Not wanting to hijack the post, but along the same lines. Has anybody taken the little filter on the side of the engine, and moved it to a remote location for easier changing? My separator/filter is at the rear of the coach, and is a snap to replace. Would like to move the other filter to the same location, but would need some kind of adapter to place where the original CAT filter is and allow a fuel line to be connected. Any ideas?
BattChief wrote: Not wanting to hijack the post, but along the same lines. Has anybody taken the little filter on the side of the engine, and moved it to a remote location for easier changing? My separator/filter is at the rear of the coach, and is a snap to replace. Would like to move the other filter to the same location, but would need some kind of adapter to place where the original CAT filter is and allow a fuel line to be connected. Any ideas?
No Cat motor in my rig...but BOTH of my fuel filters are located in a small side compartment. It CANT be any sort of a MAJOR "plumbing" change
2000 Country Coach Allure; Cummins ISC 330 HP; 71/2 - 8 MPG regardless
2002 Jeep Liberty
I agree with 3huskies! If the primary filter clogs up, what good is the secondary filter for? It just does not make sense to me or maybe there is more to it, then two filters on the same fuel line. If that first filter clogs up, it will shut the engine down.
Now the only advantage I can see with two filters is the engine will burn cleaner fuel, but as far as to helping to keep the fuel flowing it just does not make any sense.
2002 Gulf Stream Scenic Cruiser
330 HP Caterpillar
3000 Allison Transmission
Neway Freightliner chassis
2005 Honda Pilot EXL 4WD
Aventa III
FMCA member
First Caterpillar sells engines speced as the customer requests. Many of their end users supply their own fuel filts/fuel systems. As long as the fuel arriving at the engine meets Cat specs of "filtered to 2 microns with water removed" they are not involved in how that happens.
Freightliner speced many of the engines from Cat with no filter and Freightliner choose the filter system. IMO, their choice of a single 2 micron fuel filter with no primer pump was a poor one. As to whether this was a Freightliner decision, or a decision by the coach makers to save a few dollars, I have no information (and little interest). The FACT is that two filters-- one course with water separator and one fine AND WITH PRIMER PUMP is a MUCH better system than a single fine filter/water separator.
The physical location of the filters is up to you. As long as the following routing is followed, they can be mounted anywhere. Mine are both side by side in a side compartment away from the engine. I could be wearing a suit (as long as Dianne did not find out) and change both without getting dirty.
As described in the first post, fuel comes from the tank, through the first (primary) fuel filter/water separator (10 micron), then through the fuel pump/lift pump, then through the second (secondary) fuel filter (2 micron) and then to the engine head where it goes eventually to the injectors.
There are two main advantages to this setup-- first the filtering duty is shared by two filters. By having a 10 micron element before 2 micron element, larger particles that would quickly clog up a 2 micron element are removed by the first filter. The other advantage is that with a primer pump (on the secondary fuel filter) you can install both filters dry and quickly prime them up with the hand pump. That way it is much cleaner and you are not ASSUMING that there are no particles larger than 2 micron in the fuel you would have used to prime the filter(s).
That way it is much cleaner and you are not ASSUMING that there are no particles larger than 2 micron in the fuel you would have used to prime the filter(s).
Brett: A question. In the REAL WORLD ( NOT in "theory") is using the fuel from the filters ( old filters) to fill and install with the NEW filters...the "assumed" .."Kiss of death" as some claim? I mean we arent talking about running say 100 gallons of totally unfiltered fuel thru the motor...just the amount it takes to fill up the new installed filters..and thats ?? 2-3 quarts..( or less maybe??)
2 microns is MIGHTY TINY !! and yes..most certainly running "junky fuel" all the time is going to wear on parts and clog up items...but JUST the amount of fuel it takes to prime??? I look at it more like .."oil changes every 15K miles"...and I happen to run over to say 17K miles...sort of thing
Well, I guess you could say that two oil filters would be better than one also, but how far do you want to take it? I have almost 20,000 miles on my mh with the one fuel filter setup, and so do many others on the road, so I would have to say that it's working for me. Maybe we should start a post to see how many people have or are having a problem with it. If you change your filters and do your maintenance when your supposed too, the engine will out live all of us. If you like the 2 filter setup, do it, but IMHO it's a waste of money.
Here is a quote from a Cat rep who monitors the Yahoo Cat group in response to someone who purchased bad fuel. Take it for what it's worth.
