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RE: help what is my max hitch weight
Look at the other door sticker that gives 'occupants and cargo' wt. say it is 2,600lbs. Take off some for your occupants including yourself and other stuff and say 200 for the hitch in the box and the rest is available for pin wt before hitting truck GVWR.
Some don't mind going over their truck GVWR (driver's manual says not to) and worry only about hitting RGAWR (set by the tires' rating) Your choice.
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BFL13
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11/29/09 10:50am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: proposed solar setup
Some older Vectors are not, some newer ones are. But at the 60-80F temps involved I doubt it matters. I have tried various ways to clamp on all the chargers. It works best to disconnect the two pairs and lose the resistance of the paralleling cables, putting chargers on each pair. If all 12s would probably work best to put one charger on each battery, same reason.
No idea, but might be possible to do that with solar by splitting the bank for charging if you have more than one "charger" and re-joining the bank for discharging (Peukert) when not charging such as at night.
Also faster to disconnect the bank from the rig and let the converter supply 12v so no drain on batteries while trying to fill them.
My set-up is not typical so my comparisons of gen vs solar may not apply to many on the forum. Most people charge with their single fairly low amp converter from their gen taking a long time, and so must leave the battery connected and have a drain at the same time, slowing things down even worse.
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BFL13
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11/29/09 10:29am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Compromise Location For Extra Batteries
One thing to do in anticipation of getting an inverter is to install the 9245 with an accessible switch for its 110v.
Before we got the new big MSW inverter, I used to happily use the 400w MSW inverter clamped to the battery outside. Plugged shore power cable into that and now the 110v receptacles inside worked for TV/DVD etc.
But the converter was on the same 110v circuit as the receptacles so I couldn't use the circuit breaker as the switch. You can solve that ahead of time by having a switch for the 9245. (or you can just reach in under the sink or where it is to unplug it)
The fridge is also on that same 110v receptacles circuit. Some older fridges (yours?) would not stay on gas if there was any 110v. You needed to go outside and unplug the fridge from its receptacle out there behind the access cover before using the inverter that way.
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BFL13
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11/29/09 10:05am |
Tech Issues
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RE: proposed solar setup
They shouldn't loose capacity if they are indeed charged to 90%. My guess they are not being charged to 90%. Efficiency in bulk mode may be as low as 70%. How much do the batteries de-gas when charging at +100A rate?
The surface charge is high, but the inner charge is still low. The chemical reaction can't keep up with a fast charge rate. Where does the extra energy go? Boiling water (as well as heat (I^2 * R)).
Sal
Sal, it is not possible to charge too fast with Vector smart chargers. Same charging technique as the Iota IQ4.
On how the batteries lose capacity, see my post titled something like "Progressive sulfation-measured" and its thread
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BFL13
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11/29/09 09:50am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Compromise Location For Extra Batteries
A disadvantage to the plan to put another battery in the box is awkwardness getting at them and checking their water etc. Batteries up front is easier access but now you lose that cargo space. Also you need to arrange for the converter and maybe inverter and wiring routes etc. PITA.
To start with IMO just install the 9245 and stay with one battery and see how it goes. If you need more batteries for the occasional off-grid time you can do what we did at first.
Just take an extra battery or two along in the truck bed (weight is now in the truck too) and some jumper cables. When you set up camp, put the extra batteries on the ground under the battery compartment and use your jumper cables to link them with the installed battery. Later if you find you do enough off-grid to justify it, you can do something more permanent and by then you will have thought up the best way(s) to do it.
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BFL13
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11/29/09 08:21am |
Tech Issues
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RE: proposed solar setup
Good points about value of solar from those that have it. On gen noise etc, to put that in perspective, we camp with four batteries and with the inverter doing some microwave etc and a little furnace, all the usual (we don't conserve-don't need to), we do 50-90s recharging every second day using the gen and chargers.
It takes one and a half hours to recharge from 50-90 using four Vector smart chargers totalling 125amps rating. That is not much gen time every second day. And it is a Honda 3000 so it is not painful on the ears. It stays in the truck all the time and I just fill the Honda every so often while filling the truck (gas engine truck) The truck needs gas more often than the Honda. I don't even notice the tiny gas cost for the Honda when paying big for a tank of gas for the truck.
The only thing wrong with our scheme is the batteries lose capacity after several 50-90s in a row without going to 100. Then to keep going at the same rate, we would have to recharge every day instead of every second day. I believe I can fiddle with our battery useage and stretch things out a little longer so the problem goes away for the time we ever stay out without going home where the batteries can be revived to 100 before the next off-grid session.
