RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Well no excuse what so ever, for the wrong terminology, yes by all means Carbon Monoxide, Sorry.. That solder looks like silver soldering from here. it is done with flux a torch & a stick of silver solder, heating the metal quite hot to except the solder Those heat exchanger under go many expansions & contractions in their life cycle. The ones that I have seen up close were welded, fusing the two pieces together. I had never considered any other type of sealing of the two a jointing metals, that would undergo such conditions. Just do not know what Coleman would have done or maybe even someone else. Thus the reasoning for my post to check its condition, as do you know its history. Because of the liability in a home/ commercial furnace they are exchanged for a new exchanger or a complete unit, depending on time involved, on every failure that I have see or heard of. If one was to fail after a tec. had welded it, that weld or even another cause, the blame in court might be tried to be applied back to the tec.
Naturally someone full timing in a RV for any length of time would put a higher strain & shorten its life cycle than that one used in the spring & fall heated in the mornings. Again sorry for the wrong burning of gas terminology !!! CO
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Hello again Tony,
Those three items stacked to the left of the black painted box are the heat exchangers. The flame is produced inside of these sealed units, but open to exhaust, and the fan blows air across and over the heated steel, producing hot air. Now, as they age or sometimes sooner, they can delve lope a leak, usually at the welded seams. This lets carbon dioxide gas into the air stream, and it is toxic. Knowing this, is there any way you could very gently pressurize these, and then take a soppy tooth brush and go over the seams. Since you have them out there in front of you, would be a excellent time to check them out. A carbon dioxide detector should be on you finish list also, as the older units was not mandatory from the factory. trying to help...John
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Yep, She bought you a very nice circular saw. A 13 amp saw in that caliber of bearings & design was meant for some serious wood cutting over the long haul. Keep in mind Tony, that it is a 13 amp. That requires a 14ga or prefer a 12 gage extension for any distance at all. If not keep a watch for the motor to heat up. As that saw struggles to do what the designer intended for it to do. Be aware that if you are using a tap with any other source on that line and if it is on a normal 15amp breaker their at the box, it may & probably will continually pop. Especially with a light extension. B&D does make some nice equipment, for a long time there, they let their name, or use their older names reputation, to slide on to some rotten tools.
Support you wood, do not wear loose clothing, when you pull that trigger that is your whole world and all of your attention RIGHT THERE !!!! Pre pair ahead of time. If you go to ripping, (parallel to the stock) sharp blade is a must, and do not let your fall off, put that cut line into a bind, Keep a good grip on the handle to watch for pinch and a snap back. You have some serious power, and it will be unforgiving. Instruct everyone when that saw is running to wait to talk or approach until you put it down, not just turning it off, mind you. A carpender may just have a second though, as he then re- pulls the triger and then looks up as some one says something, than.....!!!!
Oh one more thing, that blade guard is one supper invention made by man, thus....get into the habbit of waiting for that blade to stop befor letting it down. It was made by man, and if it ever failed and stuck open...! Kinda' like a safety on a rifle or shotgun. Just because the safety is on, do not walk around or keep you finger in that triger guards area.
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
What was originally behind those dullies that keep all of the road gunk out from all of those cracks & crannies ?
Your statement on not being able to put in the floor, because.... that was the reasoning behind my suggestion for you to sit down and construct yourself a flow sheet. Just about everyone I have worked with, that was worth their salt, did not mind getting together putting their shoulders to a task to get it done. But ask those same workers to tear their work down and to re due what someone forgot to include,....!
You will be glad over all that you took the time to do all of the undercarriage work now, rather than on your back later.
In residential & commercial there is reinforced backing behind those wall panels, that can be addressed in the rough-in stages now than later also. Shower curtain rod screw backing, toilet paper holder, towel racks, tub backing, mop & broom wall mounts wall reinforcements, TV wall mounting, soap & toothbrush holders, perpendicular wall connecting mounting studs, cabinet framing to wall mounting stud, locations (lower & upper), curtains window and partitions type, Door & window reinforcements, outside lights, wall switches, duplex plugs, control panel/s, speaker/s,Check on the DIY sites on what they recommend for over the raw wood flooring on replacements of exterior doors. RV's are notorious in this area, and on & on.
I recommended this design flow chart thing to another builder sometime ago, his reply was that he was a hands on kind of guy, kind of go with the flow sort. Its up to the man that doing the work.
