I assume everyone saw this post? 71Cayo for sale...I posted that it appears to be collectors level coach..but 69 is so right...check for rot.
Excellent camper, very much original.
The drapes and the upholstery match mine. I never thought mine were original but that's too much of a coincidence.
Looks like someone added an outside electrical outlet. It's otherwise stock.
A couple of things.
If you're just pumping greywater, a shower pump like the Whale Gulper 220 is going to be a better choice than a macerator. Lighter, smaller, less power, faster flow, more reliable.
For blackwater you need a 3" gravity discharge line to deal with clogs. The marine guys get away with 1.5" because they use toilets with a 1.5" discharge and macerator features of their own instead of rv toilets with a 3" discharge. Sure you can use a 1.5" line to the macerator and it will usually work but if your grandkid flushes a great big ball of TP or a pair of underwear then what.
With that said the space taken by 3" plumbing is considerable and the availability of things like 3-way valves in this size is limited; what is out there is high buck. So I would suggest keeping it simple. You can use a short section of dump hose to connect the macerator inlet to the gravity drain and save yourself some complicated valving and piping. At which point you might want to use 3" cam lock fittings for your gravity dump connection instead of the more common valterra bayonet as the cam locks do not require turning the hose to lock it.
I am knee deep in $hit and frankly a little tired
thinking about it. What do yall think about
macerator pumps. The plan I am contemplating
would put a macerator right below the toilet.
and then with interesting valving dump either
into a transfer tank, as yet to be determined, or
out through a simple 3/4 inch water hose. The
gray and transfer tank(black) could also be
plumb and valved to the macerator intake allowing
a discharge of a varity of things as needs change and
clean the system.
Macerator pumps are more widely used on boats than RVs. There are some things to bear in mind:
1) They will clog and jam on tampons and on any rags or scraps of cloth that are inadvertently flushed.
2) They are heavy and produce vibration. Be sure that they're properly supported by something other than the piping, and use flexible connections to avoid damaging the piping from vibration.
3) They fail fairly often with the marine crowd reporting that replacement every 1-2 years is not uncommon. Plan your piping so that there is good access for replacement.
4) They draw a good deal of power, around 20a, so size your wiring and switch accordingly.
I considered going this route and ultimately decided against. I do have a "sewer solution" -- the water-jet powered macerator type pump -- which I use when dumping at home where I have city water available and a slight uphill run to the drain.
Another possibility to consider is a "shower pump" -- for greywater only. There are some clog-resistant diaphragm pumps that look promising for this.
Ogden Model A water filter.
Cartridges still available, look for General Ecology part RS-50g from ebay or other sources.
There is no doubt that an LP light will provide heat and in Alaska that would certainly be helpful. When these campers were built, there were no LP detectors or CO detectors available. If using one, I would make sure that I had a working CO and LP detector. An interior flame with not enough venting isn't a good combination. There is a reason that you usually don't see them anymore. For me, in AZ, I use LED lights, but I don't get the added benefit of the heat.
The btu/h rate of these lights isn't high enough to pose much of a concern. It's lower than a small stove burner. And unlike catalytic heaters, lights are meant to be shut off while sleeping. Propane lights have been in use for decades, and the permanently installed ones enjoy an excellent safety record.
In contrast, portable mantle lights, whether fueled by propane or white gas, are a fairly fruitful source of fires, burns, etc.
LP lights are really for decoration in the modern world.
I agree with Garry that the propane lights do have their place.
They are extremely reliable. As long as you don't break the mantle and you have propane they will work... and spare mantles are small and cheap. There is much more to go wrong with the 12v systems that can leave you with a dead battery and no light. And yes you get around 2000 btu/h of heat off them.
For extremely remote locations they have the advantage of being maintenance free while not in use. Mostly an advantage for remote cabins where you can leave the light and the propane system for months or years and it will work next time you get there.
I have a gas light in my farmhouse so that there is at least some light when the electricity goes out (rare). Something I can count on while fiddling around with flashlights generators etc.
To help clarify, we spend alot of time camping at my dads remote cabin. We are also used to using Coleman lanterns at the cabin out on an island off of Kodiak Island, that we go out to by boat. We carry everything in by boat, and out by boat. So we have been slowly buying up gas lanterns to retrofit the cabin to gas lamps vice using the Coleman lanterns. Coleman fuel is messy, and has to be refilled every night, and pumped up while in use in the long evenings in the fall and winter.
Perfect situation for them. I've been in those kinds of cabins.
I am trying to tie all my gray water (2 sinks and
shower) up together under the shower pan and go out
one hole through the floor. All I seem to
get away with is 1.25 pipe. Do yall
think this will drain?
It will work OK as long as it is vented from above. Too small though for a horizontal run vented only at the end or for a wet vent. 2" was original and would be a better choice. I was able to make mine fit with 2".
I don't find that it helps much, though it's quiet, or at least the bearings are. It does keep the furnace and the immediately surrounding area a little cooler. Part of my rationale for reducing the firing rate is that I want to leave the fan off.
And I've finished my grill mod.
