Our 5er shopping this winter was going to include a Montana model. I'm glad I've read this now.
Hope all works out for you.
I still say that you will get a bad one every now and then, what gets me is how long it took to get management involved.
I just returned from the dealer a few ago. The new gun to inject the newer style Loctite 8100 epoxy, and the epoxy are in. The plan is to take the rig there next Tuesday, Monday if I have enough time, for the repair attempt. This time, the lower trim will be removed and the sidewall separated a bit from the beam and then this new epoxy will be shot up between the beam and the sidewall, then screwed every 5" across the floating area. And these screws are #10 sheet metal screws they've sent! Let it cure for 36 hours and then reinstall lower trim. What is different is that this repair will take place with the weight on the pinbox instead of the jacks!
When I stepped in the door from getting home from the dealer, the phone rang and it was a member of Keystone management!:) She was very kind and direct. They are planning on this repair working as of now, but do not have a next step planned in case of failure. That being said, she apologized for the length of time the unit has been at the dealer as well as the AC issues that we've talked about before. She had just got off of the phone with my service manager and then called me. She asked multiple questions about the cooling of the unit and what all had been done to try to fix it. I was pretty direct with her when I told her that this conversation would've been nice if we'd had it back during July when it was so damned hot! She wants the unit back at the dealer for a 12 step test on each unit AGAIN! Again, I asked her how they planned to tell the effectiveness of the units with it 50* outside!! I reiterated that the unit just does NOT flow air and gave Roy's as an example. Identical units sitting side by side in moderate heat with one cool and one not. Told her that I'm glad someone in upper management is now involved as I was not pleased at all with this unit at all. She vowed to get the unit repaired on all issues. So, we'll see how this goes starting next week. I will keep you updated.
Congrats on the purchase. You now have the same rig as we do, except yours has the residential fridge. I hope you enjoy it. We love the floor plan and the rig, except for a continuing problem we have. EXAMINE your rig very well with it on and off of the truck! We are still battling after 4 months to get ours repaired. NOT saying you will have the same problem, just beware. Ours hopefully is just a fluke. But if you would like to read up on the problem, here it is.
Broken welds in walls
There are MANY out there that are just fine. I sincerely hope you enjoy your camper. As stated, we love the camper itself, just not the communications with the company that made it. Happy camping!
Have you looked into the Lemon Law options in your state? Friends of ours had their 2012 Shadow Cruiser Lemon Lawed and were given a brand new one in 2014.
There are no Lemon Laws for RVs in Georgia unfortunately.
Well, I talked with the GM of the dealer this morning when I took the camper in for the InCommand system and AC unit boards.(which were repaired and working now). He was just as nonchalant as normal. My salesman walked up too and has known all about the problems. When he saw I was getting upset with the GM, he said that he would go above the GM to the owner. I've spoken to the owner before and she is aware of the problem. She was not at the dealer today, so the salesman went and gathered up all the warranty info and how many times it has been to the dealer so far and put in a file and put it on her desk. He then called the owner at home and told her what has happened now. She asked for the things that my salesman had already done, and said she would call the VP of Montana Monday morning. She was upset at the fact that the GM hadn't told her that it had broken again. This is the third NEW camper I've bought from her in 6 years, and she told the salesman she would do whatever she had to to get it taken care of. THIS MOVE P***** OFF THE GM! Now, I'll have to deal with his butt-hurt attitude next time, which I don't mind at all:-X06
You are correct in saying that this post has cost them campers. I talked with a forum member here that lives about 30 miles from me last week. He had read the forum and he and his wife decided not to buy a Montana due to this here. He knows me pretty well as we have both had Sandpipers for years from this dealership. They are buying a Jayco Pinnacle with nearly the same floor plan.
OH, and get this!!! The service manager called Montana again today while I was there. He asked what the dealer should do next. AGAIN, they said they could do nothing without PICTURES! He nearly lost it!! He said, "Look in the d*** file and you will see the same d*** thing I am looking at here!" So they asked him to pull the unit back inside and take off the trim around the overhang and take pics again. He did and they were sent before I left. I am giving them until next week to get me an answer or I am going to become very difficult to deal with. I am OVER this camper and would love to get rid of the **** thing for good but I know it would cost me WAY too much money. So, if it's not settled soon, I will seek other options. I believe I have been more than fair.
