Where and How to buy RV?
Greetings to all. I have been "lurking" on this site for months, but just went legit. My family of 3 (beautiful wife, an 11-yr. old daughter plus a medium-sized Aussie named Romeo - ok family of 4) are about to BUY our first RV! We rented about 1 year ago and just fell in love with the experience. But we didn't like the rental - a 26-ft. C class. We want to get a 34-36 ft. A class, with bunks because my daughter fell in love with those at a recent RV show.
I have MANY questions but, main one right now is - can I take advantage of any solid "tax avoidance" steps? We HAVE an LLC for business but don't want to purchase it thru that, for personal reasons. Doubt the Montana LLC thing is wise, these days? Sounds like states are wise to it now? We're in CA. and while the registration isn't that bad, the sales tax on a 60-90k unit will be brutal!
I'm also open to other advise on buying, but I don't want to confuse this string...thanks for any advice!!
RE: Canadians registering an RV in the US
Most insurance companies here (FL) will require you to have a FL drivers license to get a policy. Many will write it but after 45 days or so they'll start to get antsy. Since insurance is state specific YMMV.
Otherwise you simply buy it, the dealer will get you plates and a title transferred to your name and take care of any sales tax. You'll need insurance at that time. Plate generally gets mailed to you in a few weeks and you get a temporary plate in the interim.
This might be true in FLA, I don't know. It is not true in many other states. For instance, in Montana the dealer gives you a temporary (40 day) license plate, and sends the paperwork to the DMV office at the County Courthouse. The BUYER must then go to the courthouse and go through the title transfer and registration process, and pay the fees. The DMV clerk will put the license plate(s) and the registration in the buyer's hands. The title will be mailed to the buyer's address. The buyer MUST have a mailing address in the county where the registration is issued. The street address of a UPS mail-forwarding store has been an acceptable address in the past. There is no sales tax in Montana.
For some people a Montana LLC may be a viable option. Call the Bennett Law Firm in Missoula for more information about YOUR specific circumstances.
Good luck.
RE: Canadians registering an RV in the US
Your best bet might be setting up a Montana LLC. Since (due to the requirements of "Real-ID" and such) you have to have a local address, etc to register it in say, Washington State.
I'd do a search for "Montana LLC RV" and contact a couple of the law-firms that specialize in this and get a real legal opinion.
RE: Registering Trailer in a State Other Than Actual Residency
Sometimes the state vehicle fees make no sense - a state will charge very high fees, and then many of it's residents will spend time AND money to find a way around the high fees.
If the states would recognize that, and adjust the fees, it would receive that revenue without so much hassle. But, because it wants more and more, and then more for each, then it makes people think about ways to defeat the fee. The states would each collect more, AND save all those enforcement costs.
I can give an example of MA fees - the state collects 7% sales tax on a new vehicle (or used) AND then the town where that owner resides tacks on another identical fee every year you own it ... that's every year. But the first year, that's $5800 on a $40,000 vehicle ... big hit.
SO, residents pay it annually, BUT most are very upset to pay the sales tax AND the property tax when you first buy it. That's a pretty big hit and it's duplicate, not just once. So, guess what lots of Boston residents do - if the car / truck/ RV is new and expensive, they register it at a sister or brother or mom that lives in New Hampshire - bingo, no sales tax. I know, other taxes apply in NH too, but not the 7% plus 7% duplicate fee.
If a state makes it worthwhile to legally avoid taxes, like the Montana LLC, people will do it ... so, the states are fighting a losing battle. Adjusting the tax structure will gain more revenue than raising and enforcing "higher" fees.
OMG, we should run for an election somewhere ... :) :) :)
RE: Insurance/budget question?
We Short sale our home in the Phoenix area April 2012. Been living in our rig since then. We put our rig and jeep in a Montana LLC. We followed what the law is for Az. Our registration etc was much less.
Starting may 2013 we will head to South Dakota, to chance domicile.
Our expectation and budget is setup including medical insurance.
Our budget is set for $36K Plus or minus.
YOU will need to place calls to various insurance agency to discuss with them your expectations. They will ask you what type of RIG you have and where your domicile is.
Their are many good coaches for less the $150K in very good shape.
dale
RE: Changed outlook on Montana LLC
I understand your frustration but I am not sure I understand why a Montana LLC is the answer. Do your property taxes go to road maintenance? Most states/counties have gas taxes go to road repair.
Seems that not paying property tax will just make your local issues worse. What you need is better government managers or this could just get worse and your county is out more money that is non road maintenance relate, therefore, taking money away from other programs or issues.
Changed outlook on Montana LLC
Gotta vent. After fighting with the county tax auditor on paying my fair share of property taxes on the mh and of course loosing, considering that the county can't even repair our roads so I don't have to dodge pot holes, underpaying deputies, wasting tax money on stupid stuff, I've changed my opinion on Montana LLCs. If you can get away with it, go for it!
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
Well, sure- most vehicle-registration tax dodge schemes are about evading the sales tax on the purchase of a vehicle- that's why they're all centered in States without sales taxes.
The thing is, nearly all sales taxes are also "use taxes", meaning that if something's "ordinary use" is within the boundaries of the State, the tax is owed.
That's why those that get caught using schemes like Montana LLC's are almost always forced to pay the taxes and penalties due their real home State- and without getting a refund from the State of Montana or the guy that did the paperwork, either. After all, as so often pointed out in this thread, it's "legal in Montana", so they don't have to refund users one red cent.
And don't!
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
While I don't like the idea of registering a vehicle in a state you don't live in, I know people who have done the whole Montana LLC thing. And while its legal for people to do, then by all means. But I have no issue with a state bringing up legislation as such.
My issue is the registration fee they are talking about. 5%? Seriously?
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
Does anyone believe the MH owners that created this Montana LLC will stick around and park the RV in Iowa, even if it succeeds. Nope, these RV will find a parking area out of state - and even if Iowa passes and defends the law, the RV's will no longer be in the state to tax. One can buy a lot of storage time for $20,000 worth of taxes, and the RV owners have already proved once they're willing to spend 'some' bucks, to save 'more' bucks.
LOL, not only that but like my friend, he won't stick around here and spend money on fuel and campsites. Sad thing is, he drives out of state and spends his money in other states because of these laws.
Much like the people that live in the very northern part of my state and drive just a few miles across the boarder to get food and supplies in Or because there is no sales tax there.
Much like my local politicians that ok'ed the powers that be to raise the dump fee's up to the moon. Then for some reason trash started to turn up in the creeks, along the roads, in parking lots; everywhere.
Then they wanted to make a big study to find out why this was happening.:R
But I digress. ;)
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
ol Bombero-JC
"Most states attach sales tax -or excise tax- to the purchase of vehicles.
Whether it's for "road repairs" - or simply "revenue" depends on the state.
Most likely, as you indicate - it's Revenue.
In most states license fees (usually) are pretty reasonable by comparison to sales or excise tax."
Yup, true enough - the problem becomes how one state does it, and how much. No foresight in lawmaking.
We might be 'United' states, but we all sure do things differently. It once was about 3% sales tax in CA, as I recall when I was young and growing up there.
Now, interesting enough, the sales price of everything goes up, so, at 3% the state should get more revenue. But, now it approaches 10% and people begin to get annoyed at large ticket items - mainly because as I see and read it, the increased funding pays for very little beyond the bureaucracy it creates. If we see state parks open and repaired, and road repaired and resurfaced, might not get so many complaints. But when all the revenue goes up (skyrockets actually) and the only thing one finds different is more committees and agencies and less visual improvement and services, then it's no wonder the public begins to show a little red faces. Don't blame them. Massachusetts is same way - we call it Taxachusetts.
The legislatures, for some reason that's beyond me, seem stuck in ways to raise the bite on it's citizens instead of streamlining what it collects. And the problem with raising the bite, it seems to lose itself in the very bureaucracy that raises it and never finds that service it's supposed to support - in this Iowa case, it will spend more money creating this legislature and defending it than it will even collect.
Does anyone believe the MH owners that created this Montana LLC will stick around and park the RV in Iowa, even if it succeeds. Nope, these RV will find a parking area out of state - and even if Iowa passes and defends the law, the RV's will no longer be in the state to tax. One can buy a lot of storage time for $20,000 worth of taxes, and the RV owners have already proved once they're willing to spend 'some' bucks, to save 'more' bucks.
Iowa is approaching this RV tax issue in an entirely unproductive manner.
Yep - and you could mail a first class letter in the USA for three cents - and you could buy a factory hot rod (muscle car) for $3K.
I bought my first house in CA for $22K (1971) and it's worth $750K now - even with the RE downturn.
It's a CA "thing", I guess.
At least in CA - you still can buy that 1/4 million dollar motor home without paying any (the 9%+) sales tax *AND* legally register it in CA..:B
See CA "90 day rule" (which is now 1 year).
Do what the Motor Home (or other RV) is intended for - and you've got it made.
Won't help on the annual registration (CA plates) - but that's very, VERY inexpensive by comparison!
Two neighbors have "no tax" MHs, and both still pay less annual registration fees than I do on my 1T p/up.
One of those MHs is the same yr as my p/up.
Yep, M44 - the Iowa residents will be "monkeying around" - along with MT law firms seeing a decrease in LLC clients ..:B
.
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
NO laughter here,, I get worried when folks start giving out legal advice which might be true in one state but I know for a fact is not true nation wide.
And from some of the things mentioned in the last few posts the one who claimed I was wrong to point out that Montana LLC's are not legal nation wide.. Was wrong about his state as well (But then I knew that too).
When it comes to legal stuff.. There is one thing that is true nation wide, and it's really about the only thing.
YOUR MILLAGE MAY VARY
I don't worry about the one's giving the "legal advise" because they are known to be a "little off". It's the ones that "take the advise" I'm worried about.
Ya. I'de love to be in the courtroom when someone cites a post from RV.net as part of their defense! LOL
RV Net legal brief - credibility lost: advise vs advice:
~
Someone cites a post from RV Net:
The Weight Police are considered expert witnesses - 50 states..:W
~
The advice given here works as well as the spell check works.
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
ol Bombero-JC
"Most states attach sales tax -or excise tax- to the purchase of vehicles.
Whether it's for "road repairs" - or simply "revenue" depends on the state.
Most likely, as you indicate - it's Revenue.
In most states license fees (usually) are pretty reasonable by comparison to sales or excise tax."
Yup, true enough - the problem becomes how one state does it, and how much. No foresight in lawmaking.
We might be 'United' states, but we all sure do things differently. It once was about 3% sales tax in CA, as I recall when I was young and growing up there.
Now, interesting enough, the sales price of everything goes up, so, at 3% the state should get more revenue. But, now it approaches 10% and people begin to get annoyed at large ticket items - mainly because as I see and read it, the increased funding pays for very little beyond the bureaucracy it creates. If we see state parks open and repaired, and road repaired and resurfaced, might not get so many complaints. But when all the revenue goes up (skyrockets actually) and the only thing one finds different is more committees and agencies and less visual improvement and services, then it's no wonder the public begins to show a little red faces. Don't blame them. Massachusetts is same way - we call it Taxachusetts.
The legislatures, for some reason that's beyond me, seem stuck in ways to raise the bite on it's citizens instead of streamlining what it collects. And the problem with raising the bite, it seems to lose itself in the very bureaucracy that raises it and never finds that service it's supposed to support - in this Iowa case, it will spend more money creating this legislature and defending it than it will even collect.
Does anyone believe the MH owners that created this Montana LLC will stick around and park the RV in Iowa, even if it succeeds. Nope, these RV will find a parking area out of state - and even if Iowa passes and defends the law, the RV's will no longer be in the state to tax. One can buy a lot of storage time for $20,000 worth of taxes, and the RV owners have already proved once they're willing to spend 'some' bucks, to save 'more' bucks.
Iowa is approaching this RV tax issue in an entirely unproductive manner.
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
NO laughter here,, I get worried when folks start giving out legal advice which might be true in one state but I know for a fact is not true nation wide.
And from some of the things mentioned in the last few posts the one who claimed I was wrong to point out that Montana LLC's are not legal nation wide.. Was wrong about his state as well (But then I knew that too).
When it comes to legal stuff.. There is one thing that is true nation wide, and it's really about the only thing.
YOUR MILLAGE MAY VARY
I don't worry about the one's giving the "legal advise" because they are known to be a "little off". It's the ones that "take the advise" I'm worried about.
Ya. I'de love to be in the courtroom when someone cites a post from RV.net as part of their defense! LOL
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
NO laughter here,, I get worried when folks start giving out legal advice which might be true in one state but I know for a fact is not true nation wide.
And from some of the things mentioned in the last few posts the one who claimed I was wrong to point out that Montana LLC's are not legal nation wide.. Was wrong about his state as well (But then I knew that too).
When it comes to legal stuff.. There is one thing that is true nation wide, and it's really about the only thing.
YOUR MILLAGE MAY VARY
Well, to get to the fine points, actually a Montana LLC IS legal nationwide. What you DO with it may be illegal in YOUR state. Yes, I realize that we are talking about registering an RV to a Montana LLC, but we should be careful about how we phrase statements! Actually, there is no prohibition against registering an RV to an LLC, you just have to be careful about bringing it home and keeping it there with Montana license plates on it. THAT is what will get you in trouble! Come to think of it, the various states need to be careful how they phrase their laws to "take care" of the situation. It would be fun to watch if they accidentally worded the law in such a way as to outlaw U-Haul and Ryder vehicles and trailers based in their state!
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
NO laughter here,, I get worried when folks start giving out legal advice which might be true in one state but I know for a fact is not true nation wide.
And from some of the things mentioned in the last few posts the one who claimed I was wrong to point out that Montana LLC's are not legal nation wide.. Was wrong about his state as well (But then I knew that too).
When it comes to legal stuff.. There is one thing that is true nation wide, and it's really about the only thing.
YOUR MILLAGE MAY VARY
I don't worry about the one's giving the "legal advise" because they are known to be a "little off". It's the ones that "take the advise" I'm worried about.
RE: Montana LLCs under attack in Iowa
I believe the registration isn't the issue, it's the sales tax on purchase. States differ widely but I suspect that once you've owned the coach for some defined period, it can be registered in your primary state without having to pay the sales tax retroactively. I've heard (but have no knowledge of fact) that Montana registration is no bargain. So it's all about the sales tax which can be a real hefty bite.
That's not necessarily true. We purchased our coach in 2008 when we lived in ID, and paid ID sales tax on the difference between the new coach and our trade-in. The annual registration fee was fairly low, but we did have to purchase an annual RV sticker for approximately ~$800.00.
When we moved to NV in 2010 we didn't have to pay any sales tax, but the annual license fees are $33.00 for registration, and then a government services tax that goes down each year. My total fees for 2010 were $3,179, 2011 were $2,770 and 2012 were $2,448. If I had a Montana LLC I'm sure I could saved quite bit in registration fees. The problem is I would be guilty of tax evasion as I am a NV resident and park my coach at my home (in storage would be the same difference). I have a neighbor that does the same thing with his coach, but he has MT plates on it, which I assume indicates it is owned by a Montana LLC. His other personal vehicles all have NV plates. I believe he is definitely guilty of tax evasion but I just can't bring myself to turn him in.
We spend a lot of time in CA visiting family and I will very often see MT licensed coaches towing vehicles with CA plates. If I have an opportunity, since we lived in ID and spent a lot of time in MT, I will ask them what part of MT they're from. So far 100% of the answers are along the lines of "Oh, we don't live in MT. We live in xxxxxxx, CA". If pushed a little further most will usually admit they have never even been to MT, or cut the conversation short and move on.
So it's not just about sales tax, it's also about license fees, at least in some states.
RE: Iowa Bill Aimed at RV Registration Fee Evasion
NO laughter here,, I get worried when folks start giving out legal advice which might be true in one state but I know for a fact is not true nation wide.
And from some of the things mentioned in the last few posts the one who claimed I was wrong to point out that Montana LLC's are not legal nation wide.. Was wrong about his state as well (But then I knew that too).
When it comes to legal stuff.. There is one thing that is true nation wide, and it's really about the only thing.
YOUR MILLAGE MAY VARY
RE: Montana LLCs under attack in Iowa
Whenever the discussion about the Montana LLC's comes up it seems like people get divided up into two different camps. On the one side we have "I'm not paying those #@%^& taxing people a dime if I can get away with it!" group and on the other side we have the "Pay your taxes you Commie!" group.
Let's look at the reality of the Montana LLC. If you can comply with the law of your state and prove that compliance then you are not violating any law with using a Montana LLC. On the other hand, if you cannot meet those requirements then you are breaking the law and deserve to be punished.
For those that say someone should pay taxes they may not legally owe, I would pose a simple question, Do you voluntarily pay more in taxes than you owe? Or perhaps I could rephrase it to Do you feel it is more patriotic to overpay your taxes? For most of us the answer to those questions are pretty simple. We deduct the interest on our RV's because the law allows us to deduct it. We deduct the sales tax on our RV's because the law allows us to deduct it. There is nothing immoral or illegal about reducing one's taxes through legal means.
Each person's situation is different. I looked at the Montana LLC before I bought my rig. I could not comply with NY law by using the Montana LLC so I didn't go that route. If my circumstances were different and I could have complied with the law then I probably would have used the Montana LLC.
What is legal and what is not? Do your research and then make your determination. It ain't rocket science or even RV science.
