RE: Ford 6.2L gas V8 power figures released
Might you guys be missing the obvious? Repetitions of merely moving a mass/masses (legs/internal engine components) requires energy to be spent. The faster the repetitions occur, the more energy percentage is lost to the moving resistance of the "non-distance made good" energy consumption scenario. It takes lots of energy to merely move the masses alone. There's nothing mysterious or magical as to making items move. It's totally calculable and has been for eons. Speed wastes energy as a ratio to work accompolished and additionally increases wear to the components employed. It is NOT a linear relationship in the least. It's a lost efficiency quite sharp curve which ends at the point where the lines cross. Refer to known Physics and mechanical engineering basics and you'll have learned something.
From the standpoint of a gear that would be true but an internal combustion engine is MORE efficient at higher RPM's not less. This in due to changes in volumetric efficiency, lower vacuum in the intake, etc. Generally this would be around the torque peak of the engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency
RE: Ford 6.2L gas V8 power figures released
I wish folks who quote me would take the time to read and comprehend my words. :R
And to use diesel engines as an example, one of the most reliable and arguable THE longest lasting engine ever put in a pickup is of course the old 12 valve 5.9L Cummins. "Old tech" proven reliable and long lasting yet again.
A race car can go faster than my wife's car, but will it last 100,000 miles? I'm talking reliability and longevity here, not performance. Of course a higher HP, higher Torque, truck will perform better than a lower HP/torque old tech truck when new. I want to know how long it will LAST. Hindsight is of course 20/20. In 10 years when we look back, we will have a pretty good idea.
24 valve Cummins aren't exactly dropping like flys either. Do you think diesels were better before turbos? Once upon a time turbos were new & greatly increased power output. Engineering continues to improve, overall reliability continues to improve. 30 years ago most engines were lucky to reach 200k miles, many were replaced before 100k miles. Now people expect 200k miles as a minimum. I think Ford uses 350k miles as their current design goal. From the article "How Cabbies Get 300K from the Ford CVPI."
http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/articlearchive/details.aspx?ID=373
According to a Police Fleet Manager survey, 43% of fleet managers keep the Ford CVPI in-service between 80K and 100K miles and another 43% hold the cars to between 100K and 120K miles. From here, Checker Cab puts another 200K miles on the car without extraordinary maintenance, and without profit-robbing break-downs.
How does old tech compare? From the article "Measure Field Reliability with Statistics."
http://www.plant-maintenance.com/articles/field_reliability.shtml
Figure 1 shows the field reliability estimated from the ships and returns data in table 1. It shows two reliability functions, one for the age at first warranty return and one for the age between subsequent returns. The probability of drivetrain's being returned in the first month was more than 15% initially and 18% subsequently. The former indicates that many were defective practically from delivery. The latter indicates that the problems didn't get fixed. The 1988 Ford V-8-460-cubic-inch engine was the last Ford engine with a carburetor, a very unhappy engine.
RE: Ford 6.2L gas V8 power figures released
The 5.4 and 6.8 were not used in F250+ trucks untill '99. It's 2009 now, so they've been out for 10 years, not 15+. The 4.6 and 5.4 were used in F150's and Econoline vans starting in '97, so they've been out for 12 years in trucks/vans.
The 4.6 was introduced in the 91 model year, the 5.4 & 6.8 in 97. That's 19 and 13 years respectively (2010 is the current model year).
RE: Ford 6.2L gas V8 power figures released
Hmmm....... those spitting spark plugs keep coming to mind. Yes I know, they fixed those issues. And I agree, that now the current Ford gas engines are good engines.
Not so sure about your assumption that "it's not even a fair comparison" though. The old magnum Dodge engines, and not to forget the legendary GM 350 have outstanding histories of reliability, dependability, and longevity. Examples of long lasting 351s, 460s etc. for Ford are also out there.
About 2 blocks from me, right now, there is an old beat up 1980 Olds Cutlass with a 260 v8. That car, looks like crap, but that old underpowered v8 still purrs and doesn't smoke a bit. Leaks oil like crazy, but doesn't burn any. I'm sure by now that car has well over 200,000 on the clock, not to mention 30 years. I have a history with that car, it was my parents car from 1990 to 2004. Original engine and transmission. I attribute the longevity due to the fact that old 260 v8 was just so underpowered (I mean, it was gutless!) that it never stressed any of the internal components of the engine. Some friends of ours many years ago drove a 79 Olds with the same engine over 250,000 miles when they were forced to park the car due to the steering column wearing out. Same deal, engine purred like a kitten.
