Although tires are maybe 2012s they have been sitting since trailers rolled onto dealers lot......
So new tires, new batteries and full mfg. warranty plus appliance warranties would need to be part of deal in writing and pricing would have to be 'out the door happy dance' range....
It goes without saying that since it's never been titled you will get full warranty on everything, just like buying anything else new despite it's year. You don't even have to ask for that, it's new. However, there is no way you will get them to put new tires on it. Try if you want, but they'll decline, I am certain. And they should, it's a ridiculous request.....
Me thinks, 'Old-Biscuit' is thinking about towable RVs, not Motorhomes. If this was a towable RV (TT or 5er) with ST tires on it that had already sat for 2 years, then I can definitely see asking for new tires. ST tires only have a 4-5 year life, and with 2 years already gone, I'd ask for new tires in that case, too.
However, we're talking about a Motorhome here, not a TT or 5er. Motorhome tires cost much, MUCH more than ST tires that go on a trailer, and last much longer. Also, since its a Motorhome, the tires have most likely NOT sat still for last 2 years. The MH has probably been on several test drives, to various RV shows, driven around the RV lot, etc.
That being the case, Effy is right - Asking for new tires is not necessary, and a ridiculous request that will be quickly declined.
As long as its what you want, and you do a good, thorough inspection and find everything working as it should....I'd have no problem buying a unit like this. I actually prefer buying one like that, as you get all the benefits of a new unit, without paying quite as high a price for it. A 2 year old unit, even though still technically new, should be discounted significantly!
Bottom line is this: Don't let concerns over braking on steep hills affect your decision one way or the other, when it comes to gas vs. diesel.
Its been debated many times, the differences between the two. Gasser engines naturally provide braking by virtue of suction created at the top end when closing the throttle valve. Diesels on their own have no engine braking, but adding an exhaust brake that plugs up the exhaust give them that braking. In the end, both do a good job of slowing things down when they need to, but do so in different ways.
Its not really accurate to suggest that diesels offer engine braking and gassers do not, when the reality is the exact opposite - Gassers provide braking naturally without having to add anything, diesels do not, and only get such by adding an exhaust brake that plugs up the exhaust.
Ultimately, though, since both accomplish the same basic thing when it comes to braking...There are much, much more important factors to consider when chosing between the two drivetrains.
We use the air/compressor method for winterizing, always have. Never had the issue described here.
However, here is I think where the difference may be: Even though we blow out all lines with air compressor to winterize, before doing that, I pump just a little bit of antifreeze through the water pump, just enough to fill the pump itself and its input line with antifreeze to protect it from freezing. Once that is done, I hook up compressor and blow out the lines.
I am hesitant to push compressed air through water pump (from input side), so letting it pump a little antifreeze through is only way I know of to get water out of the pump itself and protect it from freezing. Soo, even though we use compressor blow-out method, my procedure has still always been to use just a little antifreeze in the pump, to protect it (as well as in all the drain traps, obviously).
Anyway, might want to try this approach next time, see if that doesn't help. Perhaps the pump having some antifreeze in it will 'prime' it a little better, and allow it to start pulling water through easier when you get it back out in the Spring.
I've owned two Ford V10s - First, in the Ford Excursion we had for many years that we towed a 34' TT with, and now in our 36' MH. Both were (and are) great.
In both cases, I've never used the cruise control ever, when towing a heavy load (which is all the time with a MH). IMO it (cruise control) just wasn't designed to handle heavy towing very well, for the reasons alluded to here.
Was the same case, really, for previous tow vehicles I owned prior to that as well. I never use cruise control when towing heavy, ever. I've not seen a cruise control system yet, that handles such very well.
That said, I do really like the Ford V10 and torqueshift transmission drivetrain they put in the F53 chassis. It works great, and is pretty much bulletproof, it will not let you over-rev and damage the engine (unless you work really hard at it, haha). Huge improvement over what was available just a few years ago.
