RE: Chains on a 5th wheel for safty???
Here is my technical take on the difference in the laws. With a king pin, high hitching or a failure to close the latch will in most cases lead to an immediate disconnect. With a ball mount, it is possible to not latch the hitch or use too small of a ball and travel for many miles and not know there is a safety problem, hence the chain requirement.
RE: First fivers from Ever-Lite
Doesn't sound that outstanding. My last fiver, a real 1/2 ton towable unit was 27.5 ft, single slideout, and just 5000 lbs dry. My current unit is over 30 ft, TWO slideouts and under 7700 lbs dry (before I added the Mor/ryde IS). Almost 6 yrs old and it has held up really well. It will take more weight reduction with no price increase to really shake up the industry.
RE: Modify ('notch-out") Entertainment Center???
I'm only talking about removing a piece 6" wide. It appears that the only structural integrity this piece has is the 1" x 2" trim on the front of the wall. I "think" at the back of the proposed "notch" there is a 2 x 4 or similar vertical support - I'm not going to disturb that as it seems to be the main structural support. The TV opening is about 20" or more deep, so there is quite a bit of wall still behind the area of the 2 x 4 and the proposed cut.
Thanks,
John
Typically, the 1"x2" trim on the front is the only structural support at the front of the cabinet. Behind it will be a 1"x1" that the inner and outer lauan panels are attached to. With a 20" deep cabinet, there will be no other "studs" except at the back where there will be another 1"x1" stud. If you do notch the cabinet, one idea would be to slip a piece of 3/4" plywood into the wall cavity, an inverted 'L' shape. Spread the panels apart with a small block of wood, put wood glue on both sides of the plywood, slide it in, remove the spacer and use some C-clamps to hold it til the glue sets. If there are no wires in the cavity, the plywood should fit the full depth of the cabinet.
RE: Modify ('notch-out") Entertainment Center???
Most entertainment centers include storage above the TV and that weight is carried by the box that is the cabinet sitting on the floor. Screws into the floor and sidewalls are mainly to keep the cabinet in place, not carry any dead weight and typically there is no attachment to the ceiling. My point, if you notch the cabinet as you describe, the top portion will most likely pull away from the walls and/or sag due to the loss of the verticle support where you notch it. Just something to consider.
RE: AL-KO torsion axles
I don't know anything about your specific axles, however if you are correct that the actual wheel travel is only 1", then the trailer has to ride like a buckboard. The keys to a soft ride are lots of wheel travel, soft springs and low unsprung weight.
Torsion axles generally ride smoother because they have much less unsprung weight. The axle is bolted to the frame so the only unsprung weight is the wheel assembly. In addition, each wheel is independant of all the others on the same axle and adjacent axles, so less interaction between wheels. Downside is much higher transient loading. So, the rubber "spring" starts out soft and gets harder the more it is compressed.
RE: Basic lumber assortment for leveling
Well... Here's what I've got. 2- 2X8 X 4', 4- 2X8 X 2', usually you will only need to level on one side so it isn't necessary to pack much more than that. I've got all mine cut with a 45` on one end. I like a little wider 2X so I don't have to worry about the tires falling off.:S
Mine is pretty much the same for the leveling blocks. I also have some scrap cedar 4x6 blocks from a work project that I will use under the rear stabilizers and/or front legs. Cedar is lighter than more common species like pine or fir.
RE: AL-KO torsion axles
Our volunteer group runs nine gooseneck trailers, about the same length and triple axle torsion suspension. I don't know what brand axles and I doubt they have shocks on them. Right now, I'm not near any of the trailers. While I have only towed one several times, we have not had any problems or driver complaints. Some of these trailers have been in service for 4 yrs now.
Is it possible that you have too little weight on the axles resulting in wheel hop? With only 62% of the rated load on them, have you tried running the tires with lower PSI based on an inflation chart? Call Dexter and find out how much travel their torsion axles have and maybe switch to the Dexter units.
RE: AL-KO torsion axles
I feel like the problem is caused from the fact that the arms on the axles have only 1 inch of travel total top to bottom. This tells me that in perfect conditions that if the arms are compressed a half inch when loaded that it only has the ability to travel half inch up or down when you go over bumps or hit pot holes. axles.
How have you determined that the axles only have 1 inch of travel? There are no independant limit stops on torsion axles, just the further the swing arm travels, the greater the compression on the rubber. If the tires are just 1 inch from touching the inside of the fenders, then do you see tire marks on the fenders? Torsion axles come with several different offset angles relative to horizontal, anywhere from 10 degrees above horizontal to as much as 45 degrees below horizontal, but 30 degrees below horizontal is probably the most common, especially for higher rated axles. I don't know how long the swing arm is on your axle, mine is like 10 inches. If my math is right, a 60 degree swing from below 30 degrees to above 30 degrees will provide 5.7 inches of total suspension travel in my case. Now, my axles are a different design (Mor/ryde rubber suspension) than your torsion axle, but the swing arm principal still applies.
If you jack up the trailer, what angle is the unloaded swing arm at? If it is not 30 degrees below horizonal, then it is likely that the wrong axles were used.
