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RE: Longer campsites

You are going to need way more than 50 feet. You are probably neglecting the hitch and ramps. Once you remove your 16 foot long car, you have that to add to the length of what you need. We limit rigs like yours to just a select few sites. They just plain take up too much room. A motorhome and car trailer won't be a problem everywhere, but it is likely to be a problem somewhere.
westernrvparkowner 09/21/16 08:56pm General RVing Issues
RE: Colorado residents don't want tourists anymore

As a native Coloradoan, I get zero of your money, I seriously doubt this to be true. Typically when a segment of the economy is booming it affects all the economy. They pay for things that also benefit you and everybody, albeit perhaps indirectly. Sometimes the best economic model is to let others pay for the things you need/like. And since tourists typically go home after leaving their money in your state, you benefit.It is very much a give and take. Yes, tourist provide jobs, purchase items and generate tax revenue. That being said, they use law enforcement, fire, ambulance services, search and rescue and a myriad of other services. Tourists buying fuel do generate road taxes, but they are driving on the roads, leading to wear. Seasonal employees tax government services as well. They earn a fine income during the season, but many go on unemployment and food stamps in the off season. Housing cost rise in tourist areas due to increased demand for housing for workers and diminished supply due to conversion of residential property to vacation rentals. Fine if you are a property owner, not so fine if you are a renter or prospective resident. As for attitudes, until you walk a mile in a hospitality industry moccasin, you really don't know what it is like to deal with hundreds of tourists daily. Suffice to say it doesn't always come up roses. To many, tourists are like the IRS, they understand why they are necessary, and you have to treat them with respect, but you still don't like them always at your doorstep.
westernrvparkowner 09/19/16 04:20pm RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Rv was totalled by insurance company

An Agreed Value policy requires an appraisal, auction receipt or similar evidence of value before they write a policy. They will only write a policy up to the value of the item, not just any figure you pull out of your head. Otherwise, you could take out a $50,000 policy on your Pinto and then have Tommy the Torch do his thing. A vehicle with a salvage title is pretty much worthless, unless it is the imfamous silver Porsche 550 that James Dean was driving when he crashed and died. That car, salvage title or not, would be valuable. A run of the mill RV, not so much.
westernrvparkowner 09/17/16 06:51pm General RVing Issues
RE: Woodsmoke Campground Pet Policy

How do they expect to collect this "fine"? They're not a government agency, they have no executive branch to execute enforcement or judicial branch to mandate enforcement. Sure they can put words in the rules that you "agree" to when you camp, but are they going to spend $5000-8000 in court to collect $75 from you? Home owners associations and apartment complex that use this same service at least have a captive audience, they can force you to pay the fine through threat of eviction at least... I think if you called their bluff they'd be in a hard spot. Eviction is not an easy or fast process, especially if you own the home/condo or are otherwise current with your rent payments.They are going to collect it like they collect any fee. You are going to sign a form that allows them to collect it, same as staying at a hotel where you agree to pay for whatever you take out of the mini fridge. Obviously, this is a park that caters to longer stays. It would not work in an overnight or short term stay park, but I am 99 percent sure that they know their problem is in the long term stays. Twenty bucks is cheap. I usually pay more than that in pet fees every night I stay in a hotel with my dog. As with most things in this world, everyone has options. 1. Pay the fee and live with the policy. 2. Don't bring a dog 3. Go somewhere else. Pet waste is a problem. Every park that cares about their guests' experiences is always searching for a solution. I am sure they just didn't decide this policy on a lark. If they lose a few guests while solving their pet waste problem they are most likely going to consider that a big win.
westernrvparkowner 09/17/16 08:16am General RVing Issues
RE: Camp ground laundries

