ktmrfs, I have the straight cam chain holders, and they are positioned correctly.
mrekim, your drawing (and it's very artistic!), is correct as to how the new s-ups fit on the frame. I wonder why they can't make them square to the frame like the old ones are. Maybe it's an intended engineering design!! That would be a hoot!!
Attached are pics of the frame, inside and out (outside is straight), and the old snap ups, and a pic of the last setup with 1000# bars. On the s-ups pics you can see the slight bend at the bottom of the s-up that was on the left side.
On the inside frame pic, you can see old evidence of the snap up sliding to the rear, that did not happen in this incident.
Yes, the snap up is bent slightly outward, and evenly across, just below the sides where it hinges. The upper piece that goes over the frame, and the pinch bolt is in, is not bent. at all. My older s-ups do not have any holes. I believe the holes are fairly recent construction. I'll add a pic of the bent one tomorrow.
Just finished commenting on my earlier post about my snap up problem. Thought I'd throw in a comment about your last post.
I have read other posts before that say "when in a turn all the WD lift is applied to one snap up" and I politely disagree! The bars have two almost equal bends, and when one is going forward, the other is moving back and has to be applying an almost equal force to its snap up. I would bet that if there were a method of measuring that force, the 2 would be very close.
Just another thought, if there weren't a space on the inside between the snap up and the frame, I believe that there would be almost no occurrences of bent snap ups and frames, with the possible exception of bar to head or bar to cam arm jamming. Maybe Cequent should make a different snap up for the common frame width on today's trailers, or some sort of filler to spread the load.
I never had any interference with the ball mount, or the cam arms on my old round bar assy like the trunnion type seem to have somewhat regularly. My coupler is bottom mounted, and there is mucho clearance. That is one reason I am leaning toward the new bar paint against a rough cam (and probably not the same wear area) causing the excessive forces when the snapping or banging occurred.
Again, just thinking and mumbling!!
Have a great week!
John, my DC is the late model HP, have had it on since '04, with 750# & 1000# round bars with no problems with either. I'll try to get some pics if the weather holds up tomorrow.
I find it hard to believe that the new 1200# bars would require frame reinforcement if not for the indentation. My opinion is the paint jamming the bar and putting excessive down force on the cam or jamming for a slight moment and then releasing explosively, pulling at the snap up sharply and bending it at the bottom and pulling the bolt hard against the inside frame, thus the dent.
This new paint is very thick, and comes off in pretty thick (for a paint film) pieces. One time, just for yucks (!!), I used some light grease on the 1K bars to see if there was any difference in feel. Halfway through a 200+ mile trip, dirt and metal dust from the bars and cams built up on the bars and the noise level and snapping in turns increased a great deal. Cleaning off both stopped the roughness and the noise level was almost zero. Thus my case for the paint on old cams being a major culprit in this. I never thought that I should remove or reduce the amount of paint on the bars where they ride on the cams before using. I would ass-ume that a new smooth cam and new bar would work together smoothly and wear in together.
I also understand your reasoning for not using the bolt to pinch against the outside frame, although in a perfect situation (like I'm sure Cequent thinks with the tapping screw!!) there would never be a problem with the idea!! I'll have to decide before Spring what method to mount the snap ups, the damage is minor, no other bending or denting on the left side, and the right has only a mark from the bolt being tightened.
I have been following mrekim's thread, and any thread with DC problems. As I wrote, I have never had any problems with the snap ups, even with the 1000# bars for the last 3+ yrs. His much more severe damage with the associated necessary repairs made me think about other fixes after discovering the problem.
Not meaning to be argumentive, just rambling and thinking out loud!!
Having towed for 10 yrs with my old round bar DrawTite hitch, I have never had any of the "common" dual cam problems, ie: broken cams, cracked cast heads (trunnion of course!), or the famous bent snap up or chain brackets. Until yesterday!!
