Well, lazydays did go into Chapter 11. So it is starting out fresh so they might not be the best example. It is sad that dealers keep junk there then fix it. It has to do with who pays for it. I think the fault lays with the manufacturers who ship out the junk not ready to be sold. If it was ready and the trip to the dealer caused the damage, what does it say of the structural integrity of the unit.
Chapter 11 was in 2009 and again in 2013.
Don't know if it's correct, but we were told by an older gentleman, who had been in the game a very long time, that LD was on it's 3rd or 4th filing by the time, In his words, "Monaco took them down", in 2009.
As for all the issues with used stuff looking like garbage on the lot. IMHO, I think it's an absolute blessing. A few years back we spent a ten day stretch in southern Fl. looking for a mid-priced unit. Many suitable coaches were passed over since they were obviously abused by their owners. I want to see how the PO "lived". If the furniture and cabinets are dirty and banged up, there is no reason to think that they lived like slobs, yet were obsessive about maintenance. For us the amazing part is that four out of five coaches took a two minute walk thru to know that it wasn't the one. Filthy interiors, owner's DIY "upgrades" that were awful and devalued the unit, Body damage, twisted ill fitting slides, stress cracks on the skin, sagging belt lines in high end 6-8 YO coaches, etc....
Lots of surprising things to see out there on the lot, OTOH,lots of ways to "put a silk dress on a pig", by the time it leaves a good detailing shop, I learned that I'm a big fan of the unwashed truth in this case.
As for dealing with CW on any RV, good luck. We had a blowout argument earlier this year with a sales manager that just couldn't believe that we were being so unreasonable and refusing delivery on a new Travel Trailer with crash damage FRONT AND BACK. The rear corner had been back into and the corner molding was crushed. The front cap must of struck a road sign or something, as it had two small chunks out of the gel coat, about 10' high on the front corner, and the cap was so stressed that the edge had cracked open, and there were glass mat fiber strands hanging out of the crack. After a loud discussion with this guy, it was clear that he was completely void of any moral compass, and was only interested in moving the unit, and could care less if we, or the next customer ended up with a new, and extensively damaged RV. Given this, and that fact that most sales staff we ever had an serious conversations with seem to have CW careers that can be measured in weeks, IMHE, it is a real good place to avoid.
To put things in perspective, I was in a chain drug store in the northeast recently and watched as a salesman desperately searched for his laptop. He had it on the counter, using it to fill an order for the store. He walked away for a moment to get something from his vehicle, and it was gone by the time he returned.
Thanks for the response Bumpy, I have calculated the weight of the tile,thinset and groute to be approximately 450 pounds and do not believe this to be a problem as it will spread over the entire length of the coach. Am I wrong? My concern was flex cracking.
If your concern is flex cracking, then you do not want to use thin-set. Thinset is a concrete type mix which is great for stick built homes but I would use a flexible acrylic tile adhesive as well as a flexible grout in a coach installation. I have seen tile installed using silicon as the grout which is certainly flexible and available in many colors.
When touring the Winny plant last year, I watched several crews laying tile with thinset. I doubt that the very large tile that is currently popular would do well in a thin layer of adhesive. Modified thinset BTW, is stunningly flexible. I once built a stove mat of 2" tiles over a layer of 1/2 Hardie board. This assembly sat on a berber rug with padding under. The whole assembly was flexible enough that you could feel it give and rebound as you stepped on the edge, much like a stiff rubber mat. In several years of use there were a few cracked grout lines, but the tile held tight.
We turn off everything to our place, but then again we built it so that could be done. We've been doing it now for over 20 years with no damage to walls, floors, paint, misc...
Many cabins and cottages do exactly what you are saying. Also many foreclosed homes the banks will do that also. The banks do not pay to heat homes that they are trying to get rid of.
What you need to be aware of is frost busting the foundation. Heat is meant to escape threw the basement to help keep the frost away from the foundation. This busting of basement walls will only happen in areas with extreme cold temps (minus 20 and more.)