Nope, not embellished as we had first hand experience with someone urinating in the dryers at a military campground. You could see and smell the urine in the dryer. Thankfully, I always check first before blindly throwing in my clothes. Not sure how the machines would ever be usable again. I certainly never used them again. I guess we have bad luck because we find laundromats to be pricey and dirty. Currently, we are without our 5th wheel on a trip and have had to use campground laundries. The wash price is $3.50 per load and $.25 for 8 minutes of drying time which includes cool down at our current campground. I really miss our stackable washer/dryer in our 5th wheel. And we can do laundry on our terms, not wasting time sitting for hours in a laundromats waiting for washers/dryers to become free, where the machines are always broken and the dryers take a fortune to dry. We usually do laundry once or twice a week and we do not even own 2 weeks worth of clothing as full timers.In my travels I have found that the facilities are a reflection of the guests. A bunch of ratty rigs and you will have ratty facilities. If the facilities are broken down, the rigs in the park will be as well. In my years of travel, I have never experienced what you describe as common. But then again, I have never stayed in a military campground. I wouldn't think such behaviors are illustrative of our serviceman, servicewomen, and veterans, but what do I know.
westernrvparkowner 09/15/16 02:35pm General RVing Issues
RE: A/C off of 20 amp service?

It is much more likely the salesperson said to not run the AC on a 20 amp connection because there is very little margin for additional loads on 20 amps and it is highly likely the breakers are going to trip at some point. That isn't a problem in and of itself, but many appliances and the like have cool down periods and de-powering them in mid operation (which is what happens when a breaker trips) isn't good. Also, if breakers trip while the rig is unattended, there may be other things that can be harmed. The chassis batteries may very well totally discharge, again not good. If the fridge wasn't dual fuel, or didn't properly switch over, food could spoil. Pets could get overheated. If you think your rig is getting shore power and it isn't, there can be problems. In my opinion, if you are operating the AC in an RV on a 20amp circuit, you need to monitor it frequently at the least. Not everyone would do that and that is where trouble would begin.
westernrvparkowner 09/15/16 10:55am Class A Motorhomes
RE: It's not just FCA

Given the choice between building big vehicles that sell and little vehicles that don't, I, like Ford, would choose to build and sell the big ones, rather than build and store the little ones.
westernrvparkowner 09/15/16 10:46am Tow Vehicles
RE: Camp ground laundries

If someone peeing in the dryer is a big concern, plan your washes around laundries that have stacked dryers. The upper dryer would require one heck of a man to pee in it.
westernrvparkowner 09/15/16 07:34am General RVing Issues
RE: Building an RV Park from scratch under 50k?

Yeah I'm staying out of it and I'm moving to England at the end of the month anyway. Anyway updates: they got the water meter tapped and just to put a meter in Will be 11,200 which they're going to do now and will take a month or so ? That's all I know No current water or existing plumbing on land I believe we have all been "catfished". Moving to England and the well has become a municipal water source. And we all took the bait, hook, line and sinker. It was fun while it lasted.
westernrvparkowner 09/12/16 03:58pm RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Building an RV Park from scratch under 50k?

One thing we always need to remember is that the 'RV owner' covers a vast range of people with vastly different needs and desires. Most of what we talk about on this fourm are RV parks for recreation. Either destination or traveling parks. Some discussion about long-term parks for snowbirds and full-timers. We are still pretty much mobile. But there is a huge group of people with RVs who seldom, if ever, move their rigs. The RV is just a small, relatively cheap, place to live. Most would vastly prefer to have a S/B house, but it isn't in the budget at this time, nor is a 'better' RV park.They are generally called "trailer parks". But regardless of what they are called, they operate under licenses and permits. A gaggle of 15 RVs, whether permanent or mobile, is going to draw immediate scrutiny. If the park is comprised of people whose rigs never move and they are paying rents in the $200s and $300s, you can bet the local police will have the place on speed dial.
westernrvparkowner 09/11/16 04:50pm RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Building an RV Park from scratch under 50k?

