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Topic: Portable generators reviews - and thoughts anyone?

Posted By: TCBob on 07/12/07 11:32am

What is the current thinking on portable generators? Brands, make and modle, do's and dont's? I am starting to look and having a hard time locating good current reviews. Looking for quite and how big is enough? Quality and reasonable price is always a consideration.

We don't have a Gen Set compartment in my 2004 8.5 SC S&S (one of the compromises for length) Have a new A/C unit I want to run boon docking from time to time (when no one else is around - ).

New here, and could not find a topic specifically on this. Did I miss something?


2004 S&S 8.5 SC Ponderosa
1999 Ford F-350 4X4 7.3-PSD DRW



Posted By: brain on 07/12/07 11:42am

It depends greatly on the size of the AC unit. For 13.5K+, you'll want 2500 watts or more. That implies a 3000 class genset, or 2 2000s in a chained arrangement. For the smaller 9K and 8K units, I think a single 2000 class genset will do the job.

As for me, I have a KIPOR 3500Ti for our OK117DBL, and it works fine with my 13.5K AC. The genset has worked fine for us, though we're not heavy boondockers. If you are or plan to, then I would probably recommend a Honda or Yamaha, unless you're handle with small engines, which I am.

Jim


Posted By: EricCO on 07/12/07 01:04pm

The size difference between the Yamaha 2400 and the Honda 2000 was the deal sealer for me. I ended up getting the Honda as it is easier to carry for one person at 40ish pounds compared to Yamahas 70 lbs. It also fits in my cabinet inside the camper as the Yamaha did not as easily.


2002 Ford F-350 CC LB PSD
2007 Travel Lite 960rx Ultra
2009 Lund 208 Pro-V GL with 250 hp Verado



Posted By: DaCarmack on 07/12/07 01:25pm

I have a Yamaha ef2800i it will run a 13500btu a/c and a 15000btu a/c, not at the same time.
I'm sure it is a little louder then a Yamaha 2400, but it weights less
has more rated power, hold more gas, and I don't want to carry 2 gen sets around. I got mine from http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/

I don't have the gas tank on mine any more, it runs only on LPG and natural gas. I've had no complaints about it.

Doug


Class A CDL With X T and M1
2005 Honda TRX 400 ATV
1983 Honda 185s ATC


Posted By: Testudo on 07/12/07 11:45am

Lots of information and opinions on this subject. Just use "Advanced Search".

Basically, for your own sanity as well as that of others, pay the money and get a four-cyle engine, inverter generator. Cheap contractor generators will work but you won't win friends and influence people.

I recommend getting at least a 2,000 watt generator. Smaller ones can be found but you are already putting down a lot of money and you don't have much to show for the smaller generator. A 2,000 watt generator can run any single corded appliance in your home.


Testudo & Princesse Caribou
2012 FORD F-250 6.2L 4x4 EC SB SRW
2006 FORD F-250 5.4L manual trans (Sniff! Gone but not forgotten!)
2006 OUTFITTER SUPER-Caribou 6.5


Posted By: joec on 07/12/07 12:54pm

Another vote for getting a good generator, Yamaha and Honda both make fine units. I went with the 2400 inverter Yamaha and have been very happy with it.

I boonbock 95% of the time and this generator will run any one item on the camper. Take your camper to a Honda and Yamaha dealer and run the units on your camper. I liked the way the Yamaha handled the load better.

If you are planing to camp at higher elevations you can expect the generator to lose about 2% of its power for each 1000 feet of elevation so plan ahead for this.


2006 F-350 PSD DRW - 2004 Eagle Cap 950 - Rancho 9000s - Ride Rites and "Homemade Super Bump Stops"



Posted By: purplepossum on 07/12/07 01:56pm

One wrinkle in the formula is appliance compatibility to the generator. I bought a Honda 3000 to power my used TT last August, only to find that my Black and Decker under the cabinet coffemaker wouldn't work. Had to buy another brand coffemaker that would work with it.

That Black and Decker Coffee maker is now installed in a new class C I bought and works just fine. The class C has a Onan generator. I don't fully understand what that difference is, something to do with sine wave??????


Posted By: Seacraft Skipper on 07/12/07 03:10pm

I'm surprised that more people haven't chimed in pushing the Honda EU2000i. I think it is the most popular unit going. It has a little less power that the Yamaha but the foot print is smaller, it is very light, fits in the Gen Ready box on a Lance Lite 915 and other models I'm told, two of them can be chained together for more power, dealers service coast to coast and north to south. Mine ran over night in the fall up in Maine for the heater. The negatives are, it is a little more expensive initially, will run the Coleman Polar cub fine but you have to switch the refer to propane, won't run a 15000btu or with difficulty an 11500btu AC. It is pretty quiet which is important in a CG unless you want stones thrown at you, fine boondocking. I really like mine. they also have a 3000 and a 1000, the 3000 is too heavy, over 100 lbs, won't fine in the storage area. The 1000 just doesn't have enough power. That's it all I know about the Honda Generators. I'll be as this goes on a lot more will jump in on features of this unit. Good luck.
Bob


Seacraft Skipper
"Semper Paratus"
2003 GMC 2500HD 4X4 ExCab L/b Air lift A/B.
2002 Lance Lite 915.
1972 20ft Seacraft Sport Fish.



Posted By: SCVJeff on 07/12/07 03:31pm

Another vote for the 2000 Honda if it suits your loads. Whatever you do, PLEASE look for the quiet, inverter type generators. Honda, Yamaha are excellent products, with Kipor (it seems) not far behind. Contractor generators do not belong in campgrounds, and probably lots of places when boondocking as well.

Now I'm gonna slip into my Nomex suit.


Jeff - WA6EQU
'06 Itasca Meridian 34H, CAT C7/350



Posted By: FishPOET on 07/12/07 04:45pm

I run a Honda 2000 as well. The contractor generators do not come with spark arrestors and you can be fined using one on any US Forest.


Posted By: 280fx on 07/12/07 05:01pm

We're happy with the Honda 2000, it works well with the Polar Cub.


Dean and Liliana
2008 Ford F-450 Lariat Super Duty 6.4 Powerstroke
2009 Host Everest Triple Slide



Posted By: eddd on 07/12/07 05:29pm

I bought a new Honda 2000 and a new Coleman Polar Cub 8000 BTU...both for less than a Yamaha 2400. IMHO this is THE set-up for a truck camper.


