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RE: Oh man, it got me too!!
Other leak prone areas are the large cab-over window in the front and the running lights. IMO the front window should never be there and I ordered our Tc without one. "L" is now offering their TC's without one. The running lights can be resealed and addressing the roof seam with Eternabond should fix most if not all of the common leak areas. Around vents too with Eternabond is a good idea.
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AllenF
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10/05/09 03:33pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Oh man, it got me too!!
Sorry for your bad news. It is truly heartbreaking to see your baby in this condition. It is also a lot of work or money to get it back to where it was new. Sadly that is not where it needs to be. It needs to address the leaking better than new, as new leaks. Redesigning is hard and fraught with trial and error. If it was easy then "L" would be doing it at the factory. Eternabond can solve some of the leaking issues.
These wood framed TC's are a handful when they get wet for a while. Folks think the L's are the best but I think they are like all the rest. Average at best.
As for seals and water leaks. They may look fine but often there is a razor thin crack or spot where the seal is not touching the one side and that is where the water works it's way in. When you look at your seals, if you see a darker line in the caulking it is most likely a crack. The fine dust has mixed with the water and found it's way into the crack. If you wipe this area clean with a damp cloth the seal will clean up leaving the thin black line behind. This is a crack and should be re-sealed ASAP. Where the roof and the end-caps meet is a real problem area. Use Eternabond 4" wide tape here on a dry and thoroughly cleaned seam. It will last 15 years.
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AllenF
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10/05/09 03:28pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: OUCH! Ford/GM/Dodge sales
Just looked at the Ford stock prices.....$6.84 per share. Not sure where you got the $1.71 price?
I came from a GM type of guy thing and bought our 2005 F-350 in my sig. It has been the BEST truck I have EVER owned. Since I have had such good results with it I bought a 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid . Loved it. After it was totalled by a drunk driver, we were not hurt, I replaced it with the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. I wanted more MPG's. I got them. :) In the hybrid cases I think Ford has the best in their class hybrids in the American market. Toyota may have the sales but if those folks looked at both they would see that Fords Hybrids are better in MPG's in their class, and refinement and Fords hybrid drivetrain is Taxi tested tough. Unlike Toyota's. Ford Escape Hybrids are up to 300,000+ miles now in taxi service, with no major failures just the usual maintenence.
I can get about 52MPG on the freeway with the AC off at 65 mph. It is rated by the Feds at 36mpg. This Ford Fusion Hybrid is in the Prius mpg's area and is way more comfortable and quiet. We love it. While made in Mexico it still supports more USA jobs and this is EXTREMLY important to me. If we have no jobs, who will buy from me my products and services? We need to see the big picture. Chinese stuff is not cheaper since it costs us jobs and ruins our economy. They don't need to invade they are ruining our economy and will beat us into the ground with our own hands. And we will continue to line up for more.
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AllenF
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10/02/09 02:52pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Pics\Plans of Self Made camper ??
Put a curving tube on either end and it would look like the Oscar Mayer Wiener-mobile. :)
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AllenF
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09/28/09 12:58pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: In a pickle
In a TC there are several things one needs to consider when camping in cold and even sub-freezing temps.
The first is the insulation of the TC. As others have said it is far easier and cheaper to work on the insulation envelope than to ignore it and add devices to overcome the heat losses through the floors, walls, ceiling and vents/skylights.
I posted a couple of years ago while in -9*F temps in Idaho I found the TC to be cold and drafty and uncomfortable. The water lines froze to the rear dry bath and the insulation was non existing in several areas. In -9*F you can find the cold areas in a heart beat as the cold air drops and can be felt with your hand/arm very easily.
To recap here are some areas to look at. The TC vents need the foam pads stuffed into them in all that will not be used. Yes it will be darker but it will be far warmer and this is needed more than light. Use the bubble reflective insulation on the windows and vents that you may want to open or in the case of the Wave use you will be opening a vent and air will flow between the gaps in the insulation and the vent frame it is attached too. Don't open the vent more than a 1/4-1/2 inch as the opening will be too large and cause the TC to cool too much.
In nearly all TC's the wing area, that is the part that extends over the pickup bed side and goes horizontally out to form with the wall outside of the PU bed, is made of 3/4" plywood and has ZERO insulation. If you have a slide or cabinets here you should be able to reach inside the cabinets or under the slide and add some insulation here. If you have openings for the power cord and the outside shower the inside of these boxes need to be insulated too. I found that the small box that holds my power cord, about 10"x10"x4", allowed so much cold to come through, but no real leaks, that in -9*F it felt like a large open window. Wrap this box, if you can, on the inside and it will go a long way to reducing heat loss.
