B-n-B wrote: Since shocks are for dampening the suspension movement, the weight loading on or the difference between the front and rear axle loading really doesn’t factor. It’s the ability to decrease the cyclic motion by increasing resistance of the shock for heavier loads or varying road conditions.
It's the load weight and spring strength that decide the need for stiffer damping from the shocks. A light vehicle with soft springs = soft shocks. Heavy vehicle with stiff springs = stiff shocks. Precisely why the rear axle benefits from adjustable shocks and the front axle doesn't need them, just needs shocks that are stiff enough for the front axle weight, which is virtually the same whether loaded or unloaded.
The front shocks are on the same heavy vehicle, as you put it. Since you can not remove the independently loaded axles from the overall heavy vehicle equation, it is extremely useful to be able to dial in the resistance as needed, front and rear, to improve the overall ride quality and control of your vehicle. The fact that the load on the front and rear are not equal does not mean they both are not “heavy loads” benefiting from adjustable rebound resistance. One is just heavier than the other.
2000 F-350 7.3L PSD Super Cab 4x4 SB SRW 2006 Lance 861
(Slideout, Solar, Gen, etc.)
Air Bags/In Cab Cntl, XL 9000's,
Roadmaster Sway Bar, Rickson's
B-n-B wrote: Since shocks are for dampening the suspension movement, the weight loading on or the difference between the front and rear axle loading really doesn’t factor. It’s the ability to decrease the cyclic motion by increasing resistance of the shock for heavier loads or varying road conditions.
It's the load weight and spring strength that decide the need for stiffer damping from the shocks. A light vehicle with soft springs = soft shocks. Heavy vehicle with stiff springs = stiff shocks. Precisely why the rear axle benefits from adjustable shocks and the front axle doesn't need them, just needs shocks that are stiff enough for the front axle weight, which is virtually the same whether loaded or unloaded.
The front shocks are on the same heavy vehicle, as you put it. Since you can not remove the independently loaded axles from the overall heavy vehicle equation, it is extremely useful to be able to dial in the resistance as needed, front and rear, to improve the overall ride quality and control of your vehicle. The fact that the load on the front and rear are not equal does not mean they both are not “heavy loads” benefiting from adjustable rebound resistance. One is just heavier than the other.
You're confusing yourself and now me.
What I said has nothing to do with the front and rear axle load weights being equal to eachother or not.
Forget about the rear axle for a minute here. Just think about the front axle.
What I was talking about is the weight of the front axle does not change enough between loaded and unloaded to need an adjustable shock on the front axle. All it needs is a shock that is stiff enough for it's empty weight and spring rate and that shock will be just fine for it's loaded weight too, cause the weight difference is only 100 to 500 lbs, which for heavy duty truck shocks is like no difference at all.
Ok, now think about the rear axle.
The rear axle's weight changes drasticaly from loaded to unloaded. A typical 3/4 or 1-ton truck has about 3000 lbs unloaded rear axle weight and 6000 or more lbs max rear axle loaded weight, even more for duallys, as much as 9000 lbs and more for some. That is a HUGE difference in unloaded to loaded axle weight, 3000 to 6000 lbs difference.
The rear axle is where the adjustable shock is truely useful. That tiny 100 to 500 lb difference in front axle weight is like nothing at all as far as shock damping goes. As long as the shocks are not too weak for the unloaded front axle, they will be just fine for the loaded front axle without needing a higher damping rate.
B-n-B wrote: Since shocks are for dampening the suspension movement, the weight loading on or the difference between the front and rear axle loading really doesn’t factor. It’s the ability to decrease the cyclic motion by increasing resistance of the shock for heavier loads or varying road conditions.
It's the load weight and spring strength that decide the need for stiffer damping from the shocks. A light vehicle with soft springs = soft shocks. Heavy vehicle with stiff springs = stiff shocks. Precisely why the rear axle benefits from adjustable shocks and the front axle doesn't need them, just needs shocks that are stiff enough for the front axle weight, which is virtually the same whether loaded or unloaded.
The front shocks are on the same heavy vehicle, as you put it. Since you can not remove the independently loaded axles from the overall heavy vehicle equation, it is extremely useful to be able to dial in the resistance as needed, front and rear, to improve the overall ride quality and control of your vehicle. The fact that the load on the front and rear are not equal does not mean they both are not “heavy loads” benefiting from adjustable rebound resistance. One is just heavier than the other.
You're confusing yourself and now me.
What I said has nothing to do with the front and rear axle load weights being equal to eachother or not.
Forget about the rear axle for a minute here. Just think about the front axle.
What I was talking about is the weight of the front axle does not change enough between loaded and unloaded to need an adjustable shock on the front axle. All it needs is a shock that is stiff enough for it's empty weight and spring rate and that shock will be just fine for it's loaded weight too, cause the weight difference is only 100 to 500 lbs, which for heavy duty truck shocks is like no difference at all.