"I understand your aggravation of being stranded on the
roadside, and your concerns that your coach was
equipped with only a water separator / fuel filter
assembly without a hand primer pump. Caterpillar sells
and ships engines as specified by our OEMs. In your
case the engine was ordered without an engine mounted
secondary fuel filter or a hand primer pump.
The clogged fuel filter that stranded you was a
result of the filter doing its job and not a failure
of the filtration system; the root cause of your
failure was the debris that contaminated the filter.
Caterpillar cannot be responsible for the quality of
fuel purchased. There are thousands of motor coaches
on the road running with only the primary water
separator / fuel filter assembly without any adverse
problems.
I unfortunately cannot participate in your fuel filter
repair and retrofit."
I have been following this on the CAT owners group and have asked many of the questions that have been asked here.
I'll ask one question that was not answered there here. How wide spread is the problem with clogged fuel filters. It doesn't matter if it's CAT or Cummings. I would think that when a certain size filter is installed by the manufacture they would have taken into account how much that size filter is capable of trapping before it will become clogged. Then base the change intervals to ensure if filters are changed at the recommended intervals the operator will not experience a trip stopping clogged filter.
It doesn't matter whether you have one or five filters if the first one in line becomes clogged and doesn't have a bypass you are dead on the side of the road.
The big advantage of doing what Brent posted is having the ability of changing the filter on the road and prime the system with the newly installed primer pump that is not installed on most single filter applications.
Jim and Linda
USAF Retired
2000 HR Endeaver
Toad 99 Grand Cherrokee
In the trailer Me 06 Ultra Classic SE Her 03 Softtail
Guard Dog "Smokey" Black German Shephard
There is a good possibility that taking good clean diesel and filling one or both fuel filters will not introduce a particle large enough to clog an injector, BUT IS THERE A REASON YOU WANT TO TAKE ANY RISK OF THIS HAPPENING?
And absolutely, if you only get clean diesel (nice theory, but not very realistic), a single 2 micron filter with no primer pump will be fine (but you still may have a problem priming it when you change it).
No one, not I and certainly not Caterpillar is saying you must have two filters. But the reasons to spend the approximately $150. are well covered in both my posts. If you are comfortable with a single 2 micron filter and no means of priming fine. I just want to offer an alternative to the many who have clogged the single filter system and been unable to easily prime the new filter.
The only MUST in all this is to use a 2 micron filter-- as the only or as the final filter. If the filter element you use is larger than that, it does NOT MEET CATERPILLAR'S SPECS FOR FUEL FILTERS. Racor and possibly others DO make 2 micron filter elements. But do NOT expect most parts counter guys to be able to go into a long dissertation on the micron rating of various filter elements. It is YOUR job to verify that you filter to 2 microns or buy the Caterpillar filter (which I do even on my 13 year old engine) because we KNOW it is a 2 micron filter element.
There is a good possibility that taking good clean diesel and filling one or both fuel filters will not introduce a particle large enough to clog an injector, BUT IS THERE A REASON YOU WANT TO TAKE ANY RISK OF THIS HAPPENING?
And absolutely, if you only get clean diesel (nice theory, but not very realistic), a single 2 micron filter with no primer pump will be fine (but you still may have a problem priming it when you change it).
No one, not I and certainly not Caterpillar is saying you must have two filters. But the reasons to spend the approximately $150. are well covered in both my posts. If you are comfortable with a single 2 micron filter and no means of priming fine. I just want to offer an alternative to the many who have clogged the single filter system and been unable to easily prime the new filter.
The only MUST in all this is to use a 2 micron filter-- as the only or as the final filter. If the filter element you use is larger than that, it does NOT MEET CATERPILLAR'S SPECS FOR FUEL FILTERS. Racor and possibly others DO make 2 micron filter elements. But do NOT expect most parts counter guys to be able to go into a long dissertation on the micron rating of various filter elements. It is YOUR job to verify that you filter to 2 microns or buy the Caterpillar filter (which I do even on my 13 year old engine) because we KNOW it is a 2 micron filter element.
Only reason I could thnk of is if I couldnt get primed and was swapping them out on the road...during a trip, etc..
Cummins engine here and I "assume"..??...that mine pumps via an electric pump??? Install filters empty and turn the key on and "something"...starts clicking...when it stops I turn the key to start and thats it..????
I ONLY buy Fleetguard filters that are specified for my setup..and agree with you 100%. If an engine came with "CAT ABC123" filter..I would use NOTHING ELSE!
I dont swallow the "just the same as" sort of thing.
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