Had black appliance epoxy on the shelf already. It has proven durable on my rigs Steel rims.
This time with the latest 180mm SS fan, I wetsanded the impeller with water with a drop of dawn dishsoap and 1500 grit sandpaper, got all oils off. No fisheyes or separation on appliance epoxy paint application. Wiping with alcohol was not enough on previous impeller.
. I still have impeller & ball bearings from failed ap182. I also cut off the spiral focusing faceplate to use in front of newer slower 180mm Silverstone fan as a finger grate, more than a flow focuser.
I currently have a 110 CFM silverstone fm121 on my Ceiling exhausting through a 4 inch opening into a mushroom vent. The fan is fed, Inline, from 1/4 inch away, by a counter rotating single speed 53cfm 120MM arctic cool fan which greatly improves airflow, and noise. The pitch of the SS fan on high is lowered greatly when the counter rotating fan is fired up, pushing air into the SS fan.
The mushroom vent certainly presents a lot of resistance to airflow. I have opened up the interior to present less resistance, but perhaps This Ceiling silverstone can find its way onto my intake shroud, since I know it is quiet enough for that location.
perhaps The Noctua, since it has a much higher static pressure rating would be much better exhausting through this mushroom vent on my ceiling.
The old airflow vs static pressure war.
Ideally The screaming banshee fan could reside pushing air through the mushroom vent, if it could be adequately tamed.
I wonder how the Static pressure rating of Computer fans is measured, and if the published numbers are valid when compared among different brands.
The 2000 rpm nf-f12 has a SP rating of 3.94mm and 71.69cfm for 29.7dba
the 3000 rpm nf-f12 has a SP rating of 7.63MM and 109.9 cfm for 43.5dba
the 2400 rpm FM121 has a Sp rating of 3.26mm and 110.03cfm for 39.5dba
The Delta 6000rpm has a Sp rating of 35.887 and 252CFM for 66.5dba
So understanding how static pressure is measured on these computer fans could have a huge effect if the 2000 rpm Noctua could, based on the SP stats, outperform the faster louder higher CFM higher amp draw silverstone fm121 when exhausting though my mushroom vent as it has a higher SP rating.
I did once mount the Delta 252 CFM 35.887MM Static pressure screaming banshee Fan to my ceiling vent for an hour. The counter rotating inline feeder fan actually slowed down the screaming banshee and reduced airflow. Its scavenging ability was unmatched and dang impressive. Like closing all the doors and opening one window and putting this fan on high, the airflow coming through the open window was still impressive. but the noise... a high pitched jet engine, and the amp draw, 3.23 amps.
I might just click 'place order' now on the 3 wire 2000rpm 140MM noctua and more 25KHZ motor speed controllers.
I will have to enlarge one hole on my shroud from 120 to 140MM aqnd safely mount the controller, but No biggie
I guess another option would be the NON PWM 3 pin Noctua 140Mm fan. This Non PWM version only comes in 2000 rpm, not 3000, but would move about the same airflow as the 3000 rpm 120Mm version at highest speed.
Without the PWM on the fan's circuit board, perhaps it would not be cumulatively damaged by feeding the red and black with a pwm motor speed controller and perhaps not whine and perhaps meet or exceed my specifications for full speed range, and high airflow on high, and a very quiet lowest rpm for at night.
Lots if Ifs and perhapses in there.
One other consideration is Fan color. I've painted the White Silverstone fans black with appliance epoxy, so they are not easily noticed. A black sharpee works OK but takes forever to apply, adn when the fan blades need cleaning it requires some reapplication. I knew painting the impeller could throw out balance and wear the bearings faster, but seemed to have gotten the paint's weight distributed evenly enough.
The Black color of the Industrial Noctua's impeller and inside body, are highly desirable for me.
It sounds like you haven't tried the Noctra on a PWM control.
I have not. The Noctuas I currently have are mounted on my fridge compressor, 120mm, and my Meanwell power supply 60 and 80mm, and I will not be experimenting on them.
The intended location for the 3000 rpm nf-f12 is extremely close to where my head resides when sleeping. There are 3 fans side by side in a tight fitting shroud used as intake fans for positive air displacement. One of them is 180mm, and used to be a silverstone 2000 rpm ap182, but this fan failed due to corrosion on the circuitboard, and it required holding voltage to no more than 11 volts when on highest speed or the hub got stinky hot. It has been now been replaced with a 1300 rpm max 180mm silverstone which is basically silent on slowest speed. but I miss the near 2000 rpms of the ap182 on the scorching days when all three fans in this shroud are on high.