Every area must be addressed as the smallest area ignored will leak heat and since the interior volume of a TC is so small it will cool the TC down quickly.
Bathroom skylights or other skylights are huge heat robbers. You will need to have a custom foam block made to insulate these. Once foam plugs are wedged into these skylights there will be a huge warm gain noticed.
Look at your refer cut out and the side walls which are just some paneling on the inside with no insulation. Insulate here also. The refer cabinet floor too if you can. Don't forget your propane bottle cabinet and the battery box. In the case of the battery box try to insulate the outside door as it would help them to be warmed from the inside warmth. Here is where AGM batteries, not needing to be vented, come into play. Look for any gaps where pipes or wires route through walls or floors as these also add up and could easily be as large as an open vent in volume.
I think you get the idea.
TC's are build like so much junk by folks who may be well meaning or not. Since we see how shoddy the work they did was, it falls to us to fix it. Cold weather insulating and repair is vital to attain comfortable cold weather camping. It will be hard to do well as some areas are not easily reached and may not be reachable at all. All one can do is the best one can and hope it is enough. Once ALL the reachable areas are insulated and it is still too cold then the next step is to add a heat source to over power the heat loss of the TC.
Sadly you are now entering uncharted territory. Each TC brand and model is different. How well you did in insulating will require less heat to be added to reach a comfortable level and this is also unique to each users needs. One mans comfort is another woman's cold. :)
I would think that a WAVE 3 on high should be fine for a tightly insulated TC down to about 20*F but as yet I have not tested this. If your TC is large like mine and has a slide this may not be large enough. I have the Wave 3 and will find out if I made a wrong choice. If it is really cold and you have a slide-out try leaving the slide-out in over night. It should be warmer for two reasons.
1) there is less surface area exposed to the weather and the seals will be better sealed and doubled up.
2) there is less interior volume to heat and to radiate heat to the outside.
If you cannot function inside the TC with the slide in you could hang a thick blanket up as a wall cutting off the slide out area and thus reduce the interior volume a bit and reduce potential drafts.
I know this is a lot of work. In a perfect world the builder would have done this for us. But since this is not the case look at it as a challenge and remember it is only something you have to do once. It will also make your TC a bit quieter and cooler in the summer as well.
Having the TC well insulated may also be far cheaper than buying more batteries to run the furnace more and getting a bigger AC unit too. Using less energy is good for the environment and your wallet. But the biggest return is it will allow you to boondock longer without having to break camp for more propane or gas for the genny.
Better insulation is passive it requires you to do nothing but enjoy it's warming or cooling effects. :)
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AllenF
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09/28/09 12:41pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Camper Death? Part II
Well If you think AF needs to learn a few things about RV building you would be right. They had a big issue a few years back with their VERY iffy hold down brackets. But here is the mother of all issues. Fat Fox has shown us all the short cuts and well there is no way these guys should even be in business.
Usually you think heavy is strong, but not at AF. They have devised an new way to build that is both heavy and weak.
Sorry for your heart ache and your headache. Wood can hold up to water IF it is properly treated to deal with the water. RV's are not treated in any way.
So all they can do is rot. What surprises me is how FatFox could not smell the mold and mildew. It had to be pretty funky in that TC with all that rot going on.
One area that we should look at first is the cabover cabinet floors in the front two corners or if you don't have any cabinets then the lower front two corners where the mattress meets the nose at the floor of the cabover. Water tends to leak out/puddle here and the water stains are easily found on the carpet or mattress or sheets.
I am not sure the Filon will be salvageable. If not you could look into using aluminum. When I was costing materials for my custom TC I found it to be much less $$$ and far easier to work with and ship. It bends real easy too. Just a thought.
Keep us informed and keep taking pictures. I am quite certain that other AF owners will be following in your footsteps soon. :(
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AllenF
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09/24/09 03:54pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: New Super Duty Diesel on the Horizon
Not sure what this has to to with the thread topic. :(
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AllenF
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09/13/09 04:14pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: New Super Duty Diesel on the Horizon
Wow a lot of wind found blowing here. :)
I would not go with ANY of the big 3 diesels due to the up front costs. This new Ford diesel is almost $10,000 more over a gasser. That my friends is a lot of unleaded. Add in the untested aspect and the resale will drop like a lead balloon. I am sooo happy I have what I have now. IMO it is the last best Ford or for that matter anyone's body style and the MPG's are better than the 6.4L. The 6.8L will be even worse after you add in the urea costs.
