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Topic: 3/4 Tons Pulling Raptors

Posted By: RVpullinGuy on 03/03/07 01:29pm

What experiences (real open and honest likes or dislikes or concerns or whatever) have you had pulling your Raptors with a 3/4 ton? We know all the arguments (ad nauseum) for buying a 1 ton dully to pull these trailers, so I would like this thread to be real life experiences of those who are pulling them right now. I hope this will be informative and constructive discussion - not attacking. You can send private message if you don't want to open yourself up to attack by the weight police. Thanks in advance.


RVpullinGuy
2006 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison CC SB
2005 Sierra T28 Toy Hauler
YamRaptor700, KawiKFX700, (2)Hon400Ex, Hon250EX, SuzLT80



Posted By: ronnieb2 on 03/03/07 02:33pm

I tow my Raptor 3612 with a 250 with over load springs and never had an issue. I'm sure the weight police will get in here and give there two cents. I totaled the 250 and have moved to a new 350 with another V10 and see no issue this summer with the 350 being able to handle it. I had many conversation with my mechanic and he use to sit on the BBB board here and we did several minor things to the truck and we are good to go. I really don't see an issue but others have there opinion.


2006 Ford F350 V10 Long Bed
2006 Keystone Raptor 3612
Custom Overload Springs
94 Polaris 400
02 Polaris 400
06 Polaris 550 H/O
09 Polaris Phoenix, Pink


Posted By: Tazman822 on 03/03/07 04:06pm

About 12,000 miles, live in MI been to South Dakota, all through MI, and Kentucky. Pull it in snow and summer haven’t had any problems yet. Leaving at the end of the mouth for Georgia, really looking forward to pulling my Raptor. It’s really hard for me to wipe the smile off my face when I get out of the truck, there is almost nothing I enjoy more the pulling my trailer. I could pull it to a campground have a fire and drive home and I would consider it a good trip.


Scott & Jeanette
2004 F250 CC FX4 6.0 PSD, Reese 18K Signature Series hitch, Firestone Ride-Rite
2006 Raptor 3612DS
2000 CR250
2004 TRX250
2003 RX50
2006 ETON VIPER 70
2006 TRX90
2007 ETON VIPER 90

Family Gallery



Posted By: dadkids on 03/03/07 04:41pm

no problems here, I am on my 3rd sw truck pulling my Rappy and never felt unesy at all.


2007 Mandalay Valencia 38D bunk bed model
former 06 Raptor 3612 ds
06 Kawie kfx 700
06 Honda Trx 250
08 Polaris RZR
05 Honda 250 Recon
06 Honda Trx 90
2008 Ford F 250 4x4 cc sb king ranch,


Posted By: HavaRaptor on 03/03/07 02:46pm

I towed mine with a F350 diesel. I really never felt totaly in control. Transmission also got really hot going up hills. I traded to another forum member who towed a similar weight vehicle about 3 times and then sold it. I really did like the Ford alot and I have owned MANY trucks of that size. Just did not work for us. I'm sure I will recieve some flack for this reply. The Raptor is a HEAVY unit and when loaded with all the toys and fuel and water it ia a VERY heavy unit. Good luck in whatever you tow with and just be careful........Jerry


2005 Newmar Kountry Star
2000 Kenworth T2K
2008 Ford F250 4X4 Diesel
2012 Can Am Commander X
2008 Can Am Outlander 650XT
2012 Can Am Outlander 1000XT



Posted By: HeatAnywhere on 03/03/07 03:22pm

Over 800 miles of towing my raptor with my truck. No problems what so ever. I feel just fine taking it nice and easy.


**Never get so busy making a living that you forget to make a life**

04.5 Sierra 2500HD CC SB Duramax/Alison plenty of mods
07 Raptor 3712TS and lovin' it
07 Grizzly 660(4x4)
04 Grizzly 660(4x4)
02 RM250 bike
05 90cc Predator
05 KX50 bike


Posted By: reactancexl on 03/03/07 06:46pm

I tow a 3814ss with a 2500 dodge. Have over 5k so far. I added an extra leaf spring in the back and new shocks which have helped


Posted By: rcchallenger on 03/04/07 10:17am

I pull a Raptor 3612DS with the SRW F350 in my sig. I have not had any problems. I hate dually trucks because outside of towing they are a PITA to park. The Raptor is very heavy though and my next truck may be an F450. In the mean time, I feel safe towing with the F350. It tracks well and stops without any problems. I do, however, try to stay around 60 MPH when towing.


2005 Ford F350 XLT 4X4 SRW Powerstroke Diesel Firestone Air Bags
2007 Gearbox 26OFS
2006 Yamaha WR450
2006 Yamaha YFZ450
2005 Yamaha TTR230
2005 Honda CRF 250
2006 Kinroad XT250CC Go-Kart


Posted By: rcchallenger on 03/04/07 10:33am

Bellclan5 wrote:

Guys,

I dont have a Raptor, but after reading your thread I feel that I have to chim in.

First of all I want to make it clear that I am not bagging on any one type of truck. They are all nice and have different options that people like.

My concern with pulling a Raptor is the weight. It isnt that your trucks dont have the power for pulling a trailer with that weight, it is the fact that the brakes arnt up to snuff for that type of weight.

I did a lot of research and talked with a lot of pro's and I was told that the power is more than enough it is the braking power that I didnt have. I have a F350 and from what I have been told it can pull a house, the problem is stopping the house.

How often are you changing your brakes? Have you upgraded your brakes?

These would be my two biggest concerns with all the research and talks that I have had.

Good luck and safe travels.


I have pulled my Raptor about 8,000 miles with my F350 and my brakes are hardly worn. My combo also stops very well.I can only give my real world experience, none of that is coming from Ford design engineers.


Posted By: dadkids on 03/03/07 11:17pm

HavaRaptor wrote:

dadkids wrote:

no problems here, I am on my 3rd sw truck pulling my Rappy and never felt unesy at all.


What happend, did you ware the other two out!! Just kidding I told you I would get flack for my post.....

didnt wear them ,just for tax purposes I get a new truck every year. Just add airbgs and you are more than good to go with a 2500 unless you are pulling the 3712, then I would say get a dually.


Posted By: HavaRaptor on 03/03/07 06:23pm

dadkids wrote:

no problems here, I am on my 3rd sw truck pulling my Rappy and never felt unesy at all.


What happend, did you ware the other two out!! Just kidding I told you I would get flack for my post.....


Posted By: hopper98 on 03/04/07 07:16am

I pull a 3712 with a 2500HD. I added Timbrens but other than that no problems. It pulls fine and more importantly, stops fine as well. We have pulled it all over the SE (Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina) as well as a trip to Indinia and back.


Posted By: Rhinoroof on 03/03/07 11:38pm

I tow my 3512 raptor with a 2500 dodge CTD on problems just roll it slow. Nothing over 55 for me.


Posted By: Bellclan5 on 03/04/07 10:14am

Guys,

I dont have a Raptor, but after reading your thread I feel that I have to chim in.

First of all I want to make it clear that I am not bagging on any one type of truck. They are all nice and have different options that people like.

My concern with pulling a Raptor is the weight. It isnt that your trucks dont have the power for pulling a trailer with that weight, it is the fact that the brakes arnt up to snuff for that type of weight.

I did a lot of research and talked with a lot of pro's and I was told that the power is more than enough it is the braking power that I didnt have. I have a F350 and from what I have been told it can pull a house, the problem is stopping the house.

How often are you changing your brakes? Have you upgraded your brakes?

These would be my two biggest concerns with all the research and talks that I have had.

Good luck and safe travels.


Ford F-350 V10 4X4 6" Lift
Vortex 325WTB FW Triple Axle
2004 Sandrail VW 2386, 4 Seater
2003 660
2006 250
2006 250
2006 250
2006 250
1995 Yamaha YZ250
2007 Quad 90cc

Beautiful Wife
Two Sons
Two Daughters
One Grandson
Two Rotts
One Yorkie


Posted By: PermanentMarker on 03/04/07 11:15am

I don't get the whole brake argument. Doesn't your trailer have brakes? My brake performance when towing is only marginally poorer than when unloaded. It's better with the 38.5 fifth wheel attached than with my dad's boat, because the boat trailer has no brakes.