RE: Front Window Replacement & Removal
Nagel, I am a retired sheetmetal worker, so hello. Here is my take on your problem. Over a Ripsnorts excellent rebuild front end. Go to his site on the description of his project. Drop down to the seventh picture. There is what he did and what I think will be you solution. He completely re-framed it, as if from the factory there was never a window there in the first place. No plug, just framing and over that a sub-base (plywood) then the outer sheet metal skin. Nagel, he just does not have to worry about the possibility of going back repetitively to look for a leak or to solve one from the delima of building a plug , then sealing it,& from it's movement to break a seal. Smooth finish, done and done complete.
Second thing might be, Do you have access to a shop that has a de-coiler, with possible a roll of paint lock, or with paint bonded metal. or just aluminum. Measure back to on the vertical side, some where behind the cab ( horizontal drip down over edge of the connection, with a hand/break, form a pittsburg, or a pipe lock edge, seal the companion raw edge on the connection on the two. ) roll under over & up over the nose and on up to where the roof material connects with one piece.
As a second though, while you are in there. You will be able to replace some of that rotten wood framing, & insulation that, well....maybe (!!!) is in there. Sooner or later that damp musty odor will mwke you wish you had.
What do you think ??
RE: Dry air problem? Need some humidity
This would be just a guess, how about in the bathroom using the shower curtain rod, hanging some kind of closely netted soaked cloth like a cheese cloth. To allow the heated air in the rv to evaporate the moisture. Using as an example the humid felling in normal circumstances when there is a closed door small shower room.
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Sure there has been for many years a metal called "Paint Lock", it is a metal that has a coating, which allows paint to adhere. There are already metal painted from the factory with 20, 30, 40, year warranted bonded paint of many colors. Thus this boom in metal roofs, complete buildings, strip malls, car ports, sheds, Etc. Because of this vastly improved methods of bonding paint to metal, with out rust popping up all over.. The cost would be the item here, as if the sheet metal shop did not normally carry it. It would have to be special ordered shipping and all overhead & profit would be passed on to the buyer. Sheets in a sheetmetal shop from 30 gage (very light) up, are cut to a set width & length for shipment handling and storage in the shops, this varies from the supplier & shops ability. A larger SM shop ( usually in a large city) could be set up to handle huge coils of metal of a certain width & many feet long. This set up is called a de-coiler machine, usually a CAD-CAM, ((Computer Assisted Drawing--Computer Assisted Manufacturing)) shop, very costly to complete set this shop up. Thus a customer could buy from this sheetmetal company, a set width by almost any length of almost any gage. There for if cost was not an option this re builder could go this route, re rapping the complete nose of their rv's, or for that matter, clear on back over the whole roof continuous.
It is my just guess here, that the overall cost of Tony's project is going to be quite extensive, and if he does not watch out for the Penney's the dollars is going to go threw.......
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
I'd agree with doing away with that front window. Just about all Truck campers have done away with them, as stated up above. Raining and the coach going 65 or so, puts a big strain against the window seals for how ever long down the road. But how to plug the opening, that would be a big question also. Make sure that the angle will support anything that is planed to put on top, if that floor would sag or split.......
Had to go back to page two to see that you have side windows so all is not dark up there.
RE: RV staples and stapler?
Snowman, Darn, darn, darn,,, gosh and all. Just my own opinion !!!!! I extremely dis like Butyl. That stuff was probably invented back in the stone age. OK, a thought...what do you supposed that they used at the factory when you trailer rolled of the assembly line under that bright and shinny trim....Guess ???? And now you are..... In construction on oh say a big job, setting large sky-lites. Ask the installers to use Butyl and he would be still lauffing every time he saw you a months later. That stuff dries up and then it shrinks.....but low and behold it is still flexible & maulable. So what !!!!
RE: RV staples and stapler?
What type of trim/covering are you thinking about going back with. A lot of RV trim would not except the heads of flat head screws, some nails And machine heads lose their holding power when tightened down on thin aluminum. Ring nail have a good grip, as states above coated is even better. Staples on shear is good, less on a pull. They have a broad base of fastening if ,as in all of the cases, the base wood is good and remains that way. As far a production line, air power & staples are long the standard, and no one there worries about 5-10 years after it gets out the door. It is not even an issue. I used Monel staples, water resistant. But serious considered for a little while hot dipped galvanized 1" fence staples. All said and done Snowman, may I respectively suggest do a through research on the caulking you are going to use to cover it all up with. This is you last & longest line of repelling.