Next to the 180Mm cut out are 2 120mm cutouts In one of these is a silverstone fm121, and the other is a single speed sleeve bearing 72cfm fan which came on my compressor fridge and is not impressive in noise, airflow, or amp consumption.
This time of year I always have one of these fans running all night long, and it has been the 180mm as it is so quiet and moves ~60 cfm at this speed. But hotter nights I'd like to have two fans on slowest speed rather than bump up speed on the 180mm. The silverstone fm121 is now too loud on any speed to use this close to my head. It sounds like the bearings are shot, but they are not. it sounds like playing cards in bike spokes, but there is no obstructions to the blades. the Hub had previously broken its glue joint, and some hot glue restored function, for a few weeks, but now is loud again, and i have not removed shroud to inspect further. Next time I remove it is to replace a fan. I suspect something driving the fan has failed causing the noise, but perhaps the hot glue let go.
Buying the 3K rpm Noctua or a replacement silverstone fm121 is the decision i now face. It appeared the fm121 quality control was lessened on each one I purchased in the last decade, and I am dang impressed with Noctuas now employed on fridge and Meanwell, and the IP67 or even IP52 ratings of the industrial versions would be a big step up over the silverstone. I've basically had to resolder the wires to circuit board on almost every fan in this location, until I spooged dielectric grease over them, but even that has not prevented their failure. The latest 180Mm fan got sprayed liberally with Deoxit shield on windings and circuit board and a spooge of dielectric grease over where wires meet circuit board.
I am sensitive to high pitched noises, often hearing high pitched whining/noises others cannot. So the Noctua on a regular PWM motor speed controller/dimmer on the red black wires, would be an experiment, where the silverstone's unknown entity would mostly be a quality control factor. Has it dropped even further since I last purchased one many years ago?
In my humble workshop on the tilted concrete slab, the screwy31 still powers fans and LEDS, and I have many of the LED dimmers, but since having smoked my 25khz motor speed controllers, I cannot tolerate the fans on these ~13khz led dimmers. Far too annoying, the Whine. The Screaming banshee fan is too loud to notice any whining, but how I'd love to be able to tame this fan to whisper quiet through to full screaming banshee rpms.
The 25khz motor speed controllers certainly did not cause instant failure on the fans employed in my workshop, but these are not PWM 4 wire fans. The 4 wire screaming banshee has likely less than 2 hours total on the 25KHZ controller, and I can detect no loss of function from feeding pwm through the power feed lines.
I have some Vantec tornado fans, 80 and 92mm that I use a voltage controller similar to the one linked below, ciggy plug style, for a speed controller. this works well, No whine. These fans whined even on the 25KHZ controller IIRC.
Note to readers, The above product is loose in ciggy receptacles and can be kinked sideways and short out blowing the circuit's fuse, not the one in the device. Some heatshrink over most of the tip but for the spring loaded nipple, prevents this. Dumb Ciggy plug design but the electronics have proven durable in my usage. But only 5 set voltages/speeds, and at 14.5 battery volts, it will only deliver 12.09 volts max. There are times I would appreciate higher airflow at 14.x volts.
So I am gambling that the Noctua 3000rpm version can be tamed on a regular pwm controller without the whine, or I go for the Silverstone fm121 replacement and its possible declining quality control issues, or I make or buy the PWM controller linked to at overclockers.com, to PWM control the PWM fan the way it was originally intended to be controlled.
Least risk and time consumption would be the silverstone fm121 replacement. But I learn nothing doing that.
I think I need to order more 25KHZ motor speed controllers just for the fans in workshop and take steps to prevent their smoking. I use these as air filters and do notice the increased dust without them.
Thanks for the info.
At this point I have no confidence with my ability to set up the DIY PWM controller but will go over it a few times and try and grasp more of the basics required.
Are there any products available which can utilize the 4th PWM wire. Will this approach of using the 4th wire, rather then running black and red through a PWM dimmer/controller allow a lower speed?
The full speed of the 3000 rpm nf-f12 industrial version in my iuntended location would be regularly utilized, as will the slowest possible speed, but this lowest speed needs to be quiet. If it cuts out like the screaming banshee fan at 65% of full speed, it will be of little use to me and my money better spent buying another silverstone fm121 that can go to the super slow nearly silent speeds and still has the 110CFM max
I'd love to harness the Screaming banshee fan too, down to 500 rpm or so, if possible.