Maybe some folks need to adjust their brake controllers. ???

Marc


2005 Sierra F37
2004 Chevy D/A CC LT, fully farkled
Cannondale quads


Posted By: reactancexl on 03/05/07 07:37am

PermanentMarker wrote:

I don't get the whole brake argument. Doesn't your trailer have brakes? My brake performance when towing is only marginally poorer than when unloaded. It's better with the 38.5 fifth wheel attached than with my dad's boat, because the boat trailer has no brakes.

Maybe some folks need to adjust their brake controllers. ???

Marc


AGREED!!! So I guess the argument (I think) is if the truck can stop the trailer if the trailer brakes fail? What happens if the truck brakes fail? Can the trailer brakes stop the truck?


Posted By: time_to_go_now on 03/04/07 08:58pm

Why is there always a discussion of pulling with a 3/4 ton vs. a 1 ton? Has anybody actually looked to see what the differences are? I bought a new 2004 Ford F-250 PSD CC 4x4 SWD. My buddy bought the same truck, but F-350. We chacked part numbers for brakes, springs, tranny, differential, rims, etc. The only difference we could find was the badging and the tires. The F-350 had tires that were rated to carry about 200 lbs. more per tire. That was it!

Must be similar for Dodge based on a previous post.

If a F-350 can pull it (and stop it!), then a F-250 can pull it. There is very little difference. And if you change out the tires on the F-250, I will argue there is NO difference. However, you do have that label that says the F-350 has a higher GVWR and GCWR. Maybe that is worth something to someone...


Jim and Deanna

2008 Tiffin Allegro 35QBA
2007 Carson Trailer 22' Titan TH
Trailer Toad
Me, Wife, Boy/16, Boy/13, Girl/10
1985 Toyota 4Runner
FOUR quads, THREE kids, TWO motorcycles, ONE wife, ONE dog, ONE cat, ONE Polaris RZR



Posted By: Quadhauler on 03/04/07 11:02pm

mikeyairtime wrote:

It doesn't take a genius to get past the badges on the truck and look at the real hardware.


But,but,but, what about the Ford Towing guide!!!


2011 Chevy Dmax 4x4 Dually
Holiday Rambler Next Level 40' 2 slides
2006 Lance 1161 Truck Camper
2014 Polaris RZR XP 1000
2011 Can Am Commander XT 1000
2012 Arctic Cat Wildcat 1000
2005 Yamaha TW 200
1987 Yamaha TW 200
1965 Heald Super Bronc
more...


Posted By: Rolls59 on 03/04/07 10:34pm

mikeyairtime wrote:

"I talked to a bunch of pro's" (you mean truck salesmen). Wake up people, the brakes are the same, the axles are the same. The only limiting factor on a srw 3/4 ton truck is the tires which is why they make duallies. The only difference between a 2500 and a 3500 is rear springs. The brakes are the same and one could make an argument that a lighter 2wd 2500 could stop better than heavier 4wd 3500 because that 1 ton truck could weigh as much as 1000 lbs more. The differences in stopping are negligable at best because of the anti-loc brakes. The only concern for a srw is a tire failure plain and simple. An older 1 ton dually is nowhere near as capable at stopping a big load as a current 3/4 ton HD srw with anti lock four wheel disc brakes. It doesn't take a genius to get past the badges on the truck and look at the real hardware.


AMEN!

Tires...its really all about the tires...if there is a weak link in ones set-up with heavy pin weight it would be the tires. Seems like ever other part on these trucks is nearly identical. Almost makes you wonder if the whole 2500 vs. 3500SRW is just MARKETING for the manufacturers.


2003 Dodge 2500 CTD (305/555) SWB SRW 4x4 Laramie / Rancho 9000X, Timbren SES, Pullrite Superglide, Prodigy
2007 Forest River Sierra Sport F32SP Toyhauler, Mor/Ryde pin box
2004 Yamaha Rhino 660 Camo, 4 seater


Posted By: Rolls59 on 03/04/07 01:52pm

Before I bought my set-up I kept hearing..."a diesel will pull the heck out of it, but stopping it is another story". Well I just do not find that to be the case. My 2500 Dodge pulls and stops and 32' 5th wheel just fine (the brakes on my truck are the exact same as the ones on the Dodge 3500SRW). In fact sometimes, it feels like the truck rides nicer with the load. My trailer, as with other trailers, comes standard with brakes on each axle and the brake controller in my truck is adjusted correctly. The difference between stopping with no trailer and hooked up is not much difference. I think the biggest factor that limits SRW trucks with heavy trailers is the tires themselves. You will find that most everything is exactly the same on a 2500, 3500SRW and 3500DRW. With the difference being the two extra tires on the DRW.

The difference between a Dodge 2500 and 3500 SRW are:
1.) Badging
2.) Cab clearance lights
3.) Extra overload spring in rear leaf (easily made up for on a 2500
with the addition of bags, Timbrens, Super Spring...etc).

I currently have 65,000 miles on my Dodge. Have towed the trailer on about a dozen trips, some as far as 500 miles away. On my last service at Dodge I was told my brakes still have 40+% life left in them. I'll take that. Plus I still have the original Michelin LTX A/S tires on the truck that still have a ways to go before wearing out. So far everything is holding up and lasting just fine.

Sorry to chip in since I do not own a Raptor, but I do tow a 5th wheel toyhauler with a 2500 truck.


Posted By: mikeyairtime on 03/04/07 10:28pm

"I talked to a bunch of pro's" (you mean truck salesmen). Wake up people, the brakes are the same, the axles are the same. The only limiting factor on a srw 3/4 ton truck is the tires which is why they make duallies. The only difference between a 2500 and a 3500 is rear springs. The brakes are the same and one could make an argument that a lighter 2wd 2500 could stop better than heavier 4wd 3500 because that 1 ton truck could weigh as much as 1000 lbs more. The differences in stopping are negligable at best because of the anti-loc brakes. The only concern for a srw is a tire failure plain and simple. An older 1 ton dually is nowhere near as capable at stopping a big load as a current 3/4 ton HD srw with anti lock four wheel disc brakes. It doesn't take a genius to get past the badges on the truck and look at the real hardware.


Posted By: ToyCrate on 03/04/07 12:27pm

I agree. My fifth wheel (same one as yours, marker) barely changes my braking performance. The trailer brakes should be adequate to stop the weight of the fifth wheel by themselves.


Posted By: ToyCrate on 03/04/07 11:11am

Dodge too, from what I've been told.


Posted By: WeightPolice on 03/04/07 02:20pm

Bellclan5 wrote:

Guys,

I dont have a Raptor, but after reading your thread I feel that I have to chim in.

First of all I want to make it clear that I am not bagging on any one type of truck. They are all nice and have different options that people like.

My concern with pulling a Raptor is the weight. It isnt that your trucks dont have the power for pulling a trailer with that weight, it is the fact that the brakes arnt up to snuff for that type of weight.

I did a lot of research and talked with a lot of pro's and I was told that the power is more than enough it is the braking power that I didnt have. I have a F350 and from what I have been told it can pull a house, the problem is stopping the house.

How often are you changing your brakes? Have you upgraded your brakes?

These would be my two biggest concerns with all the research and talks that I have had.

Good luck and safe travels.


we have an F-250 and pull a 33ft 14,000 pound fith wheel and have no problems. in fact we regret not going bigger.
chill on sticking to the book and look for real life experiences. Everyone ive talked to about pulling overweight with a 3/4 and above diesel has had no problems.


2007 Rampage 337
2004 Ford F-250 6.0 PSD
2007 Yamaha YZ450F
2003 Yamaha YZ250
2003 Honda 400EX
2002 Honda 250EX


Posted By: big kahuna1 on 03/05/07 06:18am

Quote:

But,but,but, what about the Ford Towing guide!!!


And, and, and what about that Tow Boss. You upgrade that F350 to a tow boss to get that extra little gear and you can tow another 50,000lbs. It can't stop any better but it sure will haul that extra weight.


Posted By: RVpullinGuy on 03/04/07 10:37am

Bellclan5 wrote:

Guys,

I dont have a Raptor, but after reading your thread I feel that I have to chim in.

First of all I want to make it clear that I am not bagging on any one type of truck. They are all nice and have different options that people like.