I used to use antifreeze but could always taste it for the entire season.
After the winter when I'm finally ready to de-winterize for the spring/summer/fall season I do a rinse of water/bleach through the lines then another with vinegar to neutralize the taste of bleach then after that plain old tap water.
..Rinse with bleach, then rinse with vinegar to neutralize bleach, then one more rinse with water to clear it all out, every time you de-winterize. Wow.
Or, if you just blow out the lines, do NONE of that, and just GO when you want to, no flushing out of any kind necessary, and no bad taste from the water.
I think this highlights very clearly why many of us chose to use the blow-out method, and shows why its not just about the $4 saved in antifreeze. Its about having basically ZERO de-winterizing to do when you're ready to camp again.
Like I said before, if compressor blow-out is good enough for the RV manufacturers themselves and is what THEY use, AND its good enough for RV technicians that are contracted to winterize units that sit permanently up in the mountains (where it gets quite cold) all year....Welllll, it should be good enough for all of us.
This thread did remind me it was time to get the winterizing done, so I went ahead and got our Motorhome Saturday, same way I always have, using air compressor. Did some experimenting some with air pressure this time. Did it inititally with the compressor's dial set at 35 psi, then did it again at 50. I definitely noticed at 35 psi, you still can hear 'gurgling' coming from the pipes when opening faucets. You don't get all the water out with just 35 psi. When I did it at 50, it pushed a bit more water out, then no more gurgling. Cleared the pipes out much better.
'Twas a good reminder why I've always used 50 psi when blowing out the lines, and why we've never had an issue with this approach.
Will be wonderful when we decide to head out camping next time, to just throw some clothes, food, etc. in the Motorhome and go. No need to fool with plumbing at all. :)
..By the way, my towed is to heavy for a ReadyBrake,
...Your towed weighs more than 8,000 lbs? Thats what Readybrake's ReadyBrute tow bar is rated for, and I don't believe RB has any weight rating/limit on their brake unit itself.
You must be loading down your Toyota Tundra pickup with a LOT of weight in the bed when towing it, if its over 8,000 lbs. Do you take a few loads of rocks with you when towing? :)
Everyone I know who has one said while it does what it should, all of them have had to replace the cable at least once, said you can't lube it, and over time it wears through the cable strands, so you have to inspect it, but both said the inspection didn't catch the wear and it broke while traveling.
...Well, given that I know of many, many people that have been using Readybrake for several years and not had to replace the cable yet, and I personally have been using it for 2 years and have seen very little signs of any wear on the cable.....I'd say the ones you know replacing the cables that often, must have a setup or installation issue of some kind. Definitely sounds like a cable is rubbing somewhere way more than it should.
Bottom line is if you install and set up the Readybrake correctly, you won't have that problem.
I am shopping for a braking system to tow a jeep wrangler and am debating between the Blue Ox Patriot and the Roadmaster Invisibrake. any comments or advise?
..My advise would be, skip both, do yourself a huge favor, save yourself a bunch of $$ and get you a ReadyBrake system instead.
Just can't beat it, IMHO. Costs significantly less than all the others, nothing to have to put in or take out, no electronics to foul up and damage your toad's brakes, very simple one-time installation of cable to the brake pedal. Just a simple, no-nonsense cable operated brake system that simply works.
If you haven't bought a tow bar yet, and get their ReadyBrute elite tow bar package, you end up getting a tow bar AND their braking system for almost the same $$ as you'd pay for a comparable tow bar from anyone else. That approach can save you over $1000 from what you're going to pay for the Invisibrake or Blue Ox Patriot.
Just a much better choice, IMHO.
I've used the blow out method as long as I can remember. Thats been with 4 different RVs over the course of the last 15 years. Never had a problem yet.