Something is certainly amiss. Your Ammeter.... Describe. How are its internal batteries?
My clampmeter is not worth its weight in feces when the aaa batteries inside fall to below 1.28 volts. It will not read resistance at all, voltage is off by 20% or more, and amperage off by 75% or more.
Guessing what the smart charger is trying to do at the moment can drive a person insane.
generally if the battery is fully charged, not much current will be required to reach absorption voltage, the charger 'should' be able to sense this low current to hold ABsv requirement, hold it only so long and then drop to float voltage.
I got so sick of My schumacher, and trying to guess what the Eff it was attempting to do, I pestered this forum until mex brough up the possibilities of an adjustable power switching power supply.
Now I know what voltage the charging source seeks, i determine how long it is to be held, and I have the tools and experience to tell me how long it is to be held, and can basically fairly accurately geustimate a state of charge based on how many amps the battery is accepting at the voltage at the battery terminals.
When I bust out the Schumacher now, with these measuring tools and experience, well Sometimes i want to swing the Schumacher around by its power cord round and round with increasing speed until it meets an object which can't move.
Actually it is OK, when I use the AGM setting as it will not goto 16.4 volts, and it will hold mid 14v for longer than it will on the regular to deep cycle settings, and it floats at 13.6v and works OK as a power supply in float as long as the loads are not huge and switched on and off.
But the bell and whistle 8 stage chargers with included neck massager, who knows what the EFF they are trying to do at any given point on any given battery at any state of charge.
I have about 5 of those LED PWM dimmers on hand. They have made every fan I have used them with Whine annoyingly loud when the rpms are reduced. I can't tolerate the whine. I guess it is the windings in the motor whining. Perhaps the Noctua's IP67 rating would prevent the whining.
The 25 KHZ PWM 10 amp motor speed controllers, well the whine was outside my hearing range, but they released their smoke due to bumbling jackassery on my part.
These controllers had some heatsinks( with no thermal grease) and they would get quite hot powering the screaming banshee, but the LED dimmer had no heatsinks and had no issues powering this fan and did not get hot. No idea about this discrepancy. 13 vs 25KHZ?
I think I once measured the output and it was the ground on the LED dimmer out, which did the PWM thing. Would it be possible to feed the fan battery voltage on the red and black and use the (-) output from the dimmer to the blue PWM wire?
I see the computer fan speed controllers marketed as such are rather expensive.
I just want the full speed control throughout the full possible ranges of the fans, including the screaming banshee, adjustable via a remote potentiometer. I thought perhaps it was better or allowed more rpm range to use the provided PWM wire on the fans to control speed rather than running red and black into a motor speed controller and then to fan.
I could order more of the 25KHZ motor speed controllers but they are kind of bulky, exposed and fragile, and this led to their previous demise, with the addition of sufficient bumbling jackassery on my part.
Also the Screaming banshee Fan was not able to be tamed sufficiently on these. I'd love to tame the screaming banshee to tolerable noise and amperage consumption levels, but at the minimum speed via the 25KHZ controller, it was still way too powerful, noisy and an Ampwhore.
The LED dimmer, it would cut out at the same exact speed on the screaming banshee and read about 5.6 volts on my DMM when it cut out, though I know this is not an accurate voltage reading..
For years I have been using the Silverstone fm121 as it comes with a remote mounted speed controlling potentiometer, goes as high as 110 CFM and 0.4 amps consumption.
It is fairly quiet for this amount of airflow and there are other fans that draw much more amperage for less airflow and make more noise doing so. I have a fm121 now in the process of failing after many years of faithful service in a harsh environment.
But since i first settled on the Silverstone fm121 as my favorite 120Mm computer fan, Noctua fans have come out. I put a Noctua NF-F12 on my Fridge condenser pushing instead of pulling, and duty cycle dropped while I saved 0.07 amps with this fan over the one provided, and of course it is much much quieter.
Noctua has now offered 2000 and 3000 rpm Industrial versions of the 1500 rpm original. Some are IP67 rated, some 3 wire some 4 wire pwm.
I am not sure how the other two wires on the 4 wire versions control the speed. in the past when speed controlling non Silverstone computer fans, I used a 24khz PWM motor speed controller and life was good.
These 25KHZ PWM controllers met unfortunate ends due to a case of bumbling halfwitted jackassery, and the 13khz PWM LED dimmers I now have, cause that annoying humming sound from the motor.
