RE: You ever met a guy who actually lived & breathed diesel?
Also, it's too bad there aren't any forward thinking individuals in our government.
Oh, they are forward thinking alright. Thinking about the next election and how to finance their campaign.
Too true. That's about all they are good for.
RE: You ever met a guy who actually lived & breathed diesel?
I, too, am anxiously waiting for this engine. I've been around diesel engine design for 15 years and am impressed with what Ford has come up with.
Also, it's too bad there aren't any forward thinking individuals in our government.
RE: They are on their way
http://www.allpar.com/news/
I do love red pickups, have to say the Dodge's dually fenders look a lot better than Fords new dually's.
Except it will be cheaper to fix a Ford dually fender than a Dodge.
RE: Very interesting, 2010 emission compliance choices
I've heard, from very good sources, that Intl. is having trouble getting their engines to meet emissions, even with credits. My DEF supplier has been supplying the Intl. Tech Ctr with DEF for nearly 4 months now. He's 99% sure they are working on Plan B.
The underhood rat's nest of their trucks will surely keep many fleets from buying.
RE: Hmm, Pee will save the planet?
DEF will also be available in multiple bottle and canister sizes, so it cab be stored in the vehicle or in a garage. It has a one to two year shelf life, depending on temperature."
I've been buying it in 2.5 gallon jugs, 55 gal. barrels, and 275 gal. totes. It does come in 1 gal. sizes also. It will always be cheaper in bulk by nearly 1/6. The TA's I've called are selling 2.5 gal. containers for nearly $15 while their at-pump prices are $2.65/gal.
RE: Hmm, Pee will save the planet?
My Cummins does not need this inferior technology. Once again the mighty Cummins shows it's dominance.
Is this because Cummins has "EPA credits" they can use so they were able to push out until 2012 to be compliant?
No, it's because their engine meets the tailpipe emmission standard without the extra equipment. Simply put, their engine burns cleaner.
Hmmm, Maybe you should read this,
Recently Cummins announced that their 2010 Heavy Duty engines would NOT use SCR to meet NOx emissions. Cummins stated that 2010 heavy-duty engines will use no NOx aftertreatment, relying on technologies such as 'the XPI High Pressure Common Rail (HPCR) fuel system, next-generation cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), advanced electronic controls, proven air handling and the Cummins Particulate Filter'. Missing from this announcement was the significant fact that Cummins must use banked NOx credits from current production engines to offset NOx emissions from the 2010 engines that will in fact exceed 0.2 g/bhp-hr.
After completely missing the point of this post before, I will point out the last sentence in the paragraph above shows why the 2007 and above Dodge CTD is 2010 compliant. No other reason to produce an emissions level before it's due than to gather credits for other products. The engine refered to above is the 15l ISX.
RE: Hmm, Pee will save the planet?
Hmmm, Maybe you should read this,
Recently Cummins announced that their 2010 Heavy Duty engines would NOT use SCR to meet NOx emissions. Cummins stated that 2010 heavy-duty engines will use no NOx aftertreatment, relying on technologies such as 'the XPI High Pressure Common Rail (HPCR) fuel system, next-generation cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), advanced electronic controls, proven air handling and the Cummins Particulate Filter'. Missing from this announcement was the significant fact that Cummins must use banked NOx credits from current production engines to offset NOx emissions from the 2010 engines that will in fact exceed 0.2 g/bhp-hr.
This news is over a year and half old. There's newer news here...
http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2008/08cummins.php
RE: Hmm, Pee will save the planet?
I bet it smells real good when burned!! :E
No odor at all. If you smell anything it will be an ammonia smell and that means the slip catalyst isn't doing its job.
RE: Hmm, Pee will save the planet?
My Cummins does not need this inferior technology. Once again the mighty Cummins shows it's dominance.
Is this because Cummins has "EPA credits" they can use so they were able to push out until 2012 to be compliant?
No, it's because their engine meets the tailpipe emmission standard without the extra equipment. Simply put, their engine burns cleaner.
Wrong. The Dodge utilizes a NOx adsorber behind the dpf to take care of the additional NOx in the exhaust stream. Cummins engines don't run any cleaner than any other engine. The reason why they chose to make the 2007 Dodge 2010 compliant is to get EPA credits for their big bore engines, which at that time, were slated to use massive EGR to meet 2010. Now, Cummins will use SCR in all on-road applications for all engines except Dodge pickups. Even the Dodge cab/chassis trucks will use SCR.
RE: Hmm, Pee will save the planet?
My Cummins does not need this inferior technology. Once again the mighty Cummins shows it's dominance.
And your Dodge is the only Cummins powered vehicle that will not use this inferior technology.
RE: Cost of 2010 compliant diesels
I wonder how long before Hypertech or someone else has a hack to eliminate the need for filling the DEF tank...