These threads come up every Fall, and can definitely be entertaining. What realy ends the debate AFAIC, was 2 things I learned some time ago:
1. A few years ago, a friend of mine called and spoke at length to a well known and respected RV manufacturer (Tiffin). He asked them what method they use for winterizing units before they send them up north in the winter. Guess what this manufacturer uses, exclusively, for their units? Yep, the blow-out method. If its good enough for the folks that build these things, it ought to be good enough for us. (For those that don't believe me, Here is a post where this phone conversation with Tiffin was discussed)
2. When we once had to have a mobile RV repair guy out to fix an LP detector issue, got to talking to him, found out that he is contracted by several companies to winterize RVs that stay parked up in the mountains year round. Again, guess what this professional RV technician does to winterize, had done so for years up in very cold mountain climates, and never had a problem yet? Yep, the compressor blow-out method.
Sooo, if a major RV manufacturer AND a professional technician contracted to winterize units up in the mountains uses this method.....So will I. :)
I think the few cases of folks that have had issues with this method, if you dig into the details you'll find that they either did not do the procedure properly and/or it was with very old RVs that had plumbing systems that were not very forgiving.
Its not really about saving the $4 on antifreeze. For us, its about how much simpler de-winterizing becomes, not having to flush that pink stuff out of your water lines in the Spring.
If your chassis batteries are testing 2 and 3 volts, I think you have found the problem.
How can you say that 100% sure, without testing them first? Does anybody on this forum know if there is a draw on the system? Wouldn't you yourself want to start with exploring the condition of your battery first, before spending money? Is there a problem with his charging system? See, things that we all don't know, not being there....
I'm not making fun or poking at you, I've noticed almost everybody on this forum goes right for the deep end of the pool first. I am not a parts changer, I'm a technician, find the real issue, and fix it at the lowest level. And do it on time, with the least amount of funds. I'm not rich, but because of this style of maintenance practices, I'm not broke either.
..Good points, but please re-read what the original poster said in the last post:
....I pulled the chassis batteries completely and measured them independently. One has 2 and the other has 3.
..If the batteries were pulled and separated completely from the chassis and still measured just 2 or 3 volts....Sorry, once a battery is depleted that badly, it is most likely not ever going to take a charge and come back. At least if it does, its life will be very short before this happens again. Especially since we're talking about batteries that are already at least 5 years old (2009 coach?). If they were newer batteries, maybe, but not ones that are already that old.
I agree that more research, diagnosis is eventually going to be needed to determine what may have depleted the chassis batteries so badly. However, at this point, regardless, the next order of business is to start looking for deals on some new chassis batteries.
We go to Myrtle Beach every Spring, and have done so for the last 15 years. We know the place well. :)
I'd look at Ocean Lakes, Pirateland, Lakewood, Myrtle Beach Travel Park, or Apache. Those 5 IMO, are 'bout the best it gets at Myrtle Beach. Myrtle Beach State Park is nice, too, but its location right on the flight path of Myrtle Beach Airport, makes it a bit too noisy, IMO.
JMHO, but when you go to Myrtle beach, if you aren't beachfront or at the very least within easy walking distance to the beach.....For us it really defeats the purpose of going. Thats why we don't stay at some of the places already mentioned (KOA, Willow Tree).
We really, really like Ocean Lakes better than any of the rest, if for no other reason because they allow you to pick exactly which site you want, and they guarantee you that site. On their website, they show specific notes as well as physical dimensions (length and width) of every site. Sooo, you will know exactly what you're getting for your site, and can pick a site that works best for what you want. None of the other campgrounds in Myrtle Beach offer that.
Pirateland is a close 2nd, IMO, with the shelters they provide at each site, and the lazy river they offer. We've stayed there when we couldn't get the site we wanted at Ocean Lakes. Lakewood is pretty nice, too, we've stayed there a couple times. Those three are all located just south of Myrtle Beach, right next to each other.
One more vote for Readybrake here. I'd take it over a Brake Buddy (or any other 'brake in a box' system) ANY day of the week.