Spent a good part of the morning at the dealer. The new GM was not in today, but the retiring one was, so he and the service manager called Keystone separately. Before I got home, about a 30 minute drive, the service manager called and asked me to call the Owner Relations Dept at Montana. So I did. The woman I spoke to had no idea why I was calling at first and then began to slowly figure it out. Unfortunately, she had not been briefed on the problems at hand. She said she wanted to ask me some questions about the possible frame issue. I stopped her right there and said, "If that is the bank of about 20 questions, Iv'e already answered them TWICE before and see no need in answering them again." There was silence. She then stated that since it was a new claim that it had to be started from scratch. I nearly lost it. I started a few words a little more angry than I should have. I then apologized to her as I think I came across a little strong. I told here this was not a new claim and that it was an ongoing problem that had been attempted repairs done 3 times already. I then told her my VIN# and told her to look up the case file and the email that was sent to them by me last week. She took about 15 minutes or so and came back on the line and apologized. I then told her that I was not angry with her, but that I'm tired of people there not acknowledging the problem. She asked If there was anything new to the case. I explained that I was very concerned that every time the caulking seal was broken, that water would get in and eventually delam the left front of the camper and then I would be upset. She and I talked for another 20 minutes or so and she asked to put me on hold again. When she returned, she asked if I had thought of anything else I'd like to say as this case is being forwarded to upper management. I told her that I would like for them to review the shoddy welds within the wall of the camper, along with the videos that I've sent them links to, and then tell me if they are happy with what is seen. I told her that I was extremely unhappy at the quality of work uncovered and that I was actually mad at myself for thinking that Montana may have a better product. She told me that someone would be in touch with me soon. I kind of laughed at that because the last time anyone contacted me from Keystone, besides an answer to an email last week, was back in late July. And that was to be told to be looking for an email for instructions!
I'm not hopeful to be honest here guys. I'm only hurting myself thinking about this continuously. I've been as patient as I can be, and for those who know me, that's been pretty hard. So, I guess the ball is in their court once again and I'm in a holding pattern.
From what I gather, it is a huge circuit board that has multiple wires going to it, with auto style relays on the board with plugs and wires on the other side going out to the camper. Yes, hardwired on one side.
nremtp143, why would the dealer even mention the cost of that main board to you? It's not like you'd be paying for it. They trying to guilt you out of bringing in your brand new rig for warranty work? Sounds like it to me. FWIW, you should post a link to your thread on Montana owners' site so we can see the full list of the cr@p you've had to deal with.
They are upset at this as well as they've been screwed around by the company that makes the InCommand system too. They spent over 3 hours on the phone with the company walking through every type of diagnostic test that they could think of to put the rig through. No one really knows anything about this type of system in RVs as it is new to this line. Then they were told that they could only bill the company for a half hour of labor for replacing the board when it comes in(over 50 wires have to be changed) and then could only charge them 1 hour for diagnostics! So yeah, a big, time consuming warranty deal.
Anyway, here are the two links you asked for. This one is for the wall stud that was pulled loose.
This one is for the AC problem that myself and several others are having due to the new "Whisper Quiet" AC system.
AC system problem
love mine to but lately the thing is making noise banging when tilting to the right. if I stand in front of it and grap handles tilt it to right it hits but left nothing
Give B&W a call. I am sure they can help you with this. They have great customer Service!!!
Their customer service is second to none!
We've been severely let down by Montana and Keystone is quality, quality control and customer service. When our structural problems started, Owner Relations called me an asked NUMEROUS questions about how it happened, how I had it loaded, what hitch I used, what type of truck I pulled it with and even asked to send pics of the entire camper including the pin box and rear bumper. Since that conversation, we've not heard a word from Keystone through all of the repair process. This unit has been at the dealer a full third of the time we've owned it since May, and nothing from them. I also emailed my sales rep who told me, "We'll show you why you bought a Montana!" Well, I'm not impressed. We love the floor plan, but the issues we've had have severely overshadowed the joy of owning a new Montana. My dealer has said multiple times that they just don't have much trouble out of Montanas, and is upset that we've had this much trouble with ours. This was my wife's "Dream Camper". Now she's even offered to assist in trading it. We are done with Keystone. So, we begin the process of figuring out how to get away from this camper.
The side wall is not moving now thank goodness. Now maybe the unit's other problems can be addressed as we've been fighting an AC unit since June and the InCommand System keeps shutting down on an average of 14 times while operating the slides each way. And yes, with the electrical issues, I've had an onboard surge protector since it was new. I finally picked up the unit again yesterday and we are supposed to camp this weekend. However the unit has to be taken back to the dealer next week for an AC board replacement AND replacing the InCommand main board. According to the dealer, they were told the cost of the InCommand board is around $2,000. Not entirely sure this is what I bargained for as all of my others had rocker switches, not a wall mounted tablet to operate everything. And no, we had no idea it was coming with that system until the unit showed up. We picked up the unit in around the first of May and it has been at the dealer a full third of the time we've owned it with multiple trips back and forth. My wife is even tired of this unit now. She has already mentioned getting rid of it, but not sure about that. I know we'll take a huge hit by trading it. We've been severely disappointed by Montana and Keystone both in quality and customer service(which stinks by the way). We've owned two brand new Sandpipers since 2010 and this one is by far the worst one we've owned. I know, there is a bad one in every brand, well it appears we got the one in this run. I've not posted most of the trouble here that we've had, mainly the structural issue, but the Montana forum has gotten an ear full(sorry to say).
