RE: Travel Trailer
Enjoy your new rig, we certainly enjoy ours. Other than being on the heavy side I can't think of anything I'd change.
Good luck and keep us posted on how you like the new rig.
RE: WDH for 2500 Truck necessary?
Truck weights
Front axle: 4,620
Rear axle: 3,300
Total truck: 7,920
Trailer weights
Tongue: 820
Axle: 5,100
Truck and trailer no WD
Front axle: 4,356
Rear axle: 4,180
Total truck: 8,580
Truck and trailer with WD
Front axle: 4,450
Rear axle: 4,070
Total truck: 8,470
Your axle loads are not consistent with the reported tongue weight.
The axle load data indicate a tongue weight of about 600# versus the 820# from direct measurement.
I'm guessing the 820# value is closer to correct.
A tongue weight of 820#, with no WD applied, should have caused a load of about 330# to be removed from the steer axle and a load of about 1150# to be added to the drive axle.
I think a re-weigh is in order.
Ron
I was working in Kilograms and my son was in and out of the truck; he's about 30 pounds, which is why some of the weights are a bit off. The scale rounds to the closest 10 kgs, which is almost 25 pounds. The reason the WD hitch is only redistributing about half is that's what I thought GM wanted. I am readjusting.
I was merely pointing out to the OP that with a truck his size and minimal tongue weight acting on it; not a lot changes from loaded to unloaded.
RE: WDH for 2500 Truck necessary?
OP - I have a similar setup to you. See my signature below. I had a tough time setting up my WD hitch because the tongue weight of my trailer didn’t really have any effect on my truck. Below is my post with weights. This weekend I am going to tweek it to get the front end back to stock weight. John was a big help with this, I thought I was supposed to only add back 50% of the weight removed; this amounts to basically nothing. I will make the adjustments and probably update my post to let people know how it goes.
Here is my post:
I setup my hitch for my new truck yesterday. It is a 2013 GMC 3500hd diesel.
Truck weights
Front axle: 4,620
Rear axle: 3,300
Total truck: 7,920
Trailer weights
Tongue: 820
Axle: 5,100
Truck and trailer no WD
Front axle: 4,356
Rear axle: 4,180
Total truck: 8,580
Truck and trailer with WD
Front axle: 4,450
Rear axle: 4,070
Total truck: 8,470
I am using 7 links when I am hooked up.
I had a hard time getting it dialed in. The truck barely knew it was there so any adjustment had to be so minor. Plus, GM says only add back 50 percent of the weight removed from the front axle, making each adjust even more delicate.
RE: New Truck Hitch Setup
Hi John,
Thanks for taking a look and offering me what seems like very sound advice; it has been very helpful. I will adjust the WD to get the front axle weight to 50 pounds less than stock; like you suggested. I figured this would be easy with my new truck; truth be told the setup was much easier with my old half ton. This is probably because the weight transfer was more dramatic.
I will make the adjustments next weekend.
Thanks again John!
RE: New Truck Hitch Setup
Hi John,
The scale I was using is in Canada so all the weights were in Kg, I converted all the numbers. There are two other reason the weights are off slightly; the scale is just barely long enough to get both front and rear axles on it and my son and daughter were in and out of the truck on a couple weights. I could never get the whole truck and trailer on the scale. The axle weights for the trailer are taken when it was hooked to the truck with no wd.
I was reading this from my manual:
When using a weight-distributing
hitch, measure distance (A) before
coupling the trailer to the hitch ball.
If the hitch requires 50%
distribution, measure the height
again after the trailer is coupled and
adjust the spring bars so the
distance (A) is as close as possible
to halfway between the two
measurements. When 100%
distribution is required the spring
bars should be adjusted so the
distance (A) is the same as the
initial measurement after coupling
the trailer to the tow vehicle and
adjusting the hitch.
I have heard lots of people say the new norm is to get back 50% of the weight on the front axle. At the end of the day I was trying to get the front axle back to about 50%. I want to keep using the hitch for the sway control.
Any thoughts?
Thanks for your help!
New Truck Hitch Setup
Hi,
I setup my dual cam hitch for my last truck and it went smoothly and I was very happy with it.