Its a shame you already got the Blue Ox tow bar, as if you bought Readybrake's ReadyBrute Elite combination, you'd get their really nice 8,000 lb rated tow bar AND their Readybrake braking system all as one package deal for almost the same as you paid for just the Blue Ox tow bar alone.
If you decide you want to go with Readybrake (which I would highly, highly recommend), I'd look and see if you can return the Blue Ox Tow bar, and get you a ReadyBrute Elite. Will save you a LOT of $$, nearly $1000, over what you're going to pay for a Brake Buddy and Blue Ox tow bar.
Certifications are made to insure that ratings are consistent with appropriate standards. Some guy with a welder simply is not qualified to make that call.
..And you know this, 'cause you know the welder who did his modifications, right? And you know this welder's qualifications also, right? :)
For all we know, the OP may have had this done by a professional welding company certified for all kinds of work, and very well qualified to make the call.
First, local "law enforcement" normally are not the folks involved in any inspection. That is normally left up to an enforcement division who actually are trained to evaluate safe loads and actually have the resources to weigh units. Secondly, as I have pointed out here over and over, the Federal Weight Certification label REQUIRED by law is the place where the information is gathered by the DMV. That label includes maximum towed weight capacities.
Correct, inspections are done by an appropriate enforcement division, not run of the mill law enforcement.
How many times have you, or anyone you know of, ever been stopped by this 'enforcement division', and had to submit to an inspection this thorough of your RV, where they weighed it and verified weights against weight certification labels?
How many times have you had to submit to such an inspection when registering your RV with DMV?
How many times has ANY RV owner EVER had to submit to such an inspection, except as part of an accident investigation after a bad accident?
Right, never. Doesn't happen for non-commercial vehicles, ever.
Only time such an inspection might take place (for non-commercial vehicles) is as part of an investigation after a serious accident where someone is seriously hurt or worse. Yes, it is a risk that if such happens, an inspection revealing you were over some limits could be a problem. However, all things considered, I think that is a pretty small risk with many ways to easily mitigate it (driving cautiously, have a good insurance policy, etc). Nowhere near as huge a risk as some 'weight police' folks try to make it out to be.
I only mentioned 'law enforcement', as they are the ones that make the routine stops that one is much, much more likely to be involved in. And, like I said, those guys really do not give a rat's posterior end what some certification label says, and how close you are to it.
I think, lblhigh, your experience in professional trucking may be clouding your thoughts a little bit. We're not talking about commercial trucks, we're talking about privately owned RVs. Huge difference.
...if you can't pay, then don't play. Sorry, but those are just the facts.
...Its easy to sit on a high horse and 'preach' self-righteous absolutes like this, when you can afford to drop six figures on a massive DP Motorhome.
If you could not (or chose not to) own such an expensive rig that could tow 20,000 lbs from the factory....I'm betting your outlook/opinion on this would be drastically different.
It is interesting to note the rig in the signatures of nearly ALL the 'weight police' type that have posted on this thread. ;)
I can't see your pictures, but based on what everyone is saying about it, and what you presently have, I'm going to have to agree with what the majority are saying - You are not going to have a problem here at all, and will probably find it is easier to get a 35' MH in than your 5th wheel and truck.
I towed a 34' TT with a Ford Excursion for years, before we moved up a few years ago to a MH the same size as what you're considering (see signature). I have found that the MH is actually quite a bit easier to back into tight places than the TT was. Not being articulated in the middle makes backing much more simple, or at least it does for me. Also, the huge mirrors and backup camera the MH has also makes backing much easier. It allows you to see much better just how close you are to various things back there.
IMO, I'd be more concerned about the rear overhang of the MH (although again, without being able to see your picture, kinda tough to say if that will be an issue). Rear overhang is one thing I've had to be more cautious about with a MH. Most MHs have a pretty long overhang past the rear axle, which can cause the back of the MH to scrape and drag when negotiating steep inclines. Especially if/when you have a tow bar attached to the back as well.
when someone makes a comment such as that they increased their hitch/receiver/towing capacity, by by something they have done when it simply is not true....