RE: Replacing free standing table with a booth
I replaced our free standing table and sofa, not with a booth, but a similiar setup. Two tables as a work station with an office chair. There is storage included. The sofa also has storage underneath, two compartments 36x36x15 plus two behind the back cushions, 36x10x15. Finally there is a detachable table top for normal meals, etc. The link in my signature contains a few pics of the new setup that I built in early '07. Maybe it will give you a few ideas.
RE: Gooseneck vs 5th Wheel hitch setup
Assuming that you can have the trailer frame built specifically for a GN, here is what you might want to consider.
With the GN you can achieve greater sideways movement between truck and trailer which can be good on unimproved roads. Side to side tilt is available on most fiver hitches, but might be limited to 5-8 degrees. Of course, you will still be limited by the fiver to truck bed clearance regardless of GN or 5th wheel.
With a std. fiver hitch, you can see the hitch head from the driver's seat in most cases which helps with single person hook-ups.
A GN results in less stress on the truck frame and more on the fiver frame, if the trailer is built with this in mind, then all is well.
If you absolutely must have greater storage for large items in the truck bed while towing, then there is but a single answer, GN.
If you want standup height in the fiver bedroom, but a stout GN frame, it will not be possible w/o a very tall fiver. The typical GN trailer has the main frame rails under the front floor. The typical fiver trailer has the upper frame rails at the sidewalls (8ft apart) with smaller crossmembers so that the bedroom floor is recessed below the top of the rails. This combo of 8ft spacing and smaller crossmembers is what makes the typical fiver frame "at risk" with a GN adapter.
RE: CrossRoads Cruiser & Open Range
I'm still not a big fan of the cable slide system. Also, I saw a OR at a local dealer used and I didn't care for slide seal tears around the cables or the underside of the slide floor.
That was my concern first year I saw one at the local RV show. The cable kept the new seal from closing against the slide wall and the cable would quickly wear thru the rubber seal. Now OR is cutting a gap in the rubber seal and adding a hard plastic piece to act as a guide for the cable. It will still wear, but not as fast.
RE: Upside down handle on hitch
The downside is having to reach over the bed rails to pull the lever and not having the handle end at shoulder heigth for a straight line pull. When I had a PU with a bed cover, rather than flipping the handle, I was able to drill a different hole and rotate the handle just enough to clear the cover when unhitched yet just above the bed rail when the hitch was in use.
RE: no suspension in my 5th wheel
Okay so I looked at what a torsion spring axle is and you where right it is one of those. thank you. I do however want to know if I can put shocks or something on there to help take some of the bounce out. is that possible?
I've had two RVs with rubber torsion axles and they definately ride smoother. I've also had two RVs with leaf springs. The difference is significant, if my present unit had rubber torsion axles, even as an option, I would have been pretty happy. Instead, I spent $$$ on an aftermarket conversion from leaf springs to the Mor/ryde IS system. I suggest you get some more time towing with the rubber torsion suspension before deciding about adding shocks.
RE: CrossRoads Cruiser & Open Range
Very pleased with my '04 Cruiser and Crossroads support, both under warranty and after warranty assistance. The Cruiser is my 5th RV, may be the last. It has seen a lot of miles and camping days. We always like to hit the RV shows each year and have failed to find something we like better. I second checking out the Crossroads forum.
RE: Gooseneck hitch vs 5th wheel
AGBAT,
I agree, the wagon and fish scale example will have equal force readings. So will my example of dragging a 10 lb weight across a table with different length pipes. But the force required to move an object is not the issue. The question is does adding a GN extension to the king pin create additional leverage on the fiver frame? Any force has an equal and opposite reactive force so whatever power is supplied by the tv to pull the fiver, the fiver is pulling back on the tv by the same amount. Those opposing forces act on each vehicle at the connection point between them, and there is a lever arm for each vehicle. For the tv, the standard height fifth wheel hitch is actually worse than a ball mounted on the bed floor because it is a longer arm applying the same reactive force from the fiver against the tv. However, the reverse case exists for the fiver, the GN extension creates a longer arm on the fiver so that the force applied by the tv puts more stress on the fiver frame. OK, you can’t or don’t want to understand this.
But what about the statement I quoted from Andersen Manufacturing that the GN extension puts additional stress on the fiver frame? There are several possibilities. 1) Their statement is a complete lie, so they are just trying to destroy their business then? 2) Their statement is right, but the added stress is unique to their product, all other GN extensions add no stress. Then, they would either go out of business or redesign the product. 3) Some GN extensions add stress to the fiver frame, but some don’t. Which are which? In a PM you stated that you are unfamiliar with this specific GN extension. What about all the other designs? 4) All GN extensions increase stress on the fiver frame, whether disclosed by the manufacturer or not. Most likely since it fits the physical laws of a simple lever.
Regardless of which possibility you believe, it is a disservice to fellow RVers to make a blanket statement about all GN extensions if it might not be valid for all GN extensions but especially if you chose to ignore information directly from a manufacturer of a GN extension.