I setup my hitch for my new truck yesterday. It is a 2013 GMC 3500hd diesel.
Truck weights
Front axle: 4,620
Rear axle: 3,300
Total truck: 7,920
Trailer weights
Tongue: 820
Axle: 5,100
Truck and trailer no WD
Front axle: 4,356
Rear axle: 4,180
Total truck: 8,580
Truck and trailer with WD
Front axle: 4,450
Rear axle: 4,070
Total truck: 8,470
I am using 7 links when I am hooked up.
I had a hard time getting it dialed in. The truck barely knew it was there so any adjustment had to be so minor. Plus, GM says only add back 50 percent of the weight removed from the front axle, making each adjust even more delicate.
Does this look like it will work?
Thanks!
RE: Moving On
I'm pretty new myself; but the value of this forum to RV enthusiasts like myself is very high. The time the moderators invest underwrites the entire operation; it’s a thankless job it seems. With that, thank you very much for your time and your contributions. I hope you and your family enjoy the next chapter in your lives; good things tend to happen to good people so I’m sure your next adventures will be great ones.
Take care.
RE: Do I need a diesel?
I got a diesel; probably don't need it for this trailer but I know how much I lost when I sold the last one. I got the biggest truck within reason to leave me room to grow. I can now buy a bigger trailer without upgrading the tow vehicle.
Your mileage may vary.
RE: Towing an Arctic Fox
I had a half ton and ran out of payload as my family got bigger. My trailer is only 500 pounds heavier at max gvwr and the tongue is basically the same. Love the trailer but its heavy.
Good luck.
RE: Polar/Arctic Pack???
You might contact the nearest Artic Fox dealer and see if they have anything that fits your needs.
Full disclosure:
I do not own an Artic Fox nor am I associated with Northwoods Mfg. I do however have a Tamarack (Northwoods Mfg product)in addition to the Alpenlite Aspen which has been our movable home since 2004.
Don't get an Arctic Fox; they are full of lauan and the walls will disintegrate before your eyes. Get a Lance.
I'm being sarcastic of course. I have had my AF in some pretty chilly temps in the mountains in Oct and Nov. We were warm in the trailer during the evening and over night; actually the furnace didn't seem to work all that hard. We had no hookups so managing on battery power was important. We spent three nights in temps around minus 5 celsius and around 10 degrees during the day.
Get whatever brand you like, if they offer a cold weather package get it if you see tangible value. Also, the dual pane windows make a difference if you ask me.
Good luck and enjoy your new RV.
RE: Travel Trailer Comparisons
Double layer?!...had I have known; I never would have bought it. Maybe I can get them to take it back? I'm sure if I spent the time I could find a multitude of items I would consider subpar; even on a Lance. I'm not really all that fussed about the Double layer?!...had I have known; I never would have bought it. Maybe I can get them to take it back? I'm sure if I spent the time I could find a multitude of items I would consider subpar; even on a Lance. I'm not really all that fussed about Luaun; I dont know if you should be either. Looks like your trailer has some traces of it too.
I can't stress enough that quality materials should be used in the manufacture of a RV. Too many RV manufacturers take the cheap way out with selecting low grade building materials.
I stand by my original statement!
WoodGlue
You're welcome to contact via private PM about the multitudes of subpar Lance "mistakes" that you find!
WoodGlue, please reference the site Skip posted that ranks RVs; looks to me like the users of Arctic Fox rank their trailers higher than the users of Lance. Further, more people have ranked Arctic Fox so I would think sample size won't be an issue.
Also, I only need to reference the lancesucks website to understand that some people don't think as highly of the rig as you do. I'm sure Arctic Fox is not without its flaws and there are a number of instance where people are disappointed; however, users of this site often recommend the brand as one of the better ones too. Some go as far as recommending Arctic Fox even when they don't have one.
Enjoy your trailer and I'm glad that you are as satisfied as you are. Please remember, other brands may choose different materials and techniques; they can still be just as good or better than a Lance.
Rock on.
RE: Travel Trailer Comparisons
Yes, your Arctic Fox has a double layer of Luaun as well.