I was a home builder in a wet, wooded region where crawl spaces are common, and winter temps. might go to zero on rare occasion, but typically lows in the teens are more common. I have seen unheated vacation homes with cracked and bulging foundations, and even frost that worked it way deep under the structure and heaved column pads upward a few inches. Now, you are spot on with regard to damages likely in extreme cold, but don't forget frost needs three things, low temps, moisture and conditions that retain moisture. I can assure you that in our wet clay soils we have three of three. When my new homeowners tell me, "We are planning on shutting the heat off in the winters" I'm pretty blunt.
I tell them to expect drywall damage, to be aware that structural damage due to frost heaving is a possibility, and that I don't warranty poor decisions.
Keep your towing weight under 7000 pounds and your length under about 22-23 feet. The short wheel base of the Tahoe can create a squirrely situation with much longer trailers or heavier loads.
Having towed at least 50K miles with a 26' travel trailer behind two different Tahoes, I can say your advice is too conservative. With a proper hitch (Dual-Cam or Equal-I-Zer)and a properly set up Tahoe, (IMHO LT tires and rear air bags are a must), there is no reason to limit the TT length to 23'. In my case the trailer was 4600lbs UVW and in all those years of dragging it, I had zero issues with handling.
To the OP, you will love towing a reasonable sized trailer with a Tahoe. I have been towing since the 90s, with about everything imaginable and by far, the Tahoes are my favorite.
Like I said in an earlier post I was raised in Twain Harte which is on 108 so spent a lot of time up in the country. One time a pickup pulling a trailer going east to west, was very near the summit......and couldn't make it.........wasn't power.......he was spinning his rear tires.couldn't get enough traction. we were able to latch on to him and get him over the pass. I would not recommend it.....but to each their own. Again, if you've never been over Sonora Pass, do so, it's a beautiful drive........just do it in the correct vehicle
We have friends who retired to the Twain-Harte area. In 2010 we were in Reno and headed south on 395 to drop in on them. At that point I didn't have a clue as to what I was getting it to. We headed west on 108, with our older Tahoe and 26' travel trailer. Talk about making memories. It was a weekday afternoon, so traffic was nearly nonexistent in either direction. The climb was insane, and I really doubted that I was going to make it. Obviously, it was necessary to take the hairpins at a virtual walking pace. By the time I got straightened out for the next stretch of road, and mashed the throttle, there was literally nothing left to give. Nearly undetectable forward momentum, and no available torque from the old gas engine. There were a few times when the wife asked if we were going to make it, or have to turn around. I answered that I didn't know if we would have enough power to make it to the top, and I don't think turning around is going to be a walk in the park either. Once we cleared the hairpins and extreme grades things improved greatly and we slowly trudged to the summit. The ride was awesome, and our friends and their neighbors found it almost impossible to believe that we had made the trip with that rig.
Had an interesting experience camping in Maine, near the Calais crossing. It was a busy holiday weekend on the American side, and the campground was packed. I started talking to a few young Canadian guys who were having a great time killing a significant amount of American beer. Now this wasn't a crew of high rollers by any stretch, they had a few cars and trucks that were 12-15 years old, an old pop-up and some tents. I asked why they would drink our cheap stuff when Canadian beer is allegedly so much better? They then told me that the average working man in their area doesn't drink store bought beer, since the sin taxes drive the cost up to 2-3X what we pay. They drink homemade wine and , beer buy all their brewing equipment from the local hardware stores and generally don't spend a dime at the Govt. liquor store. It was an interesting lesson in what happens when the government tries to save you from yourself by taxing a product to the point that you simply refuse to buy it, and make your own.
No problems with hitch or installation, I had the RV dealer order and install it. Sometimes I believe it's best to seek professional help, and this was one of them.
The hitch has performed flawlessly so far.........
I just installed the same "made in China" Reese about a month ago and had none of the problems the OP speaks of. In fact, the first one I installed, about a decade ago, was defective. The indexing groove in the threaded portion of the cam was machine a few degrees off. This meant that it was impossible for that cam to ride square and tight in the "hump" of the spring bar. A conversation with Reese went nowhere, since the clown I spoke to dismissed the situation as "installer error".
