Desert1: You are correct. F-250/350 SRW are rated at 20,000lbs GCWR. I was stating what my friend does (and doesn't care that he's "2,000lbs over." Over what, I'm not sure. I don't know if that GCWR or Ford's Tow Rating. You are correct that this is F-450/550 area. Both of those, like the 250/350 have the same GCWR, while the 550 has a high payload capacity. IIRC, they have a GCWR of like 26,000lbs with 17,000lbs rated towing. These two trucks are only sold from Ford as chassis cabs. Any bed or whatever is aftermarket.
It's best to go off of the GVWR and GCWR to find your available capacities. Don't forget to weigh YOUR vehicle. My friend has added step bars. He may go to a supercharger next if the gear swap doesn't work. He's getting about 6MPG with the V-10 as it stands. He was at 8MPG with the 28'.
nreyn: The endorsement for 5th is what you quoted, "- with a vehicle weighing 4,000 lbs. or more unladen, a 5th wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. but under 15,000 lbs. GVWR, when towing is not compensation and with endorsement." (See the last 3 words.
The only talk we had for any other endorsement is for pulling doubles (say a standard 5th wheel TT and a trailer with the toys on it). The way *I* read the vehicle code, you have to have a Commercial lic. But evidentally DMV is issuing, and CHP is honoring doubles on a Class A NC.
Class A is higher weights and/or trailering. Just depends on Comm. vs. Non-Comm. Class A Comm. is basically what the 18 wheeler truckers have to have. Commercial DL reqs and what not are actually set at the Federal level do to most of the traffic being Interstate (last part is assumption on my part). Makes it easier on truckers going state to state. Everything is the same.
2004 F-150 XL St. Cab Short Bed 4.6L/AT/3.55:1 (Gotta love a cool boss)
2003 Yamaha Warrior (take a guess on the color)
3 person tent and way too much camping gear for one guy (no longer feeling out of place: tent forum!)
BlackandRedWarrior...I didn't want to go here, but maybe you should share this with your buddy...
This sad story was posted by a member of another discussion board I visit (Glamisdunes.com):
"Well, after almost a year has passed since my buddy lost control of his FS3000 (30ft) toy hauler being pulled by his F-250 coming down Sierra pass. He had sway bars and bags. The trailer swayed somehow and took over the control of his tow rig. He ended up smashing into another vehicle and the passenger in the other was killed and the driver injured.
The highway patrol cited him for hauling the trailer with a tow vehicle that was not rated for the weights of the trailer even though he was not too loaded up. The injured sued him big time, the insurance company disowned him due to the fact that he was improperly rigged and was "using his vehicle for purposes not intended by the manufacturer" even though they insured both vehicles.
He is awaiting trial for manslaughter, lost a civil suit for 1.2 million dollars, of which he was able to get 300,000 dollars from his insurances company sold his home, toys and vacation property to pay for it.
His wife divorced him and he is probably going to do some time.
Bottom line is the man is broke, lost his wife, affected PERMANENTLY the life of another man, and killed a woman all because he didn't want to spend another few grand for the right sized tow vehicle.
Moral of this lesson: BE WARNED! You idiots out there that know you are over limits or running too small size tow rigs, PRAY you never get in an accident!
If you have any questions about this, I know the whole story and would be happy to share if any of you want to know more."
-Here is one of the replys:
"I would like to know if the CHP weighed his rig to know how much it weighed. They must have in order for people to win a suit against him.
You say he was not that loaded up but was over the weight limit, how much did his FS3000 weigh at the time of the accident.
Another note I think is worth mentioning is that and F-350 does not have any more trailer towing capacity than an F-250 they are both 20,000 # Combined and a maximum trailer weight of 12,500#. This is for a crew cab 4x4 6.0 diesel and pull trailer.
I would really like to know the weight specifics of your friends rig at the time of the accident."
-And the answer:
"His tow vehicle was a f-250 2WD crew cab with a powerstroke diesel.
Yes they weighed his rig after the accident and he was cited AFTER the accident. They were thorough in the investigation, after all, there was a death. I do not know what an FS3000 weighs without annything in it. He had 4 quads in it, 1/4 tank water, full gas for Gen,gas station, and food for a 4 day trip, as well as items for he and his wife.
He was one of these guys who liked to make "time" and was not the least afraid, or as I like to think about it, "reverent" to the fact he was hauling a lot of weight and should drive like a semi driver as opposed to a sports car driver. I am sure these things came into play. He only got the insurance because they had insured both rigs, thus implying they knew he was hauling with the truck. They paid their limits and walked away, disowning him like a hot potato."
