Has anybody stayed at the Kinzua East KOA in Allegheny State Park?...
There is a KOA in a state park? I've never seen that.
I had to look it up. I have stayed at Allegany (different spelling) State Park in New York. The Kinzua KOA is in the area of Allegheny National Forest of Pennsylvania. Had me confused for a bit. :B
My bad. Sorry about that. It was late. Corrected on edit.
Has anybody stayed at the Kinzua East KOA in Allegheny National Forest? Is it a nice place? We tried to get an online map of the park, but it's not available. Would appreciate any first hand opinions.
I cannot go beyond F150HD because our garage is already too small - F150 will fit with less than an inch to spare... Yikes.
As a fellow Canadian...Only crazy people actually park a vehicle in their garage. It's for storing junk, an extra beer fridge, BBQ'ing in the rain....just about anything other than parking a vehicle. Especially a truck. Get a bigger truck, park it outside, and get the trailer you really want. Speaking from experience, the extra cost of a 2500 or 3500 is the best money you will ever spend.
Had an 05 Dodge 2500 with a Hemi. Great engine, but not enough for a fiver. My 06 Cougar was about 10K lbs, and we were definitely under powered. Turning 4000 RPM going through VA and KY you could watch the fuel gauge drop. I've got the 6.7 CTD now, and there is no going back.
Hemi might be OK under 8K loaded, but that's really the realistic limit.
Get the diesel and you'll have no regrets.
As just another forum member, I am most pleased that you posted back to let us know that this company stepped up to the plate and made it right. You could have, likely as not gone on about your merry way and left the impression that they didn't care. Thanks for the up-date!
I think it's important to give credit where credit is due. This forum has helped me a lot over the years to make decisions about what I will and will NOT purchase. Any company can make a bad unit. What's important is how they deal with it after the fact. A lot of the big companies will just try to duck responsibility. In this case, I feel like I'm being valued as a customer, and I also feel like KZ cares about how the rest of this forum regards them. They have done the right thing (so far) and that needs to be recognized.
so no more burned hole in the floor
Yep, they fixed that too. I told them I didn't want those quick connectors in the electrical line, and they got rid of those too. I'll let you know how things are when we pick it up, but I have a good feeling. The response was right.
Just before Christmas I posted a rant on here about how upset I was with the quality of our new KZ fiver. It's true, we did have a variety of problems that cropped up on our maiden voyage, and because it was before Christmas, we had very little recourse. However, on January 2nd I was able to get a hold of KZ, and after explaining my situation was put in touch with a gentleman by the name of Mark Owens.
Wow! Did these guys respond. I won't go into the full details of our problems, but a few minor problems led to a large number of troubles, and when we finally said, "No more", we called KZ direct. In less than an hour, they agreed that we had valid warranty issues and arranged with the dealer closest to us (we were in St. Augustine Forida at the time) to take the unit in and have it transported back to the factory in Shipshewana. They even helped defer expenses related to our trip back to Canada without the trailer.
Once back at the factory, we were asked to fill out a form detailing every problem we had, and then they fixed it. There was no attempt to duck responsibility and no stone-walling. Just a very simple acknowledgement that the unit had some factory defects, and then very quickly fixed. I'm impressed. I think we have all read horror stories about how other manufacturers have responded to peoples complaints. This was handled responsibly, respectfully, and professionally.
We will pick the repaired unit up a few weeks from now in Indiana, when the weather gets nicer, and at that time will have the chance to see the actual repairs. But based on the service report that was sent back to me, they have done everything we asked, and made no attempt to deflect responsibility.
I think that speaks volumes about the kind of company that KZ is. It's this kind of response that will keep us coming back.
There's been much talk of letting the rig burn to the ground, and also of demanding a refund or a new unit. Trust me....these have all gone through my mind. Let me tell you where my mind is at right now, and I'll gladly accept feedback.
1- Let it burn; seems like a "feel good" idea in retrospective, even somewhat chathartic, but let's face it; I had a lot of stuff in that rig, I was on holiday, and I didn't want to lose it all. Plus, I wasn't going to be responsible for a fire in a nice quiet RV resort if I could help it.
2- Get a refund- really not practical. Yes, I would love to get a cheque for the purchase price and send the damn thing back and start over, but that ain't gonna happen. The minute I started talking like that, I have lost ALL leverage with KZ. Far better to be reasonable and ask for what I wanted from the beginning: a fiver that I like. And I DO like the unit. I just want it to work. So far KZ is stepping up, and I respect that. Don't worry. This WILL be fixed to my satisfaction
3- Get a new rig- Do I really want that? Yes, if the old one is beyond repair, or so badly put together that it can't be fixed. But I doubt that's the problem. I figure a new rig just means a whole new set of shakedown issues. Better to address the Devil I Know for now.
Mark at KZ seems to have a handle on things, and he read my original post on the KZ owners forum. It's nowhere near as active as this one, so I'm not posting there any more. I'm sure they are aware of this forum also, and I will make sure they are.
Thanks also for the kind words in the previous posts.
Just wondering why when their fire extinguisher failed, you didn't go find the closest pay phone and called the fire dept. I am sure they would have been there in a few minutes.
It was a very small fire. And I had a hose nearby if needed. Even with a quick response from the FD, the damage would have been much worse. Sometimes it's better to gauge the situation and act.
Are "you" talking with the factory on this yourself? Or, just taking the dealers word...... You need to talk directly with the factory customer service.... DO NOT trust the dealer info - go direct.....
I decided to start a new thread to update you on the situation. For those of you who did not follow, the original thread is at Disgusted with KZ Quality
So to update, we lost the GFCI circuit (since replaced), a second circuit which I erroneously blamed on a bad breaker, severed the propane hose under the galley slide, and had water sucked in through both the galley and dinette slide. The dinette leak was by far the worst.