2002 Chevy HD2500 4x4 ExtCab LWB D/A
2002 KZ Sportsman Toyhauler
1999 Suzuki DR650
2006 Yamaha FJR1300
2007 Ducati 695 Monster
1986 Honda XL250R
2012 Fuji Absolute
2004 Cannondale F600


Posted By: 2oldman on 07/12/07 05:31pm

Honda vs Yamaha

Chinese gens

Kipor v Honda

Why not cheaper for my needs?

Yamaha EF2400iS--will it run a 13500 air?

Honda 2k 13k btu test


Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 07/12/07 09:52pm

I have two H2000i's. This gives me the flexibility to bring both, one or none depending on my needs. It also allows for me to use them at different places, say one for the house and the other for the TC during a power outage. It is also MUCH easier to move/store two H2000's then it is a single H3000.

As long as you get one that has the load capacity to fit your needs then any of the inverter gensets from Honda or Yamaha and possibly Robin/Subaru will keep you and your neighbors from going insane due to the racket. Honda and Yamaha both have large dealer networks that facilitate repairs/service if needed.

I would avoid the Chinese knockoffs since the places that sell them seem to disappear as soon as their initial inventory is gone so good luck trying to get a problem taken care of. Also the prices on these have climbed to where for not much more you can go with the known quality of the name brands.


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91 Jamboree 21' ClassC sold


Posted By: TCBob on 07/12/07 10:42pm

Thank you for all the reply's. Hope they keep coming. Your various comments helped me find some of the right questions to ask so to speak!

I dug a little and find I have a Duo-Therm "579 series Brisk Air" by Dometic. The manufacturer's docs say it is an 11,000 BTU unit, they have all kinds of amp ratings, but the telling number is their recommendation is a "Minimum Generator size" of 2.5 KW....so looks like that is my min. From the comments I am thinking in the 2.5 to 3 KW size.

My RV Dealer is selling the Kipor had never heard of them before starting this post. They tell me it is essentially the same unit as Honda, originally with a different color, now with some other modifications. Is that correct? I like the idea of Honda or Yahama for service and parts options. Seems like Honda is out there even more than anyone else in these units.

Again I don't have a Generator compartment in my camper, so I guess it means lifting it in and out of the walkway. Where do you other guys with 8 and 8.5 length campers keep you units?

More thoughts now that I dug out the specifics for my A/C unit?

Thanks again for all the help.


Posted By: Seacraft Skipper on 07/13/07 07:06am

Even though they are kind of pricey, I think you would be better with 2- Honda 2000's than one 3000 as the 3000's are so heavey it will take two people to lift it. regards
Bob


Posted By: BradW on 07/13/07 08:34am

TCBob wrote:

My RV Dealer is selling the Kipor had never heard of them before starting this post. They tell me it is essentially the same unit as Honda, originally with a different color, now with some other modifications. Is that correct?

No, not even close. I would suggest a Honda or Yamaha. Both make quiet high quality units.

Brad


Wake Up America
1996 Lance 500 and 2006 F-350 PSD 4X4 DRW
Our Truck Camper Photos



Posted By: Jeff3161 on 07/13/07 09:20am

Your best bet is to stuck with the Honda or the Yamaha models. Though my BnL has a Kipor the 2k model with over 200 hours on it and it still runs fine. He has had it for about two years uses mostly in the winter but also for summer camping. I was going to buy the Honda 2000 at the time the best price was about $875 -900, then I saw a "hunter's special" on the Yamaha EF2400i for $1025. So I thought the extra power for $150 bucks would be better. So far no complaints with the unit it does what I need runs the AC 11Kbtu. I use mine mostly in winter so it goes into my enclosed trailer when hauling it. It will fit in the camper but must be stored it the entry. If I did it again I would get the Honda #1 because it is lighter, #2 because it would just squeak into my storage compartment. For me I don't really need a generator to run the AC.
Either one is a good buy and even the Kipor would be a decent unit if $$ are tight I think they are running about $675.


Posted By: Conch Cruiser on 07/13/07 09:21am

TCBob ,
When I had a regular cab and an 8 foot camper, I carried my Honda 2000 in the camper under the dinette. That worked ok.

I have a super crew cab now, and I store it in the back seat.

You don't want to have to be lifting a Honda 3000. My father-in-law has one that he uses to run his TT. It stays in the back of the truck. It take two to lift it. I don't think it would fit in the back door of my 8 foot camper.

I would figure out if the Honda 2000 would run every thing first. If not, I would go with two Honda 2000 w/parallel kit.

Or Figure out a place to mount a Honda 3000. (front hitch bracket or etc.)


1999 Chevy 3500 SRW 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed
1996 Coachmen Ranger 100SD
Tork Lift Front Tie Downs
Happijac Rear Tie Downs
Ride Rite Air Bags
Polar Cub AC Model 9201a-776 8,300BTU
Honda EU2000i generator


Posted By: scottz on 07/13/07 12:15pm

I opted for a 3500watt/29.5AMP Chinese-made Honda Clone non-inverter generator for $289. Since its not inverter based its loudness is constant which makes it louder than a honda/yamaha at idle, but as quiet as a hoda/yamaha when powering A/C and/or Microwave.

Here is a link to the manufacturer


2004 Silverado 2500HD,LB,Gas,4x4,Air-Bags, Hypertech III, Rancho 9000X/XL, Michelin LTX MS2 265/75-16
2005 Lance1030, Happijac Tiedowns, Lifeline AGM Batteries, Yamaha EF2400iS Generator
2006 Tritontrailer ATV168 4pl, 2001 Kodiak, 2003 Trailblazer



Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 07/13/07 03:53pm

I'm getting one of the above, but the 1500watt Peak/1200watt Continous unit with the 2.4 hp OHV engine. According to the spec sheet it will run for 7 hrz on its 1.54 gallon fuel tank when at 50% load.

They're $199 right now, and I really only am going to be using it to run the A/C during the hot parts of the day when we need to be inside and if needed a battery charger so I can run on batteries for the rest of the time.

* This post was edited 07/13/07 04:03pm by JoeChiOhki *


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'1974 KIT Kamper 1106 - 11' Slide-in
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Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 07/13/07 09:01pm

scottz wrote:

I opted for a 3500watt/29.5AMP Chinese-made Honda Clone non-inverter generator for $289. Since its not inverter based its loudness is constant which makes it louder than a honda/yamaha at idle, but as quiet as a hoda/yamaha when powering A/C and/or Microwave.