Cequent recently replaced my old round bar hitch with a complete new 1200# kit (see previous post on cracked round bar head). Sat morning, I installed new head on draw bar, hooked up without bars, went to a level parking lot that I have used in the past. Unhooked, measured both ball height on trailer and unhooked ball height on Excursion. Ex was approx 1/2" higher than level trailer ball height, just as should be. Installed bars, did preliminary adj to cams, readjust ball mount angle, and got the bars reasonably close to "perfection", as if there really is a perfect setting with a dual cam!!
Headed home around a longer route to get a feel for the new hitch. First turn out of parking lot, sounded like someone took a shot next to me!! I figured that was to be expected on new bars on worn cams. Needed to make aboot 6 turns, mostly left, to get home. Each turn, in either direction was the same, a grinding and then a huge bang that could be felt through the Ex like you hit a pothole at 60mph. OK, some embellishment (!!), but I know the dual cams can be noisy, but the old set up never was like this.
This new hitch is very pretty, shiny, looks like they are using an epoxy paint. I believe the new paint was being ground off and building up between the cam and the bar ramp. Home, I unhooked, and found the left snap up (old style) loose. It was bent slightly at the bottom and the bolt dented the inside of the frame about 1/16". The right side was ok, and tight. On the trip home, left turns were 4 to 2, and it seemed that the left turn was the noisiest.
Now, the new hitch came with the new heavy duty snap ups, and this may not have happened if I had put them on, but I was going to wait since I may have to move the bottles slightly since the new ones are wider and the old ones tucked right up side the bottle pan. Also, in checking them today, I found that the new ones don't mount squarely to the frame, they have a slight rocking motion when placed (not permanently) on the frame. Anybody noticed this before??
I am going to bolt the new ones on, but I thought about a different method other than just drilling one hole for a self tapping bolt. What would the gang here think about drilling a hole on the inside of the frame just larger than the pinch bolt and then running it all the way into the frame and tightening on the inside of the outer frame. Being just under the top of the frame, it would seem to me to have a stronger attachment and resistance to twisting forces.
There was a string on the Jayco forum discussing the attachment of the snap ups on Jaycos. In fact, in the latest installation pdf, Cequent states if you have a Jayco with a bottom mounted coupler you should bolt on with one bolt. They also stated to a site member that the snap ups only needed the one bolt near the top center since it is the strongest place to put it!
Love to hear any comments on my idea from the hitch and dual cam experts.
PS: Jury is still out on the new style round bar system!! Old one was fast hook up, didn't have to drop chains, but now have to to swing the bars in towards the trailer. Oh well, that's progress!!
The wear is actually to the rear of the mount at the angle of the bars to the trailer frame. The tubes have been pulled up slightly and back, you can see a slight bending on the bottom of the mount side view. The front of the "ovaled" holes is the normal front edge of the mount hole. It does appear that the wear is to the front, but it's not.
HouseApe, yes there was wear on the backside of the bars. BUT, the tubes didn't have 1/4 as much. The tubes were being pulled back by the bars since they were mostly cracked through, causing the oblong holes in the bottom of the head.
The pics of the 2 bars are the 1K bars, and have much more wear than the 750# which is the 2 last pics. The 1K bars have a good amount of scoring on the back side from wearing the holes out. Also, the 750# bars show 7+ yrs of wear vs 3 yrs on the 1K's.
Yes, I would expect some more wear with the stronger bars, if I was running them at their rated load, not at 75%. And the heads are the same exact part for all ratings of this hitch.
Since this type is no longer made, Cequent sent the newest (1200#) which uses a cast head and different way of bar retention. Hopefully, the new style will hold up better.
In my towing history, I have used Draw-Tite and Reese hitches since the mid '60s. I have been very satisfied with their performance and durability. This post is not intended to blast or slam the products, but to highlite a recent problem and compliment Cequent on their response to the problem.
I have been towing with a Draw-Tite round bar WD assembly for over 10 years. Recently, after a 1 month trip back to MN and down to CO and home, I found cracks and excessive wear in the head and bars when cleaning up the hitch for repainting. The cracks are where the tubes that the bars fit into meet the "frame" metal of the head. This allowed the force of the bars to wear into the botom of the frame.
