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 > What is the real SAE Certified Horsepower? Torque?

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Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/20/12 08:29am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NewsW wrote:

If there is interest, I will start a thread about comparing cabs / interior appointments rather than HP and Torque.


Sure, not much nicer than my limo!


2011 Ram Laramie Longhorn 3500 Dually Long Bed, Cummins 350/800 HO, Towin Machine
B&W Companion Hitch, Maghytec Trans and Rear Dif Covers, AMZ/OIL Top To Bottom
2007 1/2 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 27,000# Combined

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/20/12 08:35am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

jmtandem wrote:

Quote:

I agree!

I have not had anyone pass me on any grade with the same load 27,000k combined as me. West coast towing from western WA to SoCal. I even have 3:42 gears.

I know my engine will be going strong when the other two have died.

On that same course recently cal to wa I counted 10 RAM CUMMINS trucks hauling cars,pipe and RV's and one GM that tells me a lot!

Yea I am Cummins Loyal, the truck has been great too.




Understood! Those that have diesels need no convincing, those that don't will never understand.

I was reluctant to comment on this thread as it is worded in an almost negative way by the OP as to simply start a huge discussion that will end up benefitting nobody. I like threads that provide some benefit to the readers and are a genuine question or comment from the OP. Trolling just doesn't cut it with me. So like I said 'who cares'; the diesels of today are so powerful as to make the OP's question a moot point.


It matters.
It's built into the fabric of Americana. We keep score, and want to be associated with winners.
Imagine watching football without scoring and a winner..
Baseball, Basketball.....etc.
Being associated with a winner makes us feel good. In many industries, sales increase after the home town team wins. Everyone feels good about themselves and spends more..
Those that happen to be associated with the loser always try to rationalize why it doesn't matter.

But deep down inside, they know, that even though they will never admit it.....Winning matters....And they would much prefer that their team, company, child or truck be the winner.

It is so much a part of Americana that we will accept sports stars with horrible morals, arrest records etc. And pay them ridiculous salaries....So long as they WIN.

So no matter how often or loudly you say it...You are wrong.

Winning MATTERS.


Sorry Dude none of that matters to me never has never will.

Proof is in the real world. HMMMM what does Ford use in their F650-750 trucks you got it Cummins.

Just drove by an ambylance/ tow truck upfitter they had all Dodge Cummins Not Ford.

Cummins rated 350,000k Ford 250,000 and GM less.

Why are the VAST majority of RV haulers, car haulers and pipe and ? Driving RAM CUMMINS?

Like I said my truck will be standing when the Ford is in the shop with the cab off and the GM on the side of the road.

Drive whar you want I do and I have a legend backing me up.


So you are saying that you wouldn't be happier if your Cummins had the most power?
Of course you would. Nobody likes to lose.


I really don't care who says who has more power.

My truck with 3:42 gears and 27,000 # combined pulled the Grapevine at 55 or more on a several mile 6 percent gade. I have never had a single rv with the kind of load I have pass me yet and I tow at 60. If I had 4:10 gears I am sure I would not sow down from 60 on the 6 percent grades. Also I get an honest 9.5. If people are honest they will tell you that is what they get with that kind of load.

My truck on the Dyno hit 304 rwhp out of 350 advertised the Ford from BD only did 321 out of 400. False advertising, I think so.

Real world, Real world, Real world!





I bet if your Ram could retain the Cummins name on its side you would be even happier if it had a Powerstroke under its hood.


It just would not sound right! Just gotta have that deep growl when it is in the zone pullin a load.

jmtandem

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Posted: 07/20/12 08:35am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

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In all fairness, GM won fair and square in the horsepower and torque race.

And this is from a Ford owner.

Now, I may prefer the other brands for other reasons... but that is another race, isn't it.



* This post was last edited 07/06/13 03:41pm by jmtandem *   View edit history


'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed.
'09 299bhs Tango.

jmtandem

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Posted: 07/20/12 09:28am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

Look at the trucks that are used for profit or people that have been around the block most drive Cummins. Real world long term durability. SoCal to NW WA I saw 10 RAM Cummins pulling loads for a living and one GM. Usually I see a couple Fords.



* This post was edited 07/06/13 03:41pm by jmtandem *

travelnutz

West Michigan - On the Lakeshore

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Posted: 07/20/12 09:24am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98,


Mostly GM's and Fords pulling loads for a living here in the Midwest and also in the S.E USA and the East Coast. The majority of the USA's 315 million population location. Simply put, just need only look at the yearly sales figures of pickup trucks for all 3 manufacturers even if for only the last 10 years of the last 50 year's sales and the numbers tell the tale very clearly. Only one in seven one the Big 3 pickups sold was a Dodge or Ram and far less were sold with a Cummins engine. We travel a lot and it's so obvious that you can't miss it. Note! Can't be on the road even in equal numbers if they weren't even sold in reasonably comparative numbers of vehicles when new. One out of seven is not even close and it shows! You may attempt to remove your blinders and really take a look as 10 to 1 and NO Fords tells me you exaggerated beyong belief or making it up wildly. Dream on my boy!


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Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/20/12 08:48am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jmtandem wrote:

Quote:

In all fairness, GM won fair and square in the horsepower and torque race.

And this is from a Ford owner.

Now, I may prefer the other brands for other reasons... but that is another race, isn't it.



