Doug,
Hey, I was going to build that! It's good to see it other than in my fantasy . You have thought about this a lot, not to mention the cash-echtomy.
Great to see it come to fruition.
Some querries:
Are all the hang-on parts (storage boxes) attached in the same triangulation as the TC to the frame?
Are not locking differentials available for those Fuso axles? Most of the German/Euro expedition vehicles have selectable lockers, front and rear.
I would recommend taking only a second spare tire, not mounted to save weight. You can always get it mounted wherever you go. Speaking of tires, be sure to take a full box of "Safety Seal" tire plugs/kit. I've used at least 50 plugs on Jeep/truck tires over the years. It's nice to be able to fix most flats without removing the wheel from the truck.
I look forward to a travellog of your adventures.
regards, as always, jefe
'01.5 Dodge 3/4T, CTD, HO, Qcab, SB, 4x4, 6spd, D60, D80+Pwr Loc,
camper&tow pkg,Titan V, 285/75R-16 frnt, 33/14.5 Nitto super singles rr,
Rancho 9K's, Warn M15K winch. tows Jeep CJ8 rock crawler on 14' trailer
'98 Lance Squire Lite 165s, 8' 6" X Cab
BradW wrote: Question: What is meant by pivot frame?
This is the most asked question about the rig so I built a web page for it on our site. You can learn about 3 point pivot frames and see detailed photos of ours during its phases of construction and testing at:
jefe 4x4 wrote: Doug,
Hey, I was going to build that! It's good to see it other than in my fantasy . You have thought about this a lot, not to mention the cash-echtomy.
Great to see it come to fruition.
RE: Cash-echtomy
Yes, with what we ended up spending we could have had a lot of alternatives.
You could duplicate the basic concept for under $100k.
New FG chassis: ~$30k
New BF camper: ~$30k
Custom boxes, pivot frame, raw materials, fabrication: $10-30+k depending on your location and resources.
You'd be viable with that combination and a Honda genset or the stock optional LP genset and a couple of solar panels. You don't need all the hoo-haw we added.
If you are in the $100k range, that puts you into a valid 4x4 "go down just about any fire road and then get the bikes out" rig for a lot less money than many factory rigs that would desinigrate on that same road.
jefe 4x4 wrote: Some querries:
Are all the hang-on parts (storage boxes) attached in the same triangulation as the TC to the frame?
Everything painted white that is aft or rearward of the rear wall of the garage/front of the base of the BF TC is on the pivot frame. The pivot frame is rigidly attached to the FG truck frame at that point. Everything forward of the front edge of the base of the BF TC is rigidly attached to the FG frame. See http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-pivot-frame.htm for details.
jefe 4x4 wrote: Are not locking differentials available for those Fuso axles? Most of the German/Euro expedition vehicles have selectable lockers, front and rear.
Unfortunately, no. We found one company in Australia that makes a rear locker for the FG, but they do not make anything for the front. We're headed out for 4-6 weeks of break-in and testing in the SW USA. If we come back from that convinced we need them we'll see if we can get something custom made for a reasonable price.
jefe 4x4 wrote: I would recommend taking only a second spare tire, not mounted to save weight. You can always get it mounted wherever you go. .
That's a great suggestion. We're just beginning to throw stuff off the rig to reduce weight. You'll probably be able to find us by following the trail of ejected gear.
jefe 4x4 wrote: Speaking of tires, be sure to take a full box of "Safety Seal" tire plugs/kit. I've used at least 50 plugs on Jeep/truck tires over the years. It's nice to be able to fix most flats without removing the wheel from the truck.
We are carrying a plug kit. I agree on being able to fix a tire in place, especially an inner dually.
jefe 4x4 wrote: I look forward to a travellog of your adventures.
regards, as always, jefe
If you'd like to follow us around I will be posting regular updates, journals, photos, etc. on our main web site at: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/
BradW wrote: Center of gravity height: 58.92" / 149.657cm (estimated based on tilt test)
Question: Occasionally we have people ask how to estimate the vertical CG of their rigs. Can you give us some insight on how you performed the tilt test and arrived at your number?
My methodology for the lift was:
1. Locate and mark the horizontal centerline of front axle. This ensured I would always be using the loaded tire radius for the calculations. Since both tires are the same circumference, I didn’t have to worry about averaging those as you would on a race car set up for stagger.
2. When we lifted the front axle by driving it up on the tilt bed, I used the mark on the front axle and a laser level to obtain the lifted front axle centerline height of the loaded front tires.
3. I did not replace the shocks with solid bars to eliminate suspension height change, as this would have been impractical in my circumstances. I made no allowance for the compression of the rear suspension, the corresponding lift of the front suspension and the resulting weight transfer rearward.
4. I made no allowances for the shift of liquids in the tanks, specifically the fuel tanks, which are long and narrow. The estimated 185 lbs. of fuel in those tanks would have shifted towards the rear.