I contacted Cequent and then e-mailed pics of the damage after a brief conversation with a very courtous rep. I have included parts of the e-mail and some of the pics that were involved:
"Here are pictures of the hitch head showing the cracks and "wear" that has occurred, that I talked with you about earlier today. More pics can be taken if needed.
History: 3202 (750) hitch assy was purchased June of 2003 for use on a 2004 Pioneer 19T4 travel trailer. That trailer had a GVWR of 6100#, and a tongue weight of approx 532# (published). We added a Dual Cam HP sway control in July of 2004. In June of 2010, we purchased a Jayco 24FBS trailer that had a GVWR of 7000# and a tongue weight of 580# (published). I have scaled it at 780-790# loaded. After one tow with the 750# bars, I got a set of 1000# bars from my son, which were about 2 yrs newer than my original bars. I also have his orig head (not used), which is the same as mine. I have lubed both the ball and the bars before each trip. We have used each trailer approx 10-12 times each year here in Washington State. We just recently completed a 4 week, 4900 mile trip to the midwest and back home.
I have probably cleaned and painted the hitch head twice in the 10 years we have had it, the last time was when switching to the 1000# bars. At that time I can't say I saw any cracks or excessive wear. I noticed the cracks and wear this morning during a cleaning for repainting after our midwest trip. The bars also show more wear than I have normally seen. I am also including pics of the 750 bars that I still have, and the wear on those is pretty much what I have seen on the 1000's until today. I am leaning towards the problem showing up or occurring during the trip in August.
As to installation, since the Jayco is somewhat higher than the Pioneer, I have the head at max tilt, and the cam arm chains are at 7 links. When hooked up, on a level surface, my bars do tilt up from horizontal a small amount. I have been towing with an Excursion this season, before that a Suburban. Both vehicles had the ball height set to tow either of the trailers in a level stance with the chains adjusted to bring the front fender height back to within 1/2 to 3/4" from the unloaded height. Other than the 4 week "interstate" trip, we generally tow on 2 lane roads to the mountains in our area and up a few miles of unpaved, Forest Service roads.
Pics are from 1st to last: rt side tube base, left side tube base, rt side from bottom, left side from bottom, left side upper, rt side upper, rt side full view, 1000# bars from back, from front, and the last 3 are a left side 750# bar.
I would appreciate your opinion on what has occurred with this head, and what can be done about this as to warranty issues. I am available at all times for phone conversations and check e-mail fairly regularly.
Thank you in advance for your help in this."
On trips to the mountains before the Aug trip back east, I did not suspect or see anything that would have alerted me to these cracks. I lube the bars at the wear points, and did not notice any excessive wear. As stated in the email to Cequent, the cracks and the additional wear was noticed when cleaning the head after we returned from our Aug trip. We hit many poor roads and freeways!! Some of the bridge approaches and "exits' were terrible, sharp and very shocking to the suspension and hitch. I25 through Colorado Springs was one of the roughest few miles I have ever seen. It is my feeling that at sometime in the trip the cracks occured, and the excess wear started. No proof, but I can't think of anything else in our trips that would have had the capability of causing these cracks.
Cequent, after reviewing the pics and another phone conversation, replaced the whole assy with a new 1200# round bar kit. They were not totally sure of the cause, basically felt that the hitch was overloaded!! BUT, they honored the lifetime warranty and provided a new assy. Again, the rep was very courtous and helpful during this exchange. Only thing I had to do was return the head and bars (prepaid) for their inspection.
Now my intention is not to start a rambling thread (with the usual extra snipes and slams!!), but to inform all of you of this problem that I had and the positive response of the manufacturer. I would recommend any of you out there that have a round bar assy with the welded steel head to inspect closely for possible cracks.
I know this post will elicit many responses, and I will try to answer any questions that may be asked. Again, please take this as a positive informational post.
We use the 7 gal blue jugs for extra water on longer boonie trips. I purchased one of these to pump from jug to trailer tank:
You might be able to find locally, maybe for more moola though!! When I got mine, 4 yrs ago, I paid aboot $7. They have gone up a bit!!