WoodGlue
Double layer?!...had I have known; I never would have bought it. Maybe I can get them to take it back? I'm sure if I spent the time I could find a multitude of items I would consider subpar; even on a Lance. I'm not really all that fussed about Luaun; I dont know if you should be either. Looks like your trailer has some traces of it too.
OP - one other thing to consider is how you will be using the RV and what type of "camping" you like. To some camping is full hookups in town; while others think its docking in a remote location. Overall capacaity of the trailer and its holding tanks should be considered as well.
Just another thought I had.
RE: Travel Trailer Comparisons
Skip – that is a great website; thanks for posting it.
I guess my Arctic Fox has Luaun in it; I don’t view this as a crisis but an opportunity to ensure that I keep up with the maintenance of the RV. I think this is the most important aspect of a new RV purchase; each brand is going to have both positive and negative aspects; more positives and the price is going to be higher. Like others have said, floor plan and dealer accountability should factor into your decision.
Once you buy something reserve yourself to the fact that it is going to require some regular loving; to be honest part of the RV experience for me is something to tinker with. My son loves to spend an afternoon in the trailer just puttering around with me; truth be told, I think I love it more than he does…
RE: diesel truck reminder
Truth is the newer diesels are as quiet as gas motors. The Duramax GMC motors have been quiet for a long time now.
Ford and Dodge have also caught on and silenced there motors.
Tis a true statement. I had an 03', 05 and 07.5 Chevy D/A and they, at their time, were the quietest of the "Big 3's" diesels...Dodge, to me was the loudest, but not any more....I've had a 10 and the 12 in my sig...no smell, no smoke and very little noise, been that way for more than several years now. A "non issue" now a day's.
The newer trucks are so quiet because of all the corked up emissions on them. Have you seen the size of the DPF used on the new Dmax? My 2012 is so quiet and you can put your face right up to the exhaust at idle and it smells like the air coming out of the back of your laundry drier.
This made me laugh out loud because its true. I did the "Put your face right up to the exhaust..."; this is my first diesel, I was amazed at how quite and clean it was.
RE: Chevy hitch receivers 2011-2013
I can answer the hitch rating question. Long box trucks have the higher rating at 2000 pounds. The short box has the 1500 pound rating. My 2013 3500 HD is rated for 1500 pounds, it's a short box.
This can be found in the 2013 manual in section 9-88.
RE: Toyota Tundra towing 8500 lb travel trailer
I loved my Tundra, but I to had to sell it and get something with more payload. I dont have an overly large trailer (it is heavy), when I started loading family and other items into the truck I was over my payload. I am always in the Rocky Mountains and the drive train in the Tundra did great going up the mountains; going down the coquihalla highway though was one of the contributing reasons to getting a bigger truck. The truck worked hard to get down and so did I.
Good luck with your trailer.
RE: 2013 GMC 3500 Dual Cam Setup
I figured out why the one truck has the higher rated hitched when compared to mine. All long box trucks come with a hitch rated for 2,000 pounds; while the standard box comes with 1,500 pounds.
Sheepishly...I found this in the manual.
RE: 2013 GMC 3500 Dual Cam Setup
Hi John,
This is great, thanks a lot! I will do what you did and add back about 80% of the weight back to the front end of the truck and it give it a go. I setup my DC for my last truck without issue so hopefully this goes equally smooth.
Thanks for outlining all the finer points as well, its good to understand why it has changed over the years.
Thanks for your help.
Dr. Blake,
Your more than welcome. We all learn something from these posts, in my case your truck got my curiosity up. On the way home from work I stopped over to the GMC dealer and looked for what you have. Boy that is one nice truck inside.... This one had the Dmax in it too.