My concern with pulling a Raptor is the weight. It isnt that your trucks dont have the power for pulling a trailer with that weight, it is the fact that the brakes arnt up to snuff for that type of weight.

I did a lot of research and talked with a lot of pro's and I was told that the power is more than enough it is the braking power that I didnt have. I have a F350 and from what I have been told it can pull a house, the problem is stopping the house.

How often are you changing your brakes? Have you upgraded your brakes?

These would be my two biggest concerns with all the research and talks that I have had.

Good luck and safe travels.

The brakes are the same on Ford and Chevy 3/4 ton versus 1 ton trucks.


Posted By: eicht on 03/04/07 04:34pm

I tow my Raptor 3310 with an 04 F-250 with V10 and it tows and stops just fine. I added a set of Super Springs. 3310 is about a ton lighter then the 3612 though.


Posted By: diamanti1 on 03/05/07 08:02pm

Ok...I am going to throw myself under the truck here. I have a 07 Raptor 3712 that I am pulling with a 2006 F-250. Personally I have no issue with the towing or the stopping. I do have my trailer brakes properly adjusted and the truck doesn't have issues with braking. I am looking at upgrading the tires this Spring and am looking at the load rating on tires carefully. As for mods...I only added airbags and really help in leveling the load on the truck. I have about 7 trips to Gordons Well this year on the truck and performs well in the flats and hills. Actually gets nearly the same mpg with the raptor as it does without it.


2007 Raptor 3712TS
2006 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO Blue - mine
2005 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO Red - hers
2006 Ford F250 Crew 4x4


Posted By: cthehentz on 03/05/07 07:25pm

Gosh I love BBQ pork chops I am so fullll I can barley type, ok , the only thing is the wind and towing my 13,000lb loaded trailer (it's no Raptor) but any 1ton dually would be more stable. I can tell you I have been shopping around for a new Raptor (3814ss) but I ran the weight figures and I have to get a bigger truck just to be safe. One salesman said SURE you can tow it no problem but I say why take the risk, it's better to be safe then sorry... If you have your trailer brakes adjusted and set just rite you shouldn't have any problems stopping, I'm at 60,900 on my original pads and still have more then 3/4 pad left so I don't buy the ford or 3/4ton weak pad grype.


2007 F350 Tow Boss FX4 CC LB
2003 33' 5er Thor Tahoe Transport



Posted By: Rhinoroof on 03/04/07 09:08pm

I agree with the trailer brakes doing most of the stopping if adjucted right. We had a incedent in the rain last year. We were cut off and had to brake quickly, kind of hairy but didnt get out of control. I do have air bags to level the truck out.


Posted By: Huntindog on 03/07/07 06:27pm

firehawk356 wrote:

I was at the Dodge dealer today and the salesman I talked to was really patient about all of my DRW to SRW 1 ton questions. We looked up a bunch of numbers and from what we saw in the Dodge product there is 2 differences in the 2500 and the 3500, helper springs and another set of tires. The truck that really turns my crank is a Megacab dually and on it they literally took and regular 2500 then put addon fenders to cover the duals and an extra spring pack. All it really came down to when deciding what you tow is can your tires carry the weight and is it within the GCVW of your vehicle. By the way trailer brakes stop trailers not trucks. I was looking because I am really considering a Raptor, the GCVW of my truck is 18000 lbs. The Raptor I am looking at would put me 1500lbs over that. The GCVW of my truck and a 1 ton is exactly the same the 1 ton just allows more pin weight.


You are correct in that trailer brakes stop trailers,, not trucks IF everything is working correctly.

I read an article several years ago about the testing that Ford does to determine their tow ratings. One of the things that stuck in my mind was that the truck had to meet certain braking standards with a trailer at the max rated weight AND NO trailer brakes. It was explained that this would simulate a loss of trailer brakes and it had to pass this test in order to receive the rating.

I don't remember exactly what the tests entailed, but do remember being pretty impressed at the high standards Ford required from their trucks.

I think when it comes to brakes, this conservative approach is best.

I am sure that all of the manufacturers use similar tests when deciding on their tow ratings.

* This post was last edited 03/07/07 07:10pm by Huntindog *


Huntindog
2010 Palomino Sabre 30BHDS
TWO bathrooms...No waiting!
MICHELIN XPS RIBS LRE
2011 Silverado Big Dually 3500 4x4 CC D/A
EQUALIZER Hitch
100% BOONDOCKING
Check out Rusty and her pups at www.bluecollarbrittanys.com



Posted By: lincster on 03/08/07 11:06am

Quadhauler wrote:

The brakes in a SRW 3/4 ton and 1 ton are exactly the same...


Only for the same model year truck.
05 and newer Super duties have bigger brakes then 99-04 models.


2012 F350 PSD CC 4X4 Dually to pull 2006 LE3905

Lincsters Truck/Trailer

Lincsters Rail


Posted By: lincster on 03/07/07 06:59am

RGERBER875 wrote:

What did I know, I have neither… with that said, here is what I am thinking.

If the trailer gets out of control – for whatever reason

1. Will it throw the truck around more that it would for the properly weighted truck.
2. If the accident causes serious injury or death – and a big suit is filed will your Insurance cover the accident if your were over Manufactures suggested weight rating.

If I wasn’t for those two issues , I would own a 3612 raptor already.

I like modified 250 or 350 trucks 6” lift tires wheels grill you get the point.

The modified duals do nothing for me not to mention the fact that 90% of or driving is regular to the store type stuff.

Let me know if I am a whacked,


Not sure if you are whacked, I am having a hard time following what you are trying to say.......


Posted By: sandnut on 03/08/07 03:27pm

[quote=RGERBER875]What did I know, I have neither… with that said, here is what I am thinking. If the trailer gets out of control – for whatever reason 1. Will it throw the truck around more that it would for the properly weighted truck. 2. If the accident causes serious injury or death – and a big suit is filed will your Insurance cover the accident if your were over Manufactures suggested weight rating. I like modified 250 or 350 trucks 6” lift tires wheels grill you get the point. ,[/quote] I'm getting here a little late, but I want to add my $.02 here. As for concern #1, in pretty much every 3/4 & 1 ton truck I have seen, when weighed apples to apples (i.e drives of ~same weight, fuel level the same, etc), the weights are usually real close. If an out of control trailer is going to throw around a 3/4-ton, it'll likely do it to a 1-ton, too. For #2, it you run a stop sign & t-bone someone, does your insurance say they don't have to pay since the wreck was caused by an illegal action? They still pay, up to the limit of liability on your policy. If you're in an accident & overweight (according to the all-powerful, all-knowing god-like sticker on your door jamb[/sarcasm off]), how could they deny coverage? Running a stop sign is (I am pretty sure on this) specifically against the law in all 50 states. It's written down in the lawbooks. Show me where in those lawbooks it says that that stupid door sticker is the be all end all gospel truth? The weight police on this board are well intentioned, but oftentimes overzealous. YMMV.

Note: Due to invalid formatting, all formatting has been ignored.


02 F-250 PSD, bone stock
07 Forest River Wolfpack f295wp
06 Sportsman 500 (hers)
06 Raptor (his)
03 Predator
67 Mustang coupe

SouthernNevadaPowerStrokes.org


Posted By: Evileyes on 08/23/07 01:59am

I have towed mine all over the place. But I want more truck and more stopping power. The biggest reason is the laws here in CA. I don't want the ticket for towing out of class and I don't want a ticket for being over loaded. So since I already have to change my license to a NonComm Class A to tow my rig I might as well get the bigger truck too. So with that I am looking at getting the new F450. But as far as towing is concerned, yes my 250 w/the V10 did fine. At first is was scary. I had my breaks checked on the trailer and they told me they were about 60 clicks out. He was amazed that I could even stop it. After the adjustment it was noticbly better, I was not white knuckling the steering wheel anymore. http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/evileyes/673155.jpg[/img]

Note: Due to invalid formatting, all formatting has been ignored.






Posted By: networkninja on 08/23/07 02:43am

a little off topic but how hard is it to get a NonComm Class A??? in California ?