Basically I want the 3000 rpm NF-f12 version on a speed control, A controller which is manually adjustable and not huge, does not waste significant amounts of power, and of course, will not cause the humming.
The Noctua NF-F12 3000 rpm version is rated at 0.3 amps and 186.3 cubic meters per hour which translates to 109.9cfm, basically the same as the silverstone fm121, but for 0.1amp less consumption. A little noisier at full speed but perhaps the Tone is more acceptable.
They have a 140Mm 3000 rpm fan capable of 158cfm too which interest me as well. I could cut a larger hole in my shroud to accept a 140Mm fan in place of a 120mm.
IAnother fan i'd love to control properly is an 'Original Delta TFC1212DE 12cm 120mm DC 12V 3.90A 252CFM 4pin PWM with Speed Sensor Server Inverter Axial Case Cooling Fan'
I affectionately call it the screaming banshee.
This fan is insanely powerful, sending a dense narrow column of air a good distance at a good speed, but my PWM controller could not tame it enough. It would slow to about 65% speed then turn off, still consuming 2.6 amps, and moving too much air, and making way too much noise, and is mostly unused.
I'd love to be able to slow this insane ~ 4 amp fan down to near whisper quiet levels at acceptable wattage consumption, and also have the godmother of all white noise turbo boost jet engine fans being able to reduce barometric pressure, and drown out neighborhood screaming children having their frequent early morning chernobylesque meltdowns, and barking dogs inside my rig when exhausting at full speed.
IN general I want to learn more about how to best control these fans through the ways their speed/rpm was intended to be controlled by an actual computer via the 2 extra wires provided on these fans.
I am kind of a ventilation Nazi and my lack of understanding about how to best control these 3 and 4 wire fans for full manual speed control, without the sub 22KHZ humm, is bothering me.
Please Ventilate, I mean, enlighten. me.
Bah, 4 fans running fans means the batteries are still warm from charging and from warm to hot ambient temps and are holding higher voltage than they would 20 degrees cooler.
I'm not impressed.
I loved watching how well my AGM held voltage when new, and its fully charged resting voltage of 13.06v.
Now the novelty has worn off but I am still impressed as is is consistently 0.2v higher than the screwy31 was for the same AH removed under the same load, and the screwy 31 was rated at nearly 50% more capacity.
Did these Fiamms come with any charge current recommendations?
When a battery voltage is raised to 14.X volts, and the amps taper to small numbers quickly while still being held at 14.x volts, either the battery is fully charged or very close to it, or it is very sulfated, or both.
Now if the charging source drops to a lower voltage, well it requires less amperage to hold the battery at a lower voltage.
Restarting a smart charger over and over on a nearly fully charged battery is going to be confusing to both human and charger.
Put a fairly significant load on the battery, wait for voltage to drop to 12.6 or less, then restart charger, then quickly remove load. This will allow the 'Smart' charger to at least seek 14.x volts.
How long it holds 14.x volts is an issue, as many smart chargers hold it for only 2 hours, and 4 is usually needed on a deeply cycled battery.
I have a 40 amp charging source, Apply this to my 90 AH battery depleted 18AH to 72AH is exactly 80% charged.
I have never applied this 40 amp charging source and been able to get amps to taper to less than 0.4a at 14.4 to 14.7v, in less than 3.5 hours from 80% charged.
But but but... its a 40 amp charging source and only needed to replace 18 AH. LEad acid batteries..... wasting amps and charge time and losing capacity, since day one.
Try this guy. he regularly is up in the LA area picking up batteries ffrom Concorde and trojan.
He delivered a Lifeline GPl-31XT to my door fresh from the Concorde's west covina factory, and hooked Niner up with his Tellycom AGM.
Well, applying a known load on the battery individually while watching the voltmeter will tell you and us, a lot.
Voltage held under a known load with a known AH removed from the battery is how I mainly judge battery capacity retainment, or lack thereof, but a basis for comparison when the battery was newer or healthier is required for the judgement.
I've seen a depleted partially sulfated flooded group 31 suck way more than 17 to 20 amps when the charging source is seeking 14.4. In fact it maxed out my 40 amp charger for quite a while before attaining Absorption voltage.
if my flooded 100Ah battery reached absorption voltage of 14.4v+ with just 17 amps, it either is above 80% charged, or is heavily sulfated.
The Wfcos are notorious for never seeking 14.4v, and charging slowly, and failing prematurely.
I removed one from a neighbors RV, replaced it with an Iota dls-45. He is a battery abuser but claims he now always has enough power for overnight with just his generator to recharge where with the Wfco the batteries were always struggling..