For about a year now, I've had the Magma Cabo grill. They're expensive (usually around $200) but I got one on clearance at a West Marine store that was closing. The grill is great. It is small, has high heat, and is easy to disassemble for cleaning.
The grill came with a valve for use with disposable propane cylinders. I used it with a high-pressure hose and an Extend-a-Flow tee, one of the expensive ones with Acme threads.
The high pressure setup has just been a nuisance because liquid propane accumulates in the line overnight if it's left out due to the distillation effect when the line cools down faster than the tank. Then the regulator freezes up, or if we pack up to leave we have a dangerous amount of liquid propane stuck in the hose, at least what doesn't spray out when the thing is disconnected.
I've heard that frostbite from propane spray is the single largest cause of ER visits by cub scouts on camping trips, and I'm inclined to believe it.
So despite the considerable expense I decided to change to a low pressure system this spring.
First I had to get a low pressure propane valve directly from Magma. The Cabo uses the low-flow version of the valve.
The high-pressure valve snaps off (it's held by a spring retaining ring) and the low one goes in its place. I'll keep the high-pressure valve on hand along with a disposable 16 ounce propane cylinder for those occasional situations where we want to grill somewhere away from the trailer.
After checking around I got the low pressure hoses and fittings from TejasSmokers.com.
I'm using a 6" x 1/4" piece of pipe, and some neoprene lined clamps, to anchor the port to a piece of 1/2" thick oak stock. I painted the wood grey. The oak provides an anchor that can be riveted to the trailer to provide a secure attachment.
Water heater maintenance if you have the original....
A scan of an original owners manual, including an exploded parts diagram, is available here:
I've been having problems with the pilot blowing out and with excessive burner noise. I thought about replacing the whole thing. Measuring, it appears that a Suburban water heater would fit the opening with some patching, while an Atwood would not because it is too wide.
I decided to remove the burner assembly. Screws were rusted in place so I had to drill them out and replace them.
I tried to remove the burner housing. I was able to remove the screws (as shown) but it was stuck in place and wouldn't budge.
Nonetheless, I was able to wire brush the pilot and thermocouple assembly. I thoroughly wire brushed the inside of the burner and venturi with a round wire brush chucked into a drill. After reassembly, I installed a new screw to hold the air shutter in place since the one that was there was extending into the airflow and causing turbulence.
The air shutter didn't want to stay in its spot and so I've wrapped a zip tie around it for now. It doesn't ordinarily get hot.
The pilot burns much better and the burner is considerably quieter. Time will tell if this is enough to keep the pilot from blowing out which will determine whether the repair was worthwhile.
Does anyone know
why the Cayos like the OEM gas heater so much?
Just wrote an article on this the other day....
The Duo-therm Glen Aire vertical gravity furnace was used in certain Avion trailers, and C-11 pickup campers made under both the Avion and Cayo nameplate. It is the ideal boondocker's furnace since it requires no electricity. It is a sealed-combustion design that pulls in outside air through a concentric roof vent, making it superior in every way to catalytic heaters and even to the Panel-ray heater. Because it is controlled by a wall thermostat, it has advantages over the Newport Propane Fireplace made by Dickenson Marine.
These heaters are built to last and are worth saving.
Over the years the gas valves will stick, so the valve knob won't pop back up under spring pressure after lighting the pilot. The valves aren't repairable but are easy to replace. Also, these were manufactured as 18,000 BTU/h input (12,000 BTU/h rated ouptut) heaters. That's fine for larger trailers, but too much for the smaller trailers and the C-11, and will lead to large temperature swings. It is possible to reduce the firing rate.
This week I disassembled my furnace, cleaned it, and replaced the gas valve.
Suitable gas valves are readily available. It is important to use a low-profile valve that will fit the space. I used a Robertshaw 710-502 valve. This valve ships with a regulator intended for the lower pressures used with natural gas but can be converted to unregulated with cover place kit 1751-007. Or, there is a propane regulator available as part 1751-013. The original gas valve in these furnaces was unregulated, but using a regulated valve provides an easy way to reduce the firing rate if desired, by reducing the manifold pressure a little.
I needed a 1/2" input and 3/8" output. Usually the valves come with 1/2" taps in 3 directions and a set of reducing bushings and plugs.
I use and recommend supplyhouse.com as a parts source, but there are many places to order these.
The burner, pilot, valve, and baseplate assembly are removed from the heater as an assembly. Here are the steps:
1) remove the bottom access grill as you would when lighting the pilot.
2) Remove the two screws attaching the sheet metal diffuser housing and trim. Carefully remove the diffuser and trim by pulling up and out. There is a lip at the top that secures the assembly to the wall.
3) Remove the blower assembly and thermostatic switch. Though it is a tight fit it should just slide out. It may be necessary to remove a screw holding the thermostatic switch in place.
4) Shut off the propane supply and bleed the lines, either by lighting a stovetop burner, or by venting them outdoors in a safe location.
5) Disconnect the flare nut holding the copper supply line to the valve, using a backup wrench on the fitting.
6) Remove the thermostat wires from the gas valve.
