Ford uses Nylocks on the spring loaded intercooler boot clamps also. I did say you won't find Nylocks "under" the truck, not throughout the entire truck.
Under most pick ups I have seen, the fifth wheel hitch hardware on the passenger side is directly above the exhaust, often quite close to where the tail pipe is closest to the bed as it humps over the axle. I would remain concerned about using Nylocks in this area.
Otherwise, your points are well stated and well taken about production simplicity and costs driving hardware decisions. Thank you very much for contributing your experience.
As far as Nylocks, one of my best mates, a retired nuclear submarine engineer in the Navy, specified and encouraged the use of Nylocks quite a bit. It's fair to say as in space, there is very little tolerance for loose nuts on a submarine mission.
I still wouldn't use nylocks directly above an exhaust system though.
Ha ha... I keep thinking that threads get quiet everytime I post, whether doubled or not. I thought about copying someone else's signature from another forum, which said "Threadkiller: Every time I post, they die?"
Thank you NC Hauler for those measurments!
As everyone shall see quite clearly now, there is a SUBSTANTIAL difference between the integrated factory hitch mount on the Dodges, versus the integrated factory hitch mount on the Fords, which co opts the Reese Signature Elite footprint and puck system.
The Reese system is 30" across left to right... versus the Dodge's 39" across.
The Reese system is only 13" front to back... versus the Dodge's 30" front to back.
To define the rectangular coverage area connecting to the truck frame corner to corner of the imaginary pyramid support base of the fifth wheel hitch, the Dodge hitch to truck frame contact support base encompasses an 1,170 square inch area corner to corner, whereas the Ford hitch to truck frame contact support base encompasses a 390 square inch area corner to corner.
If I were working at Ram with the job of marketing the towing features of this new product, I would be all over touting this observation to potential customers. In fact, Chrysler, how about a little check for my assistance here in pointing out this observation? If money is tight, a copper colored Longhorn will do.
There is an entire street of RV Parts and Repair facilities in Sacramento... I think the street is called El Camino. Before the bust 6 years ago, there were at least a dozen RV business on a 4 block section of that road. Even after the bust, there are still about half a dozen left.
Can't think of the exact name of the street, or any names of the RV repair facilities, but when I'm in that part of the country, I get there by taking business 80, and then go by sight recognition.
Judging by the 12 year performance of Rhino liner applied in a controlled factory production setting, I wouldn't trust Rhino liner anywhere under the sun or rain... which are the key elements that an RV roof is intended to protect from.
The Rhino liner in my experience was not even inside a truck bed. It was applied to the tops of lift lids on utility boxes, which was not a loading or walking surface. It had nothing to do but just stay put, but it did not.
Within the first year, it began chalking, leaving ugly streaks of it's sluffage staining the sides of the utility beds after every attempt at washing. Within the second year it began alligatoring, with delta like fissures dividing the covering into a craggy cratered surface. By year three, the micro creeks and rivers between those crags began to wash away exposing the steel underneath. By year four, after putting up with more gray drip and wash stains down the sides of the boxes, I was now putting up with rust stains on the tops.
Annual treatments with a variety of savior products has not helped. This summer, after a dozen years of this Rhinoliner nonsense, it is getting powerwashed off and replaced with Line-X, which from my observation, seems a lot more durable when exposed to heat, water, and sun, like an RV roof typically is.
The rear end ratio is VITAL to towing performance on the 2500 Burb.
Another poster expressed his dissatisfaction earlier in this thread with the 6.0, and the first thing I looked at was what year... yep, newer than 2007, after the 4.10 rear ratio was no longer available.
I have a 2005 2500 Burb, and have been satisfied with the towing performance at 7,000 lbs. with a 6.0 and a 4.10 ratio. I held out for that 4.10 ratio, and let all the 3.73 ratios at better deals lot rot back when I shopped for the one I have.
I think with the 7.4L, you'll still want a 4.10. I believe with the 8.1L, you'll be ok with a 3.73, unless trying to tow 10K. Anything above 10K (up to the 12K maximum) you'll probably want the 4.10 ratio even with the 8.1L.
It is quite interesting as far as fuel economy, because in hilly terrain, the 4.10 ratio actually gets better fuel economy than the taller (smaller numerically) ratios, because the 4.10 enables more of the transmission's gears to be utilized throughout the pull.
Another "tip and trick" with the 2500 Burbs... stick with the stock tire size. Do not "upgrade" to 265s. That extra little bit of diameter downgrades the final gearing, which results in a loss of towing and transmission performance.
I did know that all the D/A has was 3.73.
What I was saying is that the C/A has a 3.42, 3.73, and a 4.10 option.
If you got as much as 16.6 empty with your 4.10 ratio, then just imagine the fuel mileage folks who opt for the standard 3.42 will get (if they are willing to accept the derated GVWR).
I have 4.88 (from factory), and get 10. Empty. Yeah, I know. But back when I bought it, diesel was only $1.60 a gallon.
