Right off I want to say I couldn't have done this w/o the input of all the great minds here. Thanks to all who helped.
Main goals (in no particular order):
- leave original TC system in tact as much as possible
- increase "quiet" time (generator off)
- min 3000 watts of inverted power (with room for more if needed)
- multiple (easy) methods of charging
- allow original electrical system to function standalone if needed
- ability to upgrade one aspect of the system with little or no changes to another
Simple things first - replaced the original useless house batteries with (2) #27 Lifelines. That's all that was done to the original/onboard TC electrical system. This needed to be done anyway.
Basically, I added a 24v battery bank (4 - 6v Lifelines) and hooked them up to a MultiPlus inverter/charger (with battery monitor, battery temperature sensing for proper charging, MultiPlus control panel - allows you to control the AC amperage draw on the incoming line). This is a 30A system (all wiring, surge protection, inverted power, and main breakers). Both 30A breakers include a reverse-polarity indicating light so I can find out if I should unplug my incoming power before I begin using it.
If I need more quiet time I can add 4 more batteries. If I need more power than 3000 watts (truthfully I doubt I ever will) I can interconnect another MultiPlus with no other changes necessary (you can parallel connect numerous MultiPlus if you want to).
- Incomming MarinCo connector (with adapters) will allow up to 30A incoming, with adapters for standard 15A/30A shore connectors.
- This goes into a SurgeGuard protector
- Then into a 30A BlueSea main breaker before feeding into the MultiPlus (provides AC as well as up to 70A@24v DC charging - automatically adjusts to whatever AC is comming in - extra (non-used) AC goes to charging; if not enough AC coming in, inverts whatever is needed from the battery bank
- Out of the MultiPlus to a 30A BlueSea breaker panel with 3 circuits (30A to original 30A TC power cord, 20A to two new GFCI outlets in TC, 20A to two new GFC outlets in basement and outside of TC)
To interconnect this to the existing TC electrical system was easy - just used a 30A plug in the electrical cord box. So, the TC is always plugged into this power source (fall back plan - just unplug and plug cord into a generator or shore power if ever needed - just like before).
For charging, three sources are available (and all go through the 30A MarinCo motormount/inlet):
- Shore power
- Honda 2000i
- AC from sinewave inverter in truck (rather than converting 12v to 24v DC). This allows smaller wire to run between the truck and the TC, with 1000 watts of power. The inverter in the truck is useful for other things as well - nice bonus - and about the same price as adding various other solutions (especially due to the cost savings of running thinner wire @120v).
Using the MultiPlus control panel, you can actually dial the amount of AC you want to let into it. So, if the shore power is limited (or generator power or truck inverter) due to other things on the same circuit, I can dial the amount of AC draw down to say 5 amps (or anything between 2-30A). 30A shore power circuit available? Just ask for 25A or so. Using a loooooong extension cord? dial to < 10A or whatever would be safe for the cord length/gauge wire.
You may have noticed I didn't list a switchover device - that's because there isn't one. There is just one power inlet. I just plug into it with whatever source of power I am using. Simple.
Now I can operate more "normally" as if I was always plugged into shore power. I don't have to be so concerned about battery levels. I can turn on anything at any time (microwave, audio/video/computer, electrical blanket, etc.) w/o needing the generator running. The true test will come in a few months when I start to use the portable air conditioner. If I can't get throught the night with it, then I'll just add batteries (with no other changes necessary).
I don't have solar panels yet - but that will be my next addition if I feel it's needed and worth the cost. I suppose even one large panel would be beneficial.
So, since I'm not an electrian, nor very mechanically inclined (ask most people that know me), what did I miss? What did I overlook? What else would you have done? Any concerns? By trying to keep it simple, did I skip something important?
Again, thanks to all who helped on this. I had various posts on one aspect or another of this, rather than the whole project. I also gleamed much info from other's posts on similar projects.
* This post was
edited 08/18/06 01:48pm by gsf1000 *
2005 Ford F-350 4x4 DRW, PSD & 6spd Manual; AirLift and Rancho 9000 (dash mounted controls for both); TorkLift Tie-Downs, FastGuns, and SuperHitch w/48" ext; BedRug
2005 Okanagan 116ULT (lovin' it)
Sounds like a very nice system. I am embarking on an electrical upgrade in my canper. I hope it comes out as good as yours apparently did. I looked closely at the Multiplus and thought it was a very nice unit but ultimately I decided on the Prosine 2000 because of its more configurable battery charger and because I didn't think that the AC management features of the Multiplus would be of that much benefit to me. One caution, if you are charging the Lifelines that replaced the original batteries with the original charger, make sure that it is a three stage charger and has the correct voltages.
