Rick, for the record i never found your posts to be argumentative, it's a discussion and the one area where we seem to be in agreement is a serious commitment to safety. This is why your many anti air bag sentiments are troubling and frankly inaccurate. The NHTSB is quite forthcoming about air bag related deaths and injuries. Just Google "air bag" and the stats are readily available. Most of the problems have come from children being improperly secured or other operator errors. The myth that air bags are inherently dangerous has been around since their inception. People said the same thing about seat belts when they became mandatory. Both are urban legends that just won't go away. :h
The simple fact is air bags have been saving lives and reducing injuries for more than 20 years.
I also don't share your illusion that the folks driving motorhomes are necessarily better drivers, just seen too many foolish things done by MH's. With their large size and weight which reduces braking and handling you add a lot of potential for accidents. Given how fast some folks like to drive their rigs it is amazing that there aren't more serious accidents involving RV's.
Getting back to the original topic A vs C I am glad you are happy with yours but the one accident scenario you have not even considered is the one most likely, that of a coach striking a non moving object (often a single vehicle event).
When driving off the road and hitting a power/light pole, bridge abutment, large rock, 18 wheeler on the shoulder etc., the only help you will get from momentum is a quicker, (hopefully less painful), death. Imagine a C and an A (both operating within their GVWR's), both traveling the same speed and slamming into an immoveable object such as those listed above. The driver and passenger in the A are probably seriously injured and or killed as there is next to nothing between them and the impact.
The C's frame and chassis take the brunt of the impact and the multiple air bags deploy. Death is less likely and injuries will not be as severe. The success of air bags in this scenario has been documented for decades.
As I said I think there's a lot to like about Class A's but vs a Class C safety is just not one of them.
The one issue the A folks simply do not talk about is safety as the C's win that one hands down.
Do you have a link to any sort of statistics that support this claim? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just read this statement quite a bit on these forums, but have yet to see anyone offer any proof.
In fact, from the few members here who have been unfortunate enough to be involved in a front end collision, the driver and passengers in the (Class A) motorhome have faired quite well.
Airbags have little benefit on a vehicle which weighs, on average, 5-10 times more than the vehicle they are most likely to hit (family car). In a collision with another vehicle, momentum is your friend, and the bigger vehicle has the most momentum.
Most vehicles on the road, should they hit the front of the class A, will have their heads right in line with the frame rails of the class A, and be underneath the Class A driver/passenger. The van chassis of the Class C's put their driver about the same height as the other cars on the road, so in that case airbags may help you.
Now, if you're going to play "chicken" with a concrete delivery truck or loaded 18 wheeler, all bets are off. But, of course, in that situation, airbags won't help you either.
Rick, I'm sorry you do not believe in air bags... for me it is "honest politicians. :B
The fact remains that air bags save lives and reduce injuries dramatically and the fact that A's do not come with them seriously diminishes the safety of the occupants in a crash. Your momentum theory does not hold water, or in this case air. Would stepping on the gas to increase momentum improve the survivability in a crash? Yes I'm kidding, but the fact remains that more momentum at impact just exacerbates the damage to all of those involved.
In a one on one head on between an A and a passenger car I agree the lighter car may get the worst of it but the front end of that A is no place I want to be. In a C you have the reinforced steel cage/chassis surrounding the engine, with the impact from any direction, cushioned by air bags.
Sitting up front in an A there is precious little between you and the impact except that huge windshield. Yes, you are a little higher but that doesn't necessarily make you any safer and if you hit anything bigger than a Camry you are in serious trouble. There are lots of considerations when choosing between A and C but as I pointed out and this thread confirms, most folks with A's do not talk about safety much. Floor plans and storage seem to take precedence.
I think A's are amazing and most are well built. If my needs were best met by an A I would not hesitate to buy one but IMHO they cannot match a C for safety. When it comes to A vs C there are many other factors to consider and safety is just one of the many, hence this thread. As noted.... Opinions and YMMV.
I have to admit that it didn't take too long of a test drive to convince me we had found the right coach. Not much to not to like about a quality E-350 Class C, you gotta love the V-10 and 5 speed torque Shift transmission. We drove through some serious city traffic and then out onto I-10 where I passed a few 18 wheelers and then let some pass us. I was a breezy afternoon and I was nothing but pleased with the ride /handling and a year and 20,000+ miles later that hasn't changed.
