their hype is worth that much, especially since you'll probably be paying 7%-12% interest on that profit over the next 3-5 years. Early last year I was looking at a 2005 Honda CRV. They wanted $19,000 (CA prices) which is $5000 above asking prices at other car lots. I found a 2002 CRV in better shape, with every add-on imaginable, thru a private party for $8000 (CA dollars).
CarMax is a public company and as a result the operating numbers are a matter of public record. Their average gross profit per unit generally runs in the $2100-$2200 range. This is gross profit before expenses such as commissions, occupancy, salaries, utilities,etc.
This number is about 150% of the NADA reported overall new car dealer gross profits on used vehicles or roughly $500-$600 per unit. They also average around $800 per unit on those vehicles they wholesale which is extremely high by industry standards. This would indicate lower trade values and lower purchase values for the vehicles they buy from the general public.
The gross profit on vehicles is nowhere near the numbers the public likes to think. Statistically speaking, this is why when people want to tell you they saved $10,000 on the last vehicle they bought from one dealer to another, they really don't know what they are talking about. Dealers don't make that kind of money to start with on each unit with rare exception.
RE: How Long Should I have to wait for a title??
It would not be without precedence that an owner financed a unit personally. I have done it. If you are looking at a deal with a substantial profit, a large down-payment, a high interest rate, and a buyer you feel confident you can find it can be a good investment.
As long as the OP has possession of the RV and has the paper trail proving the payments made, there is little chance he will not get the title eventually. It is a little tacky for it to take this long to finalize the payoff but there could well be complications we are not aware of.
RE: Brand new - "AS IS" ??
The fact that you are disturbed by this illustrates the very reason they have people sign the disclosure. Nothing new here that has not always been true.
RE: Vin and Serial number versus title
HR said it was a 2005 manufactured in July 2005. It was originally sold in Florida, January 2006
You would have to question that. Monaco for years made their model year transition in the April-May time frame. I bought a new one in June of 2003 that was a 2004 model. From experience, many have found what the clerks at the manufacturer may have to say is not always accurate. Have you contacted the Florida DMV?
RE: Vin and Serial number versus title
When a vehicle is built, the manufacturer issues a MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin)which is the controlling document for the vehicle. The MSO will contain the serial number and the year model. The manufacturer can designate any unit the next model year if it is built after January 1. They could call a unit built in January of 2005 a 2006.
On the other hand, the chassis manufacturer can designate the year model of the chassis and because of mandatory changes decreed by the government, may well call a chassis a 2004 right up to December 31, 2004. This has been particularly common with some of the mandated diesel engine changes in the last few years. It would be easy for a chassis to be produced late December 2004 and then shipped to a motor home manufacturer in January. The motor home manufactured could then produce the motor home in March or April based on 2006 specs and designate it a 2006 model year.
When the dealer sells the unit retail for the first time, they supply the MSO to the DMV of the state it is to be titled in. The DMV then simply designates the model year the same as appearing on the MSO. If you go back to the DMV that titled it originally, they should be able to verify they titled it correctly the first time.
From the view of the dealer who sold it to you, they simply purchased the motor home or traded it in and received a title reading 2006 with matching serial numbers. They cannot title it any other way when they sell it and would have no reason to suspect it to be the wrong year.
Should you go back and trace the title lineage and find a mistake in the chain, you will set off an entire series of problems. Each person who has ever held ownership since the mistake may or may not have been made will have liability. It would be an interesting discussion as to what the value difference would be today. On a used seven or eight year old motor home, mileage and condition are far more important than model year to determine value.
You can pretty well bet the dealer who sold it to you did not make the mistake, if in fact one was even made. Most likely he is a victim as well if there is a mistake. Unless you know there was a substantial difference between a 2005 and a 2006 that materially would effect value or usability, you are financially ahead to leave it alone.
RE: Progressive RV Insurance Scam
There is a limit on the policy declaration page; 5k. I find that to mean Progressive will pay to replace items up to the policy limits. Did I think they would pay all 5k toward the Rolex on my wrist, no that is scheduled on my homeowners because it is of high value and an unusual item. However, the 500 limit is applied to each and every item on this policy. This cap is not explicitly disclosed on the declaration page and that is the part I find most offensive and a scam. This "Replacement Cost Personal Items" coverage is useless and "Flo's" right to their bottom line. When I was in b-school (a term I imagine means noting to the demo on this forum), top 10 by the way, we did several cases on this company. Progressive is a marketing company selling insurance.
Should I feel cheated, I can always have my day in court, like our founding fathers intended. Wrong again, that right is gone too, we consumers have no access to the court system anymore. This, like most every contract you sign these days, from the phone in your hand, to the car you buy, your bank, gym, carpet cleaner, to sweet Flo from Progressive, who would never cheat anyone, all have "binding arbitration" where the proceedings are closed door and the odds are stacked against the consumer. (The arbitrator wants repeat business right?)
Bottom line here, this is not the coverage they sold me, Progressive did disclose it to me deep in 50 pages of fine print. I feel cheated and I haven't even suffered a loss. At least I know now, should I suffer a loss, I am not Pollyanish enough to believe that my Honda Generator, or iPad, or that suit in the closet, is actually going to be replaced by Progressive with new like my declaration page states; won't happen, not with this policy anyway.
This begs more questions; is the TV that is permanently installed in the rig a personal item? My attorney is 500/hour, I imagine it would take him two hours to read the disclosures, cross reference and answer my question.
Be aware and informed.
Gee, I didn't go to "b-school" and didn't finish in the top ten. But, I would have thought business school would have taught one how to read an insurance policy and not to just be a "scam" victim. I majored in Theology and learned those things.