RE: Battery went... BOOM!!!!
This is why the multi stage, and rather expensive, solid state chargers have become so popular in the bass boating industry. Those battery's are tucked down there some where out of the way due to storage space. Realizing Rv do not have the above chargers, the above fellow Rv'ers answers have hit it right on. On the hook up and charging on these single stage chargers. Be carefull out there !!!
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Well with that solid rafter arrangement that bob you uncle layed out there is very little option to run duct up there. I think that is one reason why the industry went with a truss arrangement for their roof top AC. To run insulated duct between the cords, up there & straight off of the Ac's plenum. bring up the question where is you AC located ? Its apparent you could not run it below the floor. My thinking is at the ceiling wall corner, having an outlets on the side or out of the bottom which ever would work out where. The type of furnace would dictate this.
I admittedly, have not delved into the various RV furnaces types. In the commercial side this is done all over the place. To have better air dispersion trunk line run down the center of the ceiling would have been really ideal. But....! On the corner of the floor (or for that matter the ceiling also), naturally would take a bit off designing from floor space, cabinets, wiring, sofa, table, and obstacles. Where as the out of the way ceiling dispersion. Which ever way you will have to sit down and take the time to give your mind time to visualize this part of you re-construction as to the over all plaining. If the supply comes from above, pull the return from below and vica-versa this creates a circular air pattern, and greatly reduces the times when a person is sweating and yet has cold feet... All of this interior planing stage will be up on you, here pretty quick, as fast as you are winding up those exterior walls. You might sit down (cold outside) and construct a flow sheet, These help later when you *** is knee deep in aligators .
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Hi Guy,
A little story here if I could. Way back when, in a residential sheetmetal shop. One of the regular, boring task a couple of apprentices had to do, was to maned each side of a 8' break and for hours fold up w-valley for stock. With at the least of two complete 180 flip of the strip. If you got cut, is was an instant infection, run & grab for the Peroxide or iodine & tape (usually duct), because of the tin's coating. Than came what I remember was called the California weave, that put a dent in all of those hours of drudgery.
W-valley is made of tin, and with a weather oily coating material. Those who were wealthy, could afford aluminum or in the extreme copper, because of the long weather resistant. Aluminum would have been my 1-100 first choices. It is a very impervious long lasting weather resistant metal. But you have to do what you have to do.
AHHH HAAA, you are talking about your duct runs. Ohhhhhh.not the for menchioned gas neck trap !
Ok then, Sure you could make it out of galvanize tin. Most duct work is. Tony, could if you furnace is on the wall you started on (I think because of the lack of windows) could you run your duct streight away along the upper corner ceiling/wall & soffeted in. A outlet cut into the bottom/side for Living, Bathroom, if on that common wall, ending and feeding the back bed room. One thing here to note, If you rely on a register to dampen down air flow to an area, expect wind noise/whistle at this point. A up flow, control damper is the way to go on any outlet. If done in a cool designed way, no covering. In this method you duct does not have to be insulated because it is in it own heated environment.
Round pipe gives you less static on the fan, thus the closest to round is square, the farthest effecent is a flat rectangle (extreme= 3" x 20", BAD< BAD< BAD !!!!) for your trunk line.
RE: my free 1971 scamper 15 foot Travel Trailer
Sorry to read what I had expected that you would find dd, When you had pointed out in you film, "that in this corner...." That is how it started out in my re-build of my Jayco T. camper. along with me reaching up to the top of the cab-over while the camper just happen at that time to be on a set of horses. Nonchonately and giving a pull down. Then hearing a breakfast serial type crunches. What an eye opener and the beginning of.....
Snowman, I had never knew about that last highlighted site that you posted. Who ever wrote it hit it right on. I will disagree with he/they on one minner point, the type of caulking he stated. My trade was in construction, there has been developed by the various chemical co. and combination of such chemicals, far better caulks than that. With out stating my preference, if a person sets out to caulk his home, trailer, boat, dog house, what ever today. He should do some research on his labors to assure he is using the right product, put upon the right way. My gosh if you are going to do or have to do it, do it just once. This computer at my front, puts all that right at hand, as per you finding the above mentioned article.