I emailed the pics from the repair center along with my displeasure in their quality control and also brought up the continuing AC problems last week. Monday I got a response with the original email attached saying that they were sorry about my ongoing AC problem, but the AC unit was designed for that unit, to cool that unit, and that they had the dealer put in some more insulation to help keep it cool:? I called my dealer and they knew nothing about it, so I called the repair center and asked them about it. They remembered that my wife said that she was always cold, even in the summer time, and when they took the nose off, they noticed that there was not nearly as much insulation in the nose as others they'd worked on, so they put more in! Not a word about the shotty side wall welding or construction or even a word to about the major repair it just went through. We are done with Keystone RVs. If and when this one is gone/sold/traded, there will not be another. I know you can get bad ones in any brand as I stated, but it is what it is. Sorry to be so long winded, but I wanted to thank all that have replied and was just posting an update and got a little carried away.
After several conversations with Keystone customer service, it has come to my attention that they do not care about there customers or there product quality. I have several issues that have come up along with several issues that were brought to the attention of the dealership upon delivery and Keystone refuses to fix any of them. They are not as significant as the poor guy on this forum that is having his sidewalls ripped apart but non the less, they still show the poor craftsmanship and component quality that Keystone uses.
These issues include the standoffs that hold the ladder to the rear cap mounted crooked. Lame so called heated floor that is the size of a heating pad and does a good job at warming up the bottom of the vanity. Peeling veneer finish on the rear wood that arches up to the ceiling. And finally permanently stained stripe decals on the exterior wall that has been like this since 6 months after delivery. Keystone blames the environment for the decal issues even though the other side of the camper doesn't have the same problem. This fifthwheel is a 2016 Montana 3160RL with Legacy package. Not the quality or treatment I would expect when spending this kind on money. My first, 2004 Montana had the front cap decals curl up and peel off but I would have thought after 12 years they would have invested in better decals. WRONG! So I guess I will have to live with a 2016 fifthwheel that looks permanently dirty. Keystone has lost a customer for life because if they won't fix minor defects, I doubt they would fix a major one.
I am the one that has just had his unit's sidewall pulled apart. I'd say you are lucky in one respect that you have had ANY conversation with Keystone at all. They have YET to contact me except to ask me about 50 questions as to how the side wall problem started and asked me to send them more exterior pictures of my unit. THAT IS IT! Not one more word. They were quick to let me know that they would be in touch with my dealer and I should talk to them!!
Now, my "In Command" system by Jensen, that controls every thing on the coach will not operate the hydraulic slides without stopping an average of 14 times EACH WAY!!!! BEYOND ANNOYING!!! They've tried two software updates without success.
I too, find their lack of customer involvement disturbing! I've emailed the Owner Relations Department and my factory rep this past week and do you thing either one of them has even bothered to email me back??? My favorite line from the rep is, "We'll show you why you bought a Montana." Well, I'm waiting!!
The last time I heard, there were 22 Montanas coming off of the line every day. In my opinion, therein lies a LOT of the problem!
Check the wires inside the plug at the pole and the camper. Especially the camper one(the female end of your power cord) as the way they hang, they pull on the wires inside the plug and can pull them loose. May need to put wires back into the plug and tighten them. Happened on both of my Sandpipers.
FINALLY IDENTIFIED!!!! Once the side wall was pulled back, it was very apparent what the problem was. The side stud of the bedroom slide was apparently about 3/8" too short and was just held in place with a tack weld. The other thing that was troubling, is look at where the weld is and the little extra pieces of aluminumlittle pieces of aluminumlittle extra pieces of aluminum they put under it to get make it longer!!!JUST ****!! It's on the weak, side wall of the tubing instead of near the corner. Plus, you can see that only a small section of the weld held and started to rip the beam underneath. No wonder it turned loose! The gap at the bottom of the stud was filled in with a small piece of aluminum and welded top and bottom to secure it. Also had gussets put on each side of the stud at the bottom and welded. I don't have pics of that for some reason. I know I took them. Below is a couple of pics of the problem and the movement with the skin removed.
ON EDIT!!! For the third time this month, I cannot post pics or video to this site!!!!:M
From the pictures it looks like those "little pieces" are ripped out of the horizontal tubing, not added to fill the gap. Too much frame flex and too thin tubing. Hope they get it fixed. That really sucks!!
Those "punchouts" were welded to the beam under and actually pulled holes in the beam when the stud and section began flexing. Once the tack weld pulled loose in the front section while the rear weld held, it tore the seam under the punchout. The top of that beam was plated with 1/8" aluminum plate and welded. Then the stud and weight was put back down and then gap underneath was filled in with aluminum and welded. Then gussets were put on all four corners of the stud to the bottom beam.
To post photos do the following.
1. Upload your photo, one at a time, to this site.
2. Copy the resulting URL.
3. Paste the URL directly into your post with NO modifications.
Your picture will then appear in your post and be properly sized for use on the forums. Do the same for each additional photo.
I've been doing the same thing for years. Only recently I keep getting "This site can't be reached" error. Usually have to restart the site a couple of times. Plus, could very well be a Windstream issue. Just takes several attempts for it to work at times. Thanks
Now where are all the folks that were screaming "Lippert Frame"?
People don't realize that the steel frame does flex and the sidewalls actually help stiffen it. So defects or weakness by the trailer builder can show up as well.
Sorry for three different posts, but this is the only way I could get the pics uploaded. Notice the space at the bottom of the stud and the lack of welding!
Moderator edit to re-size pictures to forum recommended limit of 640px maximum width.