Here is a link to the manufacturer
That is NOT a Honda clone it is just a cheap Chinese generator similar to all the rest of the cheap contractor grade ones.

The inverter part of a generator has nothing to do with its loudness it is simply a way to develop cleaner AC power. I would bet that the AC output of yours is about as dirty as it gets. Good for resistive loads (coffeepot, heater) but bad for things like microwaves and TV's and A/C's.

I am also going to call you on your "quiet as a Honda at full load". The Honda 3000 is rated at 58db at full load while your whatever is rated at 68db (and I doubt the accuracy) and that is close to 3 times as loud. I also believe (though I can't find it right now) that the Honda's noise level is rated at a closer distance then the 21' of the knockoff. Your neighbors aren't going to like you much but as long as you camp alone or where there is a lot of ambient noise already (dunes with quads running around) it will only be yourself that has to put up with the noise.

Much as people don't like to admit it, there actually are reasons the inverter Hondas/Yamahas cost so much more. It really is a case of you get what you pay for.


Posted By: scottz on 07/13/07 11:02pm

Steve_in_29 wrote:

scottz wrote:

I opted for a 3500watt/29.5AMP Chinese-made Honda Clone non-inverter generator for $289. Since its not inverter based its loudness is constant which makes it louder than a honda/yamaha at idle, but as quiet as a hoda/yamaha when powering A/C and/or Microwave.

Here is a link to the manufacturer
That is NOT a Honda clone it is just a cheap Chinese generator similar to all the rest of the cheap contractor grade ones.

The inverter part of a generator has nothing to do with its loudness it is simply a way to develop cleaner AC power. I would bet that the AC output of yours is about as dirty as it gets. Good for resistive loads (coffeepot, heater) but bad for things like microwaves and TV's and A/C's.

I am also going to call you on your "quiet as a Honda at full load". The Honda 3000 is rated at 58db at full load while your whatever is rated at 68db (and I doubt the accuracy) and that is close to 3 times as loud. I also believe (though I can't find it right now) that the Honda's noise level is rated at a closer distance then the 21' of the knockoff. Your neighbors aren't going to like you much but as long as you camp alone or where there is a lot of ambient noise already (dunes with quads running around) it will only be yourself that has to put up with the noise.

Much as people don't like to admit it, there actually are reasons the inverter Hondas/Yamahas cost so much more. It really is a case of you get what you pay for.


I respectfully disagree.

The Champion engine is a licensed clone of the Honda GX-200. Please don't confuse the Champion C46540 as just another contractor grade generator.

The inverter has everything do to with loudness. Inverted based generator idle down when not under load. When the inverter requires more power, RPMs increase and the generator gets louder. A non-inverter based generator runs at a constant RPM, in the case of the Champion C46540 it runs at 3600RPM. The Champion produces a modified sine wave in line with your Honda. It power computers, microwaves, A/C, and TVs.

I did pull noise ratings from a Yamaha EF2800i @67db when I said they will be about the same at full load, you are correct in your stated rating of 58db for the Honda. For what its worth to you, I have measured a 67db rating on the Champion C46540 at 7meters. The Hondas typically run at the volume of a normal conversation, the Champion will run at the volume of a loud conversation. For many people, when running A/C, the Champion will not be any louder outside than your A/C unit. Inside you won't know the Champion is running.

Don't get me wrong, Honda and Yamaha build excellent generators and their quality is second to none. The Champion C46540 is not a replacement, but it is a good reasonably price alternative. I have mine mounted on my ATV trailer and I use it periodically when boon docking.

The original poster inquired about a reasonably priced portable generator. Granted, the Champion I suggested isn't considered portable for everyone, but with a wheel-kit I think it may meet his guys needs.

I should also note for TCBob, the model Champion I stated will deliver 29.5AMPs off its RV Style connector, a Honda EU2000 will deliver 16.7AMPs on a standard 20AMP connector. The Champion will likely power A/C and a Microwave, the EU2000 likely will not.

Steve, for more information on Honda clones and the Champions read here for enlightenment.


Posted By: Mooney on 07/14/07 08:49am

Just a quick note:

I use the H2000, H3000 and we now have the EU series H7000 as well. These units are kept as backup for the office and used for the house and camping.

Hands down I like the H3000 the best as it's the quietest gen-set on the market (slightly quieter than the H2000) will power the a/c, fridge, micro and just about everything we can throw at it in the T/C simultaneously. It carry's enough fuel to run more than 20 hours at partial load. When we camp with others they plug in and we run two a/c at the same time. It has electric start, wheel kit, enclosed case and big carrying handles. The power is extremely clean as with most Honda EU series gen-sets. It's only down fall is that it weighs around 130 pounds, but with one person on each side of those big carry handles is reasonable to move around. Even the DW seems ok for short distances.

That being said the H2000 has quickly become the gen-set of choice when going long distances and wanting the convenience of a very portable package. It's quiet, simple to use, easy to start, and has a decent run time. As Steve said it can be linked to another doubling the output. There are also fuel kits that have been made by fellow RV.net people increasing run time.

The H7000 we wheel onto the trailer as it's by far the heaviest of the three, but when purchased it was one of the quietest gen-sets for the size. Using inverter power it's clean, has electric start and a long run time. We have used it to power three rigs . . . two T/C's and a 5th wheel including three a/c's and all additional stuff in their units.

I don't have any experience with the Chinese gen sets, however Steve did bring up a good point " why spend 60+K on your T/C set-up and then balk about a $900 gen-set." Using a lap top, satellite, nice LCD TV I am just willing to save a few bucks on the electricity going into them. For others this may be less of a concern based on their needs being different. We are truly a happy Honda family.


'08 Ford F550, Lariat, Link Air Suspension, Roll-A-Long Conversion, Twin Turbo 6.4, TorkLifts, SuperHitch, "Monster Duty Truckasaurus"
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Posted By: Ibeme on 07/14/07 10:16am

Interesting thread..... you learn something new every day here. My battery is getting weak after about 5 years of use. I may finally have to start my generator.

merlin


Merlin, Dianne & Chimo
2001 F150 SCSB 4x4 etc.
Palomino 1250SB
Islander, Concours



Posted By: 2oldman on 07/14/07 10:20am

What I find interesting is this thread has remained in Truck Campers.


Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 07/14/07 12:06am

scottz wrote:

I respectfully disagree.

The Champion engine is a licensed clone of the Honda GX-200. Please don't confuse the Champion C46540 as just another contractor grade generator.
Since the only gensets mentioned up to your post had been the inverter H/Ys your mention of "Honda clone" implied it was similar to those and to someone not familiar with gensets could be seen as an endorsement that it was of the same quality as those.

While the Honda GX-200 might be a good reliable genset it is appreciably down the hierarchy from the H3000i as far as sound levels go. The GX-200 is a contractor grade genset, so by definition any "clone" of it is still a contractor grade genset. While you might be willing to put up with the noise, neither the GX-200 or your clone of it would be popular with your neighbors in anything other then a high noise environment such as I mentioned (dunes with quads). In most campgrounds you couldn't even get the genset the 21' away it needs to even meet its sound rating (for your comfort) without putting it next to, or even in, your neighbors site (and thus ruining theirs).

Quote:

The inverter has everything do to with loudness. Inverted based generator idle down when not under load. When the inverter requires more power, RPMs increase and the generator gets louder. A non-inverter based generator runs at a constant RPM, in the case of the Champion C46540 it runs at 3600RPM. The Champion produces a modified sine wave in line with your Honda. It power computers, microwaves, A/C, and TVs.
The inverter types aren't the only gensets that vary rpm's based on loads. The Onan in my previous Class A would do it as well. The inverter still has nothing to do with the sound level even at max rpms, it is the design of the engine, enclosure and exhaust that determine how loud it is. While it might power them (it does put out 120V after all), sensitive electronics (specifically their power supplies) won't like it and can have their life seriously shortened by that loosely regulated, modified sinewave output.

Quote:

I did pull noise ratings from a Yamaha EF2800i @67db when I said they will be about the same at full load, you are correct in your stated rating of 58db for the Honda. For what its worth to you, I have measured a 67db rating on the Champion C46540 at 7meters. The Hondas typically run at the volume of a normal conversation, the Champion will run at the volume of a loud conversation. For many people, when running A/C, the Champion will not be any louder outside than your A/C unit. Inside you won't know the Champion is running.
Yes but your neighbors sure will, since that "loud conversation" could be more accurately described as people yelling outside your window. Of course the TV can always be turned up to drown out the neighbor's complaints.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, Honda and Yamaha build excellent generators and their quality is second to none. The Champion C46540 is not a replacement, but it is a good reasonably price alternative. I have mine mounted on my ATV trailer and I use it periodically when boon docking.

The original poster inquired about a reasonably priced portable generator. Granted, the Champion I suggested isn't considered portable for everyone, but with a wheel-kit I think it may meet his guys needs.
Yes it might be a reasonably priced genset but the noise issue is something that deserved to be addressed more realistically in the recommendation. As well as the fact that it would only be socially acceptable in a high noise environment or if you are camping all by yourself with no close neighbors.

Quote:

I should also note for TCBob, the model Champion I stated will deliver 29.5AMPs off its RV Style connector, a Honda EU2000 will deliver 16.7AMPs on a standard 20AMP connector. The Champion will likely power A/C and a Microwave, the EU2000 likely will not.
No one has ever said an H2000 would power both a micro and A/C at the same time. The more correct comparison output wise to your genset is the H3000 and it will do everything and more (at a much quieter noise level) then yours. If the H3000's bulk is too much for someone then dual H2000's will put out even more amps and in a flexible package that is easy to move around.

Quote:

Steve, for more information on Honda clones and the Champions read here for enlightenment.
Sorry I don't need to wade through 185 pages of people trying to convince themselves that they bought the right genset. It's like people saying their Yugo is the same as a Lexus since they both have four wheels and an engine. Until something better comes along it is a simple fact that the inverter Hondas are the top of the food chain in generators with the Yamahas running a close second. It's funny that people will spend $20+K on a TC and then $40K on a truck to carry it but will balk at paying $900 for a quality genset.


Posted By: scottz on 07/14/07 01:46am

Steve_in_29 wrote:

Since the only gensets mentioned up to your post had been the inverter H/Ys your mention of "Honda clone" implied it was similar to those and to someone not familiar with gensets could be seen as an endorsement that it was of the same quality as those.

Nice to see you make the occasional mistake as well.

Steve_in_29 wrote:

In most campgrounds you couldn't even get the genset the 21' away it needs to even meet its sound rating (for your comfort) without putting it next to, or even in, your neighbors site (and thus ruining theirs).

TCBob was looking for something to use while boon docking.

Steve_in_29 wrote:

While it might power them (it does put out 120V after all), sensitive electronics (specifically their power supplies) won't like it and can have their life seriously shortened by that loosely regulated, modified sinewave output.

Read here and here and decide for yourself.

Steve_in_29 wrote:

the H3000 and it will do everything and more (at a much quieter noise level) then yours.

FALSE Unless your RV supports a twist-lock you will be limited to 20AMPs, if your RV does support a twitch lock you will be limited to 23.3 rated AMPs with the H3000.

Steve_in_29 wrote:

It's like people saying their Yugo is the same as a Lexus since they both have four wheels and an engine.

Steve, do you go around telling people that drive Yugo's they are wrong and should have bought a Lexus?


Steve, I am done responding to you. I have submitted a review to TCBob via private message.

-ScottZ


Posted By: 2oldman on 07/13/07 09:05am

TCBob wrote:

They tell me it (Kipor) is essentially the same unit as Honda, . Is that correct?
Read the Honda v Kipor and Chinese gen threads I provided above.


Posted By: brain on 07/12/07 09:54pm

purplepossum wrote:

One wrinkle in the formula is appliance compatibility to the generator. I bought a Honda 3000 to power my used TT last August, only to find that my Black and Decker under the cabinet coffemaker wouldn't work. Had to buy another brand coffemaker that would work with it.

That Black and Decker Coffee maker is now installed in a new class C I bought and works just fine. The class C has a Onan generator. I don't fully understand what that difference is, something to do with sine wave??????


Well, it should not be.

Onan is a regular genset (engine drives alternator that generates 120VAC)
KIPOR 3000 Tc (for example) is a modified sine-wave (or some non-sensical name) genset. Truthfully, it's a square-wave 120VAC inverter generator. engine drives DC generator, which is sent to windings to step up to 120 volts and chop into a square wave. As this waveform does not approximate a sine wave, it's really only good for resistive loads (toasters, etc.) that don;t care. Inductive loads (like motors) hate this waveform.