--
08 Ford F450 Lariat 4x4 CC PSD 6.4, 4.88
08 Weekend Warrior CR3905 Billet Ed
07 Yamaha Rhino 660 w/ Long Travel
06 Yamaha Raptor 700R
05 Yamaha YZ-450R
04 Yamaha YFZ-450
04 Sukuzi LTZ-400


Posted By: Quadhauler on 03/08/07 10:22am

The brakes in a SRW 3/4 ton and 1 ton are exactly the same...


Posted By: Quadhauler on 03/08/07 11:15am

lincster wrote:

Quadhauler wrote:

The brakes in a SRW 3/4 ton and 1 ton are exactly the same...


Only for the same model year truck.
05 and newer Super duties have bigger brakes then 99-04 models.


My comments were more directed at the manufacturers using the brakes to adjust the weight ratings. While it may be true between a 1999 and a 2007, obviously it has nothing to do with it on same year trucks.


Posted By: firehawk356 on 03/08/07 07:32am

Thats a great point about brakes huntindog, that is probably a consideration when they figure the GCVW.


IAFF local 2164

2006 Dodge Mega-Cab 3500 auto SRW
2004 Americamp F300BHS
2007 Yamaha SX210 boat


Posted By: firehawk356 on 03/07/07 05:54pm

I was at the Dodge dealer today and the salesman I talked to was really patient about all of my DRW to SRW 1 ton questions. We looked up a bunch of numbers and from what we saw in the Dodge product there is 2 differences in the 2500 and the 3500, helper springs and another set of tires. The truck that really turns my crank is a Megacab dually and on it they literally took and regular 2500 then put addon fenders to cover the duals and an extra spring pack. All it really came down to when deciding what you tow is can your tires carry the weight and is it within the GCVW of your vehicle. By the way trailer brakes stop trailers not trucks. I was looking because I am really considering a Raptor, the GCVW of my truck is 18000 lbs. The Raptor I am looking at would put me 1500lbs over that. The GCVW of my truck and a 1 ton is exactly the same the 1 ton just allows more pin weight.

* This post was edited 03/07/07 06:03pm by firehawk356 *


Posted By: gouldc on 08/23/07 07:58am

Unless I'm mistaken, there's quite a difference between the SRW and DRW, at least as far as the rear end is concerned, a beefier axle being one of them. A lot more than just tires and springs.

If everyone is claiming that the 3/4 and 1 ton are virtually the same, I can chime in. I've towed with a SRW 1 ton (or 3/4 ton, whatever you want to call it) and a DRW and can say in ALL honesty, it is a much better, comfortable, relaxing drive. We do 20 hour round trips over a weekend quite often and I no longer dread them, I look forward to them. I have enough stress in my life. I don't need more when I'm supposed to be relaxing.

But, each to there own. If your comfortable pulling that much weight with a 3/4 ton truck, who am I to say differently. One thing you didn't mention is what Raptor you are looking at. My pin is close to 4000lbs loaded. On my SRW that put me 1600lbs over before my family and hitch were in the truck. No wonder the truck felt uneasy.


03' Lariat F350, 6.0L Short Box *SOLD*
04' Jayco Eagle 28FKS *SOLD*

08' FX4 F350 6.4L Dually Long Box, Black on Black PICTURES
07' Keystone Raptor 3712TS PICTURES
Reese 18k Signature Series Hitch


Posted By: RGERBER875 on 03/06/07 08:49pm

What did I know, I have neither… with that said, here is what I am thinking.

If the trailer gets out of control – for whatever reason

1. Will it throw the truck around more that it would for the properly weighted truck.
2. If the accident causes serious injury or death – and a big suit is filed will your Insurance cover the accident if your were over Manufactures suggested weight rating.

If I wasn’t for those two issues , I would own a 3612 raptor already.

I like modified 250 or 350 trucks 6” lift tires wheels grill you get the point.

The modified duals do nothing for me not to mention the fact that 90% of or driving is regular to the store type stuff.

Let me know if I am a whacked,


2005 22' FRONT BATH GEARBOX PULLED BY A 2004 CHEVY HD 8.1 4X4

TOYS ARE:
1994 SUZUKI SAMURAI
LT-R 450 SUZUKI
POLARIS PREDATOR 500
POLARIS RZR


Posted By: pawatt on 03/09/07 10:08pm

Our friend totally burned out her brakes going down a mountain pass at Pagosa Springs. Was lucky to get stopped and had to be towed down.


pawatt


Posted By: Ned Flanders on 03/05/07 08:07pm

I love the way our F250 , (w/taller rear blocks and F350 badges) tows ours.
I would like a TowBoss though.
An '05 F250 is rated higher than my '04 350.
Our rig tows great...But I can only imagine what a 2 wheel drive Dodge,Ford or Cheby Dually would be like. SIGH....someday


2004 Ford F350 6 leeter
2005 Raptor 3319 , BFG Commercial TA's , LED's
'91 Banshee
Old 4 seater buggy
A whole lotta debt , but a smile on my face



Posted By: rcchallenger on 03/07/07 08:34am

RGERBER875 wrote:

What did I know, I have neither… with that said, here is what I am thinking.

If the trailer gets out of control – for whatever reason

1. Will it throw the truck around more that it would for the properly weighted truck.
2. If the accident causes serious injury or death – and a big suit is filed will your Insurance cover the accident if your were over Manufactures suggested weight rating.

If I wasn’t for those two issues , I would own a 3612 raptor already.

I like modified 250 or 350 trucks 6” lift tires wheels grill you get the point.

The modified duals do nothing for me not to mention the fact that 90% of or driving is regular to the store type stuff.

Let me know if I am a whacked,


Question 1. My trailer has never been out of control. As heavy as these trailers are if they jacknife, I think you're going to lose it whether it's SRW or DRW. Dual Rear Wheels should be more stable

Question 2. Urban Legend


Posted By: rcchallenger on 03/13/07 11:41am

mikeyairtime wrote:

The biggest problem isn't if the truck is a 3/4 or 1 ton, it's the guys that tow these big fivers like they're towing a little travel trailer. You need to respect these things like you're driving a semi. If you're weaving through traffic at 70 on the crowded 15 fwy you're in over your head, even with the magic Tow Boss option.


Amen!!!!! I try to stay at 60 MPH and less at all times and stick with one lane unless it's really necessary to go around someone.


Posted By: rcchallenger on 03/10/07 09:27am

pawatt wrote:

Our friend totally burned out her brakes going down a mountain pass at Pagosa Springs. Was lucky to get stopped and had to be towed down.


My truck has the Torqshift Transmission with Tow Haul mode. I barely use my brakes going down steep grades. I believe the Allison set up in the GM trucks is the same. If you tow a heavy trailer, it's best to have a tow haul mode or an exhaust brake. If you ride your brakes they are going to overheat with or without a trailer on back.


Posted By: silversalmon on 03/07/07 07:31am

What, what, what???! (To the tune of the South Park lady)

I had a hard time following that one too.


Posted By: mikeyairtime on 03/13/07 10:29am

The biggest problem isn't if the truck is a 3/4 or 1 ton, it's the guys that tow these big fivers like they're towing a little travel trailer. You need to respect these things like you're driving a semi. If you're weaving through traffic at 70 on the crowded 15 fwy you're in over your head, even with the magic Tow Boss option.