Also, while the Ford modular engines are "new tech", they are still not pumping out the numbers predicted by this newest Ford engine. I still question the reliability and longevity of forcing an engine to put out such high HP and torque numbers and running such high rpms. And that goes for the upcoming Hemi engines as well.
Like I said before, in 15 years, we will know whether it was a success or failure.
I've never actually meet anyone (in person) who's lost a spark plug in a mod motor, it's a very rare problem. I've known many people who have had to replace an intake gasket in a 350, I've even done one myself. I don't think you want to revisit every common problem Chevy has had with them over the years.
200,000 miles isn't extremely high mileage anymore and any engine regardless of miles shouldn't be leaking oil like crazy. That can also be a sign of worn out rings if pressure from the crankcase is forcing oil past the seals. Overall not a very good example of longevity. Meanwhile police cars and taxis have been seeing twice that mileage with their 4.6 engines and under much harder conditions.
RE: Ford 6.2L gas V8 power figures released
And, the question of durability can only be answered with time and usage. 10 to 15 years from now, if there are still a number of these high revving pullers on the road, we will have our answer definitively. :W
Meanwhile, "old tech" lower revving, lower HP gas engines in trucks like the Ford 302, 351, 460 engines, the GM 350, 454 engines, and the Dodge 318, 360, and 488 v10s are still rolling along the highways of North America, pulling loads and getting the job done, to this very day. Slower? yes. Dependable? without question! :W
The Ford "Modular" motors (4.6, 5.4, & 6.8) have been out for over 15 years and are so much more reliable then the 302, 351, & 460 it's not even a fair comparison.
RPM isn't the only factor in engine wear, an OHC engine puts less wear on the cam due to less valve train weight. A high revving engine with a shorter stroke puts less wear on the rings because the piston is moving slower then a long stroke engine. Add a coil on plug ignition with no distributor to wear out, plus the general improvement in engine design, materials, and manufacturing.
The story is pretty much the same at GM & Chrysler.
IMO this is more people not liking "that darn new fangled technology" and "all that electronic crap" then an actual performance issue. In EVERY measurable way these newer generations of gas engines are better then what has come before them.
RE: Odd gear ratios??
The right rear end gearing allows you to be able to choose between more gears when towing IMO.
If you had a 3.31 rear gear, you couldn't tow in OD in most conditions, so using that gear is out. If you have 3.73s with that same trans (whatever it may be), you would be able to tow in OD in more situations, thereby having another "useful" gear as an option if conditions are right. So that's an advantage to the 3.73 in my example.
However, the 3.31 axle would produce lower cruising RPM when not towing, and thereby get better mpg when running empty.
I think you're too quick to assume it couldn't tow in overdrive. At 65mph and ~1700rpm I think it will do well with most trailers. I'll at least hold off judgement until I hear otherwise.
One other advantage of the 3.31 gears is it allows you to use 3rd gear at highway speeds, if you need it. With the 4.10s you can't downshift to 3rd until your speed drops to 50mph or so.
Which one is "better" for you kind of depends on what you will use your pickup for most of the time.
That's absolutely true. More isn't always better and everyones situation is different.
RE: Winter tire question
I've had the Bridgestone Blizzak ws-60's and Dunlop Graspic ds-2's on my car. The Blizzak's are better in dry handling and icy conditions, the Dunlop's were better in snow. I got about 40k miles out of the Dunlop's before I was down to the replacement level (not the wear bars) although performance had dropped off somewhat. I would buy either one again.
RE: Which lane do you drive in?
IMHO The second lane is OK as long as you are traveling at least as fast and preferably faster than the right lane. Slower traffic should keep to the right.
Not picking on you Dale, but the comment "Slower traffic should keep to the right." has always bothered me. If the speed limit is 55, that means in all lanes, not 80 in the left. Now if you're only doing 40, then yes please move to the far right and not the left or middle lanes.
In many states it's a law. It may also be illegal to pass on the right so you would need a law like this to allow people to pass on the left. It can also be considered obstructing traffic, although I read about one case where an obstructing traffic ticket was thrown out because of your speed limit argument.
RE: GVWR
It's also not hard to go over a 7000 GVWR when you look at the wieght of the truck and passengers, essential campoing stuff in the bed and 15% of the TT weight on the tongue.
Let's gop back to the OP's numbers: He's got a 7000 GVWR on the truck and a 13000 GCWR., That means with the truck fully loaded his TT needs to stay under 6000 lbs. I would look at TT's with a GVWR under 6000 lbs, so probably TTs with a dry weight in the 4000-4500 range. That will ensure that no matter how/what the OP packs, he'll always be within ratings and won't have to worry about whether this next trrip will be enjoyable or stressful.