Thanks for the tips guys! I like the start small think big! I really hope it works I haven't voiced my concerns to them and probably won't, a picture of the land is even my cover photo on fb lol. I just wanted to see what you guys thought and if there was anything useful I could encouragingly run by them. I think though from the feedback that it's best I just sit this one out and let them learn as they go, I'm certain a simple phone call about an estimate will awaken them to permit considerations and the like . I'll update for sure! I hope it can work bare bones at leastFor having multiple Ivy League degrees, you are having a very hard time wrapping your head around the fact that starting big, small or in between won't work if you do not have the proper permits and infrastructure in place. They don't have those permits, and don't plan on obtaining them. The authorities aren't going to have too much mercy on them. They will shut them down in a heartbeat and won't care how much they have put into it. There isn't any place so isolated that the officials are just going to miss it. Hopefully, the guy giving the $50,000 is someone who can afford to lose it, because as currently outlined, the plan is doomed to failure. And if he doesn't want to be on the hook for unwinding all the unpermitted construction and all the bills these people are going to run up in the "business" name he better structure his investment as a loan, or he will be on the hook as a partner. All the people who put in materials or labor and expect to paid at the completion of the job are going to go looking for the deep pockets to get their payment, and the people $200,000 in debt don't meet that criteria, but someone with $50,000 to throw away might.
westernrvparkowner 09/11/16 12:17pm RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Building an RV Park from scratch under 50k?

Hi again, thanks for the pointers here! I still don't know how or if I should break it to them. For the person saying I am more involved than I let on, omg thank GOD I am not!!!! Absolutely not, I hate to let you down but I think if I were this delusional I wouldn't be here getting information and doing my due diligence, I would just live in ignorant bliss...I will confess that 2/3 people involved are some of my best friends on earth and the other person is an ex of mine. What is hard for me is that I spent a year not speaking to any of them and I (in the back of my head) wished for karma to hurt them....but now we have reunited and I feel horrible for ever wishing that, they are kind and amazing people, if YES very misled and very...idealistic to a fault. I like what someone said about know the region and knowing that they could rent it for 300-400 a month, I think that is their budget situation, 15 spots at 350 a month would give them a profit. Their mortgage is 700 a month and they'd give 1/3 of the profit to the investor. Yes I think the investor is not smart. Yes I am worried its going to fail miserably. Yes, their financials are a disaster. Yes I thank my lucky stars every day that I am not involved. But No, I am not going to write them off immediately...maybe they can get people to agree to live in a shitty dirt lot with basic access to water and power for 50k without the right permits, and then as time goes by they can save to get the upgrades and permits they need, I DONT KNOW. i honestly doubt it very much, that is an ideal scenario... tbh, they are all high school or college drop outs, very smart but not practical. I have a couple ivy league degrees (so obnoxious I KNOW) but they disregard my more "analytical mind" as closed and limited to opportunities and potential. I, on the other hand, view their plans as impetuous and reckless.... I am glad I am on the side I am .... they risk all their money on that 1 in a 1,000 shot, I on the other hand only fork over my money if the odds are greater than 50/50. I used to wish that time would prove me right ....but now....No. I don't want that. I want to protect them...or help them succeed without involving my money and without seeming too controlling or negative...WHICH IS VERY HARD--given the power dynamics between us. As it is, anytime I correct my Ex or make fun of their language, I get a "sorry I am not as sophisticated as you" or "sorry I don't have the degrees you do" or "you should get back together with xyz because they are educated" --It is very very hard for me to relay pertinent information without it being targeted as pretentious babble of the elite...even though, like I said, I am from the same poor ass town they are without any savings or inheritance of my own ... What would you do if these were your 3 best friends on earth? Who have a history of not listening to you or thinking you are too much of a blue blood ? (even though you are self-made?) It's a very delicate process for sure...Maybe you should be questioning why you have several Ivy League degrees and your three best friends are uneducated. Why you are successful, and your three best friends are a financial mess. Why your best friends treat you with contempt, offering backhanded insults with the "we aren't educated, like you" comments. Do you have a need to be vastly superior to the people you are around, or do you have a "Knight in white armor" complex and need to be the fixer for everyone? I think the solutions to concerns with your friend's ridiculous plan lies not in what you can tell or offer them, but, rather, in why you are involved in the first place.
westernrvparkowner 09/11/16 09:35am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Building an RV Park from scratch under 50k?

