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Topic: Personal Property Taxes

Posted By: wombat56 on 07/22/06 04:46pm

This is my first post, I am also about ready to purchase my first RV A Fleetwood excursion in the 170k range, now i can swing the loan, but i live in Chesapeake, VA and have a business in Myrtle Beach SC and Chesapeake as well. I am sure some of you retired CPA's out there could help me on this issue. Chesapeake has a $4.08 per $100 in assesed value personal property tax. This is could kill the deal, as I just cannot see paying that kind of money as a tax. Does anyone have any input on Myrtle Beach Personal Property Tax or do you guys see this as a cost of RV'ing. Also is it better as business expense or personal. Free advise is always welcome. My CPA say business, as I can justify it. But these taxes have me puzzled. I thing the sales taxes are 5% va and 6% sc

Someone has had to deal with this issue before.

Thanks


Posted By: Robert McNabb on 07/22/06 05:19pm

wombat56 wrote:

This is my first post, I am also about ready to purchase my first RV A Fleetwood excursion in the 170k range, now i can swing the loan, but i live in Chesapeake, VA and have a business in Myrtle Beach SC and Chesapeake as well. I am sure some of you retired CPA's out there could help me on this issue. Chesapeake has a $4.08 per $100 in assesed value personal property tax. This is could kill the deal, as I just cannot see paying that kind of money as a tax. Does anyone have any input on Myrtle Beach Personal Property Tax or do you guys see this as a cost of RV'ing. Also is it better as business expense or personal. Free advise is always welcome. My CPA say business, as I can justify it. But these taxes have me puzzled. I thing the sales taxes are 5% va and 6% sc

Someone has had to deal with this issue before.

Thanks


I'll inject an added issue should you decide to go "business" ownership. The vehicle title would be "business" and so your loan would track with it being "business" and (I'm an insurance broker) then you'd need to insure it under your business. That would create more expense and, yes, it would be a "business expense".....or would it? IRS does look at those expenses and in a number of landmark cases through the years, has required the owner to pay for personal use....not unlike a business owned automobile. If the use is going to be personal use, this should be rehashed with your CPA.

By the way, never make the mistake of insuring a business owned vehicle under your Personal Auto policy....if there's ever a bad loss, and the business ownership is determined....(business owned autos are not eligible for Personal Auto policies)....need I say more?

The fact that you can flip this back and forth in your post makes it as easy for the IRS to do the same. The insurers want it laid out straight, and their premium charge is based upon full disclosure.


Bob & Annie in sunny San Diego


Posted By: Zman300 on 07/22/06 05:26pm

What about a Montana LLC like many on this board have done.


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Posted By: Joy on 07/22/06 05:31pm

To claim it as a business expense, you would have to justify its use in your business the majority of the time - either loaning it to customers, taking customers to business events, etc., Any personal use would then have to be billed to you personally by the business and you would have to show that you paid that or claimed it as income w/IRS. Gets complicated. Unless it is pretty clear cut, most of just eat the taxes as a cost of RVing.


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Posted By: wombat56 on 07/22/06 05:40pm

Thanks Robert, I have noticed the, the Montana LLC thread, and there were gray areas surrounding that issue as well, I dont know if anyone has gone to task with this IRS on it. I already deal with the same insurance issue on other vehicles, not on this size purchase however, but you input is welcome all the same. I just cannot see the justification of those personal property taxes in VA.


Posted By: wombat56 on 07/22/06 05:43pm

I can justify 75% business use, in fact Ocean lakes campground is actually a customer, but i do think the quality of life in a nice Class A outweighs a hotel room any day.

I do appreciate the feedback


Posted By: Zman300 on 07/22/06 05:47pm

wombat56 wrote:

Thanks Robert, I have noticed the, the Montana LLC thread, and there were gray areas surrounding that issue as well, I dont know if anyone has gone to task with this IRS on it. I already deal with the same insurance issue on other vehicles, not on this size purchase however, but you input is welcome all the same. I just cannot see the justification of those personal property taxes in VA.


Hey your talking bout the Gov't they don't need justification.


Posted By: wombat56 on 07/22/06 05:53pm

Zman, could not agree more, I am surprised that the AARP loby has not done something about Property Taxes on RV's. Us baby boomers will have to do something about that issue.


Posted By: -Gramps- on 07/22/06 06:07pm

I own a sole proprietor business in Portsmouth. I found it easier to just pay the taxes on my Bounder instead of finding a way to skirt them such as a Montana LLC. This is where I live and work and as long as I can park it in my front yard, I will continue to pay the taxes on it. Too bad we don't have the same no tax status as boat owners. On occasion I take the rig to job sites and write that trip off.