Ok, now think about the rear axle.
The rear axle's weight changes drasticaly from loaded to unloaded. A typical 3/4 or 1-ton truck has about 3000 lbs unloaded rear axle weight and 6000 or more lbs max rear axle loaded weight, even more for duallys, as much as 9000 lbs and more for some. That is a HUGE difference in unloaded to loaded axle weight, 3000 to 6000 lbs difference.
The rear axle is where the adjustable shock is truely useful. That tiny 100 to 500 lb difference in front axle weight is like nothing at all as far as shock damping goes. As long as the shocks are not too weak for the unloaded front axle, they will be just fine for the loaded front axle without needing a higher damping rate.
Again, to the OP point, and to yours indirectly, yes front adjustable shocks are good for handling the TC on the truck. As you have pointed out, despite your admitted confusion, the front axle weight changes only slightly. What has this to do with front shock adjustability in the context that is helps to control/dampen roll with the TC loaded? It’s fundamental that a front adjustable shock set at 1 has far less roll control/spring dampening effect than one set at 9, loaded or unloaded. This answers your last sentence in the above reply. The effect the TC has on the whole truck, front and rear while loaded, is the point. These negative effects the TC has on the ride of the truck entire truck can be further diminished by having front adjustable shocks. To make it even simpler to understand, using four shocks to stabilize the load is more effective than relying on two. Don’t get fixated on front and rear weight, which is what the springs are there for, to support the weight of a vehicle and control the ride height. Just remember; springs carry the weight. Got it? Now just remember shocks reduce or eliminate unwanted and excess motion in the body and suspension such as pitch and sway. They effectively slow down or oppose the action of the springs (as we learned earlier are carrying the weight) to improve ride quality. As an experiment remove your shocks and go for a ride, I think you will be amazed at the amount of rebound speed a shock takes out of your suspension. Some of what you are referring to sounds a lot like spring rate, or simply the amount of force that is required to compress a spring. While that is interesting, it does not answer the question or address what shocks, particularly adjustables up front, can do to help mitigate negative ride behavior while loaded with the TC. I hope this did not confuse you even more; it can get a little complex if you are not too familiar with all of the components involved.
B-n-B, well stated. If you simply push on the brake pedal, you move weight from the rear axle to the front axle. In my opinion. when you run over the joints on a cement highway, you shift weight on every joint. having adjustable shocks allows you to adjust your shocks to offset the shift.
All I can add is that I run Ranchos adjust front & rear, older 5 position. With camper I run rears at 4, fronts at 3 or 4. Empty, rears at 2, fronts at 1.
If I dont turn up the fronts enough the truck 'porposes' and or dives into a wheel going around corners, hard breaking. And its always to harsh if campers not on. They also control the rocking/sway. Ive never forgotten to turn up shocks when camper goes on. I have forgotten couple times to turn down after unloading, and within a mile will pull over & turn down.
Though other folks seem to have other shocks that work well for them
I find it hard to picure a shock that would match the differances I run my shocks at. So for me, yes they do dramtically improve the handling.
Thats not to say another brand shock woulndt or doenst work. Obviously from the posts there are other options.
Mark
B-n-B wrote: Since shocks are for dampening the suspension movement, the weight loading on or the difference between the front and rear axle loading really doesn’t factor. It’s the ability to decrease the cyclic motion by increasing resistance of the shock for heavier loads or varying road conditions.
It's the load weight and spring strength that decide the need for stiffer damping from the shocks. A light vehicle with soft springs = soft shocks. Heavy vehicle with stiff springs = stiff shocks. Precisely why the rear axle benefits from adjustable shocks and the front axle doesn't need them, just needs shocks that are stiff enough for the front axle weight, which is virtually the same whether loaded or unloaded.
The front shocks are on the same heavy vehicle, as you put it. Since you can not remove the independently loaded axles from the overall heavy vehicle equation, it is extremely useful to be able to dial in the resistance as needed, front and rear, to improve the overall ride quality and control of your vehicle. The fact that the load on the front and rear are not equal does not mean they both are not “heavy loads” benefiting from adjustable rebound resistance. One is just heavier than the other.
You're confusing yourself and now me.
What I said has nothing to do with the front and rear axle load weights being equal to eachother or not.
Forget about the rear axle for a minute here. Just think about the front axle.
What I was talking about is the weight of the front axle does not change enough between loaded and unloaded to need an adjustable shock on the front axle. All it needs is a shock that is stiff enough for it's empty weight and spring rate and that shock will be just fine for it's loaded weight too, cause the weight difference is only 100 to 500 lbs, which for heavy duty truck shocks is like no difference at all.