Doesn't take anywhere near 125 sites to be profitable. Say you had a 40 site park and built it for $800,000. Operates for 8 months out of the year with a 60 percent occupany rate (not bad, but not exceptional either) At $40 a night, that would be revenues of $230,000. Figure operating costs of about 30 percent, you will have net income of about $160,000. That's a 20 percent return on your investment, not too bad. Even if you paid a manager couple $5,000 a month for those eight months, instead of running it yourself, you would have a return north of 15 percent. Can't get that on your savings account. The trouble with the OPs situation is $50,000 is a far cry from $800,000 and building a park in the middle of nowhere won't ever generate $40 a night rates or 60 percent occupancies. 125 sites didn't seem right. This is the first time I've seen a CG owner post actual realistic numbers. Thanks. We've been in a few CGs with only around 20-30 sites so small ones do work. Curious, how does an owner market your CG/RV park to get customers in the door, esp. if new? Do you need to get connected with C-C, RPI or one of the others? Does internet only work? Get into local tourist type magazines? It's nice to think about building a CG but I'd be pretty nervous that nobody would show up.Internet is the best advertising medium today. Who knows what will happen 10 years from now. I would only get involved in two types of parks, destination at a location where people want to be, or an overnight park located on a major thoroughfare preferably near a mid sized town. You would have to plan on at least three years to build traffic. A problem many new parks have is they were built on the cheap, using existing buildings etc. They look half-done and reviews will reflect it and they will have a very hard time building reputation and hence business. If I was doing it, everything would be brand new, and that would be the theme of my advertising. I would have highway billboards on the approaches to the park, preferably about 10 to 20 miles out proclaiming "ALL NEW PARK". The third advertising leg would be to either affiliate with GoodSam or become a KOA. Those are established names that draw customers. Magazines and the like are a waste, unless you have a seasonal park and I have no experience or expertise in those parks so I wouldn't know what works for them.
westernrvparkowner 09/11/16 09:25am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: My son is broken down in Wendover, NV/UT

Call the parts store, find the alternator and then tell them you are willing to pay to have it delivered to Wendover. Someone at the parts store will have a friend or family member willing to drive it out for the right price. Money talks and everything else walks. You will, however, have to convince them that you aren't a serial killer or full of Bullpoo and will actually come across with the delivery cash.
westernrvparkowner 09/11/16 08:56am Roads and Routes
RE: Tiny houses.

I think the whole thing is a big con and the network producers of those shows are laughing all the way to the bank. They are preying on people who will literally agree to do anything to get their 15 minutes of fame. The show reminds me of watching another con, Dr. Oz, when he tells people that some roots and dirt ground up in a blender will taste exactly like a chocolate Sundae. Then you watch the people gag it down and summon every ounce of muscle control to not puke it all up and forfeit their chance to be on TV. I couldn't agree more!! Just a big con game disguised as "entertainment". Ice Road Truckers and Axmen come to mind as well. Oh, and the WWE, the last "real" sport in America. :W DanAh Yes, wrestling and horse racing, the only honest sports remaining, and I am starting to wonder about horse racing.
westernrvparkowner 09/11/16 08:34am General RVing Issues
RE: Provincial parks payments

Thanks all. About getting money at the border, we stopped at a bank to exchange $300.00 and were treated like cheaters. They examined the bills, asked all sort of questions, etc. I was just wondering about a better way. No problem carrying Canadian money at all. I do understand the bit about being in a foreign country, and using their money. See you next year up North.We aren't very far from the Canadian Border and we wouldn't think of taking any Canadian Currency. First, we have no idea what a Canadian 20 looks like. You could bring in Monopoly Money and say it is Canadian and what would we know? We have enough concerns in not accepting counterfeit US currency, wouldn't have a clue about a counterfeit Foreign Bills. Second, even though you went to a bank, it is obviously not a bank you have an account with since it is in another country. There is no upside in them changing US to Canadian currencies. It doesn't generate much income, takes employee's time and if they get handed a counterfeit US bill, they take the loss. And just like my little ole RV Park, they are much less familiar with Foreign Currency than they are with their own. Whenever I cross into our northern neighborhood, I just accept the fact that there will be fees attached to using my ATM and my Credit cards and the money is going to have goofy names and weird people on them.
westernrvparkowner 09/11/16 08:27am RVing in Canada and Alaska
RE: Building an RV Park from scratch under 50k?

