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Topic: Onan 7.5 diesel genset oil filter .... Fram?

Posted By: Scatback on 06/08/05 10:28am

I just changed the oil and filter on my Onan 7.5 diesel genset and was amazed how much Onan thinks of their oil filters....like $14. I suspect Fram manufacturers Onan filters. Does anyone on this great forum know what the Fram number may be for this filter?


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Posted By: mpfireman on 06/08/05 10:36am

If you look through MANY posts, most people stay away from the FRAM filters. I would spend those extra bucks and be safe.
Ken


1998.5 Dodge Ram Quad Cab Cummins
1998 Sunnybrook 27RKFS Fiver


Posted By: WeBrzn2 on 06/08/05 10:40am

I don't know the filter part number, but with the Onan number you can use the cross-reference in the Fram or other filter manufacturers book to find a suitable replacement. I also find it interesting how proud they are of their filters, plus the fact that the owners manual does NOT provide the filter part number anywhere (at least it is not in my owners manual).

I had one with a small pin hole, made one heck of a mess. Found it on a Sunday, looked all thru the owners manual trying to find the part number for the filter so I could go buy a replacement at an open parts store prior to removing the old one. Wouldn't you know, the number is nowhere to be found, had to remove the old one to get the number off of it. Seems that for $14 for a filter, they should at least be verified prior to sale!


2004 Alpine Avalanche DP
2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee toad
2005 Mini Cooper S
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Posted By: Scatback on 06/08/05 10:46am

Found it! An internet search on the Fram web site has it cross-referenced as Fram model PH3593A. Regarding the price you pay determines the quality of the product, it ain't necessarily so.


Posted By: Kenneth on 06/08/05 10:52am

Fram filter internals

Another Fram

Both show holes through the filter media. You can buy much better filters for just a couple of dollars more...Purolator, WIX, NAPA-Gold, Baldwin, Hastings.


Ken


I'm free of prostate cancer for 5 years now.
All men over age 50 should get an annual PSA blood test. Mine had a low reading, but the yearly jump was significant. The biopsy showed cancer just entering the aggressive stage. Dr. Hackenslash removed it.



Posted By: gswcgi on 06/08/05 11:51am

Maybe someone can verify this: It is my understanding that during the warranty period on an Onan (Diesel or Gas)that Onan will not honor the warranty if you use another brand of filter other than Onan. I know that was true a few years ago on a gas 4kw Onan I had. I have a quiet diesel Onan now and am not sure if that is still the case while under warranty.


'03 Safari, DP, 36" Nissan 4X4 toad


Posted By: WeBrzn2 on 06/08/05 12:03pm

If Onan will not honor the warranty unless you use their filters, then based on the Magnusen Moss Warranty Act, they must provide the filters at no charge. I have yet to find a manufacturer that mandates a certain brand of replacement parts, rather, they mandate a specification. If Onan mandates a spec and no one else makes a filter that meets it, then they are off the hook for having to provide free filters.

I have not researched the Onan filter situation thoroughly enough to determine what they require. Generally, they are very carefull on how they word the requirement. It will useually state something like "to ensure warranty coverage, use only genuine xxx parts" In this case, they are not mandating a certain brand of part per se, but most of us will read into this statement that we must use that brand of parts to maintain our warranty when in fact, they are not saying "if you don't use genuine xxx parts, the warranty will be void". Also, the MM warranty Act requires that the company prove that the after market part caused the failure that they are denying coverage for. For example, Onan or any other company, cannot deny coverage for the stator on the generator if you used a Fram (I prefer better also) filter for the engine crankcase since there is no way the filter could cause a stator failure.


Posted By: w4phj on 06/08/05 01:12pm

Crossed my Onan 7.5 to Napa FIL 1064


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Posted By: M Payne S/C on 06/08/05 01:26pm

If you ever cut a Fram open, you would not use it!


Mike & Sarah Payne
2000 Kountry Star DP


Posted By: Troubleshooter on 06/08/05 04:11pm

Ditto w4phj's posting.
NAPA Gold 1064 filter, or WIX 51064.
I use Rotella 15W40 (3qts w/filter) in our Onan 7.5Kw Quite Diesel

Only One Old Fellow's Opinion


Bill
2002 Discovery 3126E CAT
2004 Saturn VUE
Mountain Master Tow Brake



Posted By: Sully2 on 06/08/05 04:14pm

M Payne S/C wrote:

If you ever cut a Fram open, you would not use it!