RE: Progressive RV Insurance Scam
Scam! Really!
Full replacement coverage for personal items with any insurance company is going to have limitations whether it is your RV coverage or your Home Owners policy. If you think not, you really need to look it up.
Full replacement simply means they will pay present value, not depreciated value, on covered items up to policy limitations. If you want full coverage for all your personal items, you will need to purchase a Personal Articles Policy. That policy will schedule those items covered, will normally require the items to be currently appraised, and most often require a photo of the item.
Common sense should tell you that the insurance company is not going to pay an unlimited amount on anything you can carry for a policy charge of $20-$50 a year. As one person said, the most expensive item they carry is $150. Another person could easily have $50,000 in electronic equipment. Do you think the policy price should be the same?
It is not a scam. It is a lack of understanding what you bought. Check your home owner's policy and you will find it is also limited. Most likely for less than that $2,000 computer.
RE: My CampingWorld Experience So Far....
Buying any type of RV is different than buying a car or truck. Dealers are not part of a national network that is held accountable by anyone and RV's are rolling houses on wheels that can have all sorts of issues and situations with roofing, plumbing, appliances, flooring, wheels, etc., you get the picture. CW probably does a fairly good job of selling RV accessories but has anyone ever had a positive RV buying and/or service experience with CW? I have never heard of even one! Caveat Emptor.
This illustrates one of the problems with this format. They sold 40,000 last year and we have seen maybe 50-100 people post claiming a bad experience. The rest of the buyers either had a satisfactory experience or have not taken the time to find this Forum and voice displeasure. Factually, there has been more than one who have expressed a good experience buying at CW on the Forum but that certainly pales in comparison to the more sensational complaints.
RE: Are you a sales or storage organization.
About Findley...They fired the service manager, service writer and several of the mechanics. The Parts man has double duty of parts and answering the phone.
Jallen4: I was there (in person) less than two weeks ago.
A very small effort (research the subject) will show the high priced Tours and Ellipse from 2012 still on the lot at CW's. Price reduced of course.
In the Nevada Revised Statutes (NRS) Shills must announce their presence.
Misguided reports and one reputed incident, wow !! Vicky Vicious is in the house
Kerry
I think we can both agree that firing some of the personnel is far different than closing the entire Dealership. There appears to be no evidence to any closing and it is somewhat irresponsible to report that as being a fact on a public forum if it is not.
My point also is that calling CW a "museum" is a bit of hyperbole when they in fact are the industry sales leader in several categories. I am not a "shill" for anyone and certainly not "vicious". Unless, pointing out facts would be interpreted that way.
RE: Are you a sales or storage organization.
Somebody in this thread is confused. Camping World RV Sales reported 1.48 Billion in sales revenue in 2012. They sold almost 40,000 units and were the number one retailer of towables for 2012.
Findlay RV in Las Vegas is owned by Findlay Automotive, a decades old company that is one of the largest privately owned chains in the country. Their website is current, the phones work, and they are not reporting they are closed. Someone needs to tell them.
Neither of these seem to fit the model of "RV Museum" described by the misguided reports in this thread. It is amazing what one reputed incident can bring out in the minds of some!
RE: GMs new secret weapon......LOL
Why did they wait so long?
:h not sure what you mean by this. Has GM had issues with previous new product launches? I think why they have done this is due to the fact their (every auto manufacture) vendors are lite in the engineer area maybe.
Don
To try to come up to Ford's truck standard. To try to be more like Ford. Their trucks have remained virtually unchanged for the last several years, While Ford has marched steadily forward. The only place GM is expanding in, Is China. They have lost 70,000 jobs in the US since the bailout. They are growing in China. We in effect paid them to move jobs to China.
That would really be a mis-representation of facts. GM is down 76,000 jobs in the U.S. dating back to 2005. Since the bailout, they have actually added 23,000+ jobs and invested around 11 billion in North America. More than has been invested in China.
GM would be remiss if they were not investing heavily in China. The Chinese new vehicle market is now substantially larger than the U.S. market and GM is now selling more cars there than in the U.S. The projections are for the China market to be double the annual U.S. market volume by 2020.
It would be erroneous to characterize GM sending jobs to China at the expense of U.S. jobs. It is an international market and what is happening is no different than Toyota building cars in the U.S. At least in this case, the profits are flowing back to the U.S. rather than going the other way.
that is not the way it was reported Friday. Accoring to what I saw friday. GM has shed 70,000 since the bailout, and is in fact only growing in China. And that is due to the Luxury car market growing in China. Not my ststs. But CNBC's
CNBC would have been wrong Friday, if that is what they actually said. It is indusputable that GM has added jobs since the level of employment when the bankruptcy was announced. Just simply look it up.
The only way it can be construed that GM has lost jobs would be to count the loss of approximately 65,000 jobs at dealerships who were cancelled. A stretch since they never worked for GM to start with.
RE: GMs new secret weapon......LOL
JALLEN4 it is no surprise since most of our jobs have been sent over there. The Chinese market rose to 13.6 million total units (cars, buses and trucks) compared to 10.4 million here in the States. Again thanks to Corporate America's greed and their pursuit too put as much money in their grubby little (large really) pockets as they can.
Don
The number of sales in 2012 were 19.3 million in China and 14.5 million in U.S. China has an estimated 1,344,130,000 population while the U.S. has 311,591,917.
There is little question why China would sell more units now and many more units in the future since they have a billion more people!
Since China GM sends no cars to the U.S. at the present time, it makes it rather difficult to argue our automotive production jobs were sent to China.
