Luck is greatly diminished with mods like ARPs that are ofteninstalled improperly, causing the heads to warp and leak with ARPs!
There's an easy fix for that! Install them PROPERLY!!!
It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to follow the work instructions Ford has published work instructions for cylinder head R&R. Installing new Ford bolts involve the same risks, since the biggest problem surrounds planing the head. Ford makes no warning about head bolt upgrades.
Many installations I know of were fatally flawed by planing the heads flat longitudinally, rather than just cross wise, as per the Ford TSB.
Needless to say, those planed "flat" longitudinally often had recurring problems.
I have a 6.4 with only 16k on it now, I absolutely love it. I bought this thing to pull and that it does. Very well!. I know there are risks involved with owning this engine, but so far so good. I drove an '08 6.4L Job1 at work as an ambulance. What the truck could take was amazing. However, at 114k miles the oil cooler let go and mixed coolant in the oil and ruined all the bearings on the bottom end. I figured out the hours to mileage for this truck(engine) and found that it only averaged just over 20 mph during its life. YES, this truck idled a lot!!!! Still, I am impressed with today's diesel engines from all 3. They turn out lots of power and run very clean compared to to their predecessors. We all know that the EPA regs and equipment on these trucks are a huge part of the dependability of these engines. Everyone around here are turning back to gas engines for all their fleet vehicles due to this. But for heavy towing, they still have to use diesels.
I bought a 6.4L PSD F-450 on New Years Eve. On New Years Day, 500 miles down the road, the fuel system took a dump. A week and $8500 later, a new fuel system was installed. Ford would not cover it as warranty work as there was rust found in the system.(consistent water in the fuel) Thankfully, I have comprehensive coverage, and the insurance company covered it (USAA is awesome)
Just a couple of weeks ago, the truck started overheating. Took it in, and found out the 5 year/100K warranty had run out in June. That cost another $2600.
As a result, if I have any more serious issues, I will be finding someone to do a 7.3L install, and make the adapters to make it work with the tranny. If that doesnt work, I'll scrap the whole thing and get a "proper" MDT (International or Freightliner type)
I love the truck, but I really hate the engine set up.
Dude: www.destroked.com ! Forget a 7.3, think CUMMINS power!
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with 3 nutty cats
My beloved St. Bernard, Marm, lost him 1/2/12
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion
Turtle-
I am only in CA because of Uncle Sam. When he quits paying for it, I'm out of here.
Also, my truck has permanent plates. I'm essentially emissions exempt for life. Frees up a LOT of possibilities.
Jarlaxle- Have thought about it, especially after reading a guys post on PS Army (?) (something like that.) He is WAY more competent at it than I am. I would be paying someone to install something like that.
As the the MDT, I've realized that I got hung up on the "pickup" looks of a F450, and didnt pay enough attention to the other MDTs. After the amount of money sunk into this truck/engine, I'd probably been better off buying an MDT, and dealing with the issues I thought I'd have.
As the the MDT, I've realized that I got hung up on the "pickup" looks of a F450, and didnt pay enough attention to the other MDTs. After the amount of money sunk into this truck/engine, I'd probably been better off buying an MDT, and dealing with the issues I thought I'd have.
Live and learn!
Watch out. MDTs are not a magic pill that makes you immune to those woes. The Navistar 6.0 and 6.4 in their own trucks has just as many problems. Sure, maybe a few less of some, but more of others. I think the frequency of died-while-driving tows is just as high.
I would be looking for a Cummins or Cat motor. The Mercedes motor is REALLY powerful, but I think repairs could be expensive down the road. If you like the Ford cab, look at F650s. They ride decent, or really nice with air ride. Turns sharper and has better visibility than the pickups too. F650s could be had with the Cat until 2007. Newer ones get the Cummins only (or the V10).
Bryan
2000 Ford E350 DRW Wagon (14-pass all captains chairs)
V10 w/ Banks PowerPack, Diablo Predator, 4.56 LS, ~350,000 miles
New Desert Fox in the works!
First, engines that are not built to the same EPA standard are generally not comparable.