Posted By: Hogrydr on 03/12/07 12:00pm

I started out towing my 3612 Raptor with a Ford PSD 6.0 and felt it pulled OK....Then I made several trips in the southeast and found that it labored pretty hard on grades(in this area they sure aren't steep or as long as the ones out west)shifting down sometimes twice and dropping to 35-45mph on uphill grades and the rpm's up around 3000+..sounded as if it was reving to high...also I found that stopping on a downhill grade was a little unnerving to say the least ...Then on a pretty easy trip to Destin, Fl, I had to make an emergency stop because a elderly lady pulled out in front of me ...I had the RV brakes adjusted correctly and the ABS was functioning on my Ford truck ...During heavy braking the truck/RV started to jackknife and I fought it back and it tried to go the other way and I was lucky enough to get it back again and got stopped just short of hitting the lady since she stopped right in the middle of the road..(DW was screaming and said she knew we were going to crash) This got me to wondering if I should be pulling the kind of weight the Raptor has with this truck ...I researched the numbers and found that Ford says it is OK ...Gross veh weight ..gross combined weight ...fiver weight ..were all within specs ...But I'm going to tell you from experience that it will not stop in a emergency situation ...I added Air-bags, exhaust brake, Edge Chip w/GPS ..Thinking that the incident was just a unavoidable incident that didn't cause any damage ,except to the nerves...The more I thought about it and the more I tried to pull the RV, I was not comfortable ...I have a company that uses trucks in business and it dawned on me that this would be the way to go to be able to pull and stop with out any problems ...I made the switch and have been out west on several trips up north and to the east coast and have had short stops and long uphill pulls with no problems(65mph in 10th gear on 8% grades that were a couple miles long..no brakes on the down hill side ..just engine brake) .....this is Just my opinion ...but I do feel I made the correct decision....Jim


Rally Sport/Travel Supreme
Bigfoot Levelers
Carefree Slide Toppers
Volvo 610 Singled
Trailersaver/with airbags
Harley Lo-Rider ...DW
Harley Roadking ...Moi
A Golden Retriever..Skeet
A Chocolate Lab ..Trash
Toyota FJ Toad


Posted By: tburke1 on 03/08/07 03:35pm

[quote=sandnut][quote=RGERBER875]What did I know, I have neither… with that said, here is what I am thinking. If the trailer gets out of control – for whatever reason 1. Will it throw the truck around more that it would for the properly weighted truck. 2. If the accident causes serious injury or death – and a big suit is filed will your Insurance cover the accident if your were over Manufactures suggested weight rating. I like modified 250 or 350 trucks 6” lift tires wheels grill you get the point. ,[/quote] I'm getting here a little late, but I want to add my $.02 here. As for concern #1, in pretty much every 3/4 & 1 ton truck I have seen, when weighed apples to apples (i.e drives of ~same weight, fuel level the same, etc), the weights are usually real close. If an out of control trailer is going to throw around a 3/4-ton, it'll likely do it to a 1-ton, too. For #2, it you run a stop sign & t-bone someone, does your insurance say they don't have to pay since the wreck was caused by an illegal action? They still pay, up to the limit of liability on your policy. If you're in an accident & overweight (according to the all-powerful, all-knowing god-like sticker on your door jamb[/sarcasm off]), how could they deny coverage? Running a stop sign is (I am pretty sure on this) specifically against the law in all 50 states. It's written down in the lawbooks. Show me where in those lawbooks it says that that stupid door sticker is the be all end all gospel truth? The weight police on this board are well intentioned, but oftentimes overzealous. YMMV.[/quote] I agree 100%:)

Note: Due to invalid formatting, all formatting has been ignored.


2004.5 Dodge Ram 3500 DRW
2005 New Vision 41kgx2



Posted By: WeightPolice on 03/07/07 11:46am

rcchallenger wrote:

RGERBER875 wrote:

What did I know, I have neither… with that said, here is what I am thinking.

If the trailer gets out of control – for whatever reason

1. Will it throw the truck around more that it would for the properly weighted truck.
2. If the accident causes serious injury or death – and a big suit is filed will your Insurance cover the accident if your were over Manufactures suggested weight rating.

If I wasn’t for those two issues , I would own a 3612 raptor already.

I like modified 250 or 350 trucks 6” lift tires wheels grill you get the point.

The modified duals do nothing for me not to mention the fact that 90% of or driving is regular to the store type stuff.

Let me know if I am a whacked,


Question 1. My trailer has never been out of control. As heavy as these trailers are if they jacknife, I think you're going to lose it whether it's SRW or DRW. Dual Rear Wheels should be more stable

Question 2. Urban Legend


haha reminds me of when we were buying our 5th wheel the salesman was trying to push us to buy an auto sliding hitch. his main point was "well if you end up in a jacknife situation on the freeway or something, it will break your back window" lol i think if i jacknife my trailer going 60 i have way bigger problems to worrie about then my back window smashing in! haha sorry pretty off topic


Posted By: coribdx on 03/12/07 10:46am

Bellclan5 wrote:

Guys,

I dont have a Raptor, but after reading your thread I feel that I have to chim in.

First of all I want to make it clear that I am not bagging on any one type of truck. They are all nice and have different options that people like.

My concern with pulling a Raptor is the weight. It isnt that your trucks dont have the power for pulling a trailer with that weight, it is the fact that the brakes arnt up to snuff for that type of weight.

I did a lot of research and talked with a lot of pro's and I was told that the power is more than enough it is the braking power that I didnt have. I have a F350 and from what I have been told it can pull a house, the problem is stopping the house.

How often are you changing your brakes? Have you upgraded your brakes?

These would be my two biggest concerns with all the research and talks that I have had.

Good luck and safe travels.


We are in the process of upgrading the braking system on our 3612 from the electric brakes to disc brakes. DH also felt that the braking system on our 1 ton dually isn't adequate. I do suppose that it depends on where you live, and where you are driving, but is seems that here in So. Cal, there are a multitude of AH's that love to dart in front of you, and think you can stop on a dime.


Posted By: duggram on 03/10/07 06:47am

RACES5W, I was going up not down when I jackknifed and I had the Jacobs brake installed at the selling dealer so that it is covered on the factory warranty. Actually the brake was very useful (it always is) coming down icy grades in 4X4 and using the trailer brakes, i always felt in control. But thanks for the tip anyway.


Posted By: duggram on 03/09/07 10:18pm

WeightPolice wrote:

haha reminds me of when we were buying our 5th wheel the salesman was trying to push us to buy an auto sliding hitch. his main point was "well if you end up in a jacknife situation on the freeway or something, it will break your back window" lol i think if i jacknife my trailer going 60 i have way bigger problems to worrie about then my back window smashing in! haha sorry pretty off topic


I jackknifed my 5er last week on a ice/snow packed hill while going over 50. A few days ago I completed my trip from Alaska to New Mexico. Coming into Watson Lake, YT I got lazy and didn't shift into 4X4 and 5th gear on a hill. I was getting good traction (it was better than -30) in 2X4 and I thought I could inch over the hill in 6th by backing off on the throttle a little. Sure enough the the rear wheels broke loose and before I could react the pickup was getting sideways enough for the trailer to smack the cab. I drive a quad cab short bed.

Definitely a humbling experience. I didn't get lazy again the rest of the trip. The back window didn't brake and the dent in the cab looks pretty simple for a body shop, I hope. Sorry, couldn't resist posting off topic too.


Posted By: rocmoc on 03/06/07 08:06pm

Pulled our 3612 with our Dodge 2500 Diesel 4X4 a total 11,000 miles this year. Just got home from the last trip which was 3,000 miles in Mexico. The states are nothing compared to the pulling in Mexico. NOT a problem with the RAM including brakes. Averaged 14.2 mpg on the last trip. In some places south of the border you are not allowed to take a dually pickup into town.


rocmoc n Southern AZ/Mexico



Posted By: rocmoc on 03/12/07 08:09pm

I have pulled our 3612 thu San Diego, LA, SF, Vegas and Phoenix. Nothing compares to Guadalajara, Mexico traffic. I also pulled thu a canyon outside of Guadalajara that makes the Grape Vine or the Hoover Dam crossing look like bumps in the the Road. Never a problem with the Brakes or Power. Don't over drive the traffic or road and a Stock Diesel Dodge Ram will do everything you want, 2500 or 3500. AND we got 14.2 mpg for a 3,100 mile trip.


Posted By: badraptor on 03/11/07 11:14pm

We tow our 3018tt model with an 06 chev 2500hd duramax/allison and dont have any trouble.


Posted By: Decay on 08/23/07 08:12am

When we traded our WW 22FB for our Raptor 3319 I had a 03 Dodge CTD 4x4 stock, It pulled and stopped our Raptor just fine, keep in mind this unit is the lighter of Raptor 5er models. I traded up for a 07 Dodge CTD 4x4 5.9 Dually as I found a great deal. Pulling the raptor now with the same ease as before but to me having the dually gives me piece of mind when fully loaded. As far as braking, I find that I fine tune the brake controller with each use as the contents/ weight varies as also the weather conditions. This is my second dually, first one 86 Ford crew, and never had a problem driving , parking and they were/are both every day drivers, you just need to use commen sense and you might have to walk alittle further when parking. By the way both Dodges were stock.