As for quality workmanship at dealers, I learned long ago not to trust a dealer to do a lot of things correctly. My very first tow vehicle needed a hitch receiver and wiring. I allowed the dealer to install it. It was not only 5X more that what E-trailer charges for the parts, but by the end of my first week of towing a pop-up on our maiden RV vacation, the hitch was falling off the frame. Further inspection revealed that the dealer installed wiring was rubbing a very sharp unprotected hole in the sheet metal and the installation wasn't properly grounded. I literally removed all of their pathetic "workmanship" and redid the entire job.
Since then I have done work for friends and neighbors, repairing and correcting a few other disgraceful installations of weight distribution, and sway controls that were done by "pros". The best was a 30', 8000lb, brand new toy hauler that left the dealer, after the "hitch package" was properly adjusted to the tow vehicle. The nose was down by three inches, and the "hitch package' was a dirt cheap round bar hitch and a single friction sway. We removed everything and installed a Reese Dual Cam before it left for it's fist camping trip.
I'm sure there a plenty of qualified installers out there at dealerships, but for every one of them there are an equal number of clueless clowns that shouldn't even be touching something so critical.
I've done this to three different trailers over a fifteen year span. The usually replies on the forum are that you need to have the axle aligned, or you need to have the axle straightened, or your bearings are bad, or your tires need to be balanced. In two out of three cases the dealer replaced the axle under warranty. In the third case I took it to a specialty shop that does truck and trailer suspension repairs. I asked about all the "cures" I have read on this forum over the years? Basically the reply was, "don't know who has been telling you that BS, your axle is bent and it needs to be replaced". Hopefully, you will find a cheaper, easier solution, but having been down that road a few times, I never got that lucky.
Well hopefully the OP has learned a valuable lesson here? That being to never again waste time suffering the vengeful wrath of clueless internet experts......
Let's take a moment to review the finding of all the "experts"
#1 The OP failed to hitch correctly, and compounded such by failing to inspect his work.
Here in the real world there is absolutely no way to determine if he did, or did not perform these tasks correctly, but many of you are quite sure that you know more than a professional who does this everyday. Laughable at best.
#2 The recall of defective Lippert couplers is an anomaly, and this fine, trustworthy company, with no history of issues, couldn't possibly be having another problem in this area.
This may be my favorite. Wow, just wow. An outfit that is legendary for structural failures of their products, what could go wrong?
#3 It's all because he didn't have weight distribution. No sane professional would ever tow without one. After all I use it, so it's the right thing to do. He is obviously incompetent.
Here is a news flash for all you "towing pros" The percentage of transporters using weight distribution when delivering TTS is statistically insignificant!!! The last couple I saw with using one told me that they are the only one in their company to use it, and it can be an issue, since some dealers complain about damage to the paint on the tongue when you take it off.
#4 The OP needs to contact NHTSA immediately, because that will make a difference.
Really, seriously? What was it, thirteen deaths, a dozen years and hundreds of reports until GM just addressed the ignition issue in some of their early 2000s cars. Really, seriously. What did NHTSA do about the deaths and destruction caused by their factory hitch receiver failures on the 99-2006 trucks.......... Oh, wait, I know the answer, NOTHING.
I'm sure that this list has a few more, but given the general tone of this whole thread, it's all falling on deaf ears anyway. A lot of you need to get over yourselves. The guy had an issue and asked for information, not your ridiculous "fact finding" and ruling on things you know little, to nothing, of.
Typical post here. The OP explains that he is a professional hauler who had a failure that appears to be related to a defective coupler, and may be a defect as it has happened to two other drivers recently. Which, predictably, is then followed by lots of amateurs telling him that it is impossible. Oddly enough, someone posts the recall info. indicating that it is not only possible, but happening to (shockingly) Lippert. Same sheet, different day.
Gdetrailer, funny you should mention the chipper accident. My son is a safety engineer who worked for that chipper manufacturer at a factory service and rental facility in Pittsburgh. They are brutal when it comes to who leaves the yard with a chipper and how it's hitched. Doesn't matter if you are a supervisor for one of their best accounts, or a weekend homeowner, if you don't have a tow vehicle that can do the job, and the trailer isn't hooked up 110% correct, you aren't leaving the gate. In our area, one of the big regional tree clearing and power line ROW outfits just spent months clearing lines. They spent the day in front of the house and I noticed that reattaching the chipper was a two man job. One guy hooked it up and checked the lights. Once he got in the truck, the driver hopped out and double checked everything.