A 2013 3500HD SRW. Do not know your cab configuration however it will not matter for what I was looking for.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/Tow%20Vehicles/2013%20GMC%203500HD/20133500SRW_zps0603c08a.jpg
They area still using torsion bar front ends, just updated some.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/Tow%20Vehicles/2013%20GMC%203500HD/Lowercontrolarm_zps83f10c05.jpg
And still using the lower control arm jounce bumper. It is yellow even...LOL
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/Tow%20Vehicles/2013%20GMC%203500HD/controlarmjouncebumper_zpsa58d9654.jpg
The truck has helper springs (overloads) on the 3500. The 2500 has the progressive leafs. I'm assuming yours has these too
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/Tow%20Vehicles/2013%20GMC%203500HD/rearoverloadspring_zpsa4b55f2f.jpg
Before you setup the WD hitch and hit the scales, load the truck bed with gear like you are going camping. In my case the tip of my rear helper spring just kissed the frame bracket and created a lot of left to right stability. Your weight may not be enough to get down that far, but maybe. See mine
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/F350%20Super%20Duty/RearhelperWDengage.jpg
The front still has lots more to go
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/F350%20Super%20Duty/FronthelperWDengage.jpg
Here is the 2013 3500HD receiver sticker and the new unique pic-o-gram label that was on this one. The older worded one was so much more straight forward.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/Tow%20Vehicles/2013%20GMC%203500HD/20133500recieverrating_zpsdd2bab94.jpg
Your seems to be lower than that. Here is the sticker off a 2012 2500HD which sort of lined up to what your stated.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/Tow%20Vehicles/2012%20GM%20hitch/rating.jpg
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
John
Hi John,
My truck is a 3500HD, Diesel Denali 4x4 crew cab with the standard box (6’6”). My GVWR is 11,500 pounds as listed on the door sticker and the payload is 3,831; slightly down from the 4,024 in the brochure because I got the sunroof, door steps and some small options like dual alternators. I double checked the sticker on my hitch and it is rated for 1,500 pounds max tongue and 13,000 pounds; the hitch you photographed almost looks like it should be on the dually because they are rated for 18,000 pounds. I wonder why my hitch and the one you photographed are different if they are both off single axle trucks?
I do have the overloads on the back and the yellow stops on the front; I am going to follow your previous instructions of reloading 80% of the weight back to the front and go from there.
You have been a big help, thanks for taking the time to get me on the road safely!!
Blake
RE: 2013 GMC 3500 Dual Cam Setup
It's interesting that GM would not give a specific parameter for returning weight to the front end. Everything I have read specifies anywhere from returning the front end to the original height to splitting the difference. John is a knowledgable guy with this stuff as is Ron Gratz. These two guys got me through the process of setting up my hitch and as far as I'm concerned, their hitch advice is gospel. I would definitely not go lower than the original height, and just doing a visual measurement may not do it for you, you may have to hit a CAT scale.
I had the same truck as you previous to my new truck, mine was a 2007. I loved that truck, plus it came with good instructions on how to setup a WD hitch!
I am going to add back 80% of the weight that was removed by hitching the trailer and try that out. I will use a government scale right by my house. At first it seemed like adding anything less than 100% of the weight back seemed counterintuitive. However, after reading Johns post I can see how it would make sense to keep some of the weight off the front end, especially with a truck that probably wont squat much under 1000 pounds of tongue weight.
If anyone else has suggestions I am all ears.
Thanks.
RE: 2013 GMC 3500 Dual Cam Setup
Hi,
I just purchased a 2013 GMC 3500 HD Diesel single rear wheel truck. It is an extended cab regular box. My trailer is a 2012 Arctic Fox 25S, it weighs about 6,500 pound ready to camp and the tongue weight is about 900 pounds; these are both scale weights. I have Reese Dual Cam with 1,200 pound trunnion bars I used with my previous truck and I want to adjust the hitch for my new truck. I have not problems setting up the hitch but I can figure out GMCs instructions.
From the manual: When using a weight-distribution hitch, measure the distance A (ground to fender) before coupling the trailer to the hitch ball. If the hitch requires 50% distribution, measure the height again after the trailer is coupled and adjust the spring bars so the distance A is as close as possible to halfway between the two measurements. When 100% distribution is required the spring bars should be adjusted so the distance A is the same as the initial measurement before coupling the trailer to the tow vehicle and adjusting the hitch.
So my question is - do I distribute the weight by 50% or 100%? A friend said I shouldn’t even bother with weight distribution; I have the hitch and I would rather be safe than sorry.
Thanks for the help!
Hi Dr Blake,
This new 2013 GM chart has come up on a few other posts. What you are reading to is the wording referencing a 1500 truck. See the chart on page 9-94 or your 2013 owners manual. Scroll to 9-94 2013 Silverado PDF page 362 The GM Serria on line manual seems to keep poinntg to the 2012 and the instruction on WD are different on the 2012's. So I do not have a link for a 2013 HD GMC, the Chevy counter part should be the same.
