As a 6.0L owner I too questioned all the same things. We originally bought a V10, but soon realized in a towing situation, the v10 is just a dog for the NW of America.
That said. I 100% agree with the other poster. If you see door pod gauges, any mention of bully dog tuner or the like. Run AWAY. You don't want a 6.0L that has been "tuned", UNLESS, they did the head studs and EGR delete.
Also, for towing, I would by an 04 or newer with the torque shift auto. It does engine braking and works very well.
My truck has near 200K miles and no real issue as long as maintenance is done. Keep the coolant changed as it should be and best to eventually do an EGR delete and oil cooler move. The EGR delete will require a re-tune on the computer but it is only for emissions. Check your local laws first, places like Oregon have emissions on diesels but only under 8500gvw, ford f250/excursions are above that rating as in most states. If you live in Ca. well no help there.
The Dodge issues all pertain to bad SW and Emissions crap. My buddy had bought his truck and the first week it regen'd, then bam, never ran right after that. It was at the dealer more than he drove. After two turbo's and entire exhaust system he finally figured out that his 2500 was above the 8k gvw for Oregon and didn't require emissions. So off to the Diesel performance shop and off with the garbage. Never had a problem since.
Now, as for Fords, early 6.0L don't like to be messed with and have faulty parts from oil and egr coolers which pop head bolts. But later fords with the regen crap, oh man, dangerous.
First time the local fire department had an F450 go into regen during a run to a call down the freeway, the shop mechanic thought the Driver was crazy when he radioed in that he couldn't get over 35. City came down hard on the dealership they got the truck from until they found out what it was doing. No one knew. My understanding is something was worked out so Firetrucks and emergency vehicles don't regen. I never got a straight answer as the city won't talk about it. But again, in our state it wouldn't have to have it anyway according to our laws.
Some things with the Excursion V10 and gearing. I agree that you would be better off with 4.30 or 4.56's.
The V10 with 3.73 in the rockies will have dead spot, really bad when pulling a 6% grade. I find it is a very dangerous undertaking in that regard.
The V10 is a Cammer engine so it likes the RPM's, towing will hit the dead spot in the gearing.
Also, you should not be running 89 octane in that engine, it will detonate very bad. "PLEASE NOTE, Depends if using Ethanol blend or not". On the west coast 89 octane is not good on the V10 when placed under a load. The engine will detonate activating the knock sensor which will then retard ignition thus decreasing power.
The 4 cents or even 10 cents per gallon difference over a 40 gallon tank isn't worth blowing a hole through the piston.
Also, with premium the MPG's will increase by 2mpg even towing.
My v10 around town with winter blend premium Costco gas was 12mpg and 17hwy, 3.73 gears. Towing 8.8K pound trailer was 9mpg. When I did run regular it was 7mpg.
So difficult my 13 year old does them. In other words, very easy.
All you need is the following.
Also, note that according to Ford service manual, you only need to have the rotors turned if they are warped or grooved. Otherwise just replace the pads. I'll explain how to replace the rotor too, if you are installing slotted ones.
I have air tools so I'll tell you how to do this by hand.
Torque wrench for up to 150ft/lbs for wheels, or a tire shop near by.
1/2" socket set metric.
Jack stand for safety
Large C-clamp to compress the calipers.
Brake cleaner and some rags.
Break lug nuts loose on both front wheels.
I'll give example of drivers front.
Start the truck and turn the wheel to the right near full lock.
This will give easier access to bolts on the caliper.
Jack up the drivers side and place jack stand under axle for safety.
Remove the lug nuts and pull the wheel off
Using the large C-clamp put it so the screw portion touches the front side of the pad, the rear of the c-clamp will contact the back of the caliper body.
Screw the C-clamp in to force the caliper to slide towards you. This is basically compressing the caliper pistons. It is best to do two to four turns, wait a couple seconds then go again. If you just crank on it, the caliper pistons are strained.
Once the caliper pistons are compressed all the way.