Well you picked two CGs that are pretty much polar opposites. Old Mill is IN the thick of things. It's right tight to an kiddy amusement park, and it's possible that you would get assigned a site just a few feet from the rollercoaster. It is well run, pretty basic and located in a quiet creekside valley, behind businesses, on the busiest stretch of the busiest road in the area. You can literally pull out of their drive on a Saturday afternoon and spend half an hour going a few miles in either direction. It also has really odd site layouts, as shown on their map. Basically two rigs back into a T shaped site and face each other. Having been to hundreds of campgrounds, I have never seen this layout anywhere else. All in all, it's a good place that we have been to repeatedly.
Lake-in-wood is a completely different experience. It's more of a destination resort. They have indoor and outdoor pools, a large store, restaurant, nice grounds, excellent sites, and interesting quirks like tons of carved trees and other whimsical touches. On the negative list, it is far from a lot of the action in the area. Shady Maple is a few miles away, but the heart of the tourist area is a pretty good drive, as in 20-30 minutes, or more. We are real loyal to LITW, and it's our first choice when we head to Lancaster. There are plenty of great campgrounds in the area, but there are a few real dumps, so when you narrow it down, do your "due diligence" here, and on trip advisor and rvparkreviews,com and you should be fine. Have a great trip!
We have 2K on our extended, 4x4 2014 Silverado 1500 5.3 with the max tow package. So far it been pretty impressive. One of the features is recording MPGs in 25 mile snapshots. So far the highest was 23.3, and typically it's getting 17-18 in rural driving, and 18-19 on the highway. Tow mileage is climbing, it is currently at 9, with a 30' 7500lb trailer.
Absolutely the quietest, nicest riding truck I ever owned.
Tried to buy used from them this fall. They seemed to me to be very fond of their used inventory and view them as pets. Salesman kept complaining that this wouldn't be so hard if I just would buy something new. Didn't want what they were selling new.
LOL, this was our experience, having wasted a day there trying to buy a used motorhome last year. The first issue was the trade in. They were holding tight to about 60% of wholesale, and told me I was a fool to sell it privately. I took it home and nearly doubled their offer, selling it to the first person that came for a look.
The next issue was condition. They add about 10% to high retail and want to pretend that serious issues simply do not exist. Just to see if they would drop the BS and get real when it got time to negotiate, I worked them on a seven year old Bounder. The coach was rough, the owners did some real butcher grade work to the interior, the fiberglass exterior finish was hammered and the decals were shot. It was worth high 30s to low 40s, if that. They came Down to $64K and generously agreed to put a set of no name tires on. I just shook my head.
The final straw was a call, the next day, with my sales guy offering "an incredible deal I work out with management". The salesman offered a nicer, but far from perfect (lots of MR, Magoo road rash down the sides) Winnebago. Low retail was $64K and even that would be a push given bodywork and tire issues. His offer was $94K and giving us $30K for out trade. When I then asked why I would want to pay low retail for a damaged coach with outdated tires, AND giver him my rig for free? He told me I was too wrapped up in the figures and not concentrating on what matters, that being finding the coach that best fits needs. I told him to have a nice day.
It's an amazing place, and there are many loyal owners who end up there on a regular schedule to buy new rigs. I'm sure many get hosed, but don't know or care enough to let it bother them. When it comes to used stuff, I really can't see how you could leave WITHOUT getting a real good screwing when buying. Maybe it doesn't matter to some, but I simply won't overpay by 30-50% for a used $50K rig.
We were at a large RV show yesterday and were told Jayco had purchased Open Range, so they won't be going any where
This could be true. It could also be one of the countless lies and half-truths falling out of the mouths of salespeople at a typical RV show. It would be interesting to hear if there is any confirmation of this, as a search of the industry magazine, and the last two years of Jayco and Open Range press announcements show nothing.
I stopped by an RV dealership one day just to look around. The salesperson followed us and was giving his best try to sell an rv.