I just take a folding camp table (those cheap white ones), set the jug on it and the pump will empty it in about 6-7 mins. Don't think the pump will lift from the ground, and the hose is too short, so the table. Lifting the full jug is no worse than loading into the truck when heading out. Batteries usually last a camping season. Simple and cheap also.
The furnace is probably the highest amp user of all the 12v stuff in an rv. And, of course, the warmer you want it to be, the more it will be on. Another battery will help, you would probably have made it to Fri afternoon or evening!! The battery that the dealer put in is usually a lower priced, lower capacity than you really need. 2 6v's are a great combo, and 2 quality 12v's will do almost as much, and maybe more than 2 cheap 6v's.
We have two, 4 yr old Costco 6 volts in our trailer, they usually will go 3 to 4 days in the weather you experienced this last weekend. We have a small generator that only goes with us in the spring and fall, or on week long trips to the mountains. It is used for charging the batts up and an occasional microwave popcorn snack!! We have gone 7 to 8 days without a charge in the summer and warmer weather.
As to led bulbs, they are a great idea, but another expense, in my opinion. I have changed out all the interior bulbs to lower candlepower ones. Only one in the bathroom is an original since the wife likes it brighter in there. We also have a fluorescent fixture over the sink. And in the evenings (if stuck inside!), we use a couple of led bulb-ed lanterns. As to heater at night, usually set only at 55 degs and lots of warm blankets and 2 boxers!!
Your vehicle should have leaf rear springs and torsion bar front end.
I'm assuming that you want to add a rear sway bar, since I'm sure that there is a front bar. A Hellwig kit should include all brackets, mounts, bushings, etc with instructions for installation. Not having an oem rear bar would only be pertinent to the ordering process.
As to why there is no rear (again, assumption) bar has to due with the suspension package or options that any truck may have. Not all trucks have rear bars. On Fords, it is usually part of a package or option such as an FX4 or with upgraded tow package.
Terryallen: "It appears you have never camped in a BRP CG. It is so quiet you can hear a propane lantern burning 100 yards away."
Well, I haven't camped in a BRP CG, I try to stay away from the east and all it's liberals!! BUT, we do camp, boondock, almost 100% of the time in the mountains of WA and OR (that's Washington State and Oregon to those who may be confused!) at elevations anywhere from 5000 to 7000 ft. I can hear the same lantern, Elk bugling, coyotes and wolves calling, wild turkeys gobbling, etc, etc. And I can occasionally hear a generator off in the distance, and they can maybe hear mine when in use. That's life in the woods.
Just completed a 4 week trip back to MN (Minnesota, ok) and did stay at many private fhu CG's, and no, I didn't hear any nasty gennys running. I DID hear lots of kids yelling, dogs barking, people yelling at each other, vehicles running in and out of the CG, etc, etc!! Drowned out all those woodsy sounds.
As you may have read from another poster, sounds like generator noise is not the major cause of the lack of campers at your previously favorite CG. I am sure the generator users have not caused the drop in monies needed for your states CG maintenance and road maintenance. That's just ridiculous to blame them.
Come out west if you want peace and quiet, it's wonderful. Just get over people using generators when they feel it is needed.
Terryallen: "Result is. CGs like Julian Price that stayed full all the time, Are now mostly empty, and run down from lack of use. No one there but a few of the generator crowd. But it only takes one to disturb the entire place."
So it's the "generator crowd" that is responsible for the demise of that CG and will be of many others!!! Now that is really using your animosity to make a stupid point!!! Couldn't be the economy, or fuel prices, right???
Well, we will be spending 2 nights at Racetrack NF campground in a few days. Part of a 5 wk trip back to MN and down to CO.
I expect the campground to a nice, typical Nat Forest site, and we are looking forward to the short stay.
Those of you (!!!) who may wonder about the campground(like we did), will have find out yourselves!!!!!
Sometimes they just go away!!!
A week or so ago, I responded to a thread in the Do it yourself, modifications section about finding a used air conditioning unit for an older trailer (IIRC). Poster was in the Northwest somewhat near me, so I searched CraigsList and found 3 or 4 in various locations. I responded with a link to the search engine I used and a couple of city names where there were ads. Next day, no thread!!! Don't know if the person ever read it or found an A/C.
Why the thread went away, ??? No reprimand from the mod of the forum, nothing.
I know that threads have been shot down if you post a "competing" website, but CraigsList??? I often see people putting links in for products or reviews, etc. I can't believe that the mod thought I was selling on here, but who knows.
As I said, sometimes they just go away!!!
I first tried to get a print of the roof joists soon after we bought the trailer, but back then Jayco must have had a very un-personable person on the phones!! She said since it was under warranty they would not send me the prints. Since then, and while still under warranty, I have gotten 5 or 6 various prints to help with projects and/or ideas. With no hassles from the customer service rep each time.
I used a stud finder to locate any framing up in the ceiling, found the cross joists easily, and also found a couple of ones running front to back between a pair of joists. This was just forward of the ceiling light obove the foot of the bed. After building up my courage, I drilled a small hole near the supposed intersection of two joists. Probed with a wire and felt very confident that it was framed for a 14" vent. Then just cut away slowly and carefully till it was opened up, and found a perfect vent spot!!
Then drilled up through the roof to locate the corners when up top, sliced and X from corner to corner in the rubber roof, then cut the plywood out and installed the vent. Really was very easy once the joists were located.
I am sure that you can get a print of the roof framing by calling or using their website. They will require the VIN of the trailer and some further info, and will e-mail you a pdf of the print.
I have electrical, back wall, bath wall, and plumbing prints. Back wall since I am toying with installing a window in the bath above the stool.
Glad you like your TT, esp after our pm conversations before you purchased.
As to some of your concerns:
"The triple entry steps flex more than I like when you step on the bottom step."
Yep, they do, but in 3 yrs of ownership ( I'm aboot 230#), ours haven't shown any problems, feel the same, but no worse and no damage. I have tightened up the mntg bolts once, but they weren't very loose at all.
"I wish there was another roof vent toward the front of the trailer."
The roof is framed for one over the bed, only thing not there is wiring for a vent fan if you wanted one, but you can pull power from the ceiling light right next to the area. I installed one, was very easy, and it does make for much more ventilation inside.
"I wish the trailer had a “screw in” type electrical cord, rather than the “pull out of the port” kind."
Major point!!! Wait till the cord jams on itself inside the small area they provided for it to be pushed into. Even with careful storing, I have had it jam twice since new. Unless you have very tiny fingers and long skinny arms, you will have to take off the cover to gain enough room to "un-jam". Also, no way into the cord area without dismantling the cabinet below the tv area!! I installed a lockable door in place of the round access door, about 6"X8" so if jammed agin, I can reach inside and free up!! Did mention it is locking!!
"The water pump is kinda loud."
Common, lots of strings on how to quiet down. I also added an accumulator in the closet by the water heater, that helps a lot. We boondock almost 100% so the pump is used a lot.
"Wish the trailer had a digital thermostat."
Did that, makes a world of difference and comfort. Again, lots of strings on doing this, very easy. Search for "Hunter".
"A larger gray tank would be nice."
Definitely!! Don't understand why they don't add capacity esp when they upped the fresh water capacity in 2011. But, a whole lot of people camp at full hookups, and would not really have a problem with this. We tend to "cheat' with the gray water out in the boonies. Sure to start a fight over that statement!!!!!
"The front downspouts for the gutters on the side of the trailer drip directly over the front storage doors. So when it’s raining and water is streaming out of the gutters, it’s right in the way of accessing the storage compartment."
Don't have any problem with this over here in the "Dry Cities"!!!! But if so, I just stay inside!!!!!
Slideout is pretty ingenious, works very well. Our sons 26 Jayco with a big slide is the same way, flush floor. But a lot of weight on the slideout arm when extended and using the dinette. Again, no problems so far.
Glad you like you unit, and again, glad to have helped with you decision back then!!