___________________________________________
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06 Saturn Vue toad, SMI Breaking sys,Blue Ox tow bar.
My FMCA Blog



Posted By: wombat56 on 07/22/06 06:25pm

Gramps, as you are virtually in my back yard, do they assess your rv low or high. I am looking at 7k a year in property tax on a 170k purchase. Real estate is 3 quarters cheaper. Why is the rate so high on RV's


Posted By: SunflyerA on 07/22/06 06:44pm

wombat56 wrote:

This is my first post, I am also about ready to purchase my first RV A Fleetwood excursion in the 170k range, now i can swing the loan, but i live in Chesapeake, VA and have a business in Myrtle Beach SC and Chesapeake as well. I am sure some of you retired CPA's out there could help me on this issue. Chesapeake has a $4.08 per $100 in assesed value personal property tax. This is could kill the deal, as I just cannot see paying that kind of money as a tax. Does anyone have any input on Myrtle Beach Personal Property Tax or do you guys see this as a cost of RV'ing. Also is it better as business expense or personal. Free advise is always welcome. My CPA say business, as I can justify it. But these taxes have me puzzled. I thing the sales taxes are 5% va and 6% sc

Someone has had to deal with this issue before.

Thanks


I can't help you on the taxes but 170K on an Excursion is a bit high....should be looking more in the mid 150's.






Posted By: -Gramps- on 07/22/06 06:57pm

The rate for an RV in Portsmouth is 1.50 per 100. For a car (such as my new Vue) it is 5.00 per 100. Chesapeake seems quite high. Rate VS assessment..it's all relative isn't it? My Bounder assessment is 16000 less than I paid for it. I bought it one year old in Feb of 05, not sure how much difference that made but I am sure it would have been a lot higher new.

* This post was edited 07/22/06 07:05pm by -Gramps- *


Posted By: Williamh on 07/22/06 07:08pm

ere in York County, the personal property tax rate is $4.00 per hundred . That can cost a bundle also, but I just don't want to give up rving yet. I do enjoy sleeping in my own bed instead of the possibility of bed bugs or wondering if the person who slept there(in a motel room) last was a clean person or not.

William


Posted By: BaldyD1 on 07/22/06 07:48pm

wombat56,
Do not believe the personal property tax rate in Chesapeake is $4.08. Have a friend that indicated a tax rate for RVs as $1.48 per $100. Still, $1.48 per $100 is excessive to us. The personal property tax on boats in Chesapeake has recently been reduced because boat owners moved their boats and registered them in Portsmouth or some other city nearby with a lower tax rate. It would be nice if all Virginia cities and counties could reduce the tax rate for RVs.

Edited by BaldyD1 to clearify sentence four.

* This post was edited 07/22/06 08:36pm by BaldyD1 *


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Posted By: voigtrobert on 07/22/06 07:55pm

As a Charleston County, SC resident I can tell you that property taxes in SC will take a big bite out of your cash in most any county you live in. I spoke to one of the LLC law firms in Montana and they sent me a pack of info that CLEARLY showed you are on thin ice in SC. SC requires that any vehicle kept in the state for a certain number of days (it was very low) must be registered there--no matter whether it is owned by a Montana LLC or not. I'm not saying they would ever catch you, but when the Montana lawyers and my SC lawyer both said I'd be on thin ice I decided a Montana LLC needed to wait until I am no longer an official resident of SC. (Problem is that my primary "stick built" home is still in SC, and the motorhome does not spend enough days out of the state. SC is working on property tax relief but I do not think it will be of great benefit to vehicle owners.


BobV
'10 Fleetwood Pulse 24D
'00 Jeep Wrangler Sahara toad


Posted By: BCRJIM on 07/22/06 07:59pm

Am I reading this right? 4.5% ANNUAL personal property tax on the value of your motor home? Geeze, I thought Nevada registration was high, "govermental services tax", about 1.5% per year! Thank goodness we do not have a personal property tax in Nevada!


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Henderson, Nevada (Las Vegas)
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Posted By: cctv on 07/22/06 08:03pm

Whats this about a property tax on RV's. Never heard of that. I sure hope we don't have that in Minnesota. We do have to pay Lic tab just like owning a car but never heard of property tax on one.


Posted By: ricere on 07/22/06 08:03pm

The county I live in in Virginia has very exorbitant taxes on RVs and autos. It's $4.90 per hundred. They assess autos and RVs low, but at $4.90 per hundred, my 06 KSDP would be close to $10,000 per year. That is pure robbery.

I went with the Montana LLC. I live full time in my RV, I purchased it out of state, and I go out of state often with it. That being the case, the Montana lawyers tell me I am perfectly legal, and my insurance company and loan company had no problem with it.



RR
06 Kountry Star DP


Posted By: GoneCamping on 07/22/06 08:24pm

And as another member from Chesapeake one has to ask, what ever happened to the end of that stupid tax anyway? Seems they got rid of it on the cars but it never actually went away, just got reduced some, and Portsmouth ended it on the boats... Maybe one of these cities will see the light and end the tax on RV's to bring them into their locale? Ok, wishful thinking here, but it was a nice thought!

You should also keep in mind that if the city of Chesapeake can squeeze you for a dollar, they will...and then charge you an extra half buck for the service of doing so!!


*Cliff*
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration!"

2000 Ford F-150
2005 Coachmen Spirit of America 300 TBS
Chesapeake, Virginia



Posted By: Backman on 07/22/06 09:01pm

wombat56,

In Newport News the personal property tax is $4.25/$100 for my vehicles but for the motorhome it is $1.00/$100 which makes a big difference. You might want to check with Chesapeake and see if the rate is different there too for motorhomes. Good Luck!


Larry and Debbie
2012 Sanibel 3500
"HPY RVN"



Posted By: Me & She on 07/22/06 09:12pm

I pay about .3% on my motorhome


Charter member: Alaskan's for Global Warming



Posted By: sailor_lou on 07/22/06 09:40pm

In CT the property taxes are different in each town. In my town it's $2.723 per $100 of assessed value. Interesting, because when I owned a boat there was no property tax at all. The only reason I can figure is that more politicians and attorneys own boats than RV's.

Lou


Posted By: Daveinet on 07/22/06 10:38pm

Joy wrote:

To claim it as a business expense, you would have to justify its use in your business the majority of the time - either loaning it to customers, taking customers to business events, etc., Any personal use would then have to be billed to you personally by the business and you would have to show that you paid that or claimed it as income w/IRS. Gets complicated. Unless it is pretty clear cut, most of just eat the taxes as a cost of RVing.


Why can't the bussiness be a rental bussiness and rent it to you. Rent it to yourself.


Dave

The Flying Fortress
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Posted By: 1rooster on 07/23/06 05:09am

I live in Warrenton, VA and recently purchased a new MH. When I mentioned to the sales person about the high property tax on the unit, he suggested that I "garage" the unit in the county next to me. There they don't have any property tax on recreational vehicles. It costs me $50.00 per month storage fees and $25.00 for the other counties decal. My vehicle is still registered in Fauquier Co. Either ask the sales person if there's any counties near by that don't charge property taxes for RV's or check the counties web site and call the property tax office.


Posted By: 1492 on 07/23/06 05:35am

Prince William County, VA does not have an annual personal property tax on motorhomes. Here is a link to the treasurer's office website.


Posted By: pjb2rlb on 07/23/06 05:36am

I live in Greenville, SC and we just purchased our '04 Discovery in May of this year. When we went to transfer the plates from our previous MH to this one, we found out that the taxes on the new MH were going to be approximately $250 per $10,000, so going along those lines we would be paying about $3500 for our personal property tax (which you have to pay those in order to get your license plate). But since our plate was set to renew until October we were told we wouldn't have to pay taxes until then. At which time the lady at the tax office said we could possibly claim it as a second residence and the taxes would be lower. As for sales tax on the unit the most you have to pay is 5% or a maximum of $300. Hope this helps.


Posted By: MotorHomeGuy on 07/23/06 06:41am

Local (Smithfield town and Isle of Wight) personal property taxes and Virginia State income taxes are the exact reason we moved out of Virginia... I love being retired :-)


Ron
"You don't stop playing because you grow old, You grow old because you stop playing."

Mt. Olive Shores North, Polk City, FL (Winters)
2013 Entegra Cornerstone 45J
2011 Jeep Rubicon



Posted By: John S. on 07/23/06 06:49am

When we bought our first Foretravel we were in Fairfax County and had the same problem. We found a storage lot in Fauquier County and the rate went from 5.00 per hundred to 1.50 per hundred. Prince WIlliam has no personal Property tax at all on RVs.

The car tax should have died but the stupid legislators said they would phase it out, then Warner lied and said we were out of money and we had a surplus and we still have the car tax. It was only to be phased out on under 20k too so I wanted atotal repeal.


John
2001 42' Foretravel U320
2007 Bornfree 24 Painted
2001 Jeep Wrangler for 300k miles
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland
Susie and Dolly (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels) now in our hearts and thoughts
Doodle a Black and Tan Cavalier
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Posted By: wombat56 on 07/23/06 06:57am

Folks, thanks for the feedback, alot happened after I went to bed. It appears that there might be a bit of a reprieve if in fact the RV rate is different to the auto rate. $1.40 Per 100 is far better than $4 per 100. So I will check with the City of Chesapeake on monday. Some of you pay high and some pay hardly anything.

As much as I researched web sites, it amazes me how local govts hide their property tax rate from the public. This is a really cool forum and the feedback was very helpful. As far as the price for the excursion is was a $220K list and a $170K offer if you think i can get better i am all for it.

I looked at a lot of rv's I like the Dutch Star the most but I want a local dealer. The Fleetwood was the last I looked at, although you give up some quality, you make up for it in features. (I HOPE) I also read the problem stories.


Posted By: Kiwi_too on 07/23/06 07:41am

Pay it. That is part of any property purchase and is part of RVing. If you decide to look into the LLC than also check with a local attorney. There are some states that have caught onto this and have written legislation or code that sites this as tax evasion if set up solely for that purpose.


Posted By: BaldyD1 on 07/23/06 08:03am

$170K is still excessive! Recommend that you consider other manufacturer's MHs and visit other Fleetwood dealerships prior to purchase.


Posted By: -Gramps- on 07/23/06 08:16am

MotorHomeGuy wrote:

Local (Smithfield town and Isle of Wight) personal property taxes and Virginia State income taxes are the exact reason we moved out of Virginia... I love being retired :-)


We were down there in May. Great place you have there! I am thinking about becomming a resident one day.

To BaldyD1..Are you sure that 170k is excessive for a coach with a MSRP base price over 202k before any options are added on? I am very fimiliar with the local Fleetwood dealer (located in Chesapeake) and they are usually very aggressive when it comes to pricing their rigs. I personaly received a very good deal on my Bounder.


Posted By: Belgique on 07/23/06 08:59am

Was thinking about moving back to VA to be close to kids but this post caused me to check county rates around Richmond on MH's: Henrico $3.50/100; Chesterfield $3.60/100; Powhatan $3.60/100; and Hanover $3.57/100!!!! Forget it! Thanks for this thread.

* This post was edited 07/23/06 09:17am by Belgique *


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2008 Winnie Sightseer 35J



Posted By: voigtrobert on 07/23/06 09:52am

pjb2rlb wrote:

I live in Greenville, SC. . . the lady at the tax office said we could possibly claim it as a second residence and the taxes would be lower. . .


Most definitely, the motorhome can be treated as a second home, and the rate is lower but it is still high. We've done this in Charleston county ever since we've been living in SC.


Posted By: SunflyerA on 07/23/06 11:21am

Excursion

They only had one on their list but they deal in these and are worth looking up.


Posted By: Doug and Cassi Glass on 07/23/06 11:58am

Try Clifton Forge in Alleghany County. Since we're a town we get to pay town and county personal property taxes. $12.78 a hundred on all vehicles, thank you very much! And they wonder why the area is depressed!!

My house is on the market and we'll go fulltime for several years.

I have a lot in the next county (Bath) where the PP taxes are $.20 per hundred. Guess where the m/h spends its life except when being loaded or unloaded!


Posted By: magicbus on 07/23/06 12:02pm

wombat56 wrote:

I have noticed the, the Montana LLC thread, and there were gray areas surrounding that issue as well, I dont know if anyone has gone to task with this IRS on it.
Of course we all know that the IRS has nothing to do with the Montana LLC right? This is a method of avoiding state sales tax and registration fees. There are no federal registration fees or sales tax.

Dave






Posted By: BaldyD1 on 07/23/06 12:18pm

Gramps, The price as listed in one of wombat's posts is $220K with the selling price as $170K. The $220K was not listed as the base price but the list price which should include options. I still believe that with a list/MSRP of $220K, the $170K is excessive. I visited the Chesapeake Fleetwood dealership and had no problem with the dealership except the discount offered was insufficient to gain our business. The offer did give us the impedus to research other manufacturer's products and we finally decided that a Newmar Kountry Star offered the best value. Our first MH was purchased from Dodd RV in Portsmouth because the Chesapeake Fleetwood dealership did not have a good driving MH on the lot [no 39S] and they did not indicate a desire to order anything at a reasonable price. Glad you had a better experience.

Note: Due to invalid formatting, all formatting has been ignored.


Posted By: TropicalRV on 07/23/06 12:37pm

I solved the problem by moving to another state.


Paul
2001 Tropi-Cal 6350, Ford V-10, 310HP, 7.77 MPG
2002 Honda CRV 2WD, 27 MPG


Posted By: Zman300 on 07/23/06 12:44pm

Doug and Cassi Glass wrote:

Try Clifton Forge in Alleghany County. Since we're a town we get to pay town and county personal property taxes. $12.78 a hundred on all vehicles, thank you very much! And they wonder why the area is depressed!!

My house is on the market and we'll go fulltime for several years.

I have a lot in the next county (Bath) where the PP taxes are $.20 per hundred. Guess where the m/h spends its life except when being loaded or unloaded!


$12.78 is that a typo.
Holy @#$#^&((*
I would be driving a moped.


Posted By: Zman300 on 07/23/06 12:46pm

TropicalRV wrote:

I solved the problem by moving to another state.


I hope none of our elected officials see this thread they may get ideas.


Posted By: -Gramps- on 07/23/06 01:30pm

Zman300 wrote:

TropicalRV wrote:

I solved the problem by moving to another state.


I hope none of our elected officials see this thread they may get ideas.


Maybe they should get the idea that motor home owners are also tax payers (real estate, personal property, sales tax and if they are business owners, like myself, they are also tax collectors and business gross sales and tangible business property tax payers as well.) The idea they should get is that if govt eats the golden goose (or just kills it) govt gets no more eggs!

* This post was edited 07/23/06 02:27pm by -Gramps- *


Posted By: Doug and Cassi Glass on 07/23/06 02:12pm

Zman300,

I wish it was a typo. My vehicle taxes on my 99 Jeep and 03 ML500 are almost as much as my $300,000 house. Luckily my m/h is adopted out to its home in Bath County. I moved to VA from CA. Since each little political entity can tax in VA you can really get screwed.

CA isn't cheap, but vehicle licensing is the same all over the state and so is real estate tax. Real estate tax is 1% of the selling price and never changes until you sell the house, then 1% of the new selling price statewide. Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the house I sold in 2001 in Fresno or I'd be on my way back there right now. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is much more accute after getting the big one. VA is supposed to be a low tax state and I guess it is according to the state's level of taxes such as income tax, sales tax, tobacco tax, etc. What they don't figure into the "CHARTS" is the ability of the local politicians to really hose the taxpaying public.

I asked the mayor right after I moved here why they charged such high taxes locally and his answer, in a council meeting was, "Because we can". I knew right then I was in big trouble and had made another major mistake in my move to my lovely wife's family roots.

Live and learn I guess and I can't take it with me, but I sure hate funding all these local boondoggles, ripoffs and downright ridiculous programs.

Off the pedestal.


Posted By: Zman300 on 07/23/06 02:33pm

-Gramps- wrote:

Zman300 wrote:

TropicalRV wrote:

I solved the problem by moving to another state.


I hope none of our elected officials see this thread they may get ideas.


Maybe they should get the idea that motor home owners are also tax payers (real estate, personal property, sales tax and if they are business owners, like myself, they are also tax collectors and business gross sales and tangible business property tax payers as well.) The idea they should get is that if govt eats the golden goose (or just kills it) govt gets no more eggs!


They get plenty of ideas, when comes to taxes it's to often the wrong idea.
You got it they want it.


Posted By: Zman300 on 07/23/06 02:43pm

Doug,

I like the real estate tax formula in CA, but I couldn't afford much of a house out there.
Our real estate taxes just keep going up. The way it works here is if my neighbors house sells for more they raise my taxes.

Your Mayor says because we can? What an arrogant sob. WOW


Posted By: 1492 on 07/23/06 02:53pm

Zman300 wrote:

What about a Montana LLC like many on this board have done.

Registering an RV using a Montana LLC or similar device, has no effect on the "annual" personal property tax in VA. Here's a quote taken from my Counties treasurer's office:

"Arlington County taxes cars, trucks, buses, motorcycles, motor homes, trailers, semitrailers, boats and aircraft."

"Vehicles registered in Arlington County will be taxed. Vehicles not registered with the Virginia State Department of Motor Vehicles or Arlington County are also subject to tax if the vehicle is normally garaged, stored, or parked in Arlington, with the exception of those exempted by law."

Maybe VA should call this a "parking" tax instead!


Posted By: MAD4GOLF on 07/23/06 05:46pm

I live in Va Beach (don't know about Chesapeake) and VB charges $1.50 per $100 of assessed values for a RV. Check the Chesapeake City Web Site and you might find the assessment tables.


Posted By: troutmd on 07/24/06 12:27am

Wow, this thread makes me like Texas that much better. If someone would have told about these taxes yall are talking about I would have called BS.

In Texas, its 6.25% when you purchase the vehicle (of selling cost), after that renew registration is like 100-150 bucks a year...


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