7) While supporting the valve, remove four nuts holding the base plate to the heat exchanger.
8) Carefully lower the valve, burner, and baseplate assembly.
Some units may have an asbestos seal between the baseplate and the heat exchanger. Don't disturb it or used compressed air on the gasket. I cleaned the burner outside, trying to disturb the gasket as little as possible.
The pilot and thermopile generator can be replaced at this point if necessary. Mine was still good.
There was quite a bit of rust and debris that came out of the heat exchanger. I vacuumed it up with a shop vac. I inspected the interior of the heat exchanger with a mirror and also put a light inside to check for cracks or pinholes.
I removed the gas valve and output elbow, and installed the new gas valve using a paste type pipe dope suitable for gas. Rectorseal is my favorite but they don't carry it at Menards. I used the top outlet, which makes for an easier pilot light run but required me to extend the supply line by a couple inches so it would reach.
I was able to re-use the aluminum pilot line by cleaning it up, gently re-bending it using a tubing jig, and connecting it to the new location.
Showing the original valve just after removing the baseplate and burner assembly. The blower assembly has been slid out to the left.
After cleaning the burner and replacing the valve, I testing the assembly by setting it on a mop bucket and connecting a low-pressure propane line I use for my gas grill. The burner itself is heavy cast iron and will last for centuries.
Note how the pilot line has been rerouted.
At this point I also leak-tested all the fittings using a commercial bubble-producing gas leak test solution.
Reinstalled in the furnace. Everything just fits, but I had to add a swivel and union to the gas line for it to reach. Had I used the original setup with the outlet to the right and then an elbow, the gas line would have reached but the pilot line would have been difficult to route.
So, as I noted upthread, 18,000 BTU is way too much for my C-11 and it makes for wild temperature swings at night, very noticeable when sleeping on the cabover bed. I experimented with the firing rate while the burner was on the mop bucket, and the burner will still ignite reliably and burn clean at much lower rates. There are two ways to reduce the firing rate. One is to change to a smaller orifice. That would be easy enough to do while everything's apart since the orifice is a standard one and readily accessible. The other way is to reduce the manifold pressure.
Again, the original stock setup used an unregulated valve so the manifold pressure was 11", give or take whatever the tank regulator was kicking out. For the time being I have left the natural gas regulator in the valve in place. At its factory setting, 3.5", there was clearly not enough heat. The regulator is easy to adjust with just a screwdriver and I've turned it up about as far as it will go. I haven't measured the gas pressure but it's probably 6-8" or so. I have a propane regulator on order, which comes with a stiffer spring so it can be set for higher pressures, but it's unclear whether I'll use it. It's easy to install without removing the gas valve from the furnace, just a matter of 4 screws.
I ran the furnace for a while this morning and on a 45 degree day was able to get it up to 80 degrees inside, so we'll have plenty of heat for any weather we'll encounter between now and the end of October. When winter weather returns I'll try the furnace in cold Minnesota conditions and decide whether to make any changes.
Guys I will soon be dropping the rear cover so I can access the rotted wood in the rear floor section. As I peak into the side opening cover I see the existing holding tank which looks like previous owners have cobbled some leak repairs. I believe the factory black tank is difficult to repair and from the initial peek through the cover this one might be toast.
I have had good luck with my repairs, though they were time consuming.
The original tank has a raised section that the toilet mounts to, is there any problem if I replace the tank with a rectangular tank and have the waste pipe dump into the side of the tank ? Or should I have it dump into the top of the tank ?
RV toilets have to be mounted to the top of the tank. If you have the waste pipe enter the side of the tank it will clog.
If I go that route I won't have to rebuild such a high raised platform for the toilet to sit on, that would allow a toilet that is taller.
There are plenty of short toilets available.
I have found some used aluminum tanks locally that are 39 " long x 15 " wide by 8 " high that will fit under the rear cover. That's about 22 gallons which will just be black water. I think I can get two of them in there and have 22 gallons each for black and grey. Am I crazy or is this doable ? The tanks I found are dirt cheap so easily worth trying.
You may be able to fit the tanks in there but I would be surprised if you can do so and still have room for the dump valves, shower trap, and other plumbing. Remember that the sink drain has to pass the black tank on its way to the greywater tank so you'll lose a couple of inches for that. Think about how you're going to place dump valves and T them together -- they use quite a bit of space.
Is your Avion that was painted "silver" to make it have a consistent finish? O r am I confusing you with someone else? I do know there is a C-10 running around that has a beautiful silver paint job that simulates the anodized aluminum color, and is absolutely beautiful, but that is almost as hard to maintain as a fully polished Avion...
Mine was stripped and clearcoated by the Cayo Repair Service about 10 years ago. A few panels have been replaced and there is a slight difference in color. No paint though.
I also wanted to ask everyone, where are you guys buying your Olympic rivets? Since I live on an island in Alaska, it is hard for me to source things from a "store front" so I have to on-line order. and I would like to find a reputable place before trying the "trial and error" method...
Vintage Trailer Supply and Out-of-doors Mart are both highly reputable and reasonably good to work with. I've used both.