You're double counting the tongue weight with those numbers. Assuming 1000 lbs tongue weight, in order to stay under both the GVWR & GCWR you would need the loaded (completely loaded) truck under 6000 lbs. Therefore the trailer could be up to 7000 lbs without going over the GCWR.
RE: 35" tires on new F150 5.4 with 6 speed and 355 gears?
For mountain towing (DJ lives in the mountains), the big hill gear would be 2nd, the rolling hill gear would be 3rd and the flatland gear would be 4th. Fifth and Sixth would be pretty much useless with a camper and trailer.
For running lightly loaded, 3rd gear would be the big hill gear, 4th gear the rolling hill gear and 5th gear would be for flatlands. Sixth gear could be used for very high speed cruising when empty but not useful for much else.
I agree. Of course that sounds the same as driving a previous gen 4 speed with stock gearing. Which is how you get the comments of "it'll be fine with the 6 speed" it's not any worse then the previous trucks. If it was me in this situation I think I would re-gear the truck because I don't know how much a replacement 6 speed would cost but if you get a lot of shifting between 4th, 5th, and 6th you might just find out.
The ratios for the C6 on the chart are incorrect. C6 ratios are 2.46, 1.46, 1.00. The 2.71 1st gear ratio listed on the chart is for the later model E4OD and 4R100.
I just did a quick search and I found two sets of numbers, I picked the lowest gears as a best case. I couldn't really tell which one was right.
RE: 35" tires on new F150 5.4 with 6 speed and 355 gears?
Pop's Racer, I'm not sure why Nissan uses such tall gearing in their trucks, compared to Ford. Perhaps your engine produces significantly more torque at a lower rpm range than the Ford engine. Or, perhaps Nissan's idea of a towing gear is just different than Ford's.
Nissan uses the same tricks as the new 6 speeds, they use an extra deep first gear. When you look at the overall ratio in each gear you can see the effect. For fun I put together a chart for a C6 transmission with 4.56, a F150 6R80 with 3.55, and a Nissan with 3.36.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2760/4177095561_7a4eed4f8f_o.jpg
Note: I didn't do any corrections for tire size in this chart.
Which combination do you think has the best overall gearing?
RE: Which Timbrens?
I finally decided to go with Timbrens over Air Bags. I've debated this for a long time and have gone back & forth. (See my other thread) My final question is: Is there any reason I can't use the 1 Ton Timbrens on my 2500HD? Part # GMRTT35S vs. GMRCK25S. I also found the GMRCK35S. I believe the first one is the heaviest duty and I might as well go with that. Thoughts?
Timbren has the parts list in the instructions on their website. If all the mounting brackets have the same part number and the only difference is the part number for the spring it will work. I know that between the F250 & F350 the kits are the same so I would assume it's similar for the Chevy's. The heavy duty kit may be for cab & chassis models so check that carefully. I don't see why you would need the heavy duty kit on a 2500 truck anyway and you run the risk of having a harsh ride.
RE: Feel uneasy, upgrade the truck or ???
commercial trailers can out-weight tractors almost 10:1
More like 3:1, 20,000 lb tractor and 60,000 lb trailer = 80,000 lbs, the US weight limit, 32,000 lbs on any tandem axle set, 20,000 on any single axle, if I remember the axle weights right.
For a federal standard 18 wheel truck yes, but Michigan allows up to 164,000 pounds of registered weight.
RE: 2000 Chevy C2500 questions
First, how do I determine what the differential gear ratio is?
Open your glovebox and look on the RPO sticker,
GU6 - 3.42
GT4 - 3.73
GT5 - 4.10
It's a short bed crew cab 4x4 with the 7.4 liter gas engine and auto tranny.
Then you have a K2500, a C2500 is a 2WD.
Second, I've read references to a dummy fuse that needs to be replaced with the real thing in order to get battery power to charge the trailer battery while running. Where would this dummy fuse be?
Under the hood in the electrical box. Pop the cover and look for Stud 1. In this position there needs to be a 40A maxi-fuse installed in place of the factory plastic plug. The fuse is p/n 12065933 and $3.80 from your dealer.
You may also have to connect the trailer power wire to the stud in the fuse box. If it not connected you will see two wires taped in a bundle near the firewall, one blue and one red or orange. The red/orange wire is the trailer charge wire, the blue is the trailer brake output and they both connect to your 7 pin rv plug. Connect the red wire to either the A or B post in the fuse box and install the maxi fuse. The blue wire goes to the output on your brake controller. I used the other power stud to power the brake controler.