My guess: within a month after getting their hands on a test truck. They can sell them alongside their "Kalifornia smog check" tunes. :)
(I love my all-mechanical Cummins.)
It will be pretty tough to beat this system. It also employs OBDII and the inducement strategies that come along with it. Most states with safety and emissions inspections will most likely add the 2010 diesels to their smog checks instead of safety only.
RE: Cost of 2010 compliant diesels
EPA 2010 vehicles equipped with Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) technology will use Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Diesel Exhaust Fluid, also called DEF, is a solution made up of purified water and 32.5 percent automotive-grade urea that is used as a carrying agent for the ammonia needed to reduce nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions from vehicles into nitrogen, water and carbon dioxide (CO2).
Diesel Exhaust Fluid is monitored for quality and certified by the American Petroleum Institute, ensuring that Diesel Exhaust Fluid is a stable, non-toxic, odorless and completely safe solution. The urea used for Diesel Exhaust Fluid is automotive-grade. Urea in additional forms is widely distributed for many other industrial and agricultural needs, including emissions control at public utilities and power plants.
Four factors about Diesel Exhaust Fluids contribute to the viability of SCR:
• Availability
• Purity and quality
• Transportation and distribution
• Dispensing equipment and packaging
Commitments are in place to ensure that Diesel Exhaust Fluid is available in more than 1,800 locations in North America by 2010, including:
• Daimler Trucks North America support network
• Detroit Diesel Engine support network
• Volvo Truck dealerships
• Mack Truck dealerships
• Peterbilt Truck dealerships
• Kenworth Truck dealerships
• Cummins Engine support network - check out the Fleetguard Diesel Exhaust Fluid Usage Calculator
• Select truck stops
and i have a bottle of it sitting on my desk
Don't forge Ford and GM and DODGE dealerships.
RE: It ain't FAIR!
If us North Americans didn't think that diesels were dirty, smelly, and noisy, we might have them over here to. Thanks GM for spoiling a good thing!
RE: Cost of 2010 compliant diesels
As far as being biased. Yes, I am biased toward techologies that prove to be beneficial to the environment as well as the consumer.
Rob, thats a great attitude, and I agree. But the attack on Dodge's DPF vs. future urea systems is simply a brand name bias since they will all meet the same strict standards.
Mav
I only attacked the Dodge system because it was called "superior" by someone else. Even though it does accomplish the same thing as a SCR system, I'd hardly call it "superior" due to it's drawbacks. Hopefully, in due time, I will be able to bash SCR systems when a better technology emerges. Right now, it looks like DME or Bio DME is on the forefront.
RE: Cost of 2010 compliant diesels
The NOx adsorber is a perfectly fine technology for certain applications. Cummins chose to use it BEFORE the need to because it wanted the emissions credits it would accumulate with each sale so it wouldn't have to make their big bore engines meet the same regs when January 1, 2010 came around. Since Urea SCR requires DEF, and DEF wasn't in place 3 years ago, they went with what would work well at the time. NOx adsorbers aren't perfect since they require heavy use of EGR. EGR is detrimental to fuel economy and the engines run hotter. The catalyst must be regened the same as the DPF. With SCR, engines can use less EGR whick improves fuel economy. Less EGR also means less soot formation. This fact together with the fact that soot oxidizes at a much lower temperature in a NO2 rich environment, the dpf can be cleaned passively without the need for additonal fuel. When the engine is properly tuned, the amount of soot produced equals the amount of soot oxidized in the filter.
Currently, DEF costs less than .006 cents/mile. The typical tank size on a pickup will be approx. 8-12 gallons. Pilot, TA, and Petro all have locations with DEF already. By the time the new trucks are on dealer lots, you will be able to purchase it nearly everywhere. With 5 of 6 heavy truck OEMs using SCR, the availability will not be a problem. SCR has been used in Europe for the last 4 years. This is NOT a new technology.
As far as being biased. Yes, I am biased toward techologies that prove to be beneficial to the environment as well as the consumer.
RE: Cost of 2010 compliant diesels
And what does your tail pipe sniffing mind draw from your overly biased and probably flawed conclusion?
You're saying that Dodge's system isn't as clean as GM or Fords? I hope not, because if you are, I'll have to call you a name that starts with s and ends in tupid. :)
Mav
And what amount of intelligence can you bring to the conversation? Just as I thought, not much. Instead, you try to attack a person's character by calling them biased and stupid. Brilliant.
RE: Good news for Cummins and Dodge
Anyway, lets get back to the topic (the award won by the 6.7L Cummins diesel) shall we?
What do you care? According to your profile, you don't drive one of these award winning engines.
RE: Cost of 2010 compliant diesels
Given the fact that I've been testing heavy duty diesel emissions systems for more than 12 years, I'd say I have more facts from pure experience than anyone with a fist full of links to industry rags. I draw my conclusions from test results based on thousands of hours and millions of miles of real world testing.