If I double our gen time that is still only three hours every second day. I can do 40-90s instead of 50-90s. Less microwave with the inverter. etc.
If you have already sprung big bucks for a Honda 3000 there is no way you want to get $olar as well unless forced to. The calculations show we couldn't just get a little solar for a few dollars to solve the problem.
If you can't get to some shore power often enough while away then you need solar or face all day gen times every so often. The interesting thing is to calculate just when you cross over to absolutely needing solar when your gen/charging routine won't work anymore.
I don't think we are at that point but are pushing it. Others with different set-ups and camping styles may find they get there sooner or can go longer.
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BFL13
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11/29/09 07:53am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Compromise Location For Extra Batteries
By the way the 9245 has the gizzmo (charge wizard) built in and is a good converter.
I meant the remote pendant
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BFL13
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11/28/09 09:23pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Worst/most dangerous design flaw is _______
Not a safety item but our awning is just over the door so the awning has to be set high to let the door open. If you lower the awning to actually provide shade, the door can't be opened.
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BFL13
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11/28/09 07:09pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Compromise Location For Extra Batteries
I'm drawing a blank on equalizers. Is that the connecting piece between the two leaf springs? Never gave it a thought.
The equalizers are those rocker plates hanging in the middle. They have bushings in the holes that take the bolts and these bushing disappear in time and the bolts wear through the metal of the holes making them bigger and bigger until disaster strikes. When our brakes and bearings got done last time they found this with our equalizers which had under 10K miles. They said this happens often with fewer miles than that. With a 1993 anything could be happening down there. There are better ways these days like EquaFlex you can get done too but only if you plan to keep the rig forever. $
IMO, even though it costs, for the first time have a reliable shop that does lots of trailers do it who can check everything. Experienced eyes! Lots of odd things like broken wires to the brake magnets, mis-shapen magnets, etc,etc. After that you will know for sure where you are at for timing future routine inspections and grease jobs.
There are some good RV care books out there. Others so-so. I found some in our library very useful and that helps so you know which are the good ones if you ever wanted your own.
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BFL13
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11/28/09 06:58pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Compromise Location For Extra Batteries
I think with the 9245 in hand, you should use that in place of the converter portion of the original power centre. If the wiring from that corner to the DC fuse panel is at least #8 you should be ok for that distance, especially for one or two batteries. Do get the plug- in gizmo for the 9245 so you can make it do 14.4v when you want.
How to wire it in info is available on the bestconverters.com site links. Parallax site has info on those old converters too.
You could go with the existing battery set up at first till you learn if you will need two. You might put the 9245 in there with the battery and fuse panels at first instead of the corner. You can change it all later since so far you haven't done anything drastic you will be stuck with.
IMO you will discover better ways to do things for your style of camping once you go out a few times, so don't worry too much now about future upgrades. Your ideas will change and change again!
Edit: As you may know, the absolute first thing with a new- to- you rig is to have the trailer in for removing the hubs and inspect/repair the brakes and to wash clean, inspect for damage, and then repack the bearings. The equalizers may need to be replaced too. Worn bushings. Don't believe anything about who did what before you got it. :(
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BFL13
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11/28/09 05:21pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Compromise Location For Extra Batteries
I don't understand the shore cable to inverter reasoning but I'll look it up. As it stands now, I'm not ready to get an inverter until I see how much we boondock. It could very well be "not much". But as long as I am rehabbing the system, I do want to have a layout that easily accomodates one. Same goes for having two batteries.
Any idea why Jayco put the converter off by itself?
If you don't go off-grid you only need one battery. If you do go off-grid you do need two batteries and should have at least a 400w inverter to watch TV/DVD and other small 110v loads.
Now you need a way to recharge the batteries. Existing converter or new converter or old converter for on shore power but portable charger for charging batteries? A 1993 original will probably not keep you happy very long.
First, what is in there now? Maybe the converter in the corner is not the original which might have been with the fuse panel? Maybe somebody put in a newer converter? What gauge wire goes from the converter on the corner to the DC dist panel and battery box?
You need any new converter close to the batteries with fat gauge wire. You might want a higher wattage inverter which also needs to be close to the battery with fat short wires. Before spending on a new converter, and then an inverter, is it easier to get an inverter/charger in the first place for saving space? You could hang the batteries underneath and put an inverter /charger in the old battery compartment. Or put an inverter in there, keep the old converter, and get a Vector 1093 portable for charging the batteries.