WRONGO! Ive used Fram filters for over 35 years..and NEVER had any sort of engines problems whatsoever


2000 Country Coach Allure; Cummins ISC 330 HP; 71/2 - 8 MPG regardless
2002 Jeep Liberty



Posted By: st687 on 06/08/05 04:20pm

Most people do not have the time or MONEY to fight Cummins over a warranty problem, I have a friend that was using an of brand filter on his Onan when the crank took a dump under warranty, Cummins determined that the filter media came apart and caused oil starvation, there for they would not pay for the repairs, for what we pay for our rolling homes it is cheap insurance to use the parts that are desinged for them.


Doris &Bill
97 U270 Foretravel
08 Saturn Vue 3.6L
University of Parris Island March 1966
Semper Fi.


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/08/05 04:20pm

Scatback wrote:

I just changed the oil and filter on my Onan 7.5 diesel genset and was amazed how much Onan thinks of their oil filters....like $14. I suspect Fram manufacturers Onan filters. Does anyone on this great forum know what the Fram number may be for this filter?

Fram got a BAD rap back in the early 90's because of a bunch of absolutely ROTTEN filters..MADE IN THE FAR EAST..and sold under Frams name to AU and other countrys in the far east.

I wont say Fram is the BEST filter you can buy..not by a long shot...bit its every bit as good as any other general consumer product selling for the same $$ and even a little more. From my own erperience..Id run a Fram with NO guts in it before Id install a WIX filter!!!

Unless your running that genset 24/7...you dont change filters very often..so dont scrimp on them..and the filters you buy from Onan..and from Fleetguard..arent really in the same "class" as a Wally World Fram..or Purolator..etc..etc. Buy a good one and run it for the proper amount of hrs..which is usually a pretty good time frame.


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/08/05 04:21pm

st687 wrote:

Most people do not have the time or MONEY to fight Cummins over a warranty problem, I have a friend that was using an of brand filter on his Onan when the crank took a dump under warranty, Cummins determined that the filter media came apart and caused oil starvation, there for they would not pay for the repairs, for what we pay for our rolling homes it is cheap insurance to use the parts that are desinged for them.

Bill: Very very true!!


Posted By: gunny357 on 06/08/05 04:38pm

Fram would definitley not be my first choice for a filter.

WIX is probably your best bang for the buck and WIX make the filters for NAPA and a lot of others.

Onan cannot deny you warranty for using someone else's filters and/or oil. Magnuson-Ross act I beleive. Cummins/Onan would probably be glad to sell you their brand of air to run the machine on if they thought they could get away with it.

Just keep records of what you did and when and you should be just fine. By the way, most of the Onan failures are electriclaly related, no way has any connectionwith an oil filter. In other words, the voltage regulator dies, they cannot deny warranty cause you used someoen else's oil, fuel, air or any other part.

By the way, when I worked for Cummins a truck came in with an engine failure. A small piece of metal plugged a cooling jet preventing theproper oil spray to the under side of the piston. Cummoins analyzed the metal particle, not something they used,came from an oil filter. Filter manufacturer stepped up and paid for the new engine.


Posted By: gunny357 on 06/08/05 06:06pm

By the way, Cummins/Onan buys filters in such a quantity that they probably get them around $2.00 each, package them and then sell them for $14.00. They don't mark parts up, they gouge folks like you and me.

Case in point. Needed an electronic circuit device for a Cummins generator. Knew that Cummins didn't make it and knew where they got them. Called a friend who worked there and asked for a part number cross, price and avalibility. Cost was $82.00 but he could not sell to me, was a Cummins proprietary part. Cummins' asking price? $962.00. That's gouging folks. Ended up going with an aftermarket device that cost $285.00 and was much better (even made in Germany).

Sully, cut open a Fram and then a WIX, then use what suits you.


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/08/05 07:08pm

gunny357 wrote:


Sully, cut open a Fram and then a WIX, then use what suits you.


How can I cut a Wix filter open? I wouldnt take one if it was given to me..let alone buy one! I never said Fram was the best!! I said WIX was pure hype and JUNK!


Posted By: mrwebman on 06/08/05 09:22pm

Sully2 wrote:

How can I cut a Wix filter open? I wouldn't take one if it was given to me..let alone buy one! I never said Fram was the best!! I said WIX was pure hype and JUNK!