I have taken its heatsink and fan, the 80mm Addo fan now with relubed sleeve bearing is exhausting my electrical cabinet at a reduced rpm from a Noctua inline resistor cable, and amp draw of only 0.04a.
A clamp on Ammeter is a wonderful tool, as long as it measures DC amps. Many will say AC/DC but only measure AC amps.
With this clamped over one wire from Wfco or at the battery, one no longer has to guess. But expect to be dissappointed with the number you see flowing into batteries when the Wfco is the charging source.
"I'm running a generator for 8 freaking charging amps!!!!!!! WTF!!!! ArGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH."
When new this battery could accept higher amps than it can now at about 375 deep cycles and a couple hundred more shallower cycles, and a few thousand engine starts.
Northstar specs a 2.6m OHM resistance on this group27.
Lifeline lists their 27T at 3.54m OHM
...............their 31T at 3.62
............... their 31XT at 3.01
.................their 30HT at 2.56 mOHM
You have a Lifeline 31T right?
Still impressed with its ability to hold voltage during discharge. with 45AH removed from its new rating of 90, it quickly bounces to above 12.2v with most (not all) loads removed.
And Northstar says 12.11v rested is 50%.
I think I'd still choose the Northstar over a Lifeline at this point as I do use it to start my engine and the CCA rating of the Northstar is 200+ higher although I believe the lifeline could easily out cycle it in the long run.
I put the temp sensor on plastic case in the center of center cell, as that is where Rolls Surrette recommended placing it. I fear the sensor on the battery terminal would throw off readings due to possible resistance on the electrical connection. I will at some point be adding a second sensor whose leads can reach my dashboard for display when driving.
Battery now at 91F and accepting 6.8 amps at 14.6v. Lowering voltage now.
A 20 degree rise since applying 40 initial amps. I knew battery temp would rise during hi amp charging, but I did not expect this much. I wonder how much the screwy 31 was heating up in absorption at 14.9 and 15.3 v finish that the hydrometer dictated it needed.
Yes, Thing just pumped 40 amps for 45 minutes, now tapering.
Sensor Got up to 109f, but hit 115f in 10 seconds holding my hand in front of 60MM intake fan and dropped back down to 109f in another 30 seconds with hand removed
Loud meanwell switched Fan came on at 102.4F, turned off at 98.6f and when amps tapered to 31 at 74.3f ambient.
IR gun not precise enough to hit any individual transistor leg, And it is buttoned back up with lid in place so hitting any leg with it is not going to happen.
These temps do not appear excessive. Any more heatsinking and ventilation necessary?.
90AH AGM Battery temperature has risen 14 degrees F in less than an hour at ~32 to 42 amps. varying loads on battery/ PS during charging.
battery Now at 84.9 degrees. Ambient 74.3. Rising quickly during CV amp tapering. Is holding 14.5
Heatsink temp 93.2F at 22.8 amps total output.
In photos above, one can see the longer wider transistor with blue glob on screw thread, and barely see the heatsink I attached to casing on other side. This heatsink gets the hottest according to my IR gun, and also as it rests on my cabinet door, is on bottom making heatsink less effective.
Perhaps I am not done with adding fans. This overkill anal retentive nature of mine can be frustrating.
Those Industrial Noctua's NF-f12's come in 2000 and 3000 rpm versions with the 3000 version moving ~160CFM. The regular nf-f12 is 1500 rpm and 52 cfm, the 2000 rpm industrial is 71cfm
They have ones which are IP 67 rated too so Dust proof and water proof upto 1 meter depth
I removed a 72cfm fan pulling air through my condenser and used a 1500 rpm nf-f12 (53 cfm) Pushing air through it and compressor duty cycles decreased instantly along with noise and Amp draw.
Noctua really makes a nicely engineered fan.
Noctua makes awesome computer fans. I have a Nf-f12 pushing air through my compressor fridge's condenser for nearly 4 years now.
I do not utilize the resistors provided with these fans to slow them down more.
The Silverstone fm121 and FM181 are my favorite adjustable speed fans
The AP182 is seriously powerful, but the hub gets too hot at top speed and with battery charging voltages. Mine failed after about 2 years. corrosion was in influencing factor as it resides in a window as an intake fan in a salty air environment. The replacement ( fm181) is not as strong at only 1300 rpm but only draws 0.27 amps for ~150 cfm and is very quiet at max or minimum rpm.