I cannot imagine test driving a coach, finding serious handling/ride issues.... and still buying it. :h If a new rig does not ride and drive well from the factory you are probably looking at the wrong motorhome. Spending thousands to make a coach do what it should have done in the first place just doesn't make much sense to me. :?
As always.... Opinions and YMMV.
Just as an added consideration. Are you going to be able to adequately road test it, right now? You are about to have winter, I would think. Also, assuming you are going to purchase, if you have a CC that provides for a doubling of a warranty on any item purchased using the CC, do that. Then you'll have 60 days, rather than 30.
Good luck with that. Get a photo of the sales managers face when you tell him you will be paying for your RV with a CC. :E
Most credit card companies ding the merchant around 3% so look for that fee to be hidden somewhere in the deal.
Something for the OP to think about...
Probably the single most lucrative, profitable slice of the RV industry are the extended warranties. Dealers push these like an ugly sister at a country dance because they make a huge profit on each and every one. Now consider that they won't sell you one on this RV due to its high mileage and ask yourself "Why?" :h
As noted above there are lots of nice used RV's out there with far less mileage/risk so why take a chance on a high mileage coach who's history is a mystery?
There has been a lot of discussion of late regarding poor handling/ride quality found in newly acquired motorhomes. This is usually followed by these same folks spending thousands of dollars, often on brand new rigs (adding all sorts of after market improvements like shocks, anti sway bars etc), to improve the ride.
Maybe I am missing something here but did these people not do a thorough test drive? :h While used rigs can have all sorts of problems (that should show up on a test drive), any new motorhome should ride, drive and handle without issues right off of the dealers lot. If not it is a dealer s problem.... until they get your money.
If you have never driven an A, B or C the ride and handling characteristics may be an unpleasant surprise, or at the very least not what you were expecting but why would anyone buy a rig that is not fun/pleasant and especially safe to drive?
While test driving with a toad may not be possible (unless it comes with the used rig), a thorough test-drive of the coach should give you a good idea of what it is capable of. At the very least a thorough trip to the local interstate, up a decent grade and with a little luck some time spent on the highway with the wind blowing will likely save you thousands down the road. Can you get in and out of most gas stations without dragging? How comfortable is the ride for both driver and passenger? How is the visibility, mirrors/cameras etc.?
Often simple, inexpensive fixes like weighing the coach and adjusting the tire pressures accordingly or simply a corrective alignment, perhaps adding some castor (on Class C's), can solve problems but to have to spend thousands to make it drivable, especially on a new motorhome seems ridiculous. :S
What was your test drive experience before buying? What do/did you look for, how far did you go and and what type of roads? What, if anything given the opportunity would you do differently? A proper test drive is probably as valuable/important as a thorough PDI so lets discuss our collective experiences.
So far the tankless units for RV's are propane fired. No need for full hook ups.
You missed the point completely. If you take long showers with your tankless heater without full hook ups (sewer and water), you empty the fresh tank and fill the gray very quickly. It has nothing to due with the fuel source.
Most folks tend to like what they have. Had this post originated in the C Forum the responses probably would be overwhelmingly in favor of C's vs what we are seeing here. Posted in General RV'ing would more likely get you a more balanced response. i have a small (24') C but have spent some time in and alongside a 40' DP.
The one issue the A folks simply do not talk about is safety as the C's win that one hands down. The A's do not have air bags and this for me at least, is a huge issue. That big windshield in the A's comes with several problems, it lets in a lot of heat and light that is not always easy to mitigate and god help you in a front end collision.
Serviceability gives a nod to the C's as well as virtually any Ford dealer can work on the E-350's/450's while A's require a higher level of specialization. It usually comes down to a floorpan you can best live with followed by storage and towing capabilities. C's are easier to drive and park, A's haul and stow more stuff.... the choices are endless. Good luck!
The problem with tankless water heaters is they are only practical when you have full hook ups. If you don't have sewer and water then you cannot take "endless" showers etc., as your freshwater tank will empty and the gray will fill in short order.
In Tucson both La Mesa RV and Camping World charge $130 an hours..... which is absurd! :M
When we visited the Nexus factory in Elkhart to have some mods done to our C their labor rate was $75 an hour and unlike CW the work was excellent.