However, most portable generators are true sine wave inverter generators, including the Honda 2000. On these, the engine drives a DC generator, but the DC is converted into a nice since wave at 120VAC.

So, the Honda 2000 should have powered the coffeemaker fine. It seems odd that it will not.

Jim


Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 07/15/07 11:45am

JoeChiOhki wrote:

Cause some of us only spent $5500 on our truck/camper setup and choke at the thought of spending almost as much as the whole camper for a generator.
Just because someone got a great deal on their truck/TC combo is no reason to cheap out and buy a poor quality genset.

Your camping neighbors probably won't care how much you paid for your combo but they sure will notice how little you paid for the genset.


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 07/15/07 11:49am

Steve, I will happily upgrade to a H1000 for you, just let me know when and I'll send you the address to mail the check , cause $900 is roughly a months wages for me.

Just an addendum after being out working on the camper today to prep it for its latest adventure. I have camped many many times with people using contractor grade generators. I've only seen one person using a Honda genny in my time camping in Oregon, but a number using Champions and Colemans, and one I that I have no clue what brand it was, but it ran all day long to power a pickup camper.

For the record, I have personally sat next to the 4000watt unit mentioned above whilst having a conversation with a gentleman in no louder than normal tones. Small OHV engines do not make their full ripping roar when you don't super load the buggers, take for example a pressure washer. When its not under heavy load, it doesn't idle real loud, its only when ya squeeze the trigger and rev the engine up to heavy load that it gets loud.

On the note of spark arrestors, the Champion series comes with a spark arrestor kit for operation in areas with highly flammable vegatation.

* This post was edited 07/15/07 06:15pm by JoeChiOhki *


Posted By: scottz on 07/15/07 07:58pm

Mooney wrote:


I don't have any experience with the Chinese gen sets, however Steve did bring up a good point " why spend 60+K on your T/C set-up and then balk about a $900 gen-set." Using a lap top, satellite, nice LCD TV I am just willing to save a few bucks on the electricity going into them.

For me its more of the matter of why spend $2000 on a EU3000 when a $300 Champion meets my needs.


Posted By: rk2000rider on 07/20/07 05:31am

purplepossum wrote:

One wrinkle in the formula is appliance compatibility to the generator. I bought a Honda 3000 to power my used TT last August, only to find that my Black and Decker under the cabinet coffemaker wouldn't work. Had to buy another brand coffemaker that would work with it.

That Black and Decker Coffee maker is now installed in a new class C I bought and works just fine. The class C has a Onan generator. I don't fully understand what that difference is, something to do with sine wave??????


I have the same problem, what brands of coffee makers will work?


Posted By: pawatt on 07/14/07 10:35am

Yamaha or Honda


pawatt


Posted By: joec on 07/14/07 11:07am

Just one other note on the knock off gen sets from India and China or any contractor grade unit, you may want look into how good there spark arrestors are.

If you are boondocking this becomes a point of concern.

One other thought, if you buy a unit that is bigger than what you need it won't need to run at full throttle and it should be quieter, last longer and have the ability to run other things when and if you ever need to.


Posted By: trapperdick on 07/14/07 07:30pm

You meet the nices people on a Honda !! TD


OLDER AND BOLDER,,,,,N1ATF
Ford F-350 Dually Diesel, Lance 9SC, Harley Davidson Heritage Softail, 12 ft Hallmark trailer and Skeeter the camping beagle .........


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 07/15/07 11:04am

Mooney wrote:

Just a quick note:
I don't have any experience with the Chinese gen sets, however Steve did bring up a good point " why spend 60+K on your T/C set-up and then balk about a $900 gen-set."


Cause some of us only spent $5500 on our truck/camper setup and choke at the thought of spending almost as much as the whole camper for a generator.


Posted By: F350OilBurner on 07/20/07 07:24am

I have a Honda EU 2000 and a Champion C46540. I like them both. I'd never use the Champion in a campground but I'd sure use it at a NASCAR race. It is NOT a contractor grade generator. It is much quieter. Not as quiet as a Honda or other inverter generator but if the Honda is under load, it's similar in noise output.

I'm in general not a fan of all these cheap Chinese knock offs that everyone is selling these days. In fact, many companies now have there equipment manufactured in China and still charge prices as if it were manufactured in the USA. However, the Champion generator is truly one of the best values available in a generator today. I paid about $330 delivered to my door for this 3500 watt generator. It started on the first pull after adding fuel and oil. It has started on the first pull every time and has worked flawlessly. My Honda doesn't even start on the first pull all the time.


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Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 07/20/07 03:13pm

F350OilBurner wrote:

I have a Honda EU 2000 and a Champion C46540. I like them both. I'd never use the Champion in a campground but I'd sure use it at a NASCAR race. It is NOT a contractor grade generator. It is much quieter. Not as quiet as a Honda or other inverter generator but if the Honda is under load, it's similar in noise output.
Well while you personally might find them to be similar their own specs show it isn't the case. A 10db higher noise level (when both are at full load) is NOT a similar level, is very noticeable and is on a par with other contractor grade gensets.

But like you say at a NASCAR race or other noisy event then it is a moot point and if it works as good as you say it does then it is a true value in its class. It's just not what many people would want to be listening to even in the middle of nowhere.


Posted By: hcpgrammy on 07/20/07 03:51pm

So what happened to camping? You know, getting out in the wilderness, enjoying wildlife and the birdsong? The sound of a rippling stream or the wind through the pines? I love my TC for the dry bed that is off the ground, for the roof over my head in a thunderstorm. I don't need a coffee maker.. learned to make camp coffee by boiling it over a campfire (thought I now use a percolator on the stove). I can cook entire meals over a campfire but appreciate the stove and fridge on board. And what I REALY LOVE is the bathroom right there, no more trips out into the dark of night. I appreciate the quiet sounds of nature as I gaze at the stars... not my neighboring camper's generator running at night. One of the best parts of a camping trip is sitting around the campfire, talking quietly, and looking at the stars. I have to vote for a QUIET generator. That's my plan.


Happy trails...