You don't have to cut it open - it's been done for you in this article about oil filters: CLICK HERE FOR ARTICLE

Most people that have researched this subject will agree that Fram filters are and always have been junk. Spend a couple dollars more and get a better filter or just don't bother changing your oil.

NAPA has the filter at reasonable cost for this genset.

Cheers,
Dennis


'93 Gulf Stream Tourmaster
Jeep Overland toad



Posted By: DannyLeininger on 06/09/05 04:37am

My local NAPA dealer has a very interesting display of two oil filters that are cut open; a NAPA Gold vs Fram. The difference in the amount of filter material between the two was very clear and the NAPA Gold was the clear winner.

I also have a friend who had a fleet of vans. He was using oil filters other than the engine manufacturers brand. The filter material came apart and he lost an engine. Consequently he spent the next 9 months fighting with the engine and filter manufacturers over who would pay for the repairs. After 9 months of negotiations the two companies decided to split the cost of the engine repairs. My friend had to absorb the cost of not having his van for 9 months. Today he ONLY runs the recommended brand of filters in all his vehicles while under warrantee...I personally follow his recommendations.

The moral of the above event is this...while under warrantee if you use the manufacturers filters, there is NO question about the filters. If a filter goes bad, its covered! Once out of warrantee use whatever you want.

Personally, I would still avoid a Fram.


Danny Leininger
2013 Newmar Essex 4547
500 HP Cummins ISX on a Spartan K2 Chassis
2010 Explorer Eddie Bauer 4x4, nice
Good Sams, FMCA, Newmar Kountry Klub, AARP....


Posted By: M Payne S/C on 06/09/05 06:06am

Sully, a friend has lost 2 race engines to Fram. He is not the only one to lose engines like this. If you cut them open you will see why. The engine in the car now started with a Fram and oil pressure got lower and lower the longer it ran. I told him to change the filter to something other than Fram and the oil pressure went back up. This has caused many a engine to go down. I know many reps for filter co. and the way they sell there filters is to cut open there filter and Fram. I have had the same thing happen with Fram before I looked at how they are made.


Posted By: M Payne S/C on 06/09/05 06:14am

By the way Sully these engines cost $18,000 each. He is now on his 3rd engine this year. My engine is 3 years old but no Fram.


Posted By: nantra on 06/09/05 06:49am

I have used FRAM filters for a long time and I have not had any engine failures due to malfunctioning of a FRAM Filter. I haave had cars with over 200,000 miles on them NO Problem. I also think that if you cut open other types of filters, you probally would find fault with them also.


John and Nancy Bradley
87 Bounder 34'(ANGEL)


Posted By: Scatback on 06/10/05 01:18pm

Geeeez...I never knew there were such strong feelings about oil filters! I do appreciate all the good info. I did not install a Fram filter, but used the Onan. It would be interesting to know who makes oil filters for Onan, I am sure Onan doesn't have an oil filter manufacturering facility just for the few they sell.


Posted By: brobox on 06/10/05 02:13pm

Scatback wrote:

Geeeez...I never knew there were such strong feelings about oil filters! I do appreciate all the good info. I did not install a Fram filter, but used the Onan. It would be interesting to know who makes oil filters for Onan, I am sure Onan doesn't have an oil filter manufacturering facility just for the few they sell.


It was explained to me from the Onan Rep at a Travel Supreme Rally that the 7.5 Onan engines and filters we made by Izuzu (sp) for Cummins


Chuck
02 Travel Supreme, 2 street side slides
09 Toyota Tacoma 2WD



Posted By: Sully2 on 06/10/05 02:25pm

M Payne S/C wrote:

By the way Sully these engines cost $18,000 each. He is now on his 3rd engine this year. My engine is 3 years old but no Fram.

Where did you see me say that Fram was the BEST filter there is? I DIDNT. I said that Fram filters are a "consumer grade product" and arent any worse than any other comsumer grade oil filter..and IMHO..THEY ARENT.

If your "buddie" was DUMB ENOUGH to slap a Fram on an $18,000 race engine..again..IMHO..he got what he deserved! I wouldnt..and I didnt!

I have no idea how many $$ my Cummins would costs..??...But I used the exact same filter that the factory specified!

Now..as far as reading the thread that was linked..and the letter from the "Fram Engineer"...thats pure hogwash to boot. I did notice..that "name withheld by request" at the bottom...I mean DONT MAKE ME LAUGH!!
Who wrote that letter?? ANYONE could have typed it up. It holds "point ZIP credence".