When it is headed down below 30 we end up running our 35,000 BTU furnace (which is very nice to have in a 24' C), for about 15 minutes before bed and then setting the thermostat at 65. It only kicks on two or three times during the night, usually for about 5 minutes or so. First thing in the morning I reach up and bump the thermostat (located on the wall right above the bed), up to 72 and in 5 to 10 minutes we are there.
My two group 27's are 3 years old and getting tired according to the last set of hydrometer readings but they will handle the heater for several nights in a row without recharging.
I use damp used dryer sheets to remove bugs on front cap of our 5vr.
Have used the Mr. Clean Magic pads on black streaks...worked OK but kept flipping out of my hand
Do they have to be "used" ?
No they don't have to be used..new ones work just as well.
Except GF won't let me toss them in dryer after removing bugs but she will let me take the used ones to clean bugs off :B
The new ones, that have not been through several dryer cycles, tend to leave a film on the coach. I've had better luck with the used sheets but either way they take off the bugs without much effort. Now if I could just reach most of our C's cabover.... :S
Whatever you end up getting be sure and insist on Hypalon fabric NOT PVC. PVC is for pool toys and the UV of the sun will eat them up. Avon and Zodiac are two of the best.
I had two Avon RIB's, the first was a 10' with a 9.9 2 cycle Suzuki and went like a bat our of hell, would cruise 24 mph in flat water with two adults. The second was a 9 footer with a 6 HP 4 stroke Nissan and while it would plane at about 16 mph you had to work at it. Both of these served as tenders, first to my 34' sailboat and then my 36' trawler.
RIB's have a number of advantages, they are stable and have good payload for their weight. You can swim/dive from them and they beach easily. They do better when left inflated and I would avoid the inflatable/wood/aluminum floor models. For the best performance get one with a deep V fiberglass hull(there are a some aluminum V hulls that also work well).
As far as outboard selection keep in mind that many lakes restrict the use of 2 cycles. The new breed of 4 strokes have gotten lighter and offer cleaner, more efficient power. A 9 food RIB with a 6 to 8 hp 4 stroke would be my first choice.
As always.... Opinions and YMMV.
Take a look at the line up from Nexus. Their Super C's compete head to head with the Seneca and Dynamax for a lot less (factory direct), money and they will customize any of their units to your specs.
We have had a very good experience with our Rand McNally LM 7720 GPS. It is designed for use by RV'ers and as such is packed with useful features. With a 7" touch screen it is easy to read, user friendly and very accurate. Got ours on Amazon for $269 and it comes with free updates for life.
I also have the Tire Trakker TPMS and a Scan Gauge all of which are constantly in use. It's hard to have too much good in formation at your fingertips.
"The (term) "Water Thief" is no more "stealing" water than somebody who "steals" it to fill a a 5 gallon container!
Simply a term for a *device* to temporarily connect to a spigot without threads..
The spigot is without threads to prevent a permanent connection."
Sorry but that dog won't hunt. The lack of threads has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing "permanent connection". The spigots we have been discussing are not in sites, they are scattered around the cg, usually just a few to service the entire campground. How could there ever be a permanent connection when the spigot typically stands alone next to the access road. For some fool to make a permeant connection his RV would have to be "permanently" parked on the road. :S
The USFS CG's I have referred to have no threads for any number of reasons, typically due to a less than unlimited supply of water/pumping capacity and or contamination issues. These facilities have signs at the spigot stating that "NO Device" is to be attached. It is just that simple and all of the false rationalization in the world will not alter the fact that to attach a Water Thief in this instance is to break the rule.
Just be glad that potable water is available for reasonable consumption. You will often see signs at the spigot that state no bathing, dish washing etc., do you advocate ignoring those as well? If you cannot live with the rules imposed by a campground for the benefit of everyone, including you, perhaps it is time to go somewhere else. :R
Ron, take a look inside your glove box. Sometimes Ford put an extra outlet in there. I use the the adapter that plugs in and has 2 female DC outlets with a USB receptacle in the middle. It was $12 at Walmart.
You guys talking about the color of the wood stain. I doubt there's much wood in there. Most are simulated wood vinyl covering over wood composite.
When you buy a quality rig the wood is real and no I'm not talking particle board or plywood. Our Nexus has solid Maple cabinets throughout.