Ahhh, yes, this is another of the topics that frequently stirs up quite a bit of 'debate'. :)
One of the main reasons we moved up from a TT and truck to a Motorhome, was so that traveling, being on the road would be much more comfortable and eaiser on the whole family. Would allow us to take longer trips, easier.
That being the case, yes, I *DO* let the kids or DW get up to use facilities, get a snack or drink occasionally, etc. To not allow that IMHO would almost defeat the purpose of owning a MH over a towable RV.
However, when sitting down, yes, they need to be buckled, thats the general rule we use. They do not get up to run around and/or play in the floor, either. If anyone gets up, its for a specific purpose, after which they get back to their seat and buckle up.
As to allowing them to lay down on one of the beds: We don't allow that presently, but may in the future. Reason being, we don't presently have any kind of 'seat belt' on the beds, to keep them from becoming a flying 'rag doll' in the event I had to make a sudden emergency maneuver. Thought about adding such like one poster previously mentioned, and we may one day, but have not yet. Until then, everyone sits in one of the seat-belted seats - recliner, passenger seat, sofa, or dinette.
IMO, if you take the approach that everyone must ALWAYS be buckled in when moving, and nobody is ever allowed to get up for anything: That approach basically defeats the purpose and wipes out some of the main advantages of a motorized RV over a towable unit. If nobody is ever allowed to get up and move when MH is moving, then you might as well be riding in a car or truck pulling a towable RV. Not a whole lot of difference there, IMHO, and would be much less expensive.
Georgetown is an entry level manufacturer, like forest River, Damon, and Thor.......
Bouner is fleetwoods "anyone's RV" They are good units.
..I think your two statements here, pretty much summarize the fact that the Georgetown and Bounder are in the same overall class/category. Either one would be a good choice, and quality will be very close between the two.
It really comes down to all the other factors. Which one has the floorplan, color options you like best? Which one has the option choices more to your liking? Which one can you get the better deal on? Which dealer has the best reputation, and seems best to work with? Thats what I would focus on.
We have a 2012 Georgetown 351DS, bought it new over 2 years ago and absolutely love it. It has had a handful of minor little quirks we've had to work through, the typical little things you deal with in a new unit. No, it ain't built like a tank or a Cadillac, but for how much $$ I saved over what the next level up in quality would have cost...We are very, very happy with it. :)
JMO, but base plates is one thing I would not want to buy used, anywhere.
They are sooo specific to a particular make, model, year. And, many of them require quite a bit of work to install, and just as much work to remove. Doesn't seem like a very good candidate IMO, for buying used. And, thats without even getting into any concerns about whether a used set may have had its strength compromised one way or another that you wouldn't be aware of.
Best place I've found to buy base plates, is Hitch Source. Most can be had for around $400, and includes free shipping. Good place to get your other towing equipment (tow bar, supplemental brakes), too. I've had nothing but good luck working with them.
Craigs List would be another option, though, for getting tow bars or supplemtal brake systems used. I wouldn't try getting base plates that way, though.
Any thoughts on the C-Max tire mobility kit instead of having a spare tire? We had a flat on our Honda a couple weeks ago, so that's kind of a concern.
Our Fusion has the same thing.
Not sure of the Cmax, but on the Fusion hybrid, there is enough room for a 'donut' spare tire to go in place of the tire mobility kit. I think Ford mostly went with the mobility kit as a way to save weight, not necessarily space. You can order a 'donut' wheel/tire from Ford and put that in place of the tire mobility kit if you want to. I know, 'cause I looked into it when we first bought the Fusion, and seriously considered doing it.
In the end, we haven't worried about it, as thats what we have Good Sam ERS for. Have called on them before when we've had a flat, and they've taken care of us.
If not having the spare tire bothers you, I'd make it a condition of the sale, that they get you a donut wheel/tire and put it in there in place of the mobility kit.
And have you (and other Ford owners who might be reading this thread) had any issues with the "quick fuel" feature for the gas? Not having a cap makes me wonder about dust getting in - not to mention vandals pouring who knows what into the tank since the fuel door doesn't lock.
Our Fusion has that. Dust or debris getting in really isn't a concern, due to the way the fuel cap/filler is designed. It closes up pretty good and tight when you aren't filling, I wouldn't worry about that.
As to vandalism concern: Yes, that could be a concern, but they'd have to be pretty smart vandals, as there's no way to tell when looking at outside of vehicle, that the gas cap has the 'quick fuel' feature. When lid is closed, it looks just like any other car. I haven't really worried about that.
