femuse
Southern Virginia
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Joined: 02/22/2003
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There seems to be little consensus regarding repair of polybutylene fresh water lines. Over time I've collected opinions that completely contradict each other and I'm having a hard time finding the middle ground.
I have a drip beneath the bathroom sink in my 1990 Airstream trailer and I am quite sure it was there when I bought it.
I'm nearly certain that it is at a Tee where the cold water line branches to the faucet. The fittings and tubing are of grey plastic - I believe that means polybutylene. This is not the time to attempt to replace all the lines in the trailer, so rather than launch into that, I'm going to attempt a permanent repair.
I suspect I'll need to replace only the Tee itself. I'll simply trim a half inch or so of the old tubing away to exposes fresh material and use the available slack to bring the lines back together. So the problems seems to be to determine what sort of fittings to use.
I know of Flare-it and the newer Flare-it Plus line, and I understand there are also barbs and possibly even brass fittings I might use. Unfortunately, it seems that people have negative things to say about all of these systems, making the choice a cr@p shoot.
I want this repair to be as permanent as possible so I can pick and choose the time when I scrap the entire system to replace it with something trustworthy.
So, here I am, seeking knowledgeable opinions.
Any thoughts?
Mike
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Jake & Alma
St. Catharines Ontario
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Joined: 01/03/2004
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Mike.
I'm not sure when the cross link poly came out, I expect sometime after 1990. The earlier plastics are not as good as the new cross link poly. The are many manufactours of cross link poly and they are all good, I use the compression type with a split ring and works even in 100psi plus pressure. Go to your local home depot/hardware store, they should have everything you need. The only difficulty is getting at everything and connecting to existing piping or fittings, hopfully they are threaded.
Jake
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bryanl
Reno, NV
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Joined: 12/25/2003
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The gray plastic pipe came under suspicion when fittings failed due to chlorine exposure over time. In an RV, this shouldn't be an issue. Poor installation of fittings with the flexing of travel can be an issue, though.
The Flair-it fittings work very well for repairs and fixing leaks from compression type fittings. You can use them on the newer PEX and even on copper as these are all sized by OD in water supply use.
To get even more confused, check these links
not all the same pdf
PEX FAQ
history of pex
also check the pexconnection.com for parts and pieces.
Note that PEX and PB are very similar in many respects, PEX is just more resistant to the Chlorine breakdown.
Bryan
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wesmitsi
Stillwater, OK
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Joined: 09/19/2002
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Use compression fittings. I used to live in a mobile home that had polybutylene pipes that were held together with metal bands clamped around each fitting. These failed regularly. The repairs made with compression fittings held OK.
2001 F250 PSD
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Brad01
NC
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This is the old style piping commonly referred to as Quest. It is also in my TT. I think that is actually just one brand name. I have installed/maintained 1000's of feet of it and have NEVER yet seen a failure in the pipe. The failures are ALWAYS at a fiting or if the pipe has been bent too sharply in a bend. The pipe is made to bend but it needs to be gentle bends or use a fitting to make a sharp bend. There were several class actions suits that resulted in this product being removed from the market. I believe (contrary to the lawyers) the pipe was fine but the plastic fittings and aluminum crimp rings were the faulty area. The brass fittings and copper crimp rings did not seem to be a problem, at least based on my experience and from talking to others. You won't be using the professional style crimp tool but they are VERY sensitive to bad crimps. The tool must be perpendicular to the pipe, PERIOD. You can imagine in cramped quarters that this is difficult to do sometimes resulting in poor crimps leading to premature failures. The obvious upside of this type plumbing is that it installs faster than rigid types and can be installed without connections being hidden in walls or other inaccesable locations.
As to your problem, you are exactly right; remove the bad fitting and buy a replacement at the local hardware/plumbing supply store. There are several types available to be used without the crimp tool, all some type of a compression design. Bulkier than the crimp style but work just fine. Be gentle when installing the new fitting and try not to allow the pipe to twist perhaps causing problems down the line at another joint. Be sure and buy the type made for this type tubing as it does vary slightly in size from some of the other types. Install it carefully, check for leaks and forget it. You will probably never need to consider it again. Hope this helps. Good luck.