07 Dodge Dually Diesel 4wd
05 3319 Raptor
02 Lance 1121 with 96 Tracker/toad
84 VW Westie
08 Polaris RZR
02 HD FLHT Standard
05 KLR 650
1 Wife
2 Hounds


Posted By: mcdachal on 03/13/07 08:02am

I am real pleased with my 02 PSD. Pulls cood, stops good (So Far), rides good, and looks good.


Tow Vehicle: 2002 F-250, 7.3 PSD, CC, SB, 4x4, Air Bags,
Trailers: 12' Tandem Flat Bed, Tandem Boat, Raptor 3612DS
Toys:
Jacked up EZ Go Golf Cart, 22' Center Console Aquasport



Posted By: RACES5W on 03/10/07 02:00am

Anyone who owns a diesel TV needs to check out Bank's engine brake. It's not that expensive but worth its weight in gold on a steep grade!

Jeff

* This post was edited 03/10/07 02:08am by RACES5W *


RACES: Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service


Posted By: RACES5W on 03/09/07 09:51pm

Regardless of make, go diesel or V-10. Anything less and you will just be ripping the guts out of an otherwise perfectly good truck.

I just put the full Banks package onto my 02 Dodge 2500 Cummins 4x4. Dude... talk about more power! And I swear my milage is +25% easy, even pulling! It was the best $7K Iever spent!

BTW... Check out the article on the new low sulfer diesel fuel in the Feb. 07 Trailer Life magazine. It's vital need to know information for anyone looking at buying a new truck for towing!

Jeff


Posted By: lincster on 08/30/07 02:36pm

billandkim wrote:

As far as people saying the brakes are the same between a 3/4 and a 1 ton DRW, that is not true on the dodges. The dodges have bigger pistons or calipers on the rear brakes on the DRW's. Not sure on the front. The DRW axle is also gussetted more than the SRW. It has two thick gussets instead of one. Much stronger. People ask, why the tow boss. Well stopping isnt everything. Accelerating is some. Your truck with 3.73's will pull it fine, but will the 4.33 towboss pull it better? Yes. Plus your truck and your tranny will thank you for it. The tranny will last longer on the towboss. Less stress. Also, you blow a tire on the rear of a dually and you still will be able to keep control. SRW may be a problem. I have a 3712 raptor. I had a 02 3/4 ton and pulled it for one year. I now have an 07 dually and it pulls ten times better. Much more stable. I bought the truck for the camper. The 3/4 pulled it fine, didnt like corners. Anyone that says you dont need a dually to pull well over your max weight has not pulled a 16 or 17k camper with a dually. Buddy has an 05 3/4 with airbags and he pulls a 40ft toyhauler. Well one weekend I couldnt go and he wanted to try my truck just to see the difference. Well, he cant afford a new truck YET, but the difference is huge and he is going to look for a used 05 dually around permanent dividend time.





Posted By: Evileyes on 10/13/07 09:16pm

Pull it all day long with no problems. I go up hills pass the diesels who are over heated and slow. 8 to 9 mpg constantly at 60mph.


Posted By: Evileyes on 10/13/07 09:18pm

F250 8 inch lift 37 inch tires on 18's. 4:56 gears stock V10 except for intake and exhaust. Oh I did change out tranny pans to give me more fluid so it would run cooler. Truck pulls like it should with no problems or power loss. I go up the mountain coming back from the upper Ocotillo by the salt and city. GO through borago springs and up the the big mountain. This summer 115 degrees, no problem with anything and did this a number of times. I would not change anything on the truck. Stay gas and you won't have any problems. Go diesel and try to pull like I do and probably will over heat. I know there are some of you who have had no problems but, lately it seems I only see diesel trucks pulled over. Oh and you Chevy and Dodge fans I have seen them as well. Not starting anything here just stating what I see. We go to the desert all year round. I don't just go during the winter. (Crazy I guess) Any ways I took my truck into my local ford store to have it serviced because I have the lifetime oil change for free thing. Any ways, I went into the service shop and I could not believe how many diesel trucks were in there. Only one was in there for an oil change the rest for problems. I hope ford fixed there trucks with this new 6.4 engine. But for now I will stay with my V10.


Posted By: EricBu12 on 08/28/07 11:12am

Of all the replies here, there are only a couple of people that has related to having and Exhaust brake. There are alot of different models out there for all the diesels and this has helped me on my 3/4 ton for stopping..

I have a 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 HO 4x4 Shortbed.
I have disc all around and the front is slotted with carbon kevlar pads. there is also another device that aids in stopping power called brake smart.

www.brakesmart.com

I have the 3612 Raptor and I also tow a 2nd utility trailer with a Yamaha Rhino behind it. I have 19.5" F rated commercial tires and forged aluminum Rims. I have a helper spring from roadmaster, and I have 400 rwhp on my cummins 5.9... I also have the Jacobs E-brake which helps stop this beast

Steer is 4500#
Drive is 6400# (tires are rated for 4080# each at 95 psi)
Trailer is at 13,400
and utility is 2400

Total 26,700# !!

New addition is the new pinbox I did yesterday.. see it here

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forum........um/189023-5th-airborne-install-pics.html


2001 QC 2500 4x4 bronze W/two tone Driftwood, 24valve HO 6sp. Edge EZ, LED Lights, 19.5" tires, Name of rig is "giddy-up go"
E-mail ericbu123@aol.com

2005 Keystone Raptor 36' 5th-wheel toyhauler. Has a garage that is separate from the living area.



Posted By: reactancexl on 08/30/07 09:51pm

I had a 2500 pulling a 3814ss. Someone wanted that truck more than I did so I bought a 3500 mega cab. Have not pulled anything yet. Can't wait to see if there is any difference.


Posted By: gouldc on 08/24/07 07:58am

I will admit that I'm not up to speed with the older vehicles. I'll also admit I've never seen a 3/4 ton with a frame split in two from pulling too much weight. I guess the bottom line is use what you are comfortable with. If an MDT to pull your tent trailer makes you comfortable go for it and on the flip side, if you're comfortable pulling a TH with a pinto giver. I just hope the realization that one's chosen truck is inadequate doesn't come to light in a panic situation.

The big difference with your situation is you knew of the areas that needed to be addressed and did so. I'm sure there are others that would leave it completely stock.

BTW wyattgp, I'd love to see your truck. Sounds like a beast. If there's one thing I can't stand about latest generation diesels it's that mods are a no-no.


Posted By: gouldc on 08/29/07 07:59am

pupeperson wrote:

The point I'm trying to make is that a stock 2500 SRW won't do the work of a stock 3500 DRW. But 2500's can be engineered to do far more work than their door stickers indicate w/o overloading anything.


That's the key right there. However, at what point does the cost involved in prepping a 3/4 ton to carry the weight out-weigh the trade in on a 1 ton dually that is capable off the lot? If you don't like the dually or have a special bond with your existing truck great, if not it just doesn't seem like the economical choice.


Posted By: gouldc on 08/23/07 02:06pm

What has to be remembered is there's a lot more to a truck and it's towing capabilities than the drivetrain. Yup, you've done some suspension mods but what about the brakes, tires, axles, diffs and frame for that matter? Keep in mind that a LOT has changed in 5 years.


Posted By: agteacher on 10/15/07 07:00am

I don't have a Raptor, but we seriously considered one before buying our Weekend Warrior. The weights of the Raptor, Next Level, and WW SLC are all about the same. The Dodge 2500 can handle the weight of an unloaded toyhauler (12500 pounds), but the medium duty truck that we bought does much better. We don't get the side movement due to wind, the combination stops in less distance, and the ride is much less jerky. When we were looking at trucks, we considered a new dual wheel one ton truck or a used medium duty.

We decided that we did not want to go over the weight rating of the truck to tow the hauler. Our insurance agent told us that if we were in an accident and the weight exceeded the rating, they would not cover anything. So now instead of paying $400.00/six months ($36,000 limit) just for the hauler, we are paying $850.00/year for the hauler ($50,000 limit) and the truck ($50,000 limit) with insurance through an rv insurer.