If some of you dont wish to buy / use Fram filters...its no skin off my noce at all..Fine..then dont. Just put truth where truth should be is all Im saying. They are NO BETTER nor NO WORSE than any other consumer grade oil filter. If someoen had the ability to take ALL "junk " oil filters off the market...90% of them would be gone!


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/10/05 02:27pm

Scatback wrote:

Geeeez...I never knew there were such strong feelings about oil filters! I do appreciate all the good info. I did not install a Fram filter, but used the Onan. It would be interesting to know who makes oil filters for Onan, I am sure Onan doesn't have an oil filter manufacturering facility just for the few they sell.


?? Dont know who makes them for ONAN..but CUMMINS ( Cummins / Onan) makes their own oil and other filters. Im sure that filter fits MORE than JUST an Onan genset..for sure.


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/10/05 02:28pm

nantra wrote:

I have used FRAM filters for a long time and I have not had any engine failures due to malfunctioning of a FRAM Filter. I haave had cars with over 200,000 miles on them NO Problem. I also think that if you cut open other types of filters, you probally would find fault with them also.

Im positive of that FACT!..Yepper!


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/10/05 02:31pm

M Payne S/C wrote:

The engine in the car now started with a Fram and oil pressure got lower and lower the longer it ran. I told him to change the filter to something other than Fram and the oil pressure went back up. This has caused many a engine to go down. I know many reps for filter co. and the way they sell there filters is to cut open there filter and Fram. I have had the same thing happen with Fram before I looked at how they are made.


Ive experienced NO LOSS of OIL PRESSURE..AT ALL...and have had no loss of engine hardware since 1966 when I started driving and USING Fram oil and air filters! Time tells all!


Posted By: RayChez on 06/10/05 02:40pm

webrzn2 is correct about Magnusen Moss warranty Act. You can put any filter that cross reference. I bought mine at Napa.
But on my Onan genset 7500 right where you have the switch to start it from the out side of the coach, it has a number under oil filter 184-5409, I am not sure if that is the oil filter number or what? What I done is I just took my oil filter to Napa and they said it was a Kabota engine, and they just matched the filter.
I have used Fram filters on all my automobiles and have never had an engine fail because of the filter. Fram makes a good filter. Most people that are not mechanically inclined seem to think that they have to have a certain brand just because that is what come on it originally. WRONG!


2002 Gulf Stream Scenic Cruiser
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Posted By: Old Soldier 1 on 06/11/05 05:26am

Been using Fram for years. No problems to date. However, many folks in the racing business will NOT use Fram.

Napa filters are WIX. Good filter. Most NAPA stores will willingly cross your numbers over. I just changed my Onan oil and filter. The Onan part number was printed on the filter.


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The older I get, the better I used to be.



Posted By: B's Bunch on 06/11/05 08:39am

Well I'll give my two cents worth on this. I service and sell a brand of generator that we are familiar with. I just ordered 20 oil filters from the factory to service my customers generators. These have two year warrantys on them and I suggest to my customers to use the manufactors filter at least untill the warranty runs out just in case of any problems they can not question the filter. When I recieved the bill for these filters they had gone up to 17.00 ea. Used to cost me 8.00 ea. I called to inquire and was told that they had changed filters to a more stringent filter because they now warrant two years unlimited hours. Guess what . When installing the filters I began to notice that there was writing under the black paint for these filters. When I came home out came the paint thinner and NAPA is what I found. At least in my opinion they chose a decent filter to rip me off with. NAPA sells these for 12.00 ea. Larry


Larry,Brenda,Travis,Jarred & MEME the Boston Terror TheBunch 2011 American Coach Revolution 42T The Double Wide


Posted By: RayChez on 06/11/05 08:53am

B'Bunch, Napa does sell a good filter in Wix. Fact the matter, Wix filters was the only filter endorsed by NASCAR. I changed my air filter on my coach from Farr to Wix. After reading about how Wix filters are made and how much more folds it has over other filters, it convinced me that they were a better filter then Farr. Most Onan generator motors are made by Kabota. Last weekend when I was at Lake Mohave I run my generator almost 24 hours a day for three days and it run flawlessly.


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/11/05 08:57am

B's Bunch wrote:

Well I'll give my two cents worth on this. I service and sell a brand of generator that we are familiar with.


And what brand of genset might that be???????? Without all the facts..the post MAY BE 100% fictious??