Undo the two caliper mounting bolts, they are on the ears at each end of the caliper, 14mm maybe, I forget.
Once these are out remove the caliper and flip it upside down on top of the rotor, or hang it with a bungie from the shock tower.
You will now see to wire springs in the top of the pads.
Pull one side of the wire towards you to release the tension in the hole.
Once both are out, simply flip the top of the pad horizontal and pull the pad out.
New pads will come with metal anti rattle clips, the springs the pads physically sit on.
Grab your new pads and put anti squeal compound on the back of the pads, the part that touches the caliper, then put them in the caliper the way you took them out. I like to tilt them in, then flip it up. Once both are in, double check both are contacting the rotor then
DON'T FORGET THE TWO SPRING WIRES!! Install the spring wires.
place the caliper back on.
Now, lube the caliper mounting bolts and tighten it up.
Once the caliper is tightened down, get in the truck and press the brake pedal a few times to set the pistons against the pad.
Repeat this on the other side. You will spend maybe an hour, 30 minutes if you have air tools.
To replace the rotors and pads you first have to remove the caliper as above, then remove the caliper mounting bracket from the Knuckle on the axle. Once it is off you can slide the rotor off the hub.
FYI, on these trucks after installing the wheels, with the truck on the ground the wheels must be torqued to 150ft/lbs. If you don't have a torque wrench get them tight as you can, then drive to a tire shop and have them verify the torque, they will usually do it for free.
How difficult of a job was it to DIY? I normally have shops do my brakes but was interested in doing these?
Yep. Power slots and hawk pads. And when doing the brakes be sure to lube the caliper slides and clean and lube the areas where the pads and hardware sit in the caliper brackets.
There really isn't a difference in the product lines from the double convoluted style or sleeve style.
The only thing that is obvious is how the top and bottom plates are attached.
Firestone uses a crimped steel where airlift uses a press formed plate.
Also, when it comes to buying and installing these "kits" you should know a few things first.
Both companies will sell you a 2500# bag kit, this is a smaller set of bags which to allow for leveling or lifting, will actually stiffen the suspension due to the amount of air required. In all cases it is best to remove the overload springs and maybe one to two leafs from the pack.
A better option, but is more work is a Inside the rail system, this way you can use a larger diameter bag which requires less pressure.
Although I am not associated with this company, I have used the products on several occasions. They are made in the USA in Arizona and I have visited their plant on several occasions. This site is very informative if you look around, they build all of their own kits, the bags are firestone rubber but they build their own hats, they also make bags with removable ends and such.
In closing, You don't need an on-board air system. Most people I know, after a few trips know the required amount of air in the bags. They then will air out the system when not in use. This is very common for guys who buy the bolt in 2500# kit that you see everywhere. If you buy a kit and install your self, it is very easy to do. DO NOT CONNECT THE BAGS TOGETHER. Connecting or Teeing the air lines of both bags is very dangerous. It will allow the air to transfer from one bag to the other causing severe body roll.
A most basic bag kit with brackets should be around $300. A compressor and paddle kit will run another 200.
I want to get some things out of the way first for those making gearing comments.
First, The ford Excursion does not require and PCM re-programming. On Ford trucks of this vintage, the speed sensor is located in the axle, not the transmission. There for the stator ring automatically "corrects" the ratio. This is why ford did this. It allowed them to run the same PCM software no matter what the drivetrain was built as, 2wd, 4wd, or axle ratios.
Second. 4.30 gears were an option, and a highly sought after one for Excursions. Anyone who owns a V10 with 3.73 gears and tows even 5k trailer will tell you of the dreadful "dead spot". When ever ascending a hill there is a dead spot in the MPH/RPM range. The V10 is OHC not OHV, so like a Japanese engine, it makes maximum HP above a certain RPM. Even in "tow/haul mode" The dead spot exist to the point, most excursions with 3.73 gearing will slow to 35-40mph going up hill until the bottom of the bell curve is hit. Once the throttle position vs airflow ratio is bottomed out, the truck will then downshift and pull like an animal. The problem is though, in hilly curvy terrain, this leads to dangerous and frustrating driving, any time you let off, the transmission will upshift right into the dead spot causing the vehicle to slow again.