Ok, now think about the rear axle.
The rear axle's weight changes drasticaly from loaded to unloaded. A typical 3/4 or 1-ton truck has about 3000 lbs unloaded rear axle weight and 6000 or more lbs max rear axle loaded weight, even more for duallys, as much as 9000 lbs and more for some. That is a HUGE difference in unloaded to loaded axle weight, 3000 to 6000 lbs difference.
The rear axle is where the adjustable shock is truely useful. That tiny 100 to 500 lb difference in front axle weight is like nothing at all as far as shock damping goes. As long as the shocks are not too weak for the unloaded front axle, they will be just fine for the loaded front axle without needing a higher damping rate.
Again, to the OP point, and to yours indirectly, yes front adjustable shocks are good for handling the TC on the truck. As you have pointed out, despite your admitted confusion, the front axle weight changes only slightly. What has this to do with front shock adjustability in the context that is helps to control/dampen roll with the TC loaded? It’s fundamental that a front adjustable shock set at 1 has far less roll control/spring dampening effect than one set at 9, loaded or unloaded. This answers your last sentence in the above reply. The effect the TC has on the whole truck, front and rear while loaded, is the point. These negative effects the TC has on the ride of the truck entire truck can be further diminished by having front adjustable shocks. To make it even simpler to understand, using four shocks to stabilize the load is more effective than relying on two. Don’t get fixated on front and rear weight, which is what the springs are there for, to support the weight of a vehicle and control the ride height. Just remember; springs carry the weight. Got it? Now just remember shocks reduce or eliminate unwanted and excess motion in the body and suspension such as pitch and sway. They effectively slow down or oppose the action of the springs (as we learned earlier are carrying the weight) to improve ride quality. As an experiment remove your shocks and go for a ride, I think you will be amazed at the amount of rebound speed a shock takes out of your suspension. Some of what you are referring to sounds a lot like spring rate, or simply the amount of force that is required to compress a spring. While that is interesting, it does not answer the question or address what shocks, particularly adjustables up front, can do to help mitigate negative ride behavior while loaded with the TC. I hope this did not confuse you even more; it can get a little complex if you are not too familiar with all of the components involved.
I am VERY familiar with the purpose and function of springs and shocks and their affect on the vehicle. Read through some of my several hundred or perhaps thousand of posts on this forum over the last several years about truck suspension and you will find that I am VERY adept at understanding suspension and all the parts that make it up and all of their functions. I am no dummy and I do not appreceate you treating me as such. I will leave you to believe whatever you choose to believe because I don't care to continue trying to explain it to you.
On our last truck I too added Rancho's on all 4 corners & could tell the difference in body roll/sway when the settings were increased with the camper on, but if I forgot to turn them up, it was very noticeable to us.
Dale & Ellen
2005 Dodge Quad Cab 3500 5.9 CTD 4X4 Long Bed w/Tonneau cover
2002 Shadow Crusier 862 Short Bed Truck Camper, A/C
2008 Polaris X2 500 ATV
2004 Bayliner 185 BR
2002 Honda VTX1300
I have them all of the way around. You shouldn't forget the front axle because the front and rear are both affected when you add 4000lbs....roughly. If you want the sway to be reduced, you could only add a dampener to the rear, but that is giving up a potential benefit.
As others have said, the extra heavy setting on the front does help. Oh, the the case of those who "actually" have them, it isn't theoretical since we feel/see the benefit.
'06 F350 Lariat Supercab SRW, 6.0 PSD 4x4 Long Bed, Intake Elbow, Walker Big Truck Muffler. '06 Host Rainer 950 Double Slide, Fastguns. Firestone Air Bags, Rancho 9000s, Vision 19.5s with Hankook DH-01 245s, Energy Suspension bump stops.
Reddog1 wrote: B-n-B, well stated. If you simply push on the brake pedal, you move weight from the rear axle to the front axle. In my opinion. when you run over the joints on a cement highway, you shift weight on every joint. having adjustable shocks allows you to adjust your shocks to offset the shift.
Wayne
I agree with B-n-B too. Springs support the weight on each axle independently but since the truck frame is rigid, all 4 corners contribute to ride stability. Even though the static weight is almost unchanged on the front unloaded to loaded, the dynamic forces seen by the front are certainly higher. A higher COG in a corner will transfer more weight to the side at the front and rear. Shocks help to resist that transfer. Also consider that the unloaded suspension is designed to allow some rocking that isn't a problem (or really even noticeable) with an empty truck. When you add a tall heavy camper, any rocking is amplified so the suspension (all 4 corners) would be better off "stiffer".
You need to consider the forces applied to the suspension, not just the weight. Weight only translates directly to a force when things are stationary.
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