So now you need a gen to run the new converter or the portable charger, so of course the hair dryer will come out whenever the gen is on so you need a good gen for that.....
You are about to rescue the economy! :)
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BFL13
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11/28/09 03:52pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Compromise Location For Extra Batteries
You could put a pair of 6s underneath that compartment on/in a new platform/compartment hanging from the frame. You have enough height there from flipping the trailer. It keeps them from being any farther away from the converter, and close to the new inverter in the compartment (which nearness is vital). Need a way to switch off converter when on inverter too.
I inserted a "cable hatch" in the door the inverter is behind, so I can pass the shore cable through to plug it into the inverter and then close and lock the door. This also helps vent the inverter which likes some cooling air.
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BFL13
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11/28/09 12:43pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: OOOO HOT!
Confirm the exhaust fan over the stove vents to the outside. If not, you need a modification. If it does, be sure the outside vent cover opens. (Some have clips to keep the flap closed)
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BFL13
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11/28/09 10:55am |
Tech Issues
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RE: proposed solar setup
we are full time off grid, with 4 batteries, we run the generator almost every day, some days more than others, occasionally not at all, do an all day run about once a week. we are heavy on the PC and lights, only occasional TV. if parked where we have to avoid using the genny ( in town at friends etc.. ), the batteries usually have enough charge that we can go several days, and not worry about it.
Which says you can survive on gen/charger for extended periods without $olar if you do it right. The all day gen run about once a week is the impossible-for- us thing I would like to replace by having a bit of $olar.
However, from the info here, it seems you can't do that. No such thing as a bit of $olar. For us, this leaves delaying the onset of excessive battery capacity decline to fit the length of time off-grid by adjusting previous methods/routines without sacrificing too much convenience.
Now all we need is a new camping season to try that out till we get it right. Drat, more BBQ less microwave? RVing is so tough on a person! :)
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BFL13
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11/28/09 08:35am |
Tech Issues
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RE: What is best external charger for Deep Charging Batteries?
What's wrong with your rig's converter? Also you can use your trickle charger on your deep cycle batteries safely assuming they are wet cell or AGM. A charger is a charger.
Not so. Both Trojan and Lifeline recommend 3-stage chargers for their deep cycle batteries. Trickle (constant current) chargers are not recommended.
Yes, you are right. What I should have said is that he can use his car battery charger on his 6v house batteries. (unless gel) It does not require a different type of charger for that. He can use the trickle charger setting to top off their charge too, but as you say he should not leave it on over-long if it does not shut off automatically once the battery is "full"
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BFL13
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11/27/09 12:25pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: proposed solar setup
pianotuna, thanks for the calculations and the work on that. I have to do some figuring.
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BFL13
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11/27/09 11:40am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Generator Drains Chassis Batteries
Isn't there an isolation switch on the dash for keeping the engine batteries from being drained by the house? (You can use this to engage the house batteries for starting the engine if the starting batteries are too low.)
I get the notion that the gen is running while failing to supply the house batteries through the inverter/charger, so you are on battery all the time, plus the isolation switch isn't isolating so the engine batteries are being drawn down with the house batteries.
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BFL13
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11/26/09 06:27pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: proposed solar setup
Quote: PWM solar chargers use technology similar to other modern high quality battery chargers.----- When a battery voltage reaches the regulation setpoint, the PWM algorithm----- slowly reduces the charging current to avoid heating and gassing of the battery, yet the charging continues to return the maximum amount of energy to the battery in the shortest time.
Don't let Hurricaner see that! It is Gospel that the battery controls the amps while tapering, not the charge controller in the smart charger.
You will be kicked out of Church, tarred and feathered, and have to move to Canada! Repent before it is too late :)
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BFL13
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11/26/09 06:15pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Generator Drains Chassis Batteries
Please clarify if the batteries that are draining while the gen is running are the engine starting batteries or the "house" batteries.
For context, what "fried" the transfer switch?
Does the gen have its own receptacle you can plug things into to see if it is supplying 110v ok besides where it goes through the transfer switch?
What is the "path" in your rig for the gen to supply the inverter/charger's charger portion once you have gone from shore power to gen via the gen-shore power transfer switch?
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BFL13
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11/26/09 05:54pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Dual Battery Chargers
Note the Paramode only does that with the optional temp assure. I don't see that we could just get a temp assure attachment for our 73xx converters. That would be neat. We need a volunteer to ask Parallax if you can do that. :)
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BFL13
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11/26/09 11:55am |
Tech Issues
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