RE: 5th Wheel to TT
Many full time in an Airstream. Second choice is Pacific Coachworks Tango, get the 31 foot with the bicycle storage doors and you will have ample storage space inside and outside plus your truck bed. Also, I second getting a good hitch- Equalizer, Centerline, Propride or HA. It will tow as good as any fifth if the trailer is properly loaded, tongue weight correct and a good antisway hitch or better yet with a good sway elimination hitch.
RE: Snow?
If you are really concerned with the amount of snow run a small electric heater continuously inside. It is more probable that you will do more damage to vents, antennas, etc. with a broom by trying to brush any snow off than any benefit you will accrue from brushing it off. If you are going to tow the trailer, drive slowly for the first miles. The snow will blow/break off in chunks and fall to the sides or the rear. In most cases it is not the most courteous driving for others on the road.
RE: Wind Drag: V-Nose or Sloped Nose?
Wes,
You obviously know a lot about trains, are you a locomotive engineer?
Also, your analysis comparing a box trailer and an Airstream for changes in HP, torque, fuel mileage or whatever, will only be accurate under the same controlled road/wind conditions, same truck (or tow vehicle), same driver and same trailer weights. The Airstream can't more than the box trailer and unfortunately in most cases for the same size they do.
RE: How Much Snow is too Much ?
If you are really worried about it, run a little heater inside for help in getting the snow to melt. I would be careful with a broom as it can damage vents, etc. if you are not careful. We just had about two feet here and it melts and blows off fairly quickly.
RE: OK, the guy lied to me!!
DJ,
We told you that you would get nostalgic and be looking 'back' to that recent memory when you still owned a big truck. But THIS soon?
RE: Wind Drag: V-Nose or Sloped Nose?
Wes,
This thread has been fun. The real issue isn't the shape of the trailer, it is the tow vehicle. That is the first to have to deal with the wind, the trailer is second. As long as we tow with trucks, vans and SUV's that are not aerodynamic we will never be that efficient even if the trailers are.
RE: Whats wrong with this picture?
Mike,
So the bottom line of what is missing in the pic is a Dodge dually truck? Since the Ford is at the repair shop.
RE: Wind Drag: V-Nose or Sloped Nose?
68Monaco,
Assuming the Cummins white paper can be loosely intrepreted for tow vehicles and TT's, then the engine's power is mostly used to overcome rolling resistance under 50 mph and above that speed the engine's power is needed more to overcome aerodynamic drag. If that is sort of true for RV's, than my point is valid. In most cases the TT is averaging under 50 mph, probably in the high 30s or low 40s overall average speed. City, seashore, mountain, etc. driving is slower than interstate driving. So, the only time the engine is really working harder to overcome aerodynamic drag in deference to rolling resistance is the amount of time at highway crusing speeds. For some that is more time, for others less. Will V nose or slant nose make a $20 difference in the annual towing fuel bill? For most, I doubt it. Is that incremental fuel difference more important than layout, quality, floorplans, etc? I doubt it. Obviously, anything that slips through the air cleaner has a benefit even at slower speeds, albeit minimal and perhaps virtually moot to the drivers fuel bill at years end.
Your discussion about Airstream is well taken. Not only were they traditionally pulled by cars but in one marketing demonstration Airstream looked for and found a very fit athletic racing bicyclist and in a controlled environment demonstrated that the rider could actually tow an Airstream, not far and certainly not fast, but it could be done. Aerodynamics had nothing to do with that tow as it was way too slow. It reminds me of the TV commercials where a one ton diesel is towing a few train cars or an airplane weighting more than 100,000 pounds. Are you able to do the same? Not for long, not for much warranty value and not for much truck longevity. But, it can be done.
What you did not mention is that Jeeps and cars have towed many other brands of trailers besides Airstream for decades as well. A bicyclist could tow one of those, also. Marketing is marketing. In the movie "Long Long Trailer" a 125 hp car is seen towing a 40 foot TT (with the camera tilted to exaggerate the climb) on the Whitney Portal trail road just west of Lone Pine California. I have been on that road with my 325 hp diesel and can only imagine a car with 125 hp struggling up it at 5 or 10 mph with a 6000 pound 40 foot trailer in tow. It is steep. Can it be done? Probably. Is it comfortable driving and towing? No! Would a V nose make any difference at those slow speeds? Doubtful at best. Good marketing folks are invaluable in making the rest of us see how badly we want their newest and greatest product. Same for V or slant nose trailers. Will the real world experiences prove the marketing hype? Time will tell.
RE: Where to go.besides just plain South
Sleepy,
My wife wants to see Graceland. Maybe summer after next we will and also travel the Blueridge Parkway. That is a beautiful area. I agree with you, east coast of the nation does have beautiful areas also.
RE: Wind Drag: V-Nose or Sloped Nose?
Wes,
I agree that if the RV trailer could be angled to mitigate the side winds it would work better. Might be a little hard on 'on coming' traffic to see half an RV partly in the wrong lane. Good points, all.
From what I have been told about diesels, one horsepower for each 100 pounds weight or towed weight. This may not apply to AC or DC locomotives that basically shunt the extra electricity into the frame that is not needed. But, as tow vehicle pickups go most are way overpowered for the loads they typically carry or tow. My Dodge/Cummins is rated at 325 hp, no way would I ever get to over 30,000 pounds for truck and whatever was being towed. I suspect with trains the loads are not only calculated, but the tension especially around turns also positions locomotives in the middle and end to keep the cars from derailing up and down hills as the engines have so much torque that around curves it could effectively pull empty cars off the rails that are in the middle of the train. Lots to train loading, climbing and descending I am sure. It would be fun to learn about it as I am not well versed in this subject. Over Donner summit between Reno and Sacramento, the trains all have six or seven engines up front, up to five in the middle and two in the rear up and down hill. Pretty amazing all that horsepower.
RE: Where to go.besides just plain South
Sleepy,
Summers at Lake Tahoe, Truckee and most of the Sierras are almost perfect. Mark Twain in his book "Roughing It" said "Lake Tahoe is the fairest picture the whole earth affords". It is hard to beat it. Maybe Hana, Hawaii? I am glad you enjoyed your time here. Had I known you were in the area you could have stayed in our yard. Next time?
RE: Important message for all Barker Electric Tongue Jack Owners
Larry,
I bring a bottle jack to put under the tongue should the electric jack fail. A few blocks of wood and any jack malfunction problem is temporarily fixed. Even if the jack fails in the down position, just remove the three attachement bolts and disconnect the wires. Not really any reason to keep from moving along. Now if you want to talk about slides stuck in the out position, I am all ears. That does tend to be a more significant issue.
RE: Hensley Arrow objective review.
CenterPin,
I have the same trailer (299bhs) and almost the same truck except for mine is 4x4. I found the tongue weight of the Tango to be much more than you referenced. Mine is more like 1000 pounds or more; that would be within the recommended 10-15 percent for about 7400 GVWR pounds (I weigh with a tongue scale, no guessing or brochure numbers that are for the trailer dry weight). I hope the HA works for you; I use an Equalizer 12,000/1200 and it does a very good job with sway. Our trucks don't need much weight distribution as the diesel engine is so heavy that any more weight on the front axle is undesirable, less actually would likely be better sort of counter to the weight distibution function. I have the same brake controller and also set on boost "2" and have had no brake issues that you describe. All you probably really need is sway control/ elimination, any weight distribution would be minimal. Mine tows great with about a two inch drop in the rear bumper as measured to the ground with the trailer hitched and I have been in some squirrly cross winds with 18 wheelers passing the opposite direction. No fear, no worries, no white knuckles. For what HA costs, I would expect four times the hitch quality and four times the performance. With your truck, the HA is probably overkill as the HA hitch tends to mitigate issues with tow vehicles. One ton truck don't need much mitigation help and, in fact, the tongue of the trailer can be damaged if the WD is set too tight/stressed.
RE: Wind Drag: V-Nose or Sloped Nose?
Wes,
In some ways I think we are saying the same thing. You are doing it with diagrams and I am with words. Yes, a sailboat can sail extrememly well just off a direct headwind. In fact, in some ways it sails better than downwind (the wind behind the boat).
As to the Prius aerodynamics, the real issue (and, again I think we agree) is that it is built to slip through the air better than a Ford van or a pick up truck with a more blunt nose. It is not that the Prius will never reach a speed where the air flow is a major factor, that will just happen at a much higher speed than a van or truck. Somewhere I saw the numbers and discussion for a no wind no hills (grades) comparision of the speeds that it takes for an engine (human in bicycling) to begin to use more of its power to overcome aerodynamic drag than rolling resistance. For most bicyclists it was around 6-7 mph. For most cars it is around 40-45 mph. For the Prius it is higher, therefore the better mileage as it is using less of its engine power (battery/electric or gasoline) to cut through the air drag. With the exception of the fancy hybrid electrics, the real benefit is the design of the car and that it has less air drag at the same speeds as other less efficient cars. So, if most drive less than 100 mph like you did, and usually stay under 70 mph or so, the drag at 70 is to the Prius what a van might be at 50 mph. That is the real reason the hybrid gets the mileage. At electric speeds around town (25-35 mph) the wind resistance is slmost a moot point.
My issue with an airplane is that a direct 90 degree cross wind to the intended course is really a slight head wind as the plane has to angle or crab into the wind. "Into the wind" makes it a slight headwind. However, driving or bicycling does not allow crabbing into the wind regardless from whatever direction on a fixed course-the road.
My other observation and back to the OP's issue, is that the V-nose alwsys presents a flat surface into the wind unless a direct head wind or no wind. A sloped or angled RV benefits from no wind, head wind or a side wind. So, back to my original premise before we got into all the stuff about trains is that the sloped front is better than the V front and that the V front is a marketing gimmick. As to Airstrem, I have no idea 75 years ago how much of the design went into air flow and how much was styling and the aluminum shell that actually is part of the structure and provides strength to the entire trailer. My trailer (Pacific Coachworks Tango 299bs) has a barn door front and weighs 7500 pounds. So if I had a V nose or slanted nose trailer, how much heavier could I tow with the same amount of power. That would be the important question to me. Would an Airstream (like the 28 foot with slide out) that weighs 9100 pounds be easier or harder to tow. Would the streamlined front/rear require more or less power? A chart comparing weight to drag would be interesting.
RE: Equali-z-er hitch wear
uncleroman,
One more consideration. How much tension are you putting on the bars? I have found 2-3 inches to be plenty from a position where the bars are not attached to the L brackets and when they are in the L brackets. Use enough to get the job done but not too much. The bars should be level or nearly so when in the L brackets. The hitch works good when set up properly. I would also upgrade, if you have not already, the hitch to shank bolts (the big ones) to grade 8, Napa and others sell them and then go to about 400 foot pounds torque. It makes for a tighter hitch. When properly set up the front wheels of the tow vehicle take most of the redistributed hitch/ tongue weight, the trailer wheels less but the weight is redistributed throughout the entire tow vehicle and trailer. Too much tension on the spring bars can cause trailer tongue issues and can damage the spring bars. A simple rule of thumb is to measure the bumper to ground distance on the tow vehicle with the trailer not connected, then after the trailer is on the ball. How much less that distance is becomes a good indicator of how to load the spring bars. The instructions say to measure the front bumper or wheel well to ground. However, that has some shortcomings on diesel engined pickup trucks as the engine is so heavy that a little weight taken off the front axle is probably good and loading more on that axle probably not good. I only measure the bumper to ground and the entire set up tows 'just right'.
RE: Where to go.besides just plain South
scrinch,
I feel your pain. In the last few days it has been below zero here with fifteen inches on the ground and more falling as I write this. I feel like you that the cold and snow is just not that much fun anymore and if I want to see it I can always drive to it. Getting out of it even for short breaks is always welcome. Fortunately, we can usually head over the Sierras into California where it is a totally different climate especially by the ocean where a typical winter day is 50 degrees or warmer.
RE: How cold can I go?
richarddana,
Sounds like you have a three season trailer, not a four season. I would try to estimate the number of times you plan to use the trailer in the winter. The cure might not be worth the effort unless you plan to use it a lot in the winter. Many that do not want to unwinterize and rewinterize still camp, just using bottled water in deference to the built in tank, and use a porta potty so that at the end of the day the tank issue is moot in very cold temps. If you do plan to fully enclose the underbelly, you will also have to duct heat to the tanks from the on board furnace, etc.
RE: Wind Drag: V-Nose or Sloped Nose?
magnusfide,
Most RV owners in Nevada (and there are a lot of us) are used to the wind. Just try to be careful when it is blowing and try never to take a huge side gust if we can help it.
RE: Wind Drag: V-Nose or Sloped Nose?
magnusfide,
I cannot see how the V nose does not have a barn door affect in any quartering wind. The wind will likely push the nose around more than a sloping nose trailer. Unless the wind is right on the nose, or a tail wind, the V nose will likely be a liability in aerodynamics. Cute and sexy for marketing, but practical? The V takes a trailers normal frontal barn door affect and makes it two barn doors for any quartering wind. How is that better even if only half the size of frontal area? If you tow only in tail winds or where the wind never blows, it might have appeal. Just my observations.