There'd be numerous codes, regulations, and standards that would have to be complied with if doing it fully permitted and inspected. Some of them are: The NEC has specific requirements for RV parks. How much is the power utility co. going to charge for a connection? Electrical alone would eat up a big chunk of the $50K. There's NFPA 1194 "Standard for Recreational Vehicle Parks and Campgrounds" that covers fire protection and a number of other things. In Texas there's TCEQ (Texas Commission on Environmental Quality) which covers water supply, wastewater and storm water disposal, garbage disposal and outdoor burning. 15 or more sites can be considered as a public water supply. Texas TCEQ There's no contingency fund to put towards any unforeseen costs? There could very well be a whole lot of them you never knew of or thought about. Has there been any analysis of projected income versus operating costs? According to one source of info. I read, it takes 125 sites to break even. Any savvy investor wouldn't go near it.Doesn't take anywhere near 125 sites to be profitable. Say you had a 40 site park and built it for $800,000. Operates for 8 months out of the year with a 60 percent occupany rate (not bad, but not exceptional either) At $40 a night, that would be revenues of $230,000. Figure operating costs of about 30 percent, you will have net income of about $160,000. That's a 20% return on your investment, not too bad. Even if you paid a manager couple $5,000 a month for those eight months, instead of running it yourself, you would have a return north of 15 percent. Can't get that on your savings account. The trouble with the OPs situation is $50,000 is a far cry from $800,000 and building a park in the middle of nowhere won't ever generate $40 a night rates or 60 percent occupancies.
westernrvparkowner 09/10/16 07:42pm RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: OMG - ants in California!!

Fruit trees are one of those things that sound great until you have a couple. Our winter place had several, oranges, lemons, grapefruit, limes and the fruit was delicious. Then comes the mess from fallen fruit, the bugs, and worst of all, fruit rats. Those fruit trees have pretty much been replaced by flowering bushes and palm trees. Not as tasty, but a whole lot easier, rats not included.
westernrvparkowner 09/10/16 06:50pm General RVing Issues
RE: What's up with RV Sales People?