NC Hauler, I think your uniqueness is assured.
I'm now thinking the other guy's handle was NC Hornet. With the NC and the H's and the letter count and the syllables the same, perhaps you'll forgive me for being confused for a bit.
I'm excited to get those measurements!
Did you get 16.666 TOWING???
What rear gear ratio do you have? Dodge, excuse me, FIAT offers three (3) ratios for the CA drivetrain (Cummins/Aisin... thought you might appreciate the new abbreviation with your history coming from the DA drivetrain).
Do you have the 14,000 GVWR, or one of the de-rated GVWR's?
When the OEMs resorted to plastic intake manifolds on towing duty engines, many opined that the end of the world was near.
For anyone growing up turning screws on Rochesters, the thought of mere plastic taking the place of meaty looking castings from Vic Edelbrock was blasphemous.
Yet that plastic proved to be every bit as good at funneling air to eek more hp and tq than ever before derived from a given displacement, with a lower weight benefit. Dustin Hoffman was right. ('60's Music plays: "Hello Plastic my old friend.... I've come to talk to you again....)
Wonderful! :D That would be awesome! Thank you in advance!
By the way, are you not the same NC Hauler that mastered the 7.3L Powerstroke to the point of developing a crankcase breathing kit filter assembly for it? When did you turn Dodge? Crimeny, I can't keep up with all the changes! Just when I bookmark you in my mind as a legacy Ford guy, you're churning through the cutting edge of Dodges. Is this correct? Are you one and the same? Or is someone wearing an old blue coat your imposter? :)
bigcity... the issue with the magnetic ezconnector (and I've seen them live in person, Mr. Truck himself showed them to me) is that fact that no one else will have them on their truck. Not your neighbor who can rescue you instead of a tow company. Not the tow company. Pretty much no one except the cool gadget loving few who are far, far between.
Part of the advice attempted to be imparted by a few responders on this thread is to stick with what is universally industry standard. This is part of emergency planning. Finding the most durable industry standard connector is a safer bet when things don't go as planned.
That ezconnector is very cool though. It snaps right in. The O rings are nice too. But it isn't standard. It is a superior Betamax, when the industry is all VHS.
Well, curiosity got the best of me, so I contacted Hopkins about the metal used in the connections of the Hopkins Endurance #48470 connector I was describing in the post above.
Turns out, they are NICKEL PLATED BRASS. The back end wire connections terminals as well as the inside the plug terminals on the front (blades and center pin of the 7 way, and all holes and ground pin of the integrated 4 and 5 ways) are all nickel plated brass. This is a very good thing. In fact, it is better than brass alone, and is more costly to produce.
As an example, I was recently shopping for triplex pressure pumps, and the nickel plated brass ones added a couple hundred dollars to the cost of an otherwise identical pump.
Another feature that Hopkins made me aware of is that this is the only connector that has a 3 year warranty. I'm not big on warranties, but if you are, then there it is. Finally, the Hopkins guy was talking about how they were trying to break the door off of one of these connectors in the shop... just to see what it would take to do it. They couldn't manage to, he said, and they were "beatin on it".
I bought this connector when the spring in my current Pollack brand connector would not fully close the door. This would leave the inside of the connector exposed and vulnerable to tire flung water and road spray, as well as dirt from the vacuum created in the back of the vehicle when the vehicle is moving forward at highway speeds. I didn't like that, and wanted a door on the trailer connector to shut securely. This Hopkins connector did, and has a neoprene seal built into the door to boot.
However, when I started to remove my Pollack connector, I saw a way to fix my existing door, so I chose to do that instead. Now that I've seen this thread, and responded to this post, and learned more about the connector I already bought and planned to return... I think I'll keep it. It's a good unit, even if goofy looking. It meets the need for a robust no fuss trailer wiring connection, and eliminates the use of translators and adaptors for the 4 and 5 way connectors.
It comes with it's own metal mounting bracket and rear wire harness sealing boot as well.
Now THAT's over analysis for you. Any day, any time, any place, any subject... even one as small as a simple wiring harness connector that comes free on most vehicles... I'll outgun ya!
30 years ago, Ford pick up trucks were equipped from the factory with 7 way ROUND PIN Pollack connectors, similar to the big trucks. I don't recall how they were wired though. Also 30 years ago, a lot of trailers were equipped with smaller diameter 6 way round pin connectors. A lot of confusion and a lot of hassle monkeying around to make everything work right.
At some point during the last quarter century, the RV industry seemed to universally standardize on the 7 way flat blade. All the vehicle OEM's began equipping their trucks and SUV's with the 7 way flat blade, if they offered a tow package.
I too, liked the older style all metal 7 way (and 9 way) round pin connectors with their anti kinking spring on the cables, and more robust construction overall. However, these types of connectors are not standard on RV and cargo trailers. They are simply not found. And no pick up truck manufacturer equips their vehicles with the older round pins either.