Ever stop by Custom Tackle Supply out on 41A? I buy rod building parts off of Bob.


Posted By: B's Bunch on 06/11/05 07:52pm

Sully2 I pretty much tell it like it is. Just like you. Hint there are only two name brands. I sell one of them. The filter is black. Bob is still there. Larry


Posted By: inharmswayus on 06/11/05 11:15pm

Run AMSOIL synthetic or Redline synthetic in engines and generators.
I run Amsoil 15-40 in engine and generator. Detroit Diesel is recommending Amsoil and Redline based on released analysis of oils.
Wix appears to be superior filters.


2005 Marathon Coach, Acura MDX toad, Roadmaster tow bar and brake syst. Dish TV.


Posted By: moisheh on 06/12/05 06:14am

I was wondering how long we would have to wait before the Amsoil hucksters crawled out from under their bridges. Inharmsway: Just where can we verify your statement about Detroit recommending Amsoil? More hype!!


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/12/05 06:16am

B's Bunch wrote:

Sully2 I pretty much tell it like it is. Just like you. Hint there are only two name brands. I sell one of them. The filter is black. Bob is still there. Larry

Okie doke!..I got ya...


Posted By: Sully2 on 06/12/05 06:17am

inharmswayus wrote:

Run AMSOIL synthetic or Redline synthetic in engines and generators.
I run Amsoil 15-40 in engine and generator. Detroit Diesel is recommending Amsoil and Redline based on released analysis of oils.
Wix appears to be superior filters.


......


Posted By: moisheh on 06/12/05 06:40am

Inharmsaway: From the 30 page document on the Detroit Diesel website:

Detroit Diesel does NOT maintain a lits of brand name approved oils.

I looked at the whole 30 pages and they do not mention any brand names. They do however in a seperate document refer to Delvac. Apparently they have been working with Delvac to develop oils for their product. No legitimate mfr. would ever recommend Amsoil and you should not post outright lies! Some Amsoil products may meet a spec and will be on a list of approved products as will 100,s of other oils. This is not a recommendation!


Posted By: inharmswayus on 06/12/05 04:24pm

moisheh wrote:

I was wondering how long we would have to wait before the Amsoil hucksters crawled out from under their bridges. Inharmsway: Just where can we verify your statement about Detroit recommending Amsoil? More hype!!


Sorry, but I do not reply to attack dog posters. This will be my last reply to such. If your only knowledge of Detroit Diesel is a website, then you should post concerning something else. Go away and bark elswhere, your distubing a good neighborhood.


Posted By: Bago Mike on 06/12/05 04:33pm

M Payne S/C wrote:

If you ever cut a Fram open, you would not use it!


I cut a Fram open, and now, no one can use it.


We started out with nothing, and we still have most of it left
Bago Mike & ">Bago Judi, taking our Grand Tour (our third Bago)
Second Bago
First Bago click on the bagos Here Fishy, Fishy


Posted By: davel1942 on 06/12/05 08:11pm

I don't know how far back you guys go, but in the 60's and 70's there was an oil filter that allowed you to use toilet paper. That's right, just stuff a roll of toilet paper in and screw it on. Some people swore by them. Just as so many are blasting Fram. If it was such a bad product it would be bye-bye like the toilet paper. The filter has one purpose, catch the bad stuff. Fram does that. Some filters use bells and whistles to grab your attention. Keep it simple. Change your oil regularly.
PS Onan does not make their filters, Neither do most engine manufacturers but they outsource them to the lowest bidder and have their name imprinted on them.
Think of that the next time you fly in an airplane. All the parts were manufactured by the lowest bidder.


You keep do'in what yo're do'in
You keep gettin what you got! States in '05



Posted By: Dirtman on 07/10/05 06:04pm

Dave,
There is a BIG difference between RV parts and Airplane parts. If you don't believe it, just TRY and get a part approved for an airplane. Not like an RV, where, if it "fits", it's OK.
Aircraft parts go through more to be APPROVED for installation than you would EVER believe.
The only thing about an airplane ride that scares me is the DRIVE TO THE AIRPORT, and I've been augering around the skies for 35 or so years and feel much safer in an airplane than in a car with todays traffic.
Sorry, but I just didn't care for your comparison.


Dirtman
2003 Newmar "D"Star 4050
Freightliner(Neway IFS) 330HP Cat
22'Haulmark V nose hauler
2004 Chev Silverado Z-71, 4X4 toad
BrakeBuddy



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