RE: my free 1971 scamper 15 foot Travel Trailer
dd, In personal opinion that strip of which you typed is an enormous joke. Let me give you a, real first hands on, picture . You have framing of 1x1's or at best 2 x 2's wood studs top & bottom plates, and most likely pine. It is readily available, there for relativity cheep. There is a horizontal piece running from front to back to this fastens the top of the studs. all a long the side/s. On top you have a roof supported rafter on to which is a plywood base & then the roof outer layer. At the outside of these rafters butted & fastened up against all is a common board, front to back. The top of the horizontal side wall board is stapled to this rafter end board, plus the siding, all even with the top layer of the roof. Now all depends on everything being just perfect square and un warped you have a small gap here. Note; no where is everything perfect in this assembly line. So how to cover such a gap. Lets come up with a 1" wide piece of Shinny but bendable up & down, aluminum strip. With holes drilled all down threw the center, to fasten to the wood framing below. We also can come up with a ribbon caulking material the width of this aluminum strip stick it on the bottom of the strip, run the iron screws in to the wood. As we fasten the who thing to cover up this gagged opening & staples. Then slide a arc piece of rubber into the top of the molding to make it all look peachy keen. Whats wrong here you say ???
1. That raw gap opening space is not constant, it is close and the far apart.
2. That strip of caulking is not the very best, and if the screws do not pull down enough (TO much is not good ether it warps said strip) the caulking strip does not do its job at all.
3. The metal to metal contact between screws heads and aluminum strip are not gasket ed or caulked.
4. Said screws leak big time, rust, and then rot the very wood around that the threads that they are meant to bind against.
5. The more the rust the less the screw, the bigger the hole, the more the rot, the bigger the rotten wood, thus weaken structure, more water.
6. After years of this fa lousy method, you see water in side, but by then there is a huge amount of moldy rotten wood structure somewhere underneath it all.
7. BUT, because of the designer for though, & long out of warranty, all you see on that outside corner, is this shinny aluminum strip with this white piece of rubber concealing all that is going on underneath. but barely holding on.... Peachy Keen, no problem here, Neet,,,,, huh !!!
8. But there is water spot here in these corner, where could it come from ??? Guess. How many have taken out just a little paneling to find out, only a year or so later finished their rebuild of the whole thing ?
RE: my free 1971 scamper 15 foot Travel Trailer
With out taking apart parts of the sides/top etc. to find the intrusion it is going to be tough to find. You are going to have to reseal without exception every opening/penetration threw the camper. Lights ,vents, windows, and to do a great job. That might require to litter y taking the windows out. The sealant around these & those was not ment to last eternity, & it would be past time to do so, because you will shortly have more if you do not. The caulking and Eternalbond tape now days, make the seal once done, would give you supper neat find, a second life of a long lasting pleasure to stay in. Looks well worth the effort !!
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Ah, these campers are like a boat, you never have enough storage. If there is a junk yard around the newer gas tanks on some vehicles are a thick rubber material, all kind of configurations & sizes.
I looked up Harlan on the Atlas. Man you are way out there, where seldom is heard and the analope rome, or so the song goes. Anyway,,, if there is a siding company in those three larger closer towns on 75, these company's use aluminum to make up trim/soffet covers in the field with a hand break. Their scraps are not full sheets but plenty big/wide enough for patching material. Comes in colors, could be picked up for the price per # of scrap recycling dollars. It is a very good mill thickness, to work & cut with.
Lay out your duct runs with NO or very, very few turns. A short throated 90 degree turn is the equivalent to a 10 foot run of straight pipe as far a the static ( a form of friction/resistance) put on that fan's rating. A furnace has a static rating on the amount of air that fan will push for a set length amount of static. Burner manifold come into play as this overall rating also. To many turns, or using this flex piping junk, and all you will get out at the end, is the sound of the furnace's fan. It wont be to long before you will be framing in the vent shaft on you frig,/furnace. I saw once looking looking around over the web a really efficient design, its out there.
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Make your own, out of a flat sheet of aluminum. Eventually you are going to have to get a sheet. Cut two pieces the size of the od of the square (or bigger if needed) both matching the same hole with a center over lapping cut. Slip on from from both sides,pop rivet the overlap. Since it is gas, you would not want any seeping past, I would seal the lap with an aluminum gutter sealant/squeeze tube it will come in handy later also.before pop riveting . Bolt to flange. Clean threads on tube before screwing cap back on---or you will be sorry !!