Andersen Manufacturing also states
it is necessary to also bolt the adapter to the pin box to ensure a secure union between the adapter and your trailer. This is due to the fact that there are various types of pin boxes mounted to 5th wheel trailers and some pin boxes are constructed to minimum specifications with little or no reinforcing inside the pin box itself, especially around the area where the kingpin is welded to the pin plate.
i.e., the added stress of the extension might break the king pin from it’s back plate. So, yes there is leverage against the king pin, just like trying to pull “a nail out of a board”.
Plus,
we have noted that some trailer frames are constructed to minimum specifications as well. Thus, the additional leverage created by the Ranch Hitch Adapter may be too great for some pin boxes and trailer frames. Andersen Manufacturing recommends that you use discretion when installing the Ranch Hitch Adapter to any 5th wheel trailers which may be constructed to these minimum specifications.
So how many buyers or dealers could remove the skin to expose the fiver frame and then determine if it is built to minimum standards or something better? If better, how much better? Do any GN adapter suppliers define how much more strength is needed? I don’t believe this specific adapter is significantly better or worse than any other one. I also don’t know how much info other manufacturers make available. But no one will suffer by doing too much research, so I encourage everyone to do the leg work and post their findings.
RE: Gooseneck hitch vs 5th wheel
Question. Fifthwheel hitch pivits forward and backward, and some pivit side to side. Bolted or pined to the truck bed. You can undo the bed pins or bolts and remove it with trailer still connected to the fifthwheel hitch. GN pivits and disconnects at the bed. Pivit point different place but still connected to truck frame where load is applied and pulled from. How is it more stress when load is at the frame of truck with both hitches? If you unpined fifthwheel hitch at the bed and left on trailer would you not just have a big gooseneck hitch?
While the total distance is the same, each setup really has two lever arms, one on the truck and one on the fiver. They are of different lengths and totally different designs. With a normal fifth wheel hitch, the truck's lever arm is the heigth of the hitch head above the truck's frame, in the range of maybe 18 inches. Any force that the fiver applies to the truck, from starting, stopping, sway, bumps, etc will act on the truck thru that lever. With a GN setup, the length of the truck's lever will be much shorter, from the frame to the contact point on the curvature of the ball, maybe less than 6 inches total. This is good for the truck.
But the opposite situation exists for the fiver's frame. The normal pin box heigth of 12 inches now becomes 26 inches. Any force that the truck applies to the fiver to move it, stop it, change direction or road bumps will act thru a longer lever to the fiver frame. The GN adapter may be super strong and rigid to handle those forces, but with no changes to the actual pin box or fiver frame, those components may suffer with the increased stress.
I'm doing a lot of tree clearing right now, I can cut the trunk 12 inches off the ground or 26 inches off the ground. Which will be easier for my backhoe bucket to pull sideways? The tree roots are "welded" the same in either case.
RE: Gooseneck hitch vs 5th wheel
What ever you want to believe guys. Just do not try to tell posters that a gooseneck is more stress on the pin and you will not hear from me.
Again, here is a statement from a GN adapter supplier, not from a poster.
Thus, the additional leverage created by the Ranch Hitch Adapter may be too great for some pin boxes and trailer frames.
I guess that even their engineers have the science wrong. I'm sure they would like to understand how they are wrong so they can drop the warranty disclaimer and increase sales. Fiver frame manufacturers would also like the answer, then all the brands can offer GN adapters as an option to increase their profits. Maybe a nice commission?
I do like the other analogies posted and have another one to suggest trying. First, even a ZERO extension pin box will be about 12 inches tall from the pin plate to the welds on the fiver frame. The typical GN adapter has a length of 14 inches. So, use two scrap pieces of PVC pipe, one 12" and one 26". Tie a rope to a dead weight of maybe 10 or 20 lbs and place it on a table. Slide the 12" pipe onto the rope and facing the table, hold the pipe vertical with your right hand at the very top of the pipe. Pull the rope thru the bottom of the pipe with the other hand to pull the dead weight and feel the stress on your right wrist. Repeat with the test with the 26" length of pipe. Any difference in stress on your wrist is an example of what the welds on the fiver frame will experience. That is with a steady pull. Starting, stopping, rough roads produce higher stress levels.
RE: Has anybody ever replaced the couch in their fiver?
I removed the couch in my '04 Cruiser a few yrs ago, the back comes completely off as others have suggested. I then built my own storage/couch unit. There are two 36x35x15 inch storage compartments plus two 36x11x15 inch compartments behind the back cushions. Now the couch only sleeps one person, but now it also fits my 5'-10" height. Also replaced the dinette with two work surfaces and a little more storage. We carry a lot of stuff on a volunteer project. The link in my signature includes a few pics of the new couch and table.
RE: Gooseneck hitch vs 5th wheel
If I decide to order a new fiver, I can contact the manufacturer and most will give me two or three pin box options including several extended pin box lengths. The unit will come with a full factory warranty regardless of which option. They will also tell me the maximum pin box length the fiver frame is designed for. No manufacturer of traditional fivers will ship their units with a GN extension as an option. At least one GN supplier even states that THEY will not warranty that THEIR unit WILL NOT cause damage to the fiver frame. Pretty simple, buyer beware.