PPL is a unique dealership that has a very different business model compared other RV dealers. The vast majority of what PPL sells is consignment, meaning someone else owns the unit. PPL also sells more RV's than any two RV dealerships in Texas put together. Meaning the dealership is not the place where you find a unit you want and then spend a week thinking about whether or not you want to buy it, more often than not the unit will be gone by the time you get back. As far as salesmen not answering the phone...The best way to get a hold of one is to leave a voicemail or leave a message with a receptionist. PPL will frequently sell 15 units on a Tuesday, and there are only so many salesman. About 325k people visit PPl's lot every month, just like every other business the customer standing in front of you will always take priority over a phone call. Certain days of the week and times will greatly increase your likelihood of getting a hold of someone. Forget about getting a hold of anyone on Friday or Saturday, not saying you wont get called back, but you will have to leave a message and possibly wait a few hours for a call back. However if you call between 8:30am-3pm Mon-Thursday you stand a pretty good chance of getting a salesman on the phone. PPL also compensates it's salesman on an hourly rate and not on a commission system. Most customers see this as a positive because PPL never does high pressure sales. PPL salesmen will also be forthcoming with any information they have on a unit and when dealing with customers calling from out of state the salesmen are trained to be very objective to ensure customers do not waste money on travel. Even when dealing with customers in person, after the customer has seen the unit, most salesmen will walk back out to the unit with the customer and inspect the unit and show the customer any issues they find. PPL does offer an inspection and demonstration that the buyer can chose to pay for. The inspection is beyond what the salesmen will do as it addresses all the major RV components. The inspection does not cover structural aspects or the power train of a coach. But it does cover items like jacks, refrigerator, AC, range, oven, power steps, black water tank, grey water tank, plumbing, sewage system, trailer brake, propane system, inverter and converter. If any of the items checked in the inspection are found to be broken the seller is called with an estimate for the repairs. If the seller declines the repairs needed the buyer can walk from the deal or counter offer based on the information. The whole process is very similar to buying a house in alot of ways. PPL has been in the RV business for a long time, and have many return customers. PPL shoots straight and wants nothing more than satisfied buyers and sellers. I do truly apologize for the issues you have had thus far, I hope this was informative and I hope you give PPL another chance soon.May want to rethink a couple of your points. There is no way 325,000 people visit the lots every month. That would be over 10,000 a day. Impossible. My experience was very different from what you described, both from the point of view of the buyer and as a seller. I had consigned a 6 year old 45 foot Diesel Pusher. It never sold, and I never got a call from anyone. When I went to pick it up, I found it in about a 6 inches of mud. It was obvious it had been in that mud for some time, because weeds and moss had grown up into the engine compartment. Since the rig was only there for three months, I had to assume that was it's spot the entire time. When I went to pick it up, it was obvious there was a problem. It would not start. The batteries were dead, even though I was assured all rigs were started regularly. The issue turned out to be a control board for the engine had failed. Not the fault of PPL, but I was never informed there was a problem with the rig. With it unable to start, it was obvious there was no chance it could have ever sold. On top of that many knobs and buttons were missing. Apparently people walking though the rigs unattended felt that my rig was the perfect parts vehicle, or they felt they needed souvenirs from their visit. Since it took 3 days to fix the thing, I was there a often. NEVER did I see a salesperson helping anyone. Since I had nothing to do but wander, I tried to look at rigs. Many were packed so tightly together there was no way to enter them. I bet those owners had no idea there was no way their rigs would sell either. The only way to look at them were to get a non-existent salesperson to get a non-existent vehicle to pull them out so the doors could be opened. I found this to be the norm for fifth wheels and travel trailers. The sales board was full of sales, but the vast majority were rigs that were quite old. My guess the average sale rig was over 15 years old, especially in the motorhomes. Sure wish I had known that before I drove 1500 miles to place my much newer rig there. I learned my lesson, PPL is not for me. Well I am sure what dealership you were at but I am guessing it was Cleburne while the new lot was being paved. All the units are kept on a paved lot. I am sorry for the experience you and but I assure you that is not the common experience people have. PPL strives to work hard for our seller and our buyers. I was mistaken on the number, I had a brain fart...hahaha. At our Houston location we have about 32k people a month on the lot durring the summer and around 325k total every year. New Braunfels and Cleburne are much smaller than the flag ship houston location but they also get a ton of traffic. The vast majority of coaches we list sell within the first 30days. The ones that don't sell quickly are usually either priced to high by the seller or there is a condition issue. For higher priced Diesel pushers sometimes it just takes some time to find the right buyer as there simply aren't as many people that can spend 180k on a coach. As for the age of our units...we do sell units of all ages however in the last few years our average unit sold is between 2-6 years old.It was at the Houston Lot. It was parked on the row along the north? fence where all the Class A's were lined up. Mine was parked over the drain that collected all the mud and water from the rains and the washing of rigs. Total mud hole that had to be walked thru to view my $150,000 coach, and like you said, nobody to tell people to wipe their feet or whatever. I sold to a wholesaler for more than I would have netted had PPL been able to retail the unit after paying commission. As far as I could tell, PPL is strictly about getting the seller to agree consign it, and then PPL will forget about it until someone begs to buy it.
westernrvparkowner 09/10/16 06:23pm General RVing Issues
RE: Tiny houses.

Wife and I have been watching Tiny House Hunters on HGTV. Just don't get the tiny house movement. For what some of these are going for you could buy an awesone RV. JMHO Easy enough to understand; the people who like tiny houses want something quirky and cute and aren't particularly attracted to mass produced RVs and the squares they associate RVs with. What you would consider an awesome RV they might consider tacky and lacking warmth and individuality.That is pretty much the logic that was used by people who got into Ostrich Farming. It was the rage of rages, but I haven't run into too many Ostrich Millionaires lately. Did have a nice pair of boots at one time though, which is probably equivalent to having a nice tiny house playhouse for someone's children.
westernrvparkowner 09/10/16 04:42pm General RVing Issues
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