The 4.30 gears raise the RPM, and almost eliminate the dead spot.
1500 for just a single axle re-gear is about right. FYI, check out Randy's ring and pinion . The rear gears for these trucks are very cheap, only $430 for single axle. If you have a race buddy or know any mechanic, they can do a rear gear swap in a couple hours on this truck. Re-gearing is not rocket science, but people sure like to make it sound like it is.
Funny how these same people don't make any mention of nascar guys swapping gears in pit row and running 200+mph for 500 laps, but they are quick to jump on the, I wouldn't do it band wagon.
FYI, I rebuilt my rear end in my driveway with a buddy in under three hours. The sterling rear ends are very very easy to work on.
I think there is a big difference between MFG and Dealers.
We continue to have issues with our Kodiak every single time we take it out. I've just got tired of posting about it. I used to post on Dutchmen's forum at least to give them feed back but it is gone now.
My recent issue and shock had to due with removing an access panel inside our coach to gain access to the plumbing behind the city water connection. We have a spray connector here as well, yet it says "not potable water". I thought that was strange and wanted to see how it was plumbed, well removing the screw holding the cover and what did I find? They put a 1.5" long screw right through the flexible line in the wall.
Luckily it was a simple trip to the local hardware store for a new line. But it is these types of small things that can drive a person crazy when they spend $40K+ on a trailer.
Sure anyone can sit on this list and say, yea, yea, it bounces down the road yadda yadda.
BS! Come on, seriously? It is like the lottery every time we open the door after arriving at a campground. We always wonder which panel or trim fell off this time.
If I was to put the list on this forum for the******I have had to fix, including the turn signals being wired backwards, how that wasn't caught, I'm still stumped. Thor would sue me for sure.
Now that being said, I still love the trailer, I just warn people, be prepped to have to "repair" many items. Invest in a small compressor and a brad nailer as well as some tubes structural adhesive, and lots of black caulking.
Ben, that is not true on the excursion. Pulling the "cab" off on a ford is for the diesels, not the V-10. The excursion has a removable core support and the engine can be pulled right out of the front if need be. Heads can also be removed without pulling the engine.
As for plugs, Not sure what you guys mean, The plugs are on top of the engine, a simple universal adapter and spark plug socket to break it loose works fine. Then use a piece of Rubber hose to drop down into the hole and pull the plug out. I actually had my 12 year old son do it as a lesson in mechanics. I started each plug in the hole though as I didn't want him to cross thread them.
From owning an excursion, I love it, but as a tow vehicle, I'm not sold. You do have to do upgrades. If you find one that someone already did that too, like airbags, rear sway bar or RAS then buy it. I bought mine bone stock from a first owner and man what a headache to get this thing up to par to tow right. I do feel this is where the Suburban shines. But the suburban lacks in comfort of the excursion, especially if you can find a Limited. The limited is top of the line and both front seats are 8 way power. Amazingly comfortable. My suburban, not so much.
From the Yukon compared to the Excursion on Price. Yes, they are more money for some reason. Especially the Yukon 2500 with an 8.1. Not easy to find. I bought my 2003 excursion with 130k miles V10 for 9K, mine is a 4wd Limited, The only thing it doesn't have is a sunroof because it has a DVD system. The suburbans and Yukons are not so easy to find in our neck of the woods.
FYI, on the Fords, they do tend to go through oil, about two quarts every 5k miles. So if towing, keep an extra quart with you at all times.
I go to Valvoline oil change place and they give free top offs, so no worries for me.