..See, I think thats where many disagree with the 'weight police', and why threads like this go on and on.
Just because modifications, upgrades done to a rig don't get an official, almighty 're-certification' from whatever powers that do such certifications, does NOT necessarily mean that the enhancements, modifications done are not sufficient to allow the rig to handle the higher weight.
Nor does it mean the rig is 'illegal'. Contrary to what 'weight police' will try to tell you, fact is that law enforcement really does not give a rat's posterior end if you go beyond some 'magical' rating number recommended by the original manfacturer. As long as you're within the weight limits specified by your vehicle's DMV registration and for the roads you're traveling on, they really do not care.
From what I read, the OP re-inforced the hitch receiver and the frame extensions of his MH, and added air bags to the MH suspension to handle the extra weight. Granted, it doesn't have the almighty 're-certification' from whoever it might be that has the authority to re-certify, but fact is, the capacity of the hitch receiver, the weakest link here, HAS been physically increased.
Short of spending ludicrous amounts to trade up to a massive Diesel Pusher based MH that costs more than most people spend on a house, I think the OP did all he could realistically do to make this approach work, and be safe. I applaud him for that, and for posting it here in the interest of helping others.
...if left alone others may then believe that this is an acceptable and safe procedure, when it is not. Presenting bad information can be very dangerous; not only to themselves, but to others who may believe their statements...
Agree that its not good for bad information or 'misinformation' to be posted here. However, I don't agree that what is presented here is necessarily bad information or dangerous. The original poster did a great job of explaining what he did to make this rig safe and acceptable. He definitely came with his 'guns loaded' for the weight police, and again, I applaud him for that. :)
tinmac: Like I said before, I'd like to see more specifics about how you beefed up the the hitch receiver, MH frame. This is something I've thought about doing, too, from time to time.
Our 2013 C-Max SE has over 41,000 miles since late March, 2013. About 5,000 more miles were added as a toad for our MH. It is a fantastic vehicle even with $1,000 Ford sent me for two decreases in the expected EPA mileage ratings.
Just remember to have a charge line installed between RV and C-Max because after about four hours of towing the car will be dead without a source to keep power going. The brake lights and turn signals work off diodes with no problems.
Does the C-Max odometer continue to rack up miles when towed? I'm having the base plate and wiring done at CW, will get them to put the charge line in also. Thanks for the info.
Be sure that the installer of the charge line connects the line to the battery connection in the junction box!
Junction box? Maybe the Cmax is diffferent here, but on our Fusion hybrid, I don't believe there is such a junction box?
When I installed the charge line, I found there were battery + and - connections/terminals provided under the hood, for jump starting (battery is in the back). These terminals up front provided a very easy, convenient place to connect the charge line, so thats what I did. Sure was glad I didn't have to run the charge wire all the way to the back where battery was. :)
Either way, it is definitely very important that you install a charge line for towing these Ford hybrids. There are several electrical systems that stay on when you are towing (no real way around it), that will drag the battery down pretty quickly without a charge line. I verified this once with an ammeter, found that there is/was a 3 amp (average) draw on the battery all the time when towing.
I've had my motorhome 10 years and I'm on my second set of tires and I have the t-handle wrench for the wheel cover lugs and it works just fine, has never broken, and I've never needed anything else to take the covers off. I have to take the front covers off every time I check the air because the valve stems are too far back in there and I refuse to put valve extenders on them.
Same here, but like I said, the first time the MH was in somewhere getting service, a tech. put those nuts on sooo tight, the T handle became an instant 'paper weight'.
Much, much easier to get those nuts off, with a real socket and wrench.