2005 Chev 2500 PU CC 4x4 SB Duramax/Allison with ARE Camper Top
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Wife: (Jane) Artsy person and Haiku Poet that loves to camp
Son: Junior at NCSU
RV Usage Pre-2006:unknown, 2006:60 nights, 2007:53 nights
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Chris Bryant
DeLand, Florida, USA
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Joined: 03/26/2003
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I agree 100% with Brad- I've seen the fittings fail, but never the pipe itself- and I suspect a lot of the fitting failures were due to bad installation (they have go-nogo gauges that every crimp should be tested with.. wanna bet how many times they are used on a production line  ).
I would use the Flairit replacement fitting- much easier to install in a limited space, and I've yet to have one of them fail.
-- Chris Bryant
My RV Service Blog
The RV.net Blog
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gospel
Henderson N.C.
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Joined: 06/17/2003
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The pipe you have is called quest. The problem was with the fittings not the pipe Therefore you can nolonger buy the fittings. The replacement to quest is pex pipe. They make adapters to change from quest to pex. Use only the crimp kind, they will last a very long time. The type that has cone shape groments will usually leak after a few years in a house or mobile home and they are not shaken around like they will be in your travel trailer. I have a mobile home park and have never had any trouble with the crimp on kind. The crimp kind does requir a specil tool to install and they are about $100.00 You may be able to rent one at a local tool rental. Wher I live the local ace hardware rents them. Good luck.
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femuse
Southern Virginia
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Joined: 02/22/2003
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Thanks, I know about the crimping tool: it won't fit in such a tight space.
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Brad,
Your comments are consistent with my situation. The water is dripping from a point where a line meets a fitting. There is moderate stress on the lines where, they had to induce slight bends. I don't care for the way that looks, but I don't think it's actually a problem. I just think I rather see better planning and layout.
And thanks for the tips. Coming from some one with practical experience it means a lot. Also your vote of confidence regarding the likelihood that the existing tubing may still have life in it allows me to think I'm not throwing away my time and effort.
I had good luck when I installed our galley sink using brass compression fittings that included a brass sleeve that slipped into the tube to help it resist crushing. Do you have any opinion on that sort of fitting?
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Chris,
Interesting point regarding the use of the Go-no-Go gauges on the assembly line. Folks like to imagine craftsmen meticulously fitting these rigs together with love and patience. All I see evidence of a whip being cracked.
I've been looking at the flair-it fittings on the Net. They look like they are intelligently designed. It's good to hear that you've never seen one fail.
Thanks
Mike
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gospel
Henderson N.C.
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They make a small racheting type tool for tight places.
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Brad01
NC
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I have used several different types of no-crimp fittings when I was in a location where I didn't have room to do the crimper. The tool is about 18 inches long and when opened proablably is about 24" between the handles. This could really be at problem at times such as under a house or in a cabinet like an RV often is. I have never used the rachet type crimpers although I have seen them. I never had a problem with any of the compression style and suspect you won't either but I don't remember any specific brands/styles. The main reason I avoided them was cost because they are much higher than the crimp style and I already had the tool. The crimp style are also much faster to install. If I only needed to make an occassioanl repair and didn't own the tool, I would not bother renting one. Just use the compression style and move on. Try to have your fitting so the pipes are not in a bind at the fitting, ie: everthing at 180 or 90 degrees. Those binds at joints can be a problem. Sometimes you can slightly relocate the pipes to remove the bind at the fitting by letting the pipe bend slightly away from the fitting.
As for the go/no go tester, the crimper comes with one and I use it to be sure the tool is properly adjusted for crimp pressure occasionally and then don't use it to check every crimp. You know whether you have a good crimp or not with just minimal practice. Basically if the tool is at 90 degrees to the fitting, no problem. If the tool is not at 90 degrees to the fitting, it will leak shortly. No tool or tester will overcome poor technique. Sorry I wasn't much help to you this time. Good Luck!
* This post was
edited 02/10/04 02:55am by an administrator/moderator *
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