Now, where it has occasionally been a little bit of an annoyance, is that at some gas stations, you have to really push the fuel nozzle in deep and hold it there, or it will keep cutting out when pumping. I've only experienced this at a very few places with older pumps, though.
What is the advantage of a "plug in" over a regular hybrid? We are currently looking at hybrids for a family car...not for a toad.
A 'plug-in' hybrid typically has larger batteries, and can therefore store more electrical energy. Allows you to charge up the vehicle's battery from an external AC source, and in some cases this allows the vehicle to run 100% on electrical power and use almost zero gas.
It comes at a very high price, though. Typically a plug-in hybrid will cost several thousand more than a regular hybrid. In some cases, though, that higher purchase price is offset by various tax breaks you get with them.
A regular non plug-in hybrid OTOH, doesnt have as big a battery, and gets all its electrical power for the batteries from regenerative braking and from re-charging that takes place when running on gas. It can't run completely on electric power for as long, and typically will run on gas engine a little more often. Will use a little more gas, but also costs significantly less (several thousand) initially.
In the case of Ford's Cmax and Fusion hybrids, both (plug-in or not) are completely flat-towable.
Its important to note, like already said, that whether its a plug-in hybrid or regular hybrid, both can run on gas or electric power. When battery runs out, you are NOT dead by the side of the road. It has a fully capable gas engine that will then take over and can provide all the power needed, so long as it has gas in the tank. :)
I've always used 2x12 treated wood I cut into several 12" and 24" lengths. I still also carry several of the plastic 'lego' type blocks.
Definitely see where this approach using 3/4" rubber has some merit, though. Less likely to split like wood, and better grip/traction, like already said.
However, the problem I have with using rubber material like described here, is this: What you use for pads under the stabilizer jacks needs to be something very solid, that does not compress or have any 'give' to it. If it does compress or 'give' (like I suspect this rubber will), inside the MH, you will get that 'bouncy' feel inside sometimes when walking around inside. Extending leveling jacks onto solid ground is intended to remove that 'bounce' that tires wll always have some of. If the jacks sit on rubber pads, it seems like you've almost defeated the purpose of the jacks.
Anyway, for that reason, you probably would not want to use these rubber pads under your stabilizer jacks. Tires, yes, jacks, no. I think I'll stick with the wood or plastic blocks for the jacks.
That being the case...Not sure its worth cutting up and storing a whole separate set of these pieces of rubber in addition to the wood and plastic pieces, just for use under the tires. I may just try it, anyway, though.
Thanks for all the replies, definitely gives several good options I need to think about. Looks like setting up a stand that won't be permanent, will actually be much easier than I thought.
I like the weighted stands like the 'bean bag' one that several mentioned. May just go that route. Like the idea of just attaching the suction cup to side window, too, that might work.
Anyway, thanks again for the responses, keep them coming. :)
Sounds like it would be easier for me to purchase Camco's RV Dual Flush Pro, and don't use my Black Tank Flush System.
Thats what I use, but only because our current rig, it was not an option to get it with (or install after purchasing) a black tank flusher. 'Tis one thing I miss about our old camper, the black tank flush system I installed in it.
A flush king or Dual Flush Pro is a good 2nd choice when a black tank flusher isn't an option, and it works fine. However, I would much prefer a black tank flusher. I'd concentrate on getting your tank flusher leak fixed, instead of sinking $$ into a dual flush unit.
I'm considering getting a GPS system to use in our MH. Never have used one before, have always relied on simpler methods (paper maps, seat-of-the-pants, maps.google, mapquest, etc). However, with some trips we are planning for next year, I'm starting to see where a GPS would be very handy.
I've got a pretty good idea what system we're going to get, no need to debate/hash that subject. My main question relates to what kind of stand/mount to use:
How can one put together a mount, stand for a GPS unit, that can easily and quickly be removed and hidden along with the GPS unit itself?
As to why I want a stand that can easily be removed from the dashboard, and 'hidden': A GPS stand permanently mounted somewhere on the dashboard or windshield makes you a HUUUGE target for thieves. Any time a GPS stand is mounted up on the dash, its a pretty good indication that somewhere in the vehicle, there is a GPS unit in there also, which is something thieves LOVE to get their hands on and turn over quickly for cash. Seen it happen many times, where thieves look for and specifically hit vehicles that have a GPS stand mounted on the dash, as they know that means an expensive GPS unit is probably there in the vehicle for the taking. Don't want to do anything to invite a thief, if I can avoid it.
Not interested in anything that has to be permanently mounted inside the dashboard. Need a 'portable' unit I can take out and use in either the MH, or our other vehicles.
The stand needs to be on the dash, somewhere (I think), 'cause mounting to MH's windshield would put it out of reach and too difficult to see, get to. Most GPS stands I've seen that mount to the dash, do so pretty permanently, not in a way they could be removed very easily.
Sooo, anyway, has anyone seen, put together, or have ideas for a GPS stand/mount that would fit this bill?
For those who have multiple toads the RVI2 is an excellent choice. You are able to monitor and tweek from the coach via great feedback and you can purchase tire sensors to monitor your toad. My understanding is that the inventor of Brake Buddy is the brains behind the RVI2. It is very small and easy to handle and setup. I go between a 2012 Equinox and a 2014 Wrangler.
Yes, the RVi's small size makes it a bit easier to take in and out, easier than something like Brake Buddy. I considered it, like its small size.
However, I still prefer a system like Readybrake, where there is NOTHING to ever put in or take out when hitching up or unhitching.
Readybrake is really good with multiple toads, also, as for just $60 you can purchase another cable to install in a 2nd vehicle. Once you get the cable lengths adjusted correctly on both (or however many) towed vehicles you have, then you dont have to adjust or tweak ANYTHING when going between towing multiple towed vehicles. Just hook whichever vehicle up and go, and brakes work fine. Nothing to ever have to put in or take out, ever.
Daveinet: I've almost always agreed with everything you've said in various posts, and definitely respect your experience with this subject as well as many others. However, strictly in terms of what is and is not 'proportional', I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here.
A truly proportional system is just that - Braking system in towed vehicle and towing vehicle are physically linked together so that braking in one will always physically force the brakes in the other to engage a similar (proportional) amount.
Systems that sense deceleration to engage towed vehicle brakes do NOT fit this bill and are not truly proportional (Brake Buddy, Blue Ox Patriot, RViBrake, Unified tow brake, SMI duo and many, many others). Reason being, there are some scenarios (for example, slick roads) where engaging brakes on the towing vehicle may not necessarily engage the towed vehicle brakes at all. The brake systems are not technically linked together between the two.
Surge type systems like the Readybrake also do not fit the bill as truly proportional, as here again, there are some scenarios where engaging brakes on the towing vehicle may not necessarily engage the towed vehicle brakes. Like for example, in very, very gentle light braking, where not enough 'push' is felt by the Readybrake actuator to engage towed vehicle brakes at all.
Granted, these systems can be set up so they seem to work proportionally most of the time, and many of them (especially Readybrake) work great. However, in the true, pure sense of what proportional braking is...These systems are NOT proportional. Like Bumpy implied, don't drink that 'koolaid', as it has fake, artifical flavoring, haha. :)
All that said...I *DO* still agree with you, Dave, that all things considered ($$, maintenance, simplicity, performance, etc), the Readybrake is about as good as it gets (and only system I'll own). That is, unless you own a DP that has full air brakes, money is no object and you don't mind spending a small fortune to put in a system like M&G or Air Force One.
Or you can just throw the thing away and get a proportional system that is going to work much better for about 450 bucks. That is the cost of the basic Ready Brake.
back to the proportional Kool Aid.
Bump is referring to the fact that the word 'proportional' is abused a lot by various supplemental brake manufacturers, and folks tend to drink that proportional 'kool aid' right up.
Truth is, by the true definition of 'proportional', almost NONE of the toad braking systems out there truly are proportional. Only ones that are would be ones that work directly off the coach's air brakes. The M&G system and Air Force One are the only two I know of that fit this bill. Nice systems, but very expensive, and require you to have a MH that has full air brakes (obscenely expensive, haha).
Anyway, getting back to what what Daveinet originally said about Readybrake: Minus the 'proportional' word, I agree 110% with him. Readybrake IMO is sooo much better a solution than any of the 'brake in a box' systems.
I bought one of the last of the 2014 models last month. If you check around, you should be able to find some still on the dealer lots.
Good catch on your part, read on here someone bought a new Jeep Cherokee with wrong transmission and it would not tow 4 down. They were up a creek.
Thanks. There have been rumors printed in various car magazines that the 2015 was going to have a CVT, and currently no car with a CVT is flat towable. Hubby and I decided to get a 2014 while the selection was good.
..Minor correction, but: The Ford Cmax and Fusion hybrids have a CVT transmission, and they are flat towable, with full factory support (although they are probably about the ONLY CVT transmission vehicles that can be flat towed, haha).
Thats what we have (a 2013 Fusion Hybrid), and we are very happy with it.
'Beemerphile' hit the nail on the head - If your converter has 'smart' charging, then you can and should leave it hooked up to power all the time. It will keep your batteries charged, without over-charging or 'cooking' them. If your converter does not have such...Well, if it was me, that'd be the next thing on the 'upgrade' list for the RV, hehe. :)
Even if your converter has smart charging and you chose to leave it hooked up, I'd still check the batteries maybe once a month, make sure the water levels look OK, and add more as needed. A 'smart' charging system should prevent the batteries from having all their water 'cooked' out, but I'd still keep an eye on water levels to be sure.
I have always kept our RVs parked at our house, and plugged up to AC power year-round (I installed a 30 amp outlet at house for this very reason). Keeps batteries fresh and ready to go, without having to do much with them except checking the water levels every so often.
Yeah, there was a thread about this recently. 'Tis a crying shame that the CRV, a very popular choice among MH owners wanting to flat tow, is no longer able to be towed that way. Like you said, the choices of vehicles that can be flat towed without major modification is getting smaller and smaller.
If you really like the CRVs, you might want to look for a lightly used CRV model that can be flat towed?
travelzoo's response sums it up well. Yes, the Focus can be flat towed, but you HAVE to disconnect the battery. Not doing so can result in major transmission damage. IIRC, the cases of transmission failures noted on here in the past, were from folks that didn't disconnect the battery properly.
This was actually one of the main reasons we chose NOT to get the Ford Focus, and went with the Ford Fusion hybrid. I did not want to have to fool with disconnecting and re-connecting the battery, and having to reset things in the car every time after towing. With the Fusion hybrid, you don't have to do any of that. You just hitch it up, put it in neutral and go. Thats the way I like it. :)
Nomad, I've wondered the same thing. Generally speaking, it does seem that a larger percentage of Class A owners spend more time inside.
Its a general, basic rule: The more comfortable and spacious an RV is inside, the more people will tend to spend their time inside it. OTOH, when an RV is cramped inside, naturally people will be outside more.
That, and yes, with Class As, you get a larger percentage of folks that are full-timers, which means the MH is basically their home. They are living in it, not really camping. Entirely different story in that case.
As for us: We also have camped in nearly everything: Tents, popup, travel trailer, and now a class A MH. Me and the kids have always been 'outside' folks, and we try to spend as much time as possible doing things outside. That hasn't ever really changed much with us. DW is more of an 'inside' person, and spends more time inside. That, too, hasn't really changed much as we've moved from one rig type to another. However, I *do* like with the Class A (and the 34' TT we had before), having enough space, comfort, etc. inside, that I can be comfortable inside as well as outside. Sometimes the weather doesn't cooperate and let you be outside all the time.
Like already been said time and time again, to each their own. :)
out of curiosity, what kind of mileage, or more correct, how much fuel will a vehicle burn while idling. My boss left his car idling in the work basement garage for an 8 hour shift and it was still purring when we got off work.
Obviously it'd depend a lot on the engine involved, but probably not much at all. Especially compared to how much the MH is burning up. :)
is the vehicle dying the only real issue here?
..That, and more importantly, the fact that you have an engine running back there without being able to see any of the gauges (dashboard) for it. If it developed an overheating condition or other issues, you wouldn't know until it was too late and major damage was done.
how could something be rigged to let you know up front it is still running?
I actually considered doing this at one time, Bumpy. My solution I was considering, was to get a good quality wireless camera/monitor (maybe something like the Swift Hitch), and somehow attach the camera so that it would show the dashboard of the toad (thought about strapping it to the driver seat headrest and aiming it forward?) Then, have the camera monitor up front in the MH, where I could see it. That way I could keep an eye on the toad's dashboard, and would know if engine shut off, or if any other gauges showed something not right.
I know, sounds ridiculous and 'rigged'. However, a wireless camera like that would be a LOT cheaper than a new vehicle or a lube pump, and would have other uses as well. Might be a good temporary solution until one was ready to buy another vehicle. :)