Posted By: jaeger19 on 07/20/07 05:24pm

I did a lot of research into generators before buying one. I do have the finances but as my wife says I'm like a little bird "cheap, cheap, cheap".
I settled on saving for the eu2000, (2) of them. The reasons: quieter, I boon dock mostly but there are other campers around and quite frankly, i don't want to listen to the noise (but i want my wife to be happy and cool in the camper in the desert heat). Much more portable than anything else. Everyone services honda motors and if you can find someone willing to sell an eu2000, they want almost the same money as new so they hold their value well and will last you years of service. I did not want to burn out the motors in the ac unit by using a cheaper generator that did not have "clean" power ( see reasons in several posts) It seemed smarter to get a good generator up front than to buy something that would cause me to replace an ac unit later. Plus i go boondocking almost everyweekend in the spring and summer and hunting in the fall. If i was only going to use it 1-3 times a year I might have chosen a cheaper brand.


Posted By: F350OilBurner on 07/20/07 05:45pm

Steve_in_29 wrote:

Well while you personally might find them to be similar their own specs show it isn't the case. A 10db higher noise level (when both are at full load) is NOT a similar level, is very noticeable and is on a par with other contractor grade gensets.


Unless you actually have them and can run them side by side you really can't make a comparison. It may be my opinion, but I can tell you that the Honda EU2000 at full song is not noticeably quieter than the Champion. Regardless of what any specs say on paper. In Eco mode, the Honda is noticeably quieter at lower RPM.


Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 07/21/07 09:20am

F350OilBurner wrote:

Steve_in_29 wrote:

Well while you personally might find them to be similar their own specs show it isn't the case. A 10db higher noise level (when both are at full load) is NOT a similar level, is very noticeable and is on a par with other contractor grade gensets.


Unless you actually have them and can run them side by side you really can't make a comparison. It may be my opinion, but I can tell you that the Honda EU2000 at full song is not noticeably quieter than the Champion. Regardless of what any specs say on paper. In Eco mode, the Honda is noticeably quieter at lower RPM.
If what you say is true then you should be either writing to Honda complaining about your noisy unit or to Champion telling them to change their specs as one or the other is wrong. A 10db difference is very noticeable as it represents a doubling of the sound level.

On a table of sound levels, the Honda's level is equal to a normal conversation (at 1') while the Champion's is the same as a the traffic on a busy street or a small orchestra.

* This post was edited 07/21/07 09:29am by Steve_in_29 *


Posted By: Kober on 07/21/07 10:46am

I have a set of twin Honda EU2000i gensets. Started out with one but it wouldn't run my AC at higher elevations so I bought the second set.
In the winter I only carry one since that's all it takes for the MW etc.
They never take more than 2 or 3 pulls to start even after sitting idle for a few months.
They are the quietest gensets I know of and since I don't do NASCAR camping but spend a lot of time out in the boondocks or in National Forests that alone is worth every cent I spent on them.
There is a difference between the clean power provided by these generators vs. the "modified sine wave" El Cheapos which will become evident if you power things like computers and with them.
At about 40 lbs even my wife can carry them around without getting a hernia.
How quiet are Honda generators? Next time you go to Fishermans Warf in SF look around at Pier 39. There will be a guy with a guitar, a microphone and an amp powered by a Honda sitting behind him singing for money. I don't think he'd wanna try that with a $250.00 chinese generator.

* This post was edited 07/21/07 10:53am by Kober *


Last trip of 2012
2004.5 Dodge 3500 4x4 DRW CTD 600, Warn Winch etc, 2002 Lance 915, 2 Honda 2000i,
PATRIOT GUARD RIDER, AMERICAN LEGION RIDER



Posted By: Kober on 07/21/07 11:02am

Steve_in_29 wrote:

F350OilBurner wrote:

Steve_in_29 wrote:

Well while you personally might find them to be similar their own specs show it isn't the case. A 10db higher noise level (when both are at full load) is NOT a similar level, is very noticeable and is on a par with other contractor grade gensets.


Unless you actually have them and can run them side by side you really can't make a comparison. It may be my opinion, but I can tell you that the Honda EU2000 at full song is not noticeably quieter than the Champion. Regardless of what any specs say on paper. In Eco mode, the Honda is noticeably quieter at lower RPM.
If what you say is true then you should be either writing to Honda complaining about your noisy unit or to Champion telling them to change their specs as one or the other is wrong. A 10db difference is very noticeable as it represents a doubling of the sound level.

On a table of sound levels, the Honda's level is equal to a normal conversation (at 1') while the Champion's is the same as a the traffic on a busy street or a small orchestra.




3db is double the volume. 10db is more than significant:

If generator "B" is 3db louder than generator "A" then the noise it generates is the quivalent of 2 "A" type generators.
If generator "B" is 6db louder than generator "A" then the noise it generates is the quivalent of 4 "A" type generators.
If generator "B" is 9db louder than generator "A" then the noise it generates is the quivalent of 8 "A" type generators.

Like the man said: You pays your money and you makes your choices.


Posted By: F350OilBurner on 07/21/07 12:32pm

Interesting how people with no personal experience can look at a piece of paper and make an evaluation. Get back to me when you've got some real life information to share.


Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 07/21/07 02:34pm

F350OilBurner wrote:

Interesting how people with no personal experience can look at a piece of paper and make an evaluation. Get back to me when you've got some real life information to share.
No need to get your panties in a wad. Manufacturers spend lots of money testing their equipment so that they can put the specs on that "piece of paper" for the exact reason that people can then "make an evaluation". Like I said, if what you say is true then you either have a noisy Honda or a super quiet Champion. Either of which is out of spec and the appropriate manufacturer should be notified, Honda to complain or Champion to upgrade their spec.

Of course a quick adjustment of a hearing aid can let any generator be quieter then the Honda.


Posted By: Kober on 07/21/07 03:30pm

F350OilBurner wrote:

Interesting how people with no personal experience can look at a piece of paper and make an evaluation. Get back to me when you've got some real life information to share.


LOL! Well, 10db is 10db no matter how you slice it or what you wish it to be. As far as personal experience, I have plenty. I hear these cheapo throwaway contractor type of gensets almost every day at jobsites. They're almost never old and beat up from being lugged around. Most of them always look fairly new. They seem to get replaced often. You get what you pay for.


Posted By: scottz on 07/22/07 08:28pm

Kober wrote:


LOL! Well, 10db is 10db no matter how you slice it or what you wish it to be.

F350OilBurner isn't alone in thinking that two Ei2000s are as loud the Champion C46540
These people think the Hondas are louder after listening to each.