RoyC: Thanks for the suggestion on the three stage charger for the 12v Lifelines. Actually, I'm using the Charge Wizard add-on for the converter. If this isn't good enough I'll probably just purchase a separate 4-stage battery charger for the 2-12v batts. It would be a low amp charger as I'm in no rush to charge it up due to the other electrical system feeding it. I look forward to hearing how your upgrade goes.
Reddog1 & RoyC: BTW - thanks for the compliments, but I did have some help. I usually know what I want to accomplish, but need assistance in getting me there. Whenever I'm told "it can't or shouldn't be done" I always ask why not? I also often receive the "you're nutz" comments, but I usually agree with them. Besides, installing 280# of batteries in 2 battery boxes, then pushing it about 5' into the basement area was more than I could handle.
For charging, three sources are available (and all go through the 30A MarinCo motormount/inlet):
- Shore power
- Honda 2000i
- AC from sinewave inverter in truck (rather than converting 12v to 24v DC). This allows smaller wire to run between the truck and the TC, with 1000 watts of power. The inverter in the truck is useful for other things as well - nice bonus - and about the same price as adding various other solutions (especially due to the cost savings of running thinner wire @120v).
Sounds like a great setup and something I've toyed with doing as well. Is the 1000 Watt inverter in the truck a true sinewave inverter? What brand? I emailed Xantrex a while back and they told me the charger in my my Heart Interface Freedom 458 inverter/charger wouldn't work with a modified sinewave input.
jjinatx: Yes, it is a true sine wave. It seems that all of the sine wave inverter/chargers I've researched require true sine wave (not even modified) input.
The model I went with was a Samlex 1000 watt. I was going to go with their 600 watt unit, but felt that the extra wattage would come in handy either for quicker charging of the TC, for other accessories in the truck, or for when doing both. Also, the 1000 watt model included GFCI outlets, the 600 watt unit didn't.
I'll keep you posted on how things go, but so far it's great to not (well, not regularly) worry about available power or plan things around when I can run a generator. I really like the idea of just "living normal".
It's funny - all the talk on the site about charging DC to DC and running combiners/isolators and very heavy cable (2/0 or 4/0 sometimes depending on the amperage you need and the length of the run) etc etc. One day a light bulb just went on in my head - why can't I just charge things like I usually do and just supply the TC with AC while going down the road? Less amperage down the line when running AC; the MultiPlus will still work with even voltage down to 95v AC. It's a win-win situation. The cost was very similar to what a battery combiner with all of the cabling/parts would have cost me. Plus, I get an extra interior/cab inverter out of the deal. Even the charging is better since it goes through the 4-stage MultiPlus rather than just the 12v charge wire.
Gsf wrote: t's funny - all the talk on the site about charging DC to DC and running combiners/isolators and very heavy cable (2/0 or 4/0 sometimes depending on the amperage you need and the length of the run) etc etc. One day a light bulb just went on in my head - why can't I just charge things like I usually do and just supply the TC with AC while going down the road? Less amperage down the line when running AC; the MultiPlus will still work with even voltage down to 95v AC. It's a win-win situation. The cost was very similar to what a battery combiner with all of the cabling/parts would have cost me. Plus, I get an extra interior/cab inverter out of the deal. Even the charging is better since it goes through the 4-stage MultiPlus rather than just the 12v charge wire.
Im really glad you pointed this out again as I didn't really zero in on it in your first post. This sounds like a great idea. I am uncomfortable chaging my AGM batteries with the truck alternator as it does not supply proper three stage (or even two stage) charging. I was actually thinking of not using my alternator to charge my house bats at all. If I go this route I will have a Hellroaring isolater to put up on ebay.
I do not use my truck to charge my Lifeline (100 amp) AGM. Perhaps in the future I might consider it.
The way I use my TC now, I could not benefit from it, nor could I justify the upgrade cost. When I leave home my batteries are charged. When I camp, I use shore power or the generator to charge. When I go home, I will charge at home. If I need to, I can charge, using my generator, while on the road.
Wayne; I have designed my system so that I could do just as you say (time will tell if it works as I plan) but if I could confidently use the alternator it would sometimes reduce my gen run time. I have started a thread on the Tech Issues forum to see what others think of this idea. I don't think I will do anything with it right now but maybe someday I will give it a try.
gsf1000 wrote: (On edit I realized a picture would have been worth 1000 words - or a few thousand - I'll see if I can produce a diagram if anyone's interested then replace most of this post with it)
I'm definitely interested in seeing a picture or a diagram, but don't replace any of your text with the image. Just post a new message with the picture so we can see what you did. Very interesting!
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