If you are to put in a black water tank flush system, now would be the time to do it before that flooring. Or any thing else laying down there exposed. Exhaust, brake line, emergency brake cable, wiring tunnel bracket/s. With that rafter configuration where is is the furnace ducted air runs? The one big advantage with a 5th or TT is that you have advantage that you can use the truck for storage for tools, jacks, flairs, & the likes. On a class c what you have is all you have got. On your floor plan if you could find an fairly easy access from above you could construct an out of the way storage space below, in an out of the traffic pattern place. Under something, bottom of a cabinet with lid. It would have to be framed and sealed to the size of the box ,thick but flexible plastic tank with the top cut out. Just a thought.
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Hey Tony,
Yea, I followed Bob's rebuild, I remember a picture of him laying vinyl looking into the camera smiling. I was thinking at that time how much is he hiding the pain he feels in those/his knees & back ? His roof looks plenty strong, great job of setting rafters, and how important it is to have straight & true boards, level & true walls, those two straight 2 x 4 ridge boards to fill the close tolerance cut notches. The Stanley tri-square is about 4" long so it appears that his rafter rise is about 5 1/2" to about 3" to the rafter tails. Nice fall! If it was me I would have then made a encasement wire run along the top most inside finish corner for all front to back wiring runs. On the after market there are many types of colored rubber covering for surface run wiring. No drilling into rafters. I also, as stated to another re-builder recently, I AM supper fond of what a lot of upper class MH's do & some 5th wheels. (Google it ) Is to build a radius outside corner roof to sidewall. This causes that rubber roof material to roll over one piece on all along on that out side corner, with the seam about 3" down on the side. Thus making a horizontal drip edge the length of the coach. no seam at roof edge !!! And most of all importance (IN MY OPINION) take away that MISERABLE designed stapled siding together corner,, covered with a narrow aluminum band molding with screw hole running its entire length., THEN running screws right threw into that corner with no sealant for a screw metal to metal surface..What a piece of junk !!!!!!! Redicielious !!!!Bad,Bad,Bad. PREPOSTEROUS.
When you go to buy lumber there is several types of wood & thus weight/strength. Some where their is a table for these various types of strengths per span. I met a Weyerhaeuser rep. oh some 15-20 years ago once who gave me a sliding scale. White wood is sold as a stud for example, VERY, VERY LIGHT in weight comparable. Is not from the pine family but Tulip, Bass, Cotton woods. So not all standard lumber bought at these yards have the same characteristics vertical or in a weight bearing span. Example; To bet you life on a span of scaffold boards, even though all might be 2 x 12's there is but one type to buy !
In this one thing that I had thought about is, the center most unsupported span of you flooring from the two main beams to the outer casing, and the interior wall & floor attachment along those outer walls resting on that floor. You have four metal main welded extensions on the passenger side with the rear one welded onto the bumper horn. On the driver side there does not seem to have only three?( p. 4&6) on the drivers...P, #7 shows what may have been wooden original more wood joist in between. Did you have to tear out some wood joist that filled these large open floor joist space. If not be carefully on the type of floor material you put back, in as to its supporting capabilities.
On another note, any one that normally rides in a car then when climbing into a van, the first thing that they notices is very apparent road noise all around them. All of that open floor space, compared to a car. Could the makers of your van used that foam sandwich floor as a sound suppressant & then also as a weather insulator for all that back open area?
RE: Total Rebuild of a 1979 Dodge Class C
Spectrmac, I had noticed that also. On page 10 third photo down. (Great shot & timing on those pikes by the way, I really like to fish also) His sides are/were framed in a tube steel on top. You can see the steel tube column also. Which he has painted black. The whole wall it appears is nestled into & between this metal framing. Which as good as I can see the lower part was welded to the center frame extensions,running perpendicular out to this edge. Page 7 shows the lower original old bottom plate, sitting on the metal framing. With that inside metal angle forming the outside edge of the abutment of the wood flooring. Thickness of the replacement floor might come into play here. Notice how heavy/beefy they made those rafters. They appeared to have been doubled. I have seen stick framing adds. on various trailer & 5th's manufacturers, now it seems they put a arced narrow roof rafter over the top of the same thickness ceiling joist, with spanners between. sort of like a small roof truss. Good photo by the way, Tony.