Therefore, an identical engine certificated for EPA 2003 is not the same Engine certificated for EPA 2008 even if the thing is identical mechanically. This has to be not just the same certification year, but the same certification Tier and bin.
Second, apparently identical engines can have different needs and tuning that drastically change their actual in field performance.
Toy grade engines like the Cummins 6.7, Ford 6.7 and GM 6.6 are not the same as their medium grade cousins (where applicable).
A toy grade engine is cheapened in many ways, ranging from allowing it to rev more (higher rpm limits), fuel injection strategies that expend a lot more fuel to get more power (continuing to inject fuel past TDC is a tried and true technique to get a lot more torque), etc.
The identical engine certificated for different applications will have drastically different durability, power output, and reliability.
Take a look at the toy grade Ford 6.7 in a pickup truck, and the identical engine that Ford puts in a medium duty truck, and you can see the actual difference.
Then there are other design choices. The toy grade Cummins 6.7 can get by with massive EGR, but at the expense of severe penalties in fuel economy, and a very large after tail DPF / treatment system.
The identical engine with DEF is cleaner, gets better mileage, and all around a better engine.
Finally, there is the horsepower and torque scam.
The only engine in that group that passed the standardized SAE certified horsepower / torque test is the GM Duramax.
Both the Ford and Cummins came in well below the output of the GM Duramax when it is used in actual tow tests.
The actual power output is considerably less compared to the GM.
Now as for durability, all of these toy grade engines have substantially less durability than their advertised claims.
The reason is that there is no marketing advantage to claims of durability past a certain point when the majority of first buyers (the one the manufacturers make money on) don't keep it much past 200,000 miles.
Somewhere north of 200,000 miles, in as few as 5 to 7 years, the entire truck becomes decidedly clunky.
Alternators, electrical systems (a major Ford issue), emissions gear, little actuators and valves, sensors, things like instrument panel lighting, etc. all get worn and break.
Never met a 200,000 mile plus truck that have that new car feel and smell either!
So people trade them in when it gets long in the tooth, and nagging little things start to go from annoyance to trouble.
Does it matter if your cylinder block and lower end lasts 500,000 miles, or a B50 life of 350,000 miles plus (the 6.0 and 6.4 both had that benefit) when it is everything else on it that breaks?
A very different opinion may arise from having to continually tweak the emissions systems or find and get rid of gremlins that keep the vehicle in limp mode.
Having said that, it is quite illegal to install an engine system in a vehicle that is older (and not certificated) for the year of the vehicle.
It is also flatly illegal to remove or alter emissions systems.
A different make of engine also mean totally different electronics.
Maybe possible to do in a HD truck prior to EPA 2008, but on anything EPA 2008 or after, not legally possible unless the entire certificated system is moved over, including DPF, DEF, etc.
Note the software that prevents use of a truck without DPF when equipped is NOT movable from chassis to chassis without a lot of work --- at least not without re certification.
No doubt those who tell you to install an entire different engine haven't though of this.... or how to get their Rube Goldberg contraption serviced once it is built.
Welcome to the world of the clean diesel.
When you enter here, you leave the yahoos who haven't updated themselves in 10 years behind.
Jarlaxle wrote: Note: the ONLY pickup diesel used in MDT service is the Cummins! Ford does not use their awful diesel in F650's.
That did not used to be the case. At one point you could choose between the 6.0 PSD, the Cummins 5.9, and the Cat 7.3. Warranty costs caused Ford to drop the 6.0 from the MDTs, then lack of emissions compliance resulted in dropping the CAT.
Good news is the 6.7L Cummins can be had with comparable power to what the CAT motor had. At least for RV and Emergency vehicle applications (Commercial buyers are stuck with 300HP).
Pretty much correct: the Cat C7 (7.2, not 7.3) was dropped after 2007...the F-750 is Cummins only, the F-650 has the Cummins or the gas V10. I was not aware that the 6.doh ever made it into 650's...never seen or even heard of one.
Most Freightliner M2's I see also have Cummins power (including but not limited to Ryder's enormous fleet of 2008-2012's).
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