5. I only took one measurement and one weight at one height.
6. We used a moving company truck scale that allowed us to weigh each wheel, each side and each axle individually.
7. We used a tilt bed wrecker as a ramp to drive the front axle up to obtain the required front contact patch lift.
8. Total cost was $10 for all the weights (amazing!) and $75 for the wrecker.
Test conditions:
• Fuel tanks: ~25 gallons. The tanks are saddle tanks located under the garage along the frame rails. Equal amounts in both tanks via a crossover. There are no baffles, so this weight would have all shifted back. That’s 180 lbs @7.2 lbs/gallon.
• Raw water: ~35 gallons. The tank is mounted between the frame rails aft of the garage. No baffles. That’s 291.5 lbs. but since the tank was ~75% full there would have been minimal shifting.
• Fresh water: 33 gallons. The tank is mounted under the dinette, left side of camper centerline, aft of the rear axle. Full load, 100% full. That’s 266.56 lbs.
• Gray water: 0
• Black water: 0
• Front axle centerline, static: 14.375” / 365.13mm
• Front axle centerline, raised for test: 42.875” / 1,089.03mm
• Amount front axle centerline raised for test: 28.5” / 723.9mm
• Front contact patch elevation raised for test: 28.5” / 723.9mm
• Front track: 71.75" / 182.25cm
• Rear track: 79" / 200.66cm
• Wheelbase: 154" / 391.16cm
On the front axle lift amount, I had previously contacted the author of the Jeep spreadsheet and asked if I needed to go higher than 24” since our FG was a longer wheelbase. He responded that any higher lift would not significantly improve the accuracy of the model.
In summary, I did not use nearly enough process rigor for the tilt test to obtain a valid result. At a minimum I should have had full tanks and I now believe the only way to get an accurate test is to replace the shocks with bars to eliminate suspension travel.
Because we have a 3 point pivot frame, I believe the only way we will ever accurately know our left and right roll angle limits is to put the truck on a tilt table. I am currently seeking a resource to perform that test so we will have a definitive answer using empirical data.
Shots of the tilt test:
Doug
* This post was
edited 06/06/07 04:44pm by dhackney *
Note that this winch is one of three models Warn makes that require a base or "foot" mounting position. The line deploys and retracts through the "feet" of the winch.
An engineer from Warn emailed me with that requirement when he saw our mounts on the web site. We had mounted it with the "feet" down and had to re-mount and re-wire both winches. We are very fortunate that we learned this before we broke them both off the truck testing them under full load.
BradW wrote: Cool rig, but I strongly disagree with the following statement: “Project complete Sunday 3 June, 2007 ~8PM PDT / 0300 GMT / Zulu”. You know that projects like these are never really complete.
4SEASON wrote: Are there permanent mount steps or a ramp that come out for camper door access?
Standard RV aluminum folding scissor type steps. We currently store them collapsed in the garage when not deployed.
Here's a shot of them deployed on our test in Baja in November.
4SEASON wrote: What 3rd world countries and why?
We haven't been to South America yet, so we're heading there first. Aside from Hugo, it's the forgotten continent for most Americans, so we'd like to learn more about it. After a year or so there we plan to go to SE Asia, as we haven't been there either and would like to visit some friends who live there. Probably go back to the Himalayas, India, etc. after that. Don't know which way we'll go then. We haven't been to the Northern tier of Africa and we have a friend who lives in Egypt. We made a lot of friends in the Middle East when we were there on the bike in 2004, so we might go back through there. Iran if the politics have calmed down by then. Would love to return to Syria. Amazing people, incredibly welcoming. Certainly Turkey if we are in that area. Fantastic people and unbelievable history there.
If we end up in Turkey we'll probably go on over to Eastern Europe as we haven't been through there yet. We have lots of friends and family in Germany, so will stop there if we're in the neighborhood. That would certainly be the end of the run for developing economies.
4SEASON wrote: One thing I don't like is no way to start and drive away quickly (under attack emergency) while camped. This could be improved with a roof hatch in both the camper and cab. At least that way you don't have to go out the camper door and run around.
We spent a lot of time on that design requirement. We eventually traded a pass through for the garage. In our travels we've found the world outside the US to be very welcoming and a whole lot safer than a typical American city. All we hear about the outside world here is all the bad stuff. The rest of the world is full of very welcoming, very friendly and fun people. We just never hear about them.
This is too funny!! Dhackney i just took a picture of your rig a week or so ago in Carlsbad. We were at Rubios Fish Tacos off of El Camino Real and the 78 Fwy. Wife i were in total amazement! Awesome looking rig. This thing is impressive in person. We just got back from vacation and i was going to try and post the pic. No need to now.
2005 2500HD D/A
2006 Lance MAX 881 Loaded, Supersprings, Air Lift air bags, Vision type 81 wheels, Dunlop Sp-431 245/70/19.5 load range "H"
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How True!