In a real world non scientific windshield survey two weeks ago on a round trip between Reno and Spokane/Coeur d' Alene Idaho (approximately 1600 miles) about 80 percent of those towing heavy fifth wheels on the road including triple axle towyhaulers were towing with Fords or Dodges. I guess all the Ford and Dodge guys did not realize that the independent lab testing said that they should be driving a GM to be a 'winner'. It speaks volumes when eighty percent of the real world RV towing folks ignore the independent lab testing numbers. And to think that all those Dodge and Ford drivers are not 'winners' because they are not driving a GM with the D'max engine. Tell them that and see what reaction you will get!!!


Look at the trucks that are used for profit or people that have been around the block most drive Cummins. Real world long term durability. SoCal to NW WA I saw 10 RAM Cummins pulling loads for a living and one GM. Usually I see a couple Fords.

Huntindog

phoenix arizona USA

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Posted: 07/20/12 06:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NewsW wrote:

What is rather interesting is how people who demand high output engines seem to be oblivious to how it impacts Brake Specific Fuel Consumption.

In other words, it cost a lot more to generate a given quantity of horsepower at max. output relative to low to mid output / rpms.


A saying from my days on a sprintcar race team...
"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"


Huntindog
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BenK

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Posted: 07/20/12 11:16am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jmtandem wrote:

Quote:


It matters.
It's built into the fabric of Americana. We keep score, and want to be associated with winners.
Imagine watching football without scoring and a winner..
Baseball, Basketball.....etc.
Being associated with a winner makes us feel good. In many industries, sales increase after the home town team wins. Everyone feels good about themselves and spends more..
Those that happen to be associated with the loser always try to rationalize why it doesn't matter.

But deep down inside, they know, that even though they will never admit it.....Winning matters....And they would much prefer that their team, company, child or truck be the winner.

It is so much a part of Americana that we will accept sports stars with horrible morals, arrest records etc. And pay them ridiculous salaries....So long as they WIN.

So no matter how often or loudly you say it...You are wrong.

Winning MATTERS


It might matter to you, it doesn't to me. I don't see how winning towing an RV is any more or less than getting to where you want to go safely and with enough power to get the job done. This is not the Tour de France or a football game. It is taking the RV to the lake and having fun with it.

All I care about as related to power is that when the 'bridge' asks the engine room for more power, it is there. And when that turbo diesel starts doing what it loves to do and the hill has been flattened, then it is all a winner for me. What the actual numbers say from some independent lab is meaningless. The only thing that matters is real world seat of the pants power. How many of us climbing a mountain towing will cite the independent labs certified torque numbers as we are watching the scenery go by. Most of us are watching how many others we are passing on the climb. That is where the real numbers are.


X2, agree with jmtandem


Wow.... Winning MATTERS....amazing and so real world
that the OEMs have figured out that so many 'think' RV'ing is a game
of losers and winners !?!?!

"King of the Hill" ratings to those who do not believe in ratings and
tell everyone/anyone to 'go for it' to those who won't believe that ST
tires have a 65MPH speed rating, 'Mines bigger than yours', etc, etc

Amazing and now wonder if it's only testosterone or do the estrogen
side likewise...

PS...will admit to a bit of that 'cuz a church member was a constant
irritant to the rest of us with +8K GVWR TVs vs his superior Sequoia
with the DOC, higher rev'ing, more HP than any of us, meanest and
baddest TV towing his around 28 footer

This is where I flushed a charge of Mobil 1 Synthetic after that +500
mile trip from sea level to Lake Tahoe. Noticed the diesels up ahead
(yeah, they are normally up front) started to pull away at each passing
lane section...AH...showing that Sequoia how it really is...so I nailed
it towing my +8.5K boat/trailer

Someone back there in the pack called to say this guy was going out
onto the 'other' lane and getting stuck creating a hazard.

His wife later yelled at my wife that we ruined his truck, even though
he would NOT admit to anything.

Neighbors son worked at that Toyota dealership as a master ASE and told
me he had a to replace the automatic and diff...he now has a Landcruiser
that he thinks is bigger, badder than the Sequoia...

* This post was edited 07/20/12 11:23am by BenK *


-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

NewsW

US

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Joined: 02/06/2012

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Posted: 07/20/12 12:03pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What is rather interesting is how people who demand high output engines seem to be oblivious to how it impacts Brake Specific Fuel Consumption.

In other words, it cost a lot more to generate a given quantity of horsepower at max. output relative to low to mid output / rpms.

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/20/12 10:25am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

travelnutz wrote:

Cummins12V98,


Mostly GM's and Fords pulling loads for a living here in the Midwest and also in the S.E USA and the East Coast. The majority of the USA's 315 million population location. Simply put, just need only look at the yearly sales figures of pickup trucks for all 3 manufacturers even if for only the last 10 years of the last 50 year's sales and the numbers tell the tale very clearly. Only one in seven one the Big 3 pickups sold was a Dodge or Ram and far less were sold with a Cummins engine. We travel a lot and it's so obvious that you can't miss it. Note! Can't be on the road even in equal numbers if they weren't even sold in reasonably comparative numbers of vehicles when new. One out of seven is not even close and it shows! You may attempt to remove your blinders and really take a look as 10 to 1 and NO Fords tells me you exaggerated beyong belief or making it up wildly. Dream on my boy!


I never mentioned sales, but since you did Ram has been making gains in the DIESEL catagory. Why would that be? I would say proven durability. Yes GM has come a long way, Ford has a long way to go to have a proven engine.

Sorry to disagree but the majority of people who use their trucks to haul cars/rv's etc are RAM CUMMINS. Ambulances and tow trucks are now going with RAM CUMMINS not Fords in droves.

No exageration here just tellin what I see traveling Americas Highways.

Nice way to end your reply, thanks!

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