Given the risk that at some point, some other vehicle besides yours may need to move your trailer, the detriment of being different outweighs any perceived benefit of the more "robust" type of connectors. I'd stick with 7 way flat.
Hopkins, a brand available virtually in all automotive parts stores, including the big box chains like Pep Boys, OReilly's, Autozone, CarQuest, Napa, and the like, has what they market as an "ENDURANCE" line of vehicle connectors.
The specific model number is #48470, and it includes not only a 7 way flat RV blade, it also has a 4 way AND a 5 way flat universal plug integrated underneath. Both female receptacles have sturdy, tight fitting weather proof covers. The spring on the self closing 7 way flip up door is completely encapsulated on the hinge axis, unlike most door springs that are exposed and end up rusting. This enclosed return spring has a closure snap strong enough to put a decent bruise in your finger if you don't get your fingers out of the way.
The connector visually does have a goofy looking design... with an industrial looking hexagonal shape reminiscent of the "built Ford tough" commercials where you see the Ford logo slam shut and bolts turning nonsense. Don't worry, there is nothing Ford-esqe about this Hopkins connector, for you Dodge and Chevy diehards. I'm just using Ford's older commercials as an example of lame advertising and design that attempts to communicate industrial toughness but in the end only conveys a condescending attitude toward the consumer, who is given no credit for having intelligence to see the gimmicks as what they are... fluff that gets in the way of understanding the product.
Such is the style of this Hopkins connector. Despite it's cheesy looking Droid like so called "industrial" looking design, it really does have the most robust lifting door, as well as the longest supporting tube to hold the trailer connector in place. It also has the most compact face for having a 7 Way, a 5 Way, and a 4 Way connection capacity all integrated into one connector.
Getting back to the lifting door... it is the only door that I'm aware of that lifts up a full 180 degrees, so you can really swing it up out of the way to engage the trailer connector without bending so far down to the ground, if that is an issue for you. (I always squat down on my haunches anyway to engage chains and safety brake, but I can still appreciate this full swing door feature).
On the back end, the wire terminals do not appear to be brass... (unless they are nickel plated brass). I cannot report if this is a good or bad thing, because I do not know what type of metal these terminals are made of. I'm tempted to contact Hopkins to ask, as corrosion of wire terminals at their connections due to dissimilar metals is an important issue.
If I remember, I'll contact the company and report back. I have one of these units on my desk right now, unopened in the package. Expect to pay around $29.99.
PS... and you thought YOU overanalyzed everything? HA! :)
Do you mind measuring the on center distance between the perimeter bed holes in your integrated 5th Wheel / Gooseneck hitch set up?
I'm interested in the distance they are from each other lengthwise, and width wise. I'm interested in on center distance from hole to hole only, not from hole to tailgate or hole to front of bed.
After measuring the distance of the perimeter holes front to back and side to side, do you mind checking to see whether the gooseneck hole in the center is equidistant diagonally between all four perimeter holes, of if it is offset/biased forward or rearward in relation to the perimeter holes?
I would very much appreciate knowing this information. The Ram website and the Ram dealer are both useless in these regards.
Thank you, and congratulations on your new tow vehicle!
Quote:Lock washers can be the problem sometimes because they break and fall out, i'd rather use loctite and or nylock nuts
Look on your truck, you won't find a lock washer/Quote.
And keep looking under your truck...you won't find a Nylock nut either!
Elevated underbody temperatures (like exhaust heat from turn up pipes over the axle, mufflers, catalytic converters, and diesel exhaust aftertreatment systems) can partially melt the elastomer in the nylock nut, whereupon it looses all of it's "locking" feature. The OEM's strongly caution approved vehicle upfitters about this.
The best nuts to use are prevailing torque flange nuts. The locking feature of the nut is inherent in the manufactured eccentricity in the thread bore. The friction loss potential is reduced by the elimination of a washer, ANY washer, and the friction/bearing surface is broadened by the integrated flange that is integral to the nut. This is the type of nut you will see under the truck. Any brand of truck... from Toyota to Peterbilt, and all the Ford/Chevy/Rams in between.
The reason why "double nutting" is not seen is because the second nut removes the preload off of the first nut. Friction is most important nearest the parts being clamped, which partially involves the mating surface of the parts themselves, as well as the first two threada after that surface to nut transition along the bolt axis. The second nut in a double nut situation can unload the torque value of the primary nut. Not something seen done by OEM's on vehicles either.
Weren't two things were changed simultaneously?
From air bags to Timbrens, and from old truck to new truck.
If the new truck with Timbrens handles the load much better than the old truck with air bags, which is the most significant contribution factor? The Timbrens? Or the new truck?
I ran air bags on My old truck with a factory swaybar and overloads. It did OK. I upgraded the rear swaybar and it was much better. I ended up going with Timbrens on the new rig... The (new)truck handles the load much better than the old truck did.