On the ford 6.0, 04 up is good. 03, is only good if it wasn't modded and had the EGR cooler bypassed. Turbos could be coming into repair work, but a good maintained rig would be OK
Also, on any ford, Take the vin and go to any ford dealer and have them pull an Oasis report. This is a document that tracks all dealer and warranty repairs. It also tracks any recall repairs. If you have them pull this and is shows many recalls not performed, don't buy the vehicle. Chances are it was not maintained very well for it's life.
Also, don't be suprised if the service guys scramble when asking for this report. I had to talk to the service manager and he wouldn't print if off and give it to me, but did review it and give me his feed back on buying our excursion.
On another note. The V-10 is a monster, but does have One major draw back I hate. When towing and climbing a steep hill. When at full throttle or nearly WOT if the computer detects this, it will kick the engine out of passing gear to save it self. Or if you reach the point is shifts up, then in both cases you will lose all momentum going up hill and slow to a 40mph crawl. Until passing gear is kicked in then it will tear up the road to 60 and may shift again. Very frustrating. The guys at 5star programming though can fix this. Also gearing as well.
By the way I discussed gearing with ford as I have 3.73. They said unless I tow a majority of the time, don't change the gearing. It isn't worth it. The newer transmissions are designed to handle it, and only full timing or more than 50% of driving while towing would they recommend changing. But if you live in the rockies and will be pulling alot of hills, I know from my experience the v10 wants 2k rpm or more, once out of that, your done for.
Personally, if it was me, I would buy a 6.0L in the following cases.
1. Oasis report showed the turbo, egr, or cooling system, head bolts have already been addressed.
2. Oasis report shows all recall including cruise control fuses have been corrected or installed.
3. The vehicle does not have any type of tuner, exhaust or intake mod.
I also want to say. I own both an 2003 excursion and 2001 suburban. I love the excursion. It is a HUGE vehicle. Also, my kids love the third seat in the excursion. I too like it as it is way lighter to remove than the suburban.
The suburban does ride smoother. But the Excursion is bar none a truck and feels like a truck. Even though it is wider and longer than the suburban, I have no issues driving it, parking it or such, well except street parking, there isn't spots big enough for it or the suburban.
Things I would change on it, mod to the V/B code springs.
I skipped some of the posts to gleen in on your hitching question. The excursion rating is 12k on the reciever. All excursion come factory with towing because they use the reciever on the rear as a "blocker beam system". To keep hondas from going under the rear end.
Anyhow. You also will find that if you have a diesel you need to check your door sticker to see rear gearing. I'm sure yours is 3.73 rear, but some came with 3.56 and 4.33 gearing. There is a code on the door sticker. Like C0 or such. Google search it and it will tell you your gearing.
Next, towning with an Excursion of a trailer over 27' is interesting to say the least. The wheel base is shorter than an F250 and the springs are softer, meaning the excursion will wander all over the place and you will or may have trailer sway.
Before towing, make sure you have Load E range tires and set to 70-75 psi
Set trailer tires to max pressure as well
Check front and rear sway bar bushings. NOTE: 04-05 came factory with rear sway bars, 03 and older did not, they were an option. If yours does not have one, go to the junk yard, look for an 01 up F350. Get the Rear sway bar, axle bracket and links. Cut the links down, and re-weld them. Then buy new replaceable link bushings. Pop the old bushings out and put in new replaceable bushings. This will allow you to turn the bolt around. Total cost 75$ vs $350 for a helwig unit. NOTE F350 is big as the helwig unit.
Check Rear leaf anti-wrap leaf stopper. There is a leaf that sticks out the front of the spring pack, it should have a 3" tall rubber/foam cushion between it and the pack. If it is not there you need to go to the ford dealer and get a new one, or order from rock auto.
Even after this you may still get sway, our 30' trailer pushes us around a little but I found that moving the weight distribution around helped out. Tire pressure made the biggest diffence for us.
Yes, that is eec-iv. You can use a paper clip. It is only jumpering the 12vdc to ground for a relay coil. That relay turns on the keep alive memory which cause the CEL "check engine light" to blink. On EEV-IV vehicles the "scanner" is a LED and Beeper it is 19.95 at the parts store.