My man, that trailer looks great! And congrats for getting a double tow off the road. Maybe you are 600 lbs over weight, but be aware, you are amoung saints here, no one has ever done anything like that or bent the rules. Stones have been picked up and thrown, you still have a nice trailer and I'm sure you didn't on purpose mean to go over weight. Perhaps in the future, you might acquire a motor home with more towing capacity, then, you won't be "living in sin" as the saints proclaim!
I agree, I like it, a lot! :)
Don't let the 'weight police' here bother you, tinmac. I think you did a great job of making this approach as safe as it can realistically be.
I'd like to hear more specifics of just how you re-inforced the frame and hitch receiver, to allow it to handle more than 5,000 lbs? You wouldnt by chance, have any pictures you can share of the re-inforcements you had installed on the hitch receiver, or of the new, stronger hitch receiver, do you? Also, maybe some specifics on the type of air bags you installed?
Who did you have do the work on the MH, and if you don't mind me asking, how much did the MH modifications set you back, total?
...I use a standard 1 1/8" socket with a long handle - much better control.
Thats what I use as well.
The wrench the MH came with IMO was worthless. First time I had MH at the dealer for some kind of service (can't even remember what it was for), some tech had tightened those lug nuts on so tight, they were not coming off with the little T handle wrench MH came with.
The day that happened, I got me a 1 1/8" socket and long handle wrench specifically dedicated for this purpose, put it in the storage bay with the rest of the tools I keep with me. Thats all I use for getting those lugs off.
JMO, but I say don't waste your time and $$ on a T-handle RV places sell for this purpose. Get you a real socket of the appropriate size and a good, long handle for it, and be done with it. You'll be glad you did, later.
Ahhh, yes, this is another of the topics that frequently stirs up quite a bit of 'debate'. :)
One of the main reasons we moved up from a TT and truck to a Motorhome, was so that traveling, being on the road would be much more comfortable and eaiser on the whole family. Would allow us to take longer trips, easier.
That being the case, yes, I *DO* let the kids or DW get up to use facilities, get a snack or drink occasionally, etc. To not allow that IMHO would almost defeat the purpose of owning a MH over a towable RV.
However, when sitting down, yes, they need to be buckled, thats the general rule we use. They do not get up to run around and/or play in the floor, either. If anyone gets up, its for a specific purpose, after which they get back to their seat and buckle up.
As to allowing them to lay down on one of the beds: We don't allow that presently, but may in the future. Reason being, we don't presently have any kind of 'seat belt' on the beds, to keep them from becoming a flying 'rag doll' in the event I had to make a sudden emergency maneuver. Thought about adding such like one poster previously mentioned, and we may one day, but have not yet. Until then, everyone sits in one of the seat-belted seats - recliner, passenger seat, sofa, or dinette.
IMO, if you take the approach that everyone must ALWAYS be buckled in when moving, and nobody is ever allowed to get up for anything: That approach basically defeats the purpose and wipes out some of the main advantages of a motorized RV over a towable unit. If nobody is ever allowed to get up and move when MH is moving, then you might as well be riding in a car or truck pulling a towable RV. Not a whole lot of difference there, IMHO, and would be much less expensive.
Georgetown is an entry level manufacturer, like forest River, Damon, and Thor.......
Bouner is fleetwoods "anyone's RV" They are good units.
..I think your two statements here, pretty much summarize the fact that the Georgetown and Bounder are in the same overall class/category. Either one would be a good choice, and quality will be very close between the two.
It really comes down to all the other factors. Which one has the floorplan, color options you like best? Which one has the option choices more to your liking? Which one can you get the better deal on? Which dealer has the best reputation, and seems best to work with? Thats what I would focus on.
We have a 2012 Georgetown 351DS, bought it new over 2 years ago and absolutely love it. It has had a handful of minor little quirks we've had to work through, the typical little things you deal with in a new unit. No, it ain't built like a tank or a Cadillac, but for how much $$ I saved over what the next level up in quality would have cost...We are very, very happy with it. :)