Quote:Lock washers can be the problem sometimes because they break and fall out, i'd rather use loctite and or nylock nuts
Look on your truck, you won't find a lock washer/Quote.
And keep looking under your truck...you won't find a Nylock nut either!
Elevated underbody temperatures (like exhaust heat from turn up pipes over the axle, mufflers, catalytic converters, and diesel exhaust aftertreatment systems) can partially melt the elastomer in the nylock nut, whereupon it looses all of it's "locking" feature. The OEM's strongly caution approved vehicle upfitters about this.
The best nuts to use are prevailing torque flange nuts. The locking feature of the nut is inherent in the manufactured eccentricity in the thread bore. The friction loss potential is reduced by the elimination of a washer, ANY washer, and the friction/bearing surface is broadened by the integrated flange that is integral to the nut. This is the type of nut you will see under the truck. Any brand of truck... from Toyota to Peterbilt, and all the Ford/Chevy/Rams in between.
The reason why "double nutting" is not seen is because the second nut removes the preload off of the first nut. Friction is most important nearest the parts being clamped, which partially involves the mating surface of the parts themselves, as well as the first two threada after that surface to nut transition along the bolt axis. The second nut in a double nut situation can unload the torque value of the primary nut. Not something seen done by OEM's on vehicles either.
Actually, Nylocks are used in under hood applications in at least a few spots. All the GM intercooler hose clamps use Nylocks. Nylon melts somewhere in the 400+F region. Also, there are fiber (non Nylon) locking nuts that reportedly have a higher melt point). Nylocks are pretty pricey and in a production environment where thousands of units are being produced, this cost would most likely be deemed unacceptable for the risk/benefit ratio gained.
Flange bolt heads and flange nuts, at least when I was an engineer in aerospace/military, high production environments, was used primarily as a cost/labor savings. Good practice is to not let a hex head nut dig into the material being clamped. A flat washer helps avoids generating the metal particulates and also effectively distributes the clamping force. However, it takes additional time, stockroom space and materials management/procurement to deal with separate flat washers, so flange nuts and bolts solve this issue and save time and money.
From my perspective/experience, if a fastener is torqued properly it isn't going to back out in all but the most dynamic (thermal and mechanical) of environments. In my current business (spacecraft applications), we stake the head/side of the fastener with structural adhesive to ensure it doesn't move. I haven't measured the spring force of a 1/2" or 5/8" Grade 8 lock nut but they are pretty hefty and do their job well and I think they add a significant amount of insurance to a properly torqued fastener. Again, in a production environment, adding an additional piece to the fastener, or adding expensive Nylocks is not desirable for cost purposes and one shouldn't deem their absence or low usage in our vehicles as an indication of their reliability.
My two cents.
I know you can still break free bolts where you have used Blue Loctite but I didn't think you could even break the seal on anything you've used the Red Loctite on.
Having said that I think I would still double nut/Nylock those bolts as a fail safe.
From the Loctite website:
Loctite® Threadlocker Red 271™ is designed for the permanent locking and sealing of threaded fasteners. It is only removable once cured by heating up parts to 500°F (260°C).
Hey GoPack -
I'm not a big fan of Red Locktite but that is a personal preference. I don't have a lot of experience with it but the Locktite website says the Red locktite has a breakaway torque of 150-350 lb-in, for a 3/8 fastener. If you increase this by about a third, for a 1/2" fastener, this is roughly 40 ft/lbs. I think I'd probably break the bond of the Red loctite with my 18", 1/2" torque wrench at 85-100 ft/lbs. but I've never tried it. I agree the nylocks are a better option and I also think a Grade 8 locknut is great insurance.
Lock washers can be the problem sometimes because they break and fall out, i'd rather use loctite and or nylock nuts
Look on your truck, you won't find a lock washer
I understand exactly what you are describing but I've never had a 1/2" or 5/8" Grade 8 lock washer fail. Grade 2, yes, I've seen them open up when over torqued. With Locktite you need be cautious since when you go back and check torque, you can loosen the bond/interface of the Locktite and while it will still provide some interference/friction to the bolt backing out, the bond has been broken if re-torque moves the the bolt/nut.
I second the notion that they were never torqued down properly when installed. Unless new paint, bedliner, or something else is creeping away, 1/2" - 5/8" fasteners torqued to 85 ft/lbs shouldn't come loose, assuming they also had a lock washer installed. Mine are torqued to 110 ft/lbs on my top plates and I've never had them loose when I've checked over the last 10 years. Torque to proper value and ad a lock washer if one isn't used.
Thanks for the follow-up post. My thoughts were it would be the same. Enjoy the LBZ.
Happy camping. :)
I've owned my '01 LB7 since new and swore I'd not get rid of it. But given the cost of injector repairs, I've decided to go with the LBZ where I can change the injectors myself. And get the 6 spd Allison! The '07 is so quiet and smooth compared to my '01. A good trade. Enjoy!
Found the answer but will post here in case anyone else is looking for this answer. Looks like Reese specs the same underbed rail kit for the 2001 through 2007 Chevy trucks. Great news for me since these hitches have gotten expensive! $2,300 for a Reese 18K slider hitch. Doesn't look like they carry the 16K slider (Signature Series) any longer.
Has anyone compared the 5th wheel hitch, frame mounting points of the first generation Chevy 2500HD to the 3rd generation LBZ? I am selling my '01 LB7 and buying an '07 LBZ model and would like to reuse my underbed mounting kit, that is currently in my '01, in my '07.
This is the '07 "Classic" body/frame, not the '07.5 LMM new body style.
I have a Titan 52 gallon fuel tank in my '01 and the '07 has a 45 gallon TransferFlow tank, if that matters (?).
Another option to consider: I used to use a chain hoist mounted to some reinforced metal tubing, mounted to some reinforced roof rafters in my garage. These days, I've found the hydraulic lift table to be much easier and faster. I have a 1,000 lb lift table that I bought from Harbor Freight, which is dedicated to my 5ver hitch. It is a nice option since it is always mobile and easily jacks up to my tailgate height and then I silde it into position. Still requires some muscle to slide it around but it is a better option for me than messing with aligning the truck plumb with the chain hoist and then everything else required (pull truck out, put moving dolly underneath, deal with the oily chain on the hoist, etc.).
This is the table I use:
Three times in the last five years. All times were going through Barstow, CA. A few cops there know many CA drivers tow doubles illegally. They are just looking for the basics, in that you have a Commercial license with Doubles/Triples endorsement. Once I show them my license, I'm on my way. One cop told me he pulls over dozens a year and I was the first that was properly licensed, so it must be easy pickins for them in CA.
I do carry the CA Commercial Handbook with me since most cops I've talked to are not familiar with the intricacies of the codes (e.g., can be 75' long if both trailers are 28.5' or less, otherwise 65' limit).
Never been measured at 72' long.
For about 15 years, I've kept my fiberglass 5vers looking new by following two easy steps. I've always used Meguires products. Cleaner wax once a year to remove any oxidation and other stains. Followed by a coat of pure wax. I do this in the Summer and then most years I'll add a coat of wax about 6 months later. My 2004 rig is outside 24/7, uncovered and shines like new.
I always use a DA buffer - Porter Cable 7124xp (DA buffers are great for us novice since it is very hard to burn through) for application and a soft buffing rag to remove the wax. I always apply wax to the decals and they come out looking great. If you have oxidation, you will want to use a buffer since it makes quick work of removing light oxidation. If you did it by hand, it will take much longer and you'll be much more fatigued. I highly recommend a DA buffer and not an orbital buffer unless you have some experience with orbital machines. They are torquey and can do some damage very quickly.
Personally, I wouldn't waste my time putting polish on my fiberglass exterior. On my painted vehicles, I use cleaner wax, polish, then 100% wax. Polish really makes the paint look deep and shine. But you need to follow up with wax on most polishes. I've seen a few polishes that now have wax in them and this makes it a one step process but I'm always a little skeptical about all in one products.
Autogeek is a great resource for products and they have a ton of Youtube instructional videos.
I'll miss Frank's sage advice and moderation of this forum. Like others said, I always found him to be fair. He apparently went from a 5ver to truck camper and seemed to have a strong sense of adventure.
If there is an obituary page that the family set up? it would be good for us to have that link. I am curious about Frank's background, his family, etc. It would be good to share our thoughts with his family and fill in some of the blanks that we don't know about Frank.
why do some love it some hate it is it different 5th wheels or a head thing just dont want too admit i spent that much money on something that doesnt work
I have the subject tripod and it works fine for my trailer. Two thoughts on why it doesn't work for some. They don't set it up and load it properly. The second possibility is the size of the trailer. My 30' trailer stiffens up well with the tripod. I've heard folks with longer, heavier trailers report otherwise.
If you do get a replacement tank, consider filling the entire area where the existing tank sits with a larger tank, if possible. This could mean a considerable amount more fresh water on board. Additional support straps may be required but more water is always a good thing when dry camping.
I've also made a few hitches for our 5vers over the years. From your description, it sounds very stout. I like the long 3/8" plate and would not worry about that if the welds are good. I always like to gusset the critical welds and I break up the welds into 3 or 4 beads just in case one develops a crack, it won't travel through the entire joint. If they didn't gusset all the joints for extra insurance, I'd add that myself.
Sounds like you are going to have to make a gut decision based on what you see. I don't think any of us could give you meaningful advise without seeing the hitch and even with great photos it is only our best engineering judgement and not based on load testing.
You should ask the RV shop to tell you in writing the hitch can handle the boat you are towing.
I have a hard wired system. I used the center conductor of my 7 way plug for the video signal. I did not see a need for audio. On my GM the center conductor was the backup lights which are not used on my 5th wheel. So all i had to do was remove that wire and wire in the coax on to the monitor in the truck cab. The lack of coax in the trailer pigtail did not have much effect on my picture quality.
Great solution for the video signal but how did you wire the switched 12V supply voltage. For the typical wired cameras I've seen (and that I have), the camera gets the switched 12V from the monitor when it's turned on. You must either have a relay wired so that when the trailer is hooked up to the truck's 12V it powers the camera, or you manually switch it on/off, or? Just curious. Thanks.
Check out rvcams.com They were very helpful when I bought mine. I used a fishtape and removed a clearance light and a taillight for access to run the wires and then along the frame into the front basement area and into the pin box.
X2 - I've been using their system on the back of my 5ver for almost 8 years now. Good quality camera and monitor and provides everything you need, along with helpful advise.
I had cabinets along the top of the back wall and drilled a 3" access hole inside the cabinet wall, directly where I was mounting the camera to the exterior wall. Drilled a small hole to route the cable on the exterior wall, centered and above the rear marker lamps. Once inside, I was able to take the cable across (inside the cabinet) and then down the corner of the wall. The corners typically have a molding to cover the corner seams of the interior wall panels. Pull it out and route the cable behind this moulding. I lucked out since my water fill was at the bottom and I took the cable to the underside of the 5ver from there. Cabinets on the opposite side of the camera mounting location make life a lot easier for routing the cable...