I do use my Scan Tool to pull EEC-IV info. One thing to understand is there is a sequence of code just before the actual error codes. They are KOEO "key on engine off" Diagnostic routines that run and cause a fast set of flashes or beeps on the readers. A proper scan tool will read those as well. But a paper clip works just fine.
You will see a burst of quick flashes. Look in the repair manual and it discusses them. Say, two fast, then pause then one fast, then it repeats, as an example. This would indicate a good condition, meaning the computer sent out voltage checks to all sensors and 12vdc, 5vdc and grounds checked good. If a different code in the "fast code" was displayed, it would indicate a connection loss or voltage return signal not being met. IE connector not connected. This may not come up in the "SEL" code until the vehicle is driven 25 miles or so.
I have worked extensively on EEC-IV ford computer systems. They are very simple an primative. I also agree with the other poster that they will not point exactly to an issue, but a general area. It takes good troubleshooting skills to hone into the issue. But on EEC-IV or OBDI as it is known, even a shop with a scan tool may take a while to find the issue.
OBD-II is so much more forgiving. I can't wait to take the carb'd 1970 chevelle into mess with the guys at the shop for a tuning of the carb. They stare at it for a while usually.
between that and the 4.6L ford V8 I stuffed into a mazda pickup then would take for an oil change, the looks are peoples faces are priceless!
I'm reading some of the post about MPG's. Lets first clear the air here.
Year of vehicle/PCM
Demographical area due to fuel requirement.
A. Gearing w/drive wheels. Lets compare two vehicles I own. 2003 chevy 5.3L 2wd suburban 1500 3.73 and 2003 V10 4wd excursion 3.73 2500.
Both vehicles have 5spd transmission and driven in Oregon. GM in town, 15-17mpg/ hwy 20-22. Ford 9-10 city/ hwy 12-17. Both, if kept at 55-65 will be higher range fuel economy.
B. Transmission ratio with Rear gearing plays a huge role in fuel economy, hence why ford, gm and dodges are inching to 8 speed transmissions. Just two years ago and dodge gas or diesel were the worst gas mileage on the road.
C. Vehicle and PCM. This goes back to as drivetrain changes so does the programming, sensor inputs and outputs as well as optimization of air/fuel over economy programming of shift and slip points. Ignition timing ect. Noted, for a vehicle to pass emmisions it must be timed to a specific point, or adjust timing under throttle and MAP. But a vehicle out of time, may lack performance and not pass smog check, yet yield a higher burn rate and fuel economy. Much like older cars.
D. Fuel and areas of the country, US and Canada. Both diesel and gas engines are subject to fuel blending issues. Gas is very regulated in states that require winter blends or like California has high ethanol fuel. The issue with ethanol is it requires a higher combustion rate to burn efficiently. Yet that same higher combustion with 100% gasoline can cause issues with emmision requirements. So Car companies who build "flexfuel" vehicles optimize burn ratios by computer control, unfortunately this kills the MPG rating of a vehicle. In diesels, it's much the same, poor blends will knock down the mpg ratings as well.
I generally will ignor most responses to MPG ratings unless I know where someone is from. It's not that I don't believe them, there are just too many factors out there. On my ford excursion I also found that the modular motors do not like "regular unleaded" fuel. They need premium under towing conditions. As I found, our excursion when towing with regular will get 7.5mpg with detonation on several cylinders. But with Premium I will pull 9-9.5mpg with no detonation. The mpg over cost is a wash. At the pump it looks like I spend more, but I don't use as much fuel. So when calculated with GPS tracking and lie-ometer on the overhead. It didn't lie much at all. I also found on fords you need to be moving to reset the meter to read correctly. Hence why I prefer the scan gauge over that.
I will give a little more information but combine what was already posted.