04 F350 Diesel CrewCab 4x4
Looking for new ToyHauler
DS650, 440EX, TTR125
Maybe this will help some people out: 1999 - 2004 Weight Ratings for Vehicles...every vehicle from Audi's to VW's.
http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175
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Thanks for the link. Does it have the correct information? It shows that the 00' GMC Siera 2500 with 3.73 can tow 9,200 and 11,200 with 4.10 gear. GM's website show different numbers.
To be honest with you, I just scrolled thru and looked at the Ford numbers...they were the same from the Brochure. I guess I should post that link with a disclaimer?? Did I open another can of worms??? Good thing I like worms
Now back to our regularly scheduled program...My trailer "Weighs" more than yours...
Desert1,
I`d like to add to the weight issue-- in very fine print at the bottom of the brochure from Ford-- Crew Cab 2500 tow capacity is 10,800 # for fifth wheel.
Screamingeagle
2008 F450 Lariat
2008 Big Sky 340RLQ
Drew and Judi and the boxer boys
Desert: I've followed that same thought in my other "bashing" of people who tow over the limit (a few hear have seen me barade the Tundra and Titan, and beat up on weight limits over on atvconnection.com). Although my friend isn't married, he GF would probably bail on him, he'd lose his house and his parents would lose their business. The 350 is owned by the company from what I was told. He also lives in CA with a vehicle purchased new in Oregon and registered there. Supposedly he owns property there, but since he has a DL in CA, lives here, and votes here he's bound by CA law. Which says you can't buy a vehicle less that 6 mos. old outside of CA and bring it here.
I've followed the thing of the insurance company walking away from a claim like that. He was lucky. They could have stuck him with the full bill, and personally I think they should have. Personally, I think also that the RV dealers should bear some responsibility in some situations. Especially (like my friend) they sold him the trailer and hitch and installed the hitch in his truck for a vehicle that was too heavy to pull behind his truck. I guess they could say "he left here fine" which was probably true as far as weights go as it was dry, yet used.
As you can tell, there's no way I could be an RV sales guy. I'd laugh at someone wanting to pull some of these behemoths even with duallies. They clearly require Class IV and Class V trucks. I'm not sure how the new '05 Super Duties stack up. I know you can go up to 17,000lbs towing, supposedly, but again, that's with only a 5th wheel and probably just the driver.
I'm not one for legislating too much, but I think something needs to be done that sets guidelines for how a manufacturer can list a tow rating. A set weight should be used for the driver allowance weight added to the curb weight of the vehicle. And it should be clearly marked that it's with only one occupant, the driver and no cargo. They should also use standard practices for taking into account the tongue weight on the GVW of the vehicle. Say the 10% rule.
As far as RV Trailers, I feel that the safety plate should list the as constructed weight of THAT unit. Basically the shipping weight. Some manufacturers do that it seems, but others obviously weigh only the box.
There also needs to be a LOT of education performed. It'd be interesting to see if CA Parks would let people hand out flyers at the booths that had the information we've discussed here. Just to enlighten people. Too many people want something bigger and better (ala my friend) but ignore people that say, "No, you can't do it."
Trucks today are a very powerful compared to only a few years ago. Yet the chassis and rest of the trucks haven't advanced as fast. Most of those Class IV & V trucks use the same engine and tranny that the lower Class trucks use. They just make up for it with big differentials frames.
Warrior...I totally agree with you about this topic. Unfortunately, Many people say "Well we only go a couple of times a year" or "I'm a safe driver, it won't happen to me". That's all fine & dandy, until Grandpa Joe / 17yo with new license / ( insert whoever here ) pulls out in front of you in his lil' pinto, and you can't stop. Like I stated before, I towed a behemoth, I don't think it was safe, it WAS way over the limit of my truck, Didn't have the license, etc. I Love My Freedom, My Family, & My Toys too much to take the chance...and that's my choice. I also agree with you about Tundra's, Titan's, & 1/2 Ton PU's towing 10-12k lbs...but hey, it's their choice ( just Don't hit my family with that thing ). My Buddy has a bigazz Excursion Diesel that he tows a 26' Fury with, he tells me Even with all the hitch stuff, It is still a handful.
Like I said before, I'm only sharing the Facts with my fellow RVER's. How even one deals with it is up to them. It just makes me cringe everytime I'm at the RV dealer and they tell some poor misinformed newbie that he can tow that 36' trailer with his lil' ol' pickup, or someone on here says heck ya, I tow 12,000 lbs with my 2wd 1/2ton Tahoe or explorer. Ya, you might tow it, but GOD help you when the S%*T hits the fan...
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