Hello, my name is Wes
...and I'm guilty of hijacking another thread on whether multi-voltage built-in 120v/12v powered appliances would be a Brilliant idea?.
Since the 12v idea had been fairly hashed out, I suggested that, eventually, automotive main voltages may be much different than 12v because of emerging hybrid technology. So I thought it might be OK to move any futher discussion here for geek folks that embrace change and want to join me in speculating on new technologies. Or maybe it's just not appropriate anywhere on this forum, I don't know.
It's true that it isn't fair to intrude on a thread for folks that choose to enjoy just the simpler traditional side of RVing.
For TV hybrid info up to this point, I diverted the other thread starting here.
My sincere apologies to CPA and his other thread.
Wes
...
* This post was
edited 12/09/08 10:36am by Wes Tausend *
- 2000 Excursion V-10 - 1995 Coachmen Catalina 280RK, 5091# tare
- Hensley Arrow pending - McKesh mirrors - Champion 4000w/3500w gen
- 1994 Mazda B4000 1/2 ton, 4.0L V6, 3.73, 125"wb
- Linda, Wes and Quincy the Standard Brown Poodle
...
A PC has many voltages coming out of the power supply, from a 120V AC source. Vehicles will also.
Vehicles will continue to have 12V DC. You make the argument that vehicles went from 6V to 12V. That argument isn't relevant today. There are far too many accessories for vehicles that run at 12V (how many 6V accessories had to be thrown away when moving to 12V? None.). The 12V automotive socket will be available for at least 30 years. The only way that 12V could possibly be removed is if 120V AC PSW power was available. Then, everyone would run out and buy one of these:
I don't think the point of his discussion is that 12v will become obsolete, but there may be a new standard arise from advances in technology. Just like the 6v - 12v advance.
Solar & hybrid electric vehicles will operate at higher voltages, so it stands to reason that some new devices will be developed that will be more easily compatible with those vehicles. Of course it will be easy to convert the new voltages to what we have as standards today, so nothing will become 100% obsolete.
I would expect the first carry-over to impact rv's would be improved battery technology. I understand it's unlikely to be lithium due to the amount of lithium available in the world, so it will be interesting to see what the new generation of whiz kids come up with!
I bet we'll see more and more lower end rv's with dc to ac inverters built in. Although it's not new technology, the prices have become more reasonable making it a likely marketing boost for lower end stuff that traditionaly did not include one.
TMBLSN wrote: A PC has many voltages coming out of the power supply, from a 120V AC source. Vehicles will also.
Vehicles will continue to have 12V DC. You make the argument that vehicles went from 6V to 12V. That argument isn't relevant today. There are far too many accessories for vehicles that run at 12V (how many 6V accessories had to be thrown away when moving to 12V? None.). The 12V automotive socket will be available for at least 30 years. The only way that 12V could possibly be removed is if 120V AC PSW power was available. Then, everyone would run out and buy one of these:
Lee,
I think you are right about the eventual desirability of 120vac available in vehicles. It seems that somewhere in the Prius Chat Forum, I've seen this as a suggested (or future) option. A lot of new generation hybrids will, and are, follow(ing) the 2nd generation double motor-generator (MG1, MG2) set-up of Toyota. The 120vac standard is irrevocably established in land infrastructure and the most common voltage in the US.
What I meant by suggesting the 6v-12v change was relevent is not that 12v wouldn't continue for some time, but the main automotive electrical system can benefit from much smaller wire with higher voltages that will be inherently be available. Lighting and safety items (bags, brake stability, door locks, windows, seats) can be done with higher voltages and lower amperages, yet provide the same power (wattage) over smaller, lighter wiring. I think I read once that there is over a mile of wire in modern autos, some of it rather large gauge due to the low voltage.
The 220/110 to 12v adapter you've pictured is one of the most compact I've ever seen.
For a bit if trivia, we have 74VDC outlets in our locomotives and some 110v power supplies (cell phone, laptop) will operate directly from them. The power supplies that do work on DC are a compact switching type which has become more common than the old brick transformer design. There are even high quality inverters, designed expressly for these locomotives, to provide PSW 110vac. The 74vdc is normally used for headlights, and other accessories, and is provided by a small auxiliary winding in the main generator. Note - I don't willingly allow the use of these inverters-phones-laptops in my cab since the last cell phone texting debacle was blamed for a head-on rail collision. FRA is pretty touchy about it now.
CamperTech wrote: I don't think the point of his discussion is that 12v will become obsolete, but there may be a new standard arise from advances in technology. Just like the 6v - 12v advance.
Solar & hybrid electric vehicles will operate at higher voltages, so it stands to reason that some new devices will be developed that will be more easily compatible with those vehicles. Of course it will be easy to convert the new voltages to what we have as standards today, so nothing will become 100% obsolete.
I would expect the first carry-over to impact rv's would be improved battery technology. I understand it's unlikely to be lithium due to the amount of lithium available in the world, so it will be interesting to see what the new generation of whiz kids come up with!
I bet we'll see more and more lower end rv's with dc to ac inverters built in. Although it's not new technology, the prices have become more reasonable making it a likely marketing boost for lower end stuff that traditionaly did not include one.
CamperTech,
Sorry it took me a while to get back to your post.
In regard to a lithium shortage, I'm not sure if this is a likely scenario or dis-information. There is an enormous economic struggle going on about the whole alternate energy movement. Here is one take on it from PriusChat.
You might find this off-shoot of RV.net interesting, if you haven't looked yet. I only ran across it the other day. There are several other articles on blog.rv.net of interest as well. I loved this RV World of 1937 featured video found on the main page.
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