Electrical: Look at your Home circuit breaker panel. If it has space, and you won't need to be removing it during the remodel, I would recommend installing a dedicated 30amp breaker and no less then 10ga conductor wire to run from the breaker to where the outlet needs to be. Note. Home depot and lowes both sell an RV out let box that mounts on the side of the house or post. Home depot was cheaper if I remember correctly. By the time I bought the wire, box, and breaker it was right at $105.00. In our city, I am allowed to run electrical, but I had to have a "self installed permit and city inspection" cost was very minimal. In some localities, they may allow or may not allow. best to check as on a home remodel, you can lump all electrical into the same permit. Meaning, If you are getting a "self installed permit" to rewire the entire house, the RV outlet would be included and not seperate. So the permit is good for all wiring and inspections.
Water. We just tap the RV hose off the house spicket outside. We Do NOT EVER fill the tanks. We keep them winterized until camping season. In your case, I 100% agree with the other poster. If you plan on being gone for a couple days, and don't want to risk freezing your pipes, then simply, disconnect the hose and blow out the lines. Pour RV antifreeze in the P-traps. Good to go.
Sewer. This is a touchy subject to some, but in our state it is 100% legal to dump down the House Cleanout. It goes right to the sewer. Some will argue that you can't, but considering it is your house sewer, not sure what the problem is. To each thier own in thinking I guess. Our own water district has also confirmed that it is OK to dump RV waste down the clean out as long as we then rinse the clean out. A macerator works great for this but is not required. Just nice.
Illinois Vehicle code for Hitch IS NOT IN THE CODE SEE HERE>>>
Scroll down to page 87, HSB 03669 dead bill...
Here is further proof.
Proposed House bill in 2009. NOTE Code 625, Section 5/12 614 is an added ammendment. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/96/HB/09600HB3669.htm
Current Illinois Vechicle code, Scroll down to 625 section 5/12 613. Notice it stops and skips from 613 to 701. So no hitch law or "ball mount"
Hit CNTL F at the same time on your key board to do a search on that entire page. No mention what so ever in current illinois vehicle code about a hitch or ball mount. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=062500050HCh%2E+12&ActID=1815&ChapterID=49&SeqStart=127100000&SeqEnd=138300000
Copy and paste both to see. So this confirms, the hitch law in Illinois out side of a city ordinance is bogus and BS. Anyone who says otherwise, have them quote the exact vehicle code to you.
According to Dave Woodward, Seargent of Ontario Provincial Police, that information is false and it is considered part of the vehicle. It does not need to be removed. As for why you were stopped, they have no answer. Having relatives who are in law enforcement it would be called an excuse. FYI,
In the states, it is possible for a local "city" code to have a hitch removal law, yet I can't find one single place that has one, "yet". Usually with officers a vehicle code infraction of that nature is ignored as they can easily see you are not from around there by the plate or registration pull on the computer. Just so you know, if your name or vehicle has ever been pulled over for speeding, Suspicion of DUI/DUII, or any other infraction, you may be stopped for bogus claims. It's not uncommon.
As for Illinois, there was house bill 3669 which was introduced by Representative Elaine Nekritz. It died prior to the Judiciary commitee. I can't find any where it was ammended at this point, but I'm not digging deep either.
Also, just to confirm, I looked up Ontario and Alberta vehicle codes. It does specifically state that a ball or hitch can not block the plate numbers. That is all it says about hitches/drawbars. Nothing about removing it.
I've never pulled a 5er but it seems they are easier to manipulate into spots over my bumper pull. My Kodiak is a "31'" bunk, but it is 37 feet toungue to tail and 13' wide when both kitchen and bunk/living slides are out. We have a hard time fitting in many places due to width. We have had to park our truck in a seperate lot on two occasions. We learned after the first trip to bring a hand saw for tree branches. What we have noticed, is older camp grounds are the smallest, the newer state campgrounds here in Oregon and Washington have not issues fitting larger rigs. We really like Washington state, their campgrounds have Road view pictures with Measurements. Wish Oregon would catch up to that. I'm planning hitting washington more this year for that very reason.