Maybe two EU2000i gensets are louder than one.

Kober wrote:


As far as personal experience, I have plenty. I hear these cheapo throwaway contractor type of gensets almost every day at jobsites. They're almost never old and beat up from being lugged around. Most of them always look fairly new. They seem to get replaced often.

To be clear, nobody has specifically suggested the contractor type of gensets you speak of. The appeal and reason for the recommendation of the Champion C46540 is its relative quietness (compared to the contractor gensets), the quality of product and support customers of this product have shared in these forums, and its great price.

Kober wrote:

You get what you pay for.

And I would rather pay $300 for something that will get the job done instead of $2000 (general price for two EU2000i). I suggest you read the link above Kober.


Posted By: JeremyD on 07/22/07 08:50pm

If your not camping around people, Im all for the contractor type generators. If I was boondocking by myself Id have one, but as soon as you bring those types of gens to a campground with others around...It dont fly to well with the others or the management that Ive witnessed.


Posted By: Kober on 07/22/07 10:01pm

[quote=scottz [quote=Kober]You get what you pay for.[/quote] And I would rather pay $300 for something that will get the job done instead of $2000 (general price for two EU2000i). I suggest you read the link above Kober.[/quote] How long have you had your Champion and how many hours have you run it? Home Depot used to carry this as a jobsite generator and yes, I've heard it. Adding a 30 amp outlet is the only lipstick they managed to add do this pig in order to call it "RV Friendly". Next visit I'll have to ask them how come they don't carry it anymore.

Note: Due to invalid formatting, all formatting has been ignored.

* This post was last edited 07/22/07 10:38pm by Kober *


Posted By: Kober on 07/22/07 10:15pm

MODEL NUMBER C46540
VOLTAGE 120/240
FREQUENCY 60 Hertz
ENGINE Champion 6.5-HP OHV
ELECTRIC START No
IDLE CONTROL No
AUTO VOLTAGE REGULATION No
LOW OIL ALERT Yes
FUEL TANK 4 Gallons
RUN TIME (50% LOAD) 12 Hours
PORTABILITY KIT Not Included
LIMITED WARRANTY 1 Year
WEIGHT 100 Lbs.
DIMENSIONS 23.25"L x 17.5"W x 17.25"H
DECIBEL RATING 68 dB(A) @ 7 Meters

And all of this for only $599.00!! What a deal! LOL!!!
100lbs, no voltage regulation, and 68db at 21 feet! You gotta be kidding trying to compare this to an RV friendly generator, leave alone a Honda EU2000i or a Yamaha.

How would you lug this behemoth around? Are you going to trust a computer, TV Microwave, etc to a generator without any voltage regulation?

Like I said, there ain't no free lunch and yes, in the end you do get what you pay for.

Don't believe me? Walk into any Honda dealer that sells EU200is and ask them to fire one up, in the showroom. You'll be able to continue your conversation with your salesman, standing right next to it. Then try that with the Champion.

* This post was edited 07/22/07 10:27pm by Kober *


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 07/23/07 12:19am

Yup, and for only $299 you can get the same 4000 Watt Champion Generator from any Schucks/Kracken Autoparts store that you are refering to above.

As I said for Steve, Kober, I'm all for owning a honda 1000 generator, I'll happily own one, just need you to send me the check to buy it.

Fired up my handy Champion 1500/1200 the other night, not very loud since even with the A/C on in the camper, it never comes up from idle aside from the 2 seconds of time where the startup surge happens.

There's two sayings Kober, there's "Ya get what ya pay for" and there's an equally important one, "Ya live within your means." Not everyone has tons of cash just laying around to buy toys, most of us would like to have money left over to go camping.

Ya ever notice Kober and Steve that out in the world outside the minority that are a part of this forum that seem to have tons of cash and finances to run out and buy the latest shinny F-550 on the drop of a hat, that the vast majority of people RVing and camping seem to not own the expensive stuff like Honda Generators, Triple Side Campers, and a $65,000 truck/camper setup. As far as I've seen on the roads, the majority of folks owner slightly older, more used vehicles, with older RVs. For example, I drive I-5 regularly, when I see campers driving buy, I usually see older models, between 10-30 years old, on trucks within the same age range. Most times the boats are newer, but I've seen an equal number of 1970s fiberglass boats and old alumawelds that have seen who knows how many years.

What am I getting at after all the blabber? This...

Honda: Good, but rich man's toy
Yamaha: Also Good, see Honda
Kipor: Chinese Knockoff, but see Honda.
Champion/Coleman/generic cheap Generator: Working man's toy.

Long story short, just because you can afford it doesn't mean that everyone else can, or wants to spend that much money on something that might see 5-6 trips a year.

One last thing, get off yer generator pedestal and go camping, too much time is being spent here by everyone shouting and yelling, and not enough is being spent out cracking cans and wetting your lines.


Posted By: scottz on 07/23/07 09:44am

Just thought I would correct a few things mentioned by Kober.
The Champion C46540 DOES have a automatic voltage regulator
7 Meters is the standard distance to take DB ratings
The Champion C46540 is more commonly found for $300 but like anything, you can find it for more if you want to. Maybe the "you get what you pay for" guys prefer this.
100lbs for a generator that puts out 29.5AMPs isn't bad. For comparison the Honda EU3000 weights 134lbs while putting out less amperage.

Please, can we stop the slander and mis-information already?


Posted By: Surferkim on 07/23/07 10:42am

PartsAmerica has it for $299 and free shipping.


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Posted By: Kober on 07/23/07 10:56am

scottz wrote:

Just thought I would correct a few things mentioned by Kober.
The Champion C46540 DOES have a automatic voltage regulator
7 Meters is the standard distance to take DB ratings
The Champion C46540 is more commonly found for $300 but like anything, you can find it for more if you want to. Maybe the "you get what you pay for" guys prefer this.
100lbs for a generator that puts out 29.5AMPs isn't bad. For comparison the Honda EU3000 weights 134lbs while putting out less amperage.

Please, can we stop the slander and mis-information already?


I take exception to your accusation of slander and misinformation. You can untwist your knickers anytime now.

I didn't just invent the specs, I copied the specs and pasted directly from the website advertising this generator. It is advertised for $599.00. You may qualify for a $100.00 discount if you hurry. I didn't find anyone selling it for $300.00.

