"The second way is the use of EGR plus a special “adsorber” catalyst material to soak up and break down remaining NOx molecules before they leave the tailpipe. Chrysler is the only heavy-duty pickup manufacturer in the segment to use this approach in its Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 trucks. The current 2007-09 6.7-liter Cummins six-cylinder diesel powertrain reached 2010 NOx emissions requirements three years early; it will carryover into 2010 and beyond without change in these models while Ford and GM are expected to update their next-generation diesel engines for 2010 using the last technology, below.
The third, and newest, approach is selective catalytic reduction using DEF. The urea-based solution (32.5 percent industrial urea and 67.5 percent deionized water) is held in a separate storage tank and injected as a fine mist into the hot exhaust gases. The heat turns the urea into ammonia that - when combined with a special catalytic converter - breaks down the NOx into harmless nitrogen gas and water vapor.
Like Ford and GM, Chrysler will use diesel exhaust fluid to scrub NOx from the exhaust but only in its new 2010 Dodge Ram 3500, 4500 and 5500 commercial Chassis Cabs.
The Dodge Ram Chassis Cabs use the same Cummins 6.7-liter diesel as the 2500 and 3500 pickups."
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Looks as though the 2010 Duramax and 2010 Ford diesel (whatever it will be) will be using a urea solution in the exhaust to reduce NOx. Dodge and Cummins have stated the already 2010 compliant 6.7L Cummins in the 2500 and 3500 pickups will not need a urea tank to be added to meet emissions, but the 3500, 4500, and 5500 C+C trucks will have a urea tank that requires refilling much like the Dmax and Ford systems. At least that's the way I read it...
I think the fact that urea is not required will be a bonus for the pickup owners. The article mentions the urea stuff will sell like fuel - $xx/gal, and you know what will happen...$xx will become $XXXXX when they find out you NEED it....
Also sounds like us cold weather folks are going to learn to hate using urea....
"DEF starts to freeze around 11 degrees, so heating lines are necessary to keep the fluid warm in very cold weather.
“It kind of goes from a liquid to a slush, like Jell-O, though it would take a long time to freeze an eight-gallon tank,” Mets said.
Heating lines, which use engine coolant, run through the DEF reservoir to warm it up when sensors in the tank determine DEF temperatures are too low.
It may take a long time for the engine to warm up in very cold conditions with sufficient extra-heat capacity to warm the DEF heating lines, especially if the truck is being used over short distances or idling. In that case, combustion temps will also be lower, reducing the amount of NOx created and requiring less or no DEF to clean the exhaust.
DEF fluid may need to be replaced in hot climates where a truck sees little to no use for extended periods. DEF slowly converts to ammonia around 120 degrees, and the process accelerates as temperatures rise.
Of key interest is what happens if the DEF tank runs dry? Chrysler says it will provide plenty of warning to drivers before the truck is prevented from restarting without a urea supply."
2010 F150 Super Cab XLT 5.4 4X4 Short Box
2010 18' Springdale Rugged Terrain
1988 Nortstar 8' pop up TC
Honda 2000 26th Marines RVN 69-70 Semper Fi M-14 was the only Woodstock I saw in 1969.
So this stuff freezes at 11 degrees. How nice, we have 6 months out of the year when temps dip below 11 degrees. I can only imagine the fun you'll have when its -40.
Fords V10 looks better and better every year.
04 Dodge 1 ton dually, Cummins, auto, quad cab, 4x4, SLT, Sport, Reese Titan V
04 Lance 1161, TV/DVD, high efficiency A/C, Honda EU2000
Greg B wrote: Fords V10 looks better and better every year.
..Exactly my thoughts. Newer diesels keep getting more and more complicated, get worse and worse mileage taking away one of the big advantages of diesel...Ford better be ready for a LOT of demand for their V10 engine. Especially if GM and Dodge don't ever wake up, and start offering a decent gasser alternative for the Ford V10.
Hmm, lets see, one wants to buy a new truck....You can spend $8,000 more for a diesel, all for the privilege of having to worry about things like DP filters, urea tanks, etc., and get very close to same mileage as a V10 gasser that has none of those things, and costs thousands less. Don't forget that V10 is much quieter and smoother, has fairly close to same towing power now as the new PSD, and fuel for it over the last couple years has been a good bit cheaper than diesel.
Wow, tough choice there, LOL. Like Greg said, Fords V10 is looking better and better, the way diesels are going.
Will & Angela
2 children that love camping, Stephen & Allison
2003 Ford Excursion V10 4x4 ("No Taxpayers were harmed by the makers of this truck")
2003 Thor Citation 33M, Hensley Arrow hitch, Brakesmart Brake Control Our Rig
Greg B wrote: Fords V10 looks better and better every year.
..Exactly my thoughts. Newer diesels keep getting more and more complicated, get worse and worse mileage taking away one of the big advantages of diesel...Ford better be ready for a LOT of demand for their V10 engine. Especially if GM and Dodge don't ever wake up, and start offering a decent gasser alternative for the Ford V10.
Hmm, lets see, one wants to buy a new truck....You can spend $8,000 more for a diesel, all for the privilege of having to worry about things like DP filters, urea tanks, etc., and get very close to same mileage as a V10 gasser that has none of those things, and costs thousands less. Don't forget that V10 is much quieter and smoother, has fairly close to same towing power now as the new PSD, and fuel for it over the last couple years has been a good bit cheaper than diesel.
Wow, tough choice there, LOL. Like Greg said, Fords V10 is looking better and better, the way diesels are going.
The V10 is done /finished / no more .
next year is the last year of production so stock up now.The replacement is the 6.2 and 5.0 .
Essex engine is making the 5.0 and I forget the 6.2 Cleveland ? or is that the ECO boost?
hone eagle wrote: The V10 is done /finished / no more .
next year is the last year of production so stock up now.The replacement is the 6.2 and 5.0 .
Essex engine is making the 5.0 and I forget the 6.2 Cleveland ? or is that the ECO boost?
Source for that info, please? I'm finding this VERY hard to believe, given everything I've read about Ford making the V10 run on other fuels in the future. Not to mention the huge market Ford has for the V10 in their F53 Motorhome chassis. I'd love to see them try and convince people that a 6.2 or 5.0 could handle 26,000 lbs of MH, lol.
If this IS true that the V10 is history after next year, I'll join in the prayer made by a previous poster, hoping that his truck lasts a loooong time.
* This post was
edited 03/11/09 08:31am by willald *
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