Ultimately, the decision is yours. I would encourage you to look at all of the aspects. We bought the toy hauler because we got a really good deal (30%+ off list), but it spent the first year and a half sitting on a permanent site with only a couple of small trips. We used it like a camper that we could visit anytime we wanted. Since getting the medium duty truck, we are constantly towing the hauler. In fact, it has only been on the permanent lot one weekend since April. We have been camping almost every weekend.

Once we decided to look at medium duty trucks, it took us a year to find a good used medium duty truck. If you keep your eyes open, you can find one at a good price. Our truck was originally a 19' rollback. The seller kept the rolback and we shortened the frame 4', moved the rear axle 4', and put a new bed with hitch on it. We made the hitch removable so that we can use the flat dump bed for hauling gravel, mulch, etc. When the bed is used for towing, there are pins in addition to the cylinders that hold the bed to the frame in the front. Instead of $50,000+ to buy a new truck, we have $21,000 in the truck and all of the modifications.

Incidently, the main reason we didn't buy a Raptor was the layout. We wanted an open floor plan and at the time Raptors were only available with the garage.

There's my two cents on the towing issue.


camping buddies - my husband,
13 yr boy,14 yr girl,16 yr girl
American Eskimos - Ginger and Sugar
01 International 4700
99 Dodge 2500 Quad Long Bed,Cummins,Rhino Liner
06 WW SLC 3505
48 Ford 8N was a rustbucket
52 Ford 8N w/ Sherman 54B HydroHoe




Posted By: rcchallenger on 08/31/07 01:18pm

Smithroyal wrote:

Pretty hot topic! Talking about 3/4 tons vs. 1 tons. Ford vs. Chev vs. Dodge. Singles vs. Dullys. Kinda like talking Religon, or Politics; creationism vs. evolution, Demos vs. Rupublicans. A man will stand behing his TRUCK!!

I do own a Rappy. Or at least co-own one with my Credit Union.
Two years ago I picked up my new 3612. Not at all worried about my truck; Chev 1 ton, SRW, big block 454 gas with a 4sp manual. A Man's truck.
Well.... on the 20min drive home I started wondering.... think they would take mobydick here back and let me have something smaller to take home... and give some of my money back?? Yah... like that'll happen!! I knew right away, I don't have enough truck!! I used to pull a 24'TT just fine but this Raptor just bullied my truck.

Well, I tried to make the best of it. The truck sagged so I put on helper springs. The truck overheated so I replaced the radiator with a 5 row radiator & new water pump. The clutch went, new heavy duty clutch. I was looking at a splitter when I finally realized what I knew in the 1st 20min of Rappy ownership, I don't have enough truck.

My not quite/ almost new TV is now an 03 Ford 1 ton dully diesel, 6sp manual. Big difference! BIG!!! Call it tires, call it suspension, the dully wheels, diesel power, call it anything you want to. I call it a big difference.


Of course, the most important move was going from Chevy to Ford. A wise decision indeed.

To all of you Chevy guys...just kidding!!!!! Please don't flame me!!! I'm not partial to any brand.


Posted By: rcchallenger on 08/30/07 11:38am

KF6PLH wrote:

I do not own a Raptor but my experience with an F250 were bad enough that I upgraded to a 450. I took my TH on several long trips and would have to watch the trans temp all the time, several times I had to pull over and let it cool down before continuing. This made me feel like I was killing the truck.

I never had a problem stopping the truck but then I never went over 60MPH. Now I would not have a problem with going 70.


What year was your F250? My trans never gets hot towing my Raptor with our 05 F350 / Torqshift.


Posted By: wyattgp on 08/23/07 01:48pm

I have a small Raptor (RP 299, 30ft) that I pull with a 02 Dodge 2500 long bed 4x4 that has the CTD with the Edge chip/controller, gauge package, ATS 4 inch exhaust, cold air intake kit, airbags, Rancho 9000, 6-speed manual, camper/heavy duty tow option. Im a bit over 14K fully loaded and I don't even know the trailer is back their until I get into the mountains and even then I'm pulling the grapevine in 4th gear with 900 F turbo temp and 12-15lbs of boost max. With my set up, I would have no benefit going to a 1 ton or even a ton and a half. The engine would be no stronger and with my bags, shocks, over load springs, heavy duty tow package, my truck is more than adequate for this weight. Let the flames begin!!!


Posted By: wyattgp on 08/23/07 05:38pm

Good point gouldc. However, if you get a chance, take a look at the undercarriage of a 02 (last year of the older body style) dodge 2500 CTD 4x4 and compare that with any other 1 ton you see DRW or SRW. Absolutely the same undercarriage (axles, breaks, etc) as a 1 ton Dodge and I would bet money that it would be very similar to the chevy and ford 1 ton's. The break issue is easily modified. You are correct in your point regarding these issues. My point however is simply this; if you have a modern 3/4 ton diesel truck, that is a few yrs old, you can easily mod the truck to be just as capable as a 1 ton without having to go buy a 50K truck. In other words, don't fall into the marketing trap that just because you see "3500" on the side of the fender or tail gate that you have something greatly different in capability than a 3/4. Notice I said greatly. Notice that I also am using in my example a truck you already have. Of course I'm not suggesting that buying a new 2500 and paying for the modifications will get you a 1 ton cheaper than just buying a new 1 ton.


Posted By: wyattgp on 08/24/07 02:00pm

Another excellent point gouldc. I'll take a few pictures this weekend and post of both the truck and trailer. Have a good one!


Posted By: mikeyairtime on 08/23/07 02:26pm

gouldc, go back to the beginning and read the whole thread, it's all been covered.


Posted By: HavaRaptor on 08/30/07 12:40pm

rcchallenger wrote:

KF6PLH wrote:

I do not own a Raptor but my experience with an F250 were bad enough that I upgraded to a 450. I took my TH on several long trips and would have to watch the trans temp all the time, several times I had to pull over and let it cool down before continuing. This made me feel like I was killing the truck.

I never had a problem stopping the truck but then I never went over 60MPH. Now I would not have a problem with going 70.


What year was your F250? My trans never gets hot towing my Raptor with our 05 F350 / Torqshift.


I had a 03 F350 and it got REAL hot. Just purchased an 08 but haven't installed a hitch yet. As soon as the KW sells we will once again be pulling with a Pick up...Oh well


Posted By: K6DKO on 08/31/07 11:19am

rcchallenger wrote:

KF6PLH wrote:

I do not own a Raptor but my experience with an F250 were bad enough that I upgraded to a 450. I took my TH on several long trips and would have to watch the trans temp all the time, several times I had to pull over and let it cool down before continuing. This made me feel like I was killing the truck.

I never had a problem stopping the truck but then I never went over 60MPH. Now I would not have a problem with going 70.


What year was your F250? My trans never gets hot towing my Raptor with our 05 F350 / Torqshift.
It was an 02


2008 Ford F450 Lariat 4X4 LOADED
2007 Weekend Warrior CR3705
2008 KTM 450 EXC-R Plated
2003 Jeep Rubicon O||||O
UPS Feeder Driver
Ham call sign K6DKO
Formerly KF6PLH



Posted By: K6DKO on 08/30/07 11:16am

I do not own a Raptor but my experience with an F250 were bad enough that I upgraded to a 450. I took my TH on several long trips and would have to watch the trans temp all the time, several times I had to pull over and let it cool down before continuing. This made me feel like I was killing the truck.

I never had a problem stopping the truck but then I never went over 60MPH. Now I would not have a problem with going 70.


Posted By: a93fxdwg on 10/14/07 06:16am

I have a 2002 f-350 crewcab. I also wanted a raptor 5er. After a lot of reading on the weight issue etc, I decided to go with the Towable raptor. So I bought a 3018TT. I used my trucks manual as a guide to the weight limits. I didnt want to ruin my truck, tranny etc by pulling something that is so overweight. The 3018TT weighs in a 13k all loaded up. that was the limit my truck manual stated. I also upgraded my truck with a tuner, exhaust, air intake, valve body to make it a little better towing. I also like the 3018 because i can fit 4 harleys in the storage as compared to the 5 er. and it pulls very nice. just my 2 cents. Jeff






Posted By: a93fxdwg on 10/14/07 06:22am

those diesel trucks you see pulled over are the newer ford problem child. Thats why i purchased a 7.3 diesel. Its been proven for many years. There are still many 7.3 diesels out there to get too. But once you go diesel youll never go back. I had gassers all my life. Diesels can out pull a gasser anyday. The new ford tow boss dually can pull 24 k. I dont think there is a gasser out there that can do that. Oh and I also get 20 mpg highway when not pulling. Cant beat that... My brother has 400k on his 2001 7.3. No issues. I think the problems you see now witht he diesels are the new motors, its always a learning curve with a new one. Thats why i go with the older ones, all the bugs are worked out.. Jeff


Posted By: THN522 on 09/01/07 10:48am

Before we bought our 3712 Raptor we had a 28' pull behind toy box, loaded with 4 quads and stuff for a week in the desert it was a handful driving. Swaying & bucking was the main problem. Had the weight,sway hitch. Same load with the Raptor and it pulls so nice. Even in major wind truck and trailer stays straight and true. You have to 4sure have 10 ply's on your truck. I've been using the Toyo Mt's. If you stay with 16" wheel's on truck your tire ratings will be higher that same tire with a larger wheel. Make sure your wheel is rated more than tire too. Steel stems will also be a must.
I use a 20k slider and prodigy controller, Firestone air bags at about 17-20 psi.
This is not going to be my forever TV, I'm going to look next year for a 450 class truck.


04 GMC 2500 HD 4x4 Diesel 4 Door
07 Raptor 3712 TS 5th Wheel
05 Yamaha 660 Raptor
04 Yamaha 660 Raptor
03 Kawasaki KFX 400
04 Yamaha YFZ 450



Posted By: tbusciglio on 08/29/07 09:05pm

gouldc wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken, there's quite a difference between the SRW and DRW, at least as far as the rear end is concerned, a beefier axle being one of them. A lot more than just tires and springs.


Chevy only has 3 axles for thier trucks.

1) 1500's get their own axle
2) 2500HD's, 1500HD's, 3500 SRW's, 3500 Chasis Cab DRW's use the same axle
3) 3500 DRW's get basicly the same axle as (2) except 8" wider

IIRC the (2) & (3) axles are both rated for 11,500 pounds.
3500's have a different springpack that is longer eye to eye, hence only LB's in the 3500's.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.






Posted By: pupeperson on 08/29/07 10:39am

It's more economical to buy the dually off the lot in the first place if a dually is what you want. But, if you already have a relatively new SRW and don't want to take the hit on the depreciation, or a dually doesn't fit with the other things you want to do with your truck, besides tow heavy, then the SRW, (2500 or 3500 making little difference) can be made to safely do the job. Is it cheap? Nope. Tires and wheels alone run close to $3,000.00 (set of 5) but then you have them, that can transfer from truck to truck if desired.


Posted By: pupeperson on 08/28/07 06:57pm

I too pull a heavy trailer w/ a 2500 CTD Quadcab Dodge. While not a Raptor, it's got 3 axles, is 39'10" long, 13'4" tall at the A/C's and loaded weighs about 17,000 lbs.

I made several changes to the truck to make it safe to do this: Air Bags, PRXB Exhaust brake, 19.5" "G"s, 5,000 lb rated wheels, Bilstein Shocks, upgraded brake pads, traction bars, 75-140 synthetic gear lube in rear axle among others. Anyway, the truck handles the trailer with aplomb. No troubles at all, unless you count the clutch wanting to slip a bit if I get too heavy in the throttle below 2,000 rpms at low altitude. At higher rpm's, or higher altitudes, no problem at all.

Out on the open road it's just set the cruise and enjoy the ride. It could hardly be any more stress free. In traffic, it's just like any other big rig (I normally drive an 18 wheeler w/ 53' trailer) and requires its' space. It doesn't accelerate, brake, turn or ride like a car and I don't expect it to. It does all those things like a truck, though, and not an overloaded one either. It's licensed for the weight I haul with it as well.

The point I'm trying to make is that a stock 2500 SRW won't do the work of a stock 3500 DRW. But 2500's can be engineered to do far more work than their door stickers indicate w/o overloading anything. The principal componentry, (aside from the obvious 2 tires/wheels and a single overload leaf) is identical between the two series anyway. The other items can be upgraded with aftermarket parts to make the 2500 series trucks perform in many ways even better than a stock dually. I know, it still doesn't change the door sticker. But, the door sticker doesn't do anything anyway -- it just sticks there, stuck you might say.


Posted By: billandkim on 08/30/07 12:55pm

As far as people saying the brakes are the same between a 3/4 and a 1 ton DRW, that is not true on the dodges. The dodges have bigger pistons or calipers on the rear brakes on the DRW's. Not sure on the front. The DRW axle is also gussetted more than the SRW. It has two thick gussets instead of one. Much stronger. People ask, why the tow boss. Well stopping isnt everything. Accelerating is some. Your truck with 3.73's will pull it fine, but will the 4.33 towboss pull it better? Yes. Plus your truck and your tranny will thank you for it. The tranny will last longer on the towboss. Less stress. Also, you blow a tire on the rear of a dually and you still will be able to keep control. SRW may be a problem. I have a 3712 raptor. I had a 02 3/4 ton and pulled it for one year. I now have an 07 dually and it pulls ten times better. Much more stable. I bought the truck for the camper. The 3/4 pulled it fine, didnt like corners. Anyone that says you dont need a dually to pull well over your max weight has not pulled a 16 or 17k camper with a dually. Buddy has an 05 3/4 with airbags and he pulls a 40ft toyhauler. Well one weekend I couldnt go and he wanted to try my truck just to see the difference. Well, he cant afford a new truck YET, but the difference is huge and he is going to look for a used 05 dually around permanent dividend time.


Posted By: Radartech on 08/29/07 12:05pm

I already had decided I wanted rim's for the truck before we decided to get the camper. Put on 18's instead of the 16's. Lucky for me the store insisted I get E rated tire's cause even though regular tire's work they have weak sidewall's for the diesel weight. Got Goodyear wrangler's that handle 3600 pound's at 80 PSI. Then had to check rim's cause didn't think of that before, and found out there rated at 3450 so got lucky as only wanted them for summer tire's as put original's on to go snowmobiling as the thinner tire's are better in the snow.


2010 Dodge 3500 DRW 6.7 Cummins
08 362 Fuzion
03 1800 VTX
07 1100 V-STAR her's


Posted By: Smithroyal on 08/31/07 01:12pm

Pretty hot topic! Talking about 3/4 tons vs. 1 tons. Ford vs. Chev vs. Dodge. Singles vs. Dullys. Kinda like talking Religon, or Politics; creationism vs. evolution, Demos vs. Rupublicans. A man will stand behing his TRUCK!!

I do own a Rappy. Or at least co-own one with my Credit Union.
Two years ago I picked up my new 3612. Not at all worried about my truck; Chev 1 ton, SRW, big block 454 gas with a 4sp manual. A Man's truck.
Well.... on the 20min drive home I started wondering.... think they would take mobydick here back and let me have something smaller to take home... and give some of my money back?? Yah... like that'll happen!! I knew right away, I don't have enough truck!! I used to pull a 24'TT just fine but this Raptor just bullied my truck.

Well, I tried to make the best of it. The truck sagged so I put on helper springs. The truck overheated so I replaced the radiator with a 5 row radiator & new water pump. The clutch went, new heavy duty clutch. I was looking at a splitter when I finally realized what I knew in the 1st 20min of Rappy ownership, I don't have enough truck.

My not quite/ almost new TV is now an 03 Ford 1 ton dully diesel, 6sp manual. Big difference! BIG!!! Call it tires, call it suspension, the dully wheels, diesel power, call it anything you want to. I call it a big difference.


Posted By: Dagwood_55 on 10/14/07 06:39pm

I have a '04 Ford 550 4x4,6.0, flatbed with 4.88's for a worktruck.

I also have a '06 GMC 2500 Duramax/Allison 4x4, 4dr with 3.73's (I think)

Pulling the same 5th wheel flatbed with 12,000 payload, 18,600 gross, my Jimmy will outpull, outhaul the Ford and get better gas MPG doing it. On a certain hill on I-540 going to Fayetteville, the GMC will top the hill at 5 to 10MPH faster than the Ford. And I really can't tell the Ford is more stable with the duels on it.

FWIW......


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