On Jan 2nd, I finally located a replacement breaker at ACE hardware, and after installing it, still had the problem of it tripping out. Not instantly, but after several seconds. I went through the coach to make sure nothing was plugged into the circuit (which meant shutting off the ceiling fan/light) and tried a second time to re-set the breaker. This time DW yelled out that there was smoke coming from under the trailer! I ran out, and saw flames below the galley slide. I called for the fire extinguisher, and that too failed! I managed to extinguish the flames, but it did leave about a 6" hole in the bottom of the rig. Turns out there are two connectors (different circuits) that run under the slide, directly in the line of wheel spray. Terrible idea! The salt water from the second day of travel had infiltrated the poorly assembled connectors and led to a short.
This was the last straw. I called KZ and after talking to Neil Stafford, received a call from Mark Owens. They directed me to the very nearest KZ dealer (in St. Augustine Florida), where we dropped the fiver this morning. KZ is picking the unit up and taking it back to the factory for repairs. We are now on the road back home, spending two nights in hotels. KZ's response to this point has been very good, and I'm optimistic that this will end well, but WOW, can you believe this? I never wood have thought to look under a new trailer to make sure that there weren't AC connectors above the tires. And why would I need that? It's not like I'm going to take the slide out occasionally! Just one more thing to look for when considering a new rig.
I will be posting again once we get feed-back from KZ.
Thanks again to all for the good wishes and advice.
Two totally different issues. The wire connectors (which I'm sure are strictly for installation)are directly in the line of any road spray from the tires. Terrible location, really bad idea. The severed gas line is about 9 ft ahead of this, OVER the tires. Just a really poor design coupled with bad installation. Imagine putting an outlet under the shower head in your bathroom, but using an exterior grade wiring box. Oh sure...that's no problem.:h
So after the FIRE today, I called KZ directly. Yes, after replacing the breaker, we discovered that the electrical fault was actually the cable connection that sits directly in the path of the road spray under the slide. There are two connections there, and the one that didn't melt wasn't properly connected either. Oh, and the factory supplied fire extinguisher didn't work either, but I was able to put the fire out with only a small hole in the underside of the trailer.
I have been in direct contact with Mark Ownes at KZ and he is handling this quite well. We will be dropping the trailer at a KZ dealer here in St. Augustine tomorrow morning, and it will be shipped back to Shipshewana for full factory repairs. KZ will be helping to defray the additional costs incurred by having to drive home without the fiver.
Oh God! If I couldn't laugh I'd cry. Beer time.
OP (Dean) here.
This has turned into quite a good thread. Thanks for all the advice and input. I thought I could update you, and also add some pictures, and answer some questions.
First off, someone asked how the truck is running; FAN-freakin-tastic. I think the trip has been good for the CTD, as we took an overnight trip to Key West without the fiver, and I felt like I was driving a sports car. The HP really seems to have gone up. It's got about 35-40K miles on it now, so probably just opening up.
Second-I was thinking about this whole idea of the shake-down trip. Sure, this is a pretty long maiden voyage, but what difference does it make? I could have taken 2 or three short trips, but if there wasn't any rain, how would I have known that slide seal leaked? And distance to dealer is irrelevant, as we our dealer is in NC, and we live in Ontario. As for the other failures, that had more to do with time than distance.
I have noticed that the leaking seal comes completely out when extended, and then rolls completely in when retracted. The other seal, which doesn't leak, is full in when retracted, and half in/half out when extended. What is correct.
If anyone else has a galley slide with a gas line under it, I'd love to hear how it works.
Right now enjoying the sun and warm weather. Everything works except the one breaker, and my mood is much improved.
P.S. wanted to insert some images but couldn't figure out how. Any ideas?
As it turns out, I owe a small "mea culpa" to KZ. The propane regulator was not faulty. As I sat outside pondering whether or not to have another beer, I gazed under the galley slide and noticed something jagged. Turns out, something was kicked up by the tires and cleanly severed the LP hose that connects to the fridge and stove. Unbelievable! It sliced right through the plastic guide track and the hose, causing an over-flow situation which the pig-tails shut down. What irony; I actually own a hose shop, and if I was at home I could make a hundred replacements. It's definitely not a great place to route the hose, but even at that, that's a pretty bizarre thing to happen. I have managed to seal off the hose using some McGyver techniques, and now we have the furnace again if we need it. Still no gas to the fridge or stove/oven, but I can run my gas grill. I'll pick up a new hose assly on the way home, or just gut it out 'til I can make one. So that's one thing off the list against KZ. Also, the breaker I need was not/is not available at Home Depot. It's a Square D DP4075.
I'll keep you posted.
Dean, Tracy, and family.
Thanks for all the support and good wishes. I'm trying to get in touch with K&K right now to get a new regulator. Glad I'm in Miami and not further north!
A dealer PDI wouldn't have caught any of these issues (save possibly the slide seal). I think the real problem is the use of inferior parts. The GFCI didn't even have a brand name on it (they usually say Leviton or Cooper or GE). And the breaker that is failed is a double, so the only way to switch to a different breaker is to tie into something with a higher AMP rating, and that's dangerous. I forgot to mention that I also switched out both of the cheater vents, because the cheap one's supplied with the unit didn't close and stank up the whole trailer.
I think this kind of rant is useful. It certainly seems to have made the OE's listen. I seem to recall that five years ago tires were a major issue, but not so much anymore. This forum is great platform for making the manufacturers aware.
Hope everyone enjoys their Christmas. I'll update all of you as things progress.