I bought 2 45lbs Honda EU200is because I didn't want to lug around a 135lbs EU3000i either.


Posted By: Kober on 07/23/07 11:03am

Surferkim wrote:

PartsAmerica has it for $299 and free shipping.


Yep. There it is. Exact same generator. Even has the same picture. No voltage regulator but hey, look at the price!


Posted By: Kober on 07/23/07 11:26am

JoeChiOhki wrote:

happens.

There's two sayings Kober, there's "Ya get what ya pay for" and there's an equally important one, "Ya live within your means." Not everyone has tons of cash just laying around to buy toys, most of us would like to have money left over to go camping.

Ya ever notice Kober and Steve that out in the world outside the minority that are a part of this forum that seem to have tons of cash and finances to run out and buy the latest shinny F-550 on the drop of a hat, that the vast majority of people RVing and camping seem to not own the expensive stuff like Honda Generators, Triple Side Campers, and a $65,000 truck/camper setup. As far as I've seen on the roads, the majority of folks owner slightly older, more used vehicles, with older RVs. For example, I drive I-5 regularly, when I see campers driving buy, I usually see older models, between 10-30 years old, on trucks within the same age range. Most times the boats are newer, but I've seen an equal number of 1970s fiberglass boats and old alumawelds that have seen who knows how many years.

What am I getting at after all the blabber? This...

Honda: Good, but rich man's toy
Yamaha: Also Good, see Honda
Kipor: Chinese Knockoff, but see Honda.
Champion/Coleman/generic cheap Generator: Working man's toy.



Wow! I've been called a lot of things in my life. Some true, some not so much, but rich ain't ever been one of them.

Redistribution of resources isn't my cup of tea.

Generators, like cars, homes or anything else are not all created equal. There's a diffence between a Yugo and a Lexus. You can buy a singlewide trailer or custom built home.

In the long run, there is a price associated with buying cheap stuff. I have a sign in my office which states: "The sweetness of a low price is quickly forgotten but the sour taste of low quality is long remembered."

If someone is happy with their Champion generator then more power to them. But to try and convince anyone that this generator is the same quality as a Honda in any way, shape or form is ridiculous. The two aren't even in the same league just as Yugo and Lexus aren't in the same league.


Posted By: Mooney on 07/23/07 12:41pm

JoeChiOhki wrote:


Ya ever notice Kober and Steve that out in the world outside the minority that are a part of this forum that seem to have tons of cash and finances to run out and buy the latest shinny F-550 on the drop of a hat, that the vast majority of people RVing and camping seem to not own the expensive stuff like Honda Generators, Triple Side Campers, and a $65,000 truck/camper setup. As far as I've seen on the roads, the majority of folks owner slightly older, more used vehicles, with older RVs.


Hmm . . . wow.

You going to bag on my boat too:



Seriously Joe . . . no need to start stereotyping people because of what they chose to drive.

I am not driving this:









And I am sure these are not shots of you're private collection:







So let's drop the generalization since I am sure you don't know what Steve, Kober or F-550 owners financial situation really is.


The campers I see a lot of on the road look nice, well kept and show pride of ownership. A lot like this shot of many who attended the Pacific SW Caravan at Pismo Beach:






Keep in mind what you see out your window, and what I see out mine can be different.

I believe there are those like myself who like the Honda's, and it's obvious from others on this thread that they like the Champions. It's a free country, nobody is knocking the purchase decision of another . . . just trying to share facts and opinions so that other future owners can make their own choice.


Posted By: Kober on 07/23/07 01:02pm

Well put Mooney, LOL!!


Posted By: scottz on 07/23/07 01:15pm

Kober wrote:

Surferkim wrote:

PartsAmerica has it for $299 and free shipping.


Yep. There it is. Exact same generator. Even has the same picture. No voltage regulator but hey, look at the price!

Twice you have incorrectly stated this generator does not have a voltage regulator. Again, the Champion C46540 DOES have an automatic voltage regulator.

Kober wrote:

I take exception to your accusation of slander and misinformation.


Again, please stop spreading misinformation.


Posted By: scottz on 07/24/07 10:45am

EricCO wrote:

Let me express my extreme displeasure for those that punish the rest of us with their cheap generators. How can anyone buy one of those and then use it in a campground? Total disrespect for others.

EricCO wrote:

If you run one of those loud cheap generators in a campground then you are a jerk. IMHO of course.

I haven't seen anyone suggest the cheap contractor generators you are referring to so I can only assume you are referring to the Champion generators. Please correct me if I am wrong in this assumption.

I want to clarify that the loud contractor generators approach and sometimes exceed 80db. The Champion is rated at 68db. To put that into perspective the Champion is quieter than the average RV forced air furnace. Click this link for more on this topic. Would I be a jerk if I ran my furnace at a campground?

Also to be clear the original poster asked about boondocking.


Posted By: Kober on 07/23/07 01:26pm

scottz wrote:

Kober wrote:

Surferkim wrote:

PartsAmerica has it for $299 and free shipping.


Yep. There it is. Exact same generator. Even has the same picture. No voltage regulator but hey, look at the price!

Twice you have incorrectly stated this generator does not have a voltage regulator. Again, the Champion C46540 DOES have an automatic voltage regulator.

Kober wrote:

I take exception to your accusation of slander and misinformation.


Again, please stop spreading misinformation.


And for the third time: The manufacturer's ad clearly states that this generator has no voltage regulation. As in no, nix, nada, ain't got one, ain't happenin', you gotta get your own, homey don't play voltage regulation, etc. etc.

Once again, here is the ad:

MODEL NUMBER C46540
VOLTAGE 120/240
FREQUENCY 60 Hertz
ENGINE Champion 6.5-HP OHV
ELECTRIC START No
IDLE CONTROL No
AUTO VOLTAGE REGULATION No
LOW OIL ALERT Yes
FUEL TANK 4 Gallons
RUN TIME (50% LOAD) 12 Hours
PORTABILITY KIT Not Included
LIMITED WARRANTY 1 Year
WEIGHT 100 Lbs.
DIMENSIONS 23.25"L x 17.5"W x 17.25"H
DECIBEL RATING 68 dB(A) @ 7 Meters


What part of: "AUTO VOLTAGE REGULATION No" do you not understand????


Posted By: scottz on 07/23/07 02:12pm

Kober wrote:


And for the third time: The manufacturer's ad clearly states that this generