Either the ISB's had more HP than advertised, the 454's had less, you weren't propped as well as you thought, or some combination of the three. Not complicated.
Note: maybe ten years ago, my cousin and his friend bought Mastercraft ski boats. Both bought them new (same dealer), the boats were absolutely identical down to the graphics, they were built within a week of each other with identical engines (Ford 351W, I think 225HP). My cousin's topped out 8-10MPH slower, solo or pulling a skier.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with 3 nutty cats
My beloved St. Bernard, Marm, lost him 1/2/12
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion
Not ISB's. 1998 12 valve. WOT reached rated RPM on the 454's as it did on original 440 Chryslers also raed at 330 HP. And for honest ratings they are really only 260HP, Still can't figure out why the marketing guys call them 270's. Also the tanks are in the rear and it runs the same speeds full or light (down 150 gallons which equals about 1000 lbs). The GM's were new 330 HP Mercruisers. Here is a little bit I will give away on Diesels in general. I chose the Cummins since at rated HP they are only at 2600 RPM. The other choice was 315 HP Yanmars that runs at 3400 RPM. The shop that installed my engines has the numbers on the exact same boat as mine with the Yanmars show that it takes longer to plane off and only beats my top end by 1 MPH. You can bring up all the speculation you want but a diesel that makes its power down low pulls a heavy load better than high RPM (gas or Diesel)engines. Damn, the zipper on this suit is stuck and it's starting to get hot in here. OTR truckers with 400 HP engines that can pull 80K help me out here.
I go away for a few hours and we are racing boats now??
A math problem:
Electric motor A produces 700 ft lb of torque at 2500 rpm and is hooked directly to a hydraulic pump via a rigid coupling.
Electric motor B produces 350 ft lb of torque at 5000 rpm and is mounted to a 2:1 reduction gearbox. The output shaft of the gearbox is hooked to a hydraulic pump via a rigid coupling.
Which ELECTRIC motor delivers more torque to the input shaft of the pump. Which pump delivers more Power to the input shaft of the pump. Assume no losses from the couplings or reducer.
The snaggle toothed diesel guys can't admit to facts so they go back to chest pounding to make their argument.
Diesel, gas, electric, steam... It's all horsepower. Speaking of steam, that's chugging a long. Why do diesels have to scream at 2000-3000rpm to pull a grade? How can you possibly relax with your engines running at speeds that are a blur to the naked eye? Gives me a migraine just thinking about it.
'10 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
'07 KZ Jag 28JFSS.
Do you still grin when you need to stop twice as often to fuel up as a diesel?
Stop and think about that cost of operation, with gas at about $3.70 a gal, and Diesel at $4.10 that is only a 10 percent difference in cost of fuel, and if I get 12 mpg and you get 7 mpg, that is 40 percent better fuel mileage, I am making up the cost difference and then add the higher resale, and I just keep grinning!
I would like to undersand where gas drivers get that diesel has higher maintenance cost, oil changes only need to happen at most half as often as gas, so that becomes a push with almost twice the amount of oil.
No regular scheduled tune ups, belts, hoses, and coolant about the same as my old 460 gasser.
Once again Diesel isn't for everyone, that is just a fact, but don't slam it just because you don't want it, don't slam it.
I pull about 12K 18.5K GCVW, and would not want to do with a gas engine.
Don't know about the poster you're assuming but, I stop at the same 200~ mile stops I always have gas or diesel. And yes I smile a lot.
I've thought about fuel mileage. I got 10.5~ towing our 10k~ lb 5th wheel with our diesels and got 8.5~ towing the same 5th wheel the same speeds over the same routes with our previous Hemi powered 2500HD Ram.
Since you pay $10k~ more for a diesel pickup when you buy it, I certainly hope you get more for it when you sell it.
I change my 7 qts of oil at 5k miles in my 5.4L F250. Same with the Hemi. The Cummins 12qts got changed at 7500 miles.
Not sure what tune ups you refer to. The plugs aren't scheduled for change until 100k miles. All else is the same except 25k on the fuel filters. If you're comparing to an old 460, lets be fair and use a '95~ diesel for comparison.
It's seems you're the one slamming other peoples' engine choices. If the differences where as drastic as you claim, I would have traded back to diesel long ago. It just isn't so.
Whoa Hannibal, only 10.5 from your Cummins days??? That's a bit low....4.10 gears maybe? I've always run at 13 mpg with a 10,000lb trailer up and down the interstate.
* This post was
edited 08/17/12 09:54am by Ram4Sam *
2001.5 Dodge QC2500 coal burner, 6spd,BD brake,a pile of other stuff!
little black box, K&N'd,only smokes a little....
2008 Thor Jazz 2870UK 5er
I have been reading this thread with great interest for several months.....interest and the entertainment value! I will state right up front that I am a believer in HP. It is HP that moves the load and not torque.....low rpm torque produces more HP at low engine RPM. Nothing more and nothing less.
I have an 11000# 5th wheel that I tow in the mountains of NE OR and SE WA. I have towed this trailer with an 06 Dodge Cummmins with an auto, an 07 Chevy with a 6.0 liter and 4.10s, and a new Dodge Cummins. Of the three I prefer either the Chevy or the new Dodge....I did not like the 06 Dodge.
The 5.9 Cummins towed the trailer with no fuss. It would pull Cabbage Hill south of Pendleton, OR at 60 mph with no sweat. It would accelerate from 40 bact to 60 on the hill with no issue. It had great pulling power and was good to drive when loaded. However, it was a bear to drive empty. It had a severe hesitation when giving it the throttle. This hesitation was not turbo lad either, it just had a severe flat spot off idle. This truck got a maximum of 18 on the highway and about 10 average when towing.
The Chevy was a joy to drive no matter where you were or when towing the trailer. It pulled the trailer on the flat at the same 60 mph as the Cummins with no lack of power. When pulling Cabbage, I would slow to 45 in second gear. This resulted in an engine rpm of about 3600, which gave plenty of power to pull the hill......albeit at 15 mph slower than the Cummins. This was fine with me. I also concentrated on slowly pulling the gas out of the engine as it climbed small hills to prevent downshifting into second gear. By watching the way I drove, I averaged 8.5 mpg pulling the trailer. One advantage of the gasser was the increased payload due to the lighter drive train. I was always well within the GW of the truck. This truck got a maximum of 13 mpg on the highway, so it cost of fuel for it was higher than the diesel, but it was a much cheaper truck to start with.
I really liked the Chevy, but we bought 40 acres in the mountains and I needed 4WD, so I decided to buy myself one last new truck. After test driving a new Dodge with a Cummins, and finding it not to have the issue that my 06 did, I decided to buy it.
So the question is, how does it compare to the gasser.......
It compares very favorably. This one is new, so it is still getting loosened up, but it gets 10 pulling the trailer and about 12.5 average highway and around town.
I pull the trailer at the posted speed limits....60 in WA and 55 in OR. Cummins states that this engine should be run at around 2000 rpm when towing, so with 3.73 gears, I run it in 5th gear. This results in about 1800 rpm at 55 and 1950 at 60. It pulls cabbage at 60 just like the 06 did with no sweat. It is a dream to drive as it rides better and is much quieter that either of the other tow trucks I towed the trailer with.
So after having all three, which is the best? I would pick the Chevy gasser any day over the 06 Dodge. It drove better, rode better, and was much more responsive than the Cummins......my guess is there was something wrong with the Cummins. And I would pick it for towing over the 06 Cummins without question.
However, this new truck is a different animal. It is great to drive day to day and much more quiet than the other two. The interior is nicer, the seats more comfortable, and it pulls the trailer without fuss. I would pick this over the gasser except for one issue......cost. It is a much more expensive truck, but should last long enough to run the cost per mile down.
In the end, I believe each of us should buy what blows our skirt up and pay no attention to what other say about our choice. I know I would have been happy to keep the gasser except for the 4WD issue, but now that I have my new Dodge, I think I'll keep it.
These new Dodges are rated at 800 ft-lbs of torque and 1600 rpm so they make much better low end HP and the result of this low end HP is better towing at low RPM.......!