There was a very good write up on here somewhere with pictures that I found before. Try a search for it.
RE: Rear Lockers instead of 4WD
Amen!:B
The "anti-spin" rear diff in my Dodge is the biggest piece of junk I've ever seen. Its absolutely terrible.
The G80 in my GM trucks worked excellent. You ALWAYS knew when it would lock and how it would react. If one tire started to spin the G80 would lock up and both tires provided traction until you let off the gas and let it unlock.
Sadly,even though both Dodge and GM use the 11.5" AAM axle,the Dodge version won't accept a G80. ARB is just now offering a locker for the Dodge 11.5" axle.
Personally I hated the G80 locker in the Chevy's, I prefer a clutch based LS. The problem with the G80 is it won't transfer torque until after your wheel starts to spin. The process goes gas, tire squeal, BANG, accelerate. I would say the G80 would be great for off road but on pavement it was terrible.
RE: This is Driving me NUTS!!!
What about this....I go ahead and buy the 3:55 and a set of 4:10 gears. What do you think it would cost to change out and I saw 4:10 gears for 219.00 for an 8" front whatever that means? what do you think
You need more then just the gears. Depending on the gear set you may need a new carrier, you're also going to need new bearings and seals, crush sleeve, shims, and maybe a pinion nut. You'll want to change the gear oil after a couple thousand miles, so budget that in as well.
By the time you get done you'd be much better off just finding what you want in the first place. Even if you have to look at a truck 1000 miles away. Also keep in mind on that generation F150 4.10 gears were only available in the HD payload package which wasn't available in a crew cab.
RE: 3.42 Gears????
IMHO the difference between 3.42 and say a 4.10 is HUGE and the 3.42 can be significant even at highway speeds. The difference between 3.73 and 4.10 can be significant in the initial pulling power in starting off until up to freeway speeds ... say 50mph and above.
Larry
You can't just make a blanket statement that one is better then the other. For example my Dad has two Suburbans a 97 C1500 with 3.42 gears and a 99 K1500 with 3.73 gears. So which one has more towing power? They're almost exactly the same because the C1500 has slightly smaller tires and they both run at almost the same rpm.
RE: DOES IT HAVE TO BE A 5.4 ?
I would ask the trailer salesman and Ford, you know they don't lie. F-150's are rated for over 11,000 pounds of towing power, I saw it in a commercial. Certainly don't listen to what real world users have to say.
Who's trying to tow 11,000 pounds? We're talking about a 4,700# dry 6,900 GVWR trailer that will most likely be 5,500-6,500 pounds ready to go.
I am certainly a real world user, towing approx. 6,000 pounds with an 04 F150 5.4. The chassis is stable and the brakes are excellent. Power is adequate, I can hit 60-65 mph by the end of most freeway entrances and my biggest problem on steeper grades is getting stuck behind slower traffic. Granted I have never towed out west but if I'm stuck behind OTR trucks going 50mph out here, I doubt they're going any faster in California.
To the OP, if it was my decision I would stick with the 5.4, even though the HP numbers on the 09 4.6's look pretty good, the 5.4 is going to feel a lot stronger towing.
RE: Ford F 150
There seems to be a lot of outdated ideas about rear end gear ratios...
These aren't your fathers' TH350 transmissions. Modern 6-speeds are stronger, have closer-spaced gears, and a lower 1st gear. This allows you to run what traditionally was an "economy" gear in the rear end, and still have good power to tow.
Toyota went a different direction in the Tundra. They went with a 4.30 gear in the rear end, and double overdrive to end up with basically the same result.
Forgive me for adding math to this debate but I just wanted to illustrate this point.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/3963505975_e52caba43c.jpg
Look at the highlighted portions, the Ford 6 speed with 3.55s has about the same "towing gear" as the 4 speed with 4.10s. With 3.73s it's about the same as the Toyota with 4.30s. That's because it doesn't have a direct 1:1 gear like most people would assume, therefore you can't compare performance based on rear end gear ratio alone.
Of course this assumes equal tire sizes, if that changes everything goes to hell again.
RE: I found the limits of my 2-valve V10 gasser
Build some speed and drop a gear before the grade and get the throttle down early. Once you lose speed you're not going to gain it back. I've been down that road once before but I was driving my mustang gt, fifth gear with the cruise control set at 70 up and down the hill & around the curves, I rather enjoyed it. I don't think the semis were doing more then 30mph, so you were in good company.