That charts states:
On a 1500 with a trailer of weighing between "Up to 7000 lbs" WD is optional. And then under "hitch distribution" it gives this "Refer to trailer manufacturer’s recommendation"
On a 1500 with a trailer of weighing between "7001 to 9900 lbs" WD is required and they are indicating up to 50% distribution.
On a 1500 with a trailer of weighing between "Over 9900 lbs" WD is required and they are indicating up to 100% distribution.
For a 2500/3500 is oddly enough declares WD as "optional" for trailers up to 18,000#. And then under "hitch distribution" it gives this "Refer to trailer manufacturer’s recommendation"
Those instructions for a TT are really clear as mud with no reference to a loaded tongue weight. Some how they may have "assumed" trailers only have a 10% tongue weight in relation to the GVW. On a TT that is not common. In fact it is uncommon.
The part about the 50% load restoration is in regards to the new guidelines by SAE towing tests in regards oversteer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understeer_and_oversteer If you have too much weight on the front of the truck, in a turn when the TT is pushing the truck they want the front end to slide a little. If too much weight is on the front the front "may" bite in so to speak create an oversteer condition and send you into a jackknife.
The way that chart reads is really not helping folks with a 1500 truck and in this case with a 3500 either.
Now in your case with a 2013 3500 SRW's it not saying anything about what you should do with a WD hitch. In 2012 they stated return the front end to unhitched front end height.
So now what? I have not yet found a trailer manufacture give out what is proper WD on a truck before. They have often stated you may need to use a WD hitch but not how to adjust it??? How does the trailer manufacture know what is right or not for "your" truck?
For reasons not yet understood, it is not clear on a 2013 GM HD from the manual what to do with WD and does the truck need it? Hopefully they will correct this confusing setup in future owners manuals. Prio to 2004, GM never said what to do with a WD hitch. Then from 2004 to 2012 it use to be return the front to unhitched height.
I use to tow with a 2003 K2500 Suburban with the torsion bar front end with the yellow jounce bumpers on the front end. Looks like these
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/Hitch%20Setup/2500FrontendstrokestopatWDengaged-2.jpg width=640
You really do not want to compress beyond unhitched hitched as the lower control arm will be working that jounce bumper pretty good. If your truck has these. I have not crawled under a 2013 HD yet to know if they still have the same front end.
For your Reese DC, you need enough load on the WD bars to create the high friction for antisway control.
Here is what I would try if this was my truck as a place to start, adjust as needed from here. Load truck bed too. This is were I am at with mine and Ford allowed me by the instructions for WD to do this.
I found that my F350 rode and controlled better 100 to approx 150# light on the front from unhitched. In my case I have a heavy tongue weight (1,600# with bikes and full water, 1,500# no bikes) and about 600# of bed weight. My rear helper springs just kiss the frame brackets and that makes a big difference. Those helper spring acts like a sway bar on the rear axle. When I run 100% load restoration the back of the truck was so high up in the suspension and soft the back of the truck rocked left to right worse then my K2500 Burb. Does yours have a rear axle sway bar or overloads on the springs? GM use to do rear springs different.
I suspect you may be some where around 75 to 80% of full front end load restoration with your Artic Fox and a 900# TW. Your camper is similar to my older one on the F350. I still ran the DC and the WD, just used 1,200# WD bar in place of my present 1,700#. The small camper had about 900 to 1,000# TW when I used it with the F350. It was setup in the same approx 75 to 80 % of full front end load restoration. Here is the older camper
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/F350%20and%20TT/F350-T2499.jpg
Oh and to comment about not using a WD hitch, your truck and hitch may be able and rated for that much TW with no WD, however odds are high it will tow smoother and more responsive with WD. I know mine will.
Good luck and hope this helps
John
Hi John,
This is great, thanks a lot! I will do what you did and add back about 80% of the weight back to the front end of the truck and it give it a go. I setup my DC for my last truck without issue so hopefully this goes equally smooth.
Thanks for outlining all the finer points as well, its good to understand why it has changed over the years.
Thanks for your help.