I notice that nearly all of the new units the televisions were missing as well as the stereos and DVR players. I asked about it and he said that they were broken into over the week end and this was the results. Not the first time he said. I asked how they get in with out damaging the doors or windows? He said they have keys and it was probably an inside job from a former disgruntled employee. Master keys can be obtained almost like obtaining an illegal weapon according to him. I had heard this before. The thieves can walk up to the RV like they own it and unlock the door and just help themselves and lock up on the way out.
Well, you have it half right. There are two locks on the door, one is indexed to the keys shipped with the lock and handed to you when you take delivery. The other, typically the top one, is for the master key. This allows the dealer to keep 99% of the undesirables out of a unit, without having to send a salesperson out with five pounds of keys every time somebody wants to "look around". As for stealing all the flat screen TVs, that makes sense, they have resale value. When it comes to pulling the garbage grade 12volt, DVD "audio systems" out of campers, well only an idiot would bother.
I strongly suggest that you read the post by RVhippo and keep rereading it until it becomes a mantra. Simply put, nobody needs an rv, they are a want. If you WANT one and NEED to stretch the payments out for twelve years, because you cannot handle an extra $70-90/month for a reasonable length loan, you cannot afford one. Doesn't matter if it's a $75K Class A, or a low end travel trailer. You don't need it, and you can't afford it. While shopping for a used Gas powered class A, I met many decent folks with really nice rigs that I would of loved to own. The issue is that they were WAY upside down on their loans, and praying that somebody would come along and offer them enough money to dig themselves out of the hole that they created. This becomes a downward spiral as the rig continues to depreciate rapidly, and they are still behind the curve, failing to get to the tipping point as they continue to make payments.
Obviously, the details of a low cost trailer are a little less gruesome, but it's not hard to see a scenario when your situation changes, you NEED to get rid of the thing, and many years from now, STILL owe thousands more than any rational buyer would ever think of giving you.
Colliehauler is dead on. In the early 2000s we bought a Trail-lite hybrid, and camped extensively with a couple who bought the exact same unit. These were built with laminated structure on all six sides. It has aluminum tubing spaced at remarkable distances, IIRC 30" on center in some areas, expanded styrene blocks to fill in the space,and layers of THIN Luan plywood glued to each side. The floor was slightly stiffer, since the thin Luan was doubled there. I'm a big guy, and noted that within a few months of regular use, I could feel the floor deflecting between supports. By the second season, it was apparent that the floor was starting to sag, and felt soft in traffic areas.
In 2002 we did an extended family vacation from the east coast, to San Diego to Alaska and back. By the time we returned it was apparent to me that the unit was simply too lightly built for the kind of camping we enjoyed. The frame had sagged on both ends to the point that the lower kitchen cabinets had torn off the wall and there were other signs that it wasn't going to be a "keeper".
By comparison, the other family with the same model, still has theirs today. The only reason it still rolls is that the hubby is a true farmer. As in, nothing ever gets tossed out, you use everything until it's scrap, and if you can't fix it yourself, learn how. This guy took a week vacation to rebuild the floor, including adding a considerable amount of structural steel work to the underside to keep the floor from totally failing, and replacing a lot of luan underneath, as it had significant rot. He also bought a carport to protect it from the rain and snow it gets hammered with, since the roof has developed a significant sag. Unless it is parked with the front or back tilted way up, it pools a lot of water on the roof. At this stage the trailer is significantly heavier than new, and it has no real value, since even a quick glance underneath would make it clear that it is really a patched up mess.
As others have noted, the axle leaves the factory with and upward bow. I've been through this situation three times over the last fifteen years. In each case it was the rear axle and it was damaged, (as in bent out of alignment) by striking something, pot hole, road debris, etc.....
There are some here who claim that alignment shops, trailer repair places, etc... can repair and or realign it. In two of my three, they were under warranty and both manufacturers claimed that the only solution is the new axle that they paid for. In the third case I took it to a truck suspension shop who claimed that they could repair it. They looked at the tire wear and told me that the axle needed to be replaced. hope you find a cheaper, better solution, but having been down this road a few times, so far I haven't been so lucky.
It's spreading, LOL. Local weather man reported two locations in north central PA, with Wednesday morning temps. of -27*F and -31*F. We had nine below and haven't had this kind of weather in many years.