But the same goes for new TC's as well. Man a year after we bought ours the costs just jumped by thousands. Even in this awful economy new TC's are crazy pricey. The new trucks are just as bad.
I will watch this engine as I do with most things and GM and Dodge will need to change some things too. I feel for folks who are now looking at a fresh start. It is a lot bleaker than it was in 2005 when we bought our truck and TC combo. I could not be happier about our costs versus today's.
Oh and that $10,000 buy in for the diesel will go a long way on campin costs too. Ford's V10 is a screaming deal next to the 6.4L or the new 6.8L diesel.
It never hurts to look at all of your options.
Sure it sucks to get less mpgs and having to stop more often but man these diesels are priced out of this world. My guess is they don't want you to buy one hence the high price to play.
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AllenF
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09/03/09 06:21pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: TC Pass thru window
Ours does not leak and the carpet would be quick to let us know if it does as it would be soggy and moldy smelling and it is neither.
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AllenF
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08/30/09 04:11pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Dually VS SRW....I was in Horror Driving my SRW Truck
Jim thanks for your vote that a DRW truck will handle the same TC better than a SRW truck. That is our point and most if not all have proven it to ourselves as we have done it both ways. Those who resort to band aides on SRW trucks will end up spending more $$$$ and still have a truck that carries and handles the TC worse than the DRW truck.
As was posted above SRW trucks are fine when PROPERLY matched with a lighter and smaller TC. Sadly this is rarely the case. Hence why there are so many horror stories.
When it comes to larger TC's DRW trucks are the last work in travel enjoyment.
If you notice the latest trend, more are moving into the F450/550 truck as these folks want to haul a multi slide TC and haul a boat or trailer. This is also what is need to have a balanced load and hauling without over loading the truck.
The larger multi slide TC should only go on a F450/550 as these will swamp a F350 unless it is a stripper, DRW, single cab, gasser. Few here are willing to go this route.
Want to have some fun?
All of you SRW and DRW folks go weigh your rigs, first empty bed without the tail gate and full of fuel with your butt and anyone else's you take along in the cab. Next load the TC and weigh it again with the water full or at lest 1/2 full with full propane and the usual stuff you take with you. Compare this last number with your truck builders GVWR and now the ugly truth comes to light. All the air bags and sway bars and springs kits can not make the GVWR go up. This is what you really weigh and if it is over the GVWR you are over. Plain and simple. If not welcome to the world of RESPONSIBLE HAULING. It is a small club but one filled with truly happy and responsible campers.
Folks are you up to the truck and TC weigh in challenge?
I started I am 150 LBS under GVWR. I know I did the right thing for me and mine and all the others out there sharing the road with me.
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AllenF
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08/30/09 12:14pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Replacement fuel tanks
Just one thought about adding more fuel. It also adds weight to your rig. So 20 gal extra is about 160lbs more plus the weight of the tank. This would be totalled about 200 lbs more weight. subtract this from your GVWR just like you would for any load.
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AllenF
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08/29/09 03:40pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Dually VS SRW....I was in Horror Driving my SRW Truck
GVWR is the max the manufacturer recommends. My 2005 F-350 CC Dually is 13,000lbs. Next step is remove the tail gate(don't use this when the TC is in the bed) fill up with fuel and add the folks you will be taking with you and this will give you your truck weight. Subtract from the GVWR and this is your hauling max number. Armed with this number you have a BALL PARK # for the TC wet and loaded weight. TC manufacturers are the worst but many here have weighed their rigs so we can see the different manufacturers trends. In my case the EC 1150 slide was pretty close. Depending on options that you must add or subtract from the total you can get pretty close to what your final GVWR will be.
As I said before ours is about 150 lbs under (this is actual weight from a truck scale, not from some paper or builder spec.). IMO not to bad since I bought our TC sight unseen as there are no so.cal dealers. I did see a lot of pictures and knew enough about EC TC competition to know I did not want any of them. That and they were a lot heavier than the EC1150 slide. All in all I am very happy. Better still so is Mama. But as with all TC builders there are quality issues that need to be reworked. I had hoped for less of them but sadly I got about the average in this department. Since the EC was about $10,000 less and EC was willing to make a few custom changes/additions I, IMO, made out like a bandit. Less weight, full fiberglass siding, aluminum frame, lots of water, and a dry bath, plus a huge custom 9.5 cu ft refer. Saving $10,000. Sweet.
I drive my truck for my business so parking is a challenge more due to it's length than it's width. It is the biggest Crew cab with a full size bed. U turns are nearly impossible but with the back up sensors 3 point back ups are a breeze. Once the TC is in the bed a DRW truck is just as narrow as a SRW truck. If you are challenged at parking then an empty DRW truck will add a bit of parking grief. Me?, I am so used to driving this one that I see it as a compact. My wife is amazed at how easily I park it and get it into and out of places. Just a side point, once the TC is in the bed the driving is the same as empty just a lot taller. So I don't sweat the width just the height. She has never driven it as I do all the driving and she is fine with that. She likes to nap on the boring parts or look at all the pretty scenery as it goes by. Me?, half of the fun is the drive.
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AllenF
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08/28/09 03:04pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Dually VS SRW....I was in Horror Driving my SRW Truck
Just wondering AllenF, when's the last time you checked your tire temp? Also, have any idea how much you are over you trucks recommended camper weight capacity? I'm fairly certain you're over although I could be wrong.
I have posted before. I am about 150 lbs under my trucks GVWR. Truck is rated at 13,000 lbs I am at 12,850lbs All loaded with full fuel, 3 adults and their gear, full propane and fresh water too.
So I guess that means you would be wrong. As for tire temps I have never measured, but since I am not over but rather under I see little need. I have hauled in Death Valley at +115*F and Idaho in -9*F. My tires are the first ones that the factory installed. I have rotated them once as on a dually it is a pain and the need is IMO not that great if one is within load limits as I am. I have 52,000+ on the BFG Ford factory installed tires. IIRC these tires are 40,000 mile tires although they may be 50,000 mile tires. Either way I have enjoyed more than what they should give. Never had a flat either. Bet you can guess what will be going back on at replacement time.
I started like most with a 1 ton Chevy gasser and thought why not add a TC. Boy did I learn how bad a stock 1 ton can handle. Sure I could have done the Band-aide things but I also needed a crew cab so a dually was on the list. Next truck was a Chevy 1 ton dually crew cab. Night and day difference in every driving condition. Never looked back. Next time I chose to go the truck and TC route I researched about 6 months as I knew what was needed to get a well balanced rig. Bought what is in my sig. Best running truck I have EVER had and the TC is also the right weight for the truck and handles like a dream. Best mpg's too. Yes I did have to do the math, no flying blind or WAG's or assuming for me. I knew from the math what I needed and looked for these things in both the truck and the TC. Fords in 2005 had the highest GVWR and the biggest brakes and the thickest frame steel. Our EC 1150 slide is the only large slide that will not overload our truck. (Any other comparably equipped brand GM and Dodge would have been over loaded with the EC1150 slide fully wet and loaded). This was of paramount importance to me and the safety of my family and those on the road with me. Others are far less concerned here as is evidenced by there rig choices. I try to give them a little wider berth.
Those who do the math and know .....KNOW.
Those who don't do the math don't know and resort to ......JUSTIFACATION and EXAGGERATION.
I fully understand not knowing that math is involved and also being where you are on the path to knowledge. But many here have shown through experience and math what is right WITHOUT exaggeration. It boils down to reading and doing. Shoot, the math has already been done by others.
In other words want a big old TC then get a truck that can mathematically handle it. Or keep your current truck and scale back a bit to the TC that weighs what the truck can haul by the math.
Eazy Peazy.
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AllenF
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08/27/09 01:19pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Rain free ventilation for your sliding window in bedroom
Fishwar
Ours does have a screen. Interesting that yours does not.
Sukrfish
If your dog has figured it out about the pass through window it will figure out the other open window too. Problem is that you won't know it until it has jumped out. At 65mph this would not turn out well at all.
You can put a wood dowel in the window track to stop it from opening wider but dogs have great paws with claws and they can rip through anything if they want to bad enough.
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AllenF
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08/26/09 09:29am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Dually VS SRW....I was in Horror Driving my SRW Truck
When I fully loaded I'm pushing the rear tire weight limits. Does anyone think that a stock truck loaded to the limit and not a pound over any limitation, but with run out OEM tires, worn brake pads and out of alignment is safer than a modified truck with better tires, rims, and shocks? And yes of course I realize there are other factors at play too such as axle limits, geometry, CG etc. - the point is to apply a little common sense. And yes, yes, I know that no matter what I do to modify the truck it won't change the door post sticker...
I find that when one wants to do a thing that is not truly wise, they always resort to extreme exaggeration to some how minimize their situation in the eyes of on lookers, as well as make them feel better.
These justifications are also devoid of the common sense that in fact is not that common at all.
If your looking for folks to tell you you are fine then here you go ...
You are fine. Have a nice day.:W
Feel better now? :h
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AllenF
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08/26/09 08:52am |
Truck Campers
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RE: DC to AC converter
The gray scrolling bar is called a hum bar. It is also in audio the 60 cycle hum you hear softly in the background through your speakers.
This is a ground issue as has been pointed out. It can be a bear to eliminate. It is caused by a ground voltage differential. Tying grounds together to even out the voltages will help it go away. You can also buy transformers which act as filters to eliminate these bars as well. A good audio/ video shop should be able to fix it. Better car stereo shops should too.
If you have video/audio cables running parallel with 120volt AC power cords they can pick up these hum bars. They must be separated by 8 to 12 inches or crossed at 90* so as not to pick up hum bars.
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AllenF
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08/25/09 04:01pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Rain free ventilation for your sliding window in bedroom
What i have found is the window in the front pass through area is covered in the rain and can be opened with no water getting in. If you have a Maxxair type vent fan then you will stay dry and still have all the fresh air you could want.
Opening the pass through window is free if you have one. I have yet to find a TC without one.
Just another option.
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AllenF
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08/25/09 03:23pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: AGM Battery Recommendation
Blue top is 75 amps and the Sears/Odyssey are 100 amps for the grp 31 type battery. The Optimas are smaller and about 6 lbs lighter. So if weight were the biggest factor I guess you could go with the blue tops.
Since power is why we do this type of upgrade the Sears/ Odyssey would be what I would do. The hardest one should discharge to is 50%. You would have 50 usable amps verses 37 1/2. That's about 30% more per battery. If you could live with the 37 1/2 amps then you would be discharging less than 50% and this would help the battery last longer. About 20% longer life. Batteries don't like deep discharges or wild temp swings (room temps preferred).
When it comes to batteries one must do some math. It is just the way it is. :(
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AllenF
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08/25/09 03:18pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: northern light Norcold Refrigerator problem
My guess is that once the vent cover gets reinstalled there will be a slight increase in actual temps. Another thing to consider is a small battery powered fan that goes inside the refer. I have used these in the past and they work great. A lot less work and can be bought most anywhere.
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AllenF
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08/25/09 03:05pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Truck Campers- the good, the bad and the horrible?
Just remember to do your math correctly.
As a lifetime member of the weight police I encourage all noobs to work at not being over weight in the bed of their trucks.
Most if not all here who are over weight are in that situation due to buying a truck and often, as an after thought, next buying a TC. Rather than doing their homework they either listened to the RV salesman who said no problem in his attempt to off load that TC on the lot that the customer in his ignorance just had to have or unknowingly assumed "hey I got this big 3/4 ton truck I can carry anything". In both cases this is totally wrong.
When you approach a project like you are now with a clean sheet of paper you are in a far better postion to assemble a rig that is well balanced and does not need to be overloaded at all.
Properly loaded trucks last longer and are far cheaper to setup an handle far better in the wind and on winding roads. You will not need to buy expensive wheels and air bags and such. Trying to make a smaller truck work ends up costing much more than just buying the 1 ton truck to start with.
As others have said pick your TC first then match it with your proper truck.
Now that you have the best advice go the final step and follow it. We here have been there and done that. If you work with this advice you too will in effect be one who has been there and done that without any added cost or grief.
The single biggest issue you will find is water intrusion/leaks. Since all TC's are made with a lot of wood, water causes a lot of the costly repairs. You have suffered living in a leaking tent and no longer want to deal with this. Imagine a leaking TC with less water friendly materials in the cabover bed getting soaked. Mama is not going to be a happy camper.
Experience has shown that a cabover front window will leak sooner or later often within a year or 2 after it is sold. TC's without this window are dryer and warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. Try to find one without this front window.
While dry baths are nice they eat up a large amount of space. In smaller TC's wet baths are almost the only choice. Gray tank storage is as important as fresh water capacity. You should have at a min 25 gallons of gray tankage.
Look your prospective TC over with a flashlight into every nook and cranny. In the cabinets in the cabover for water staining and or mold. If you see it move on or make the seller drop his price by at least 1/2. Trust me you will be spending that saved money on labor and repairs. Have a Sealtech leak finding test done as a final test before buying. If it leaks look for damage and if none found have it recaulked at the owner expense or have him drop his price accordingly.
That should get you started. Oh one last thing if you can, have the TC weighed full of fresh water, propane and allow about 300 lbs per person. With this number go pick a truck that can handle it. Not sure, start another thread with your TC choice and ask for input on what truck can haul it.
Have fun!
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AllenF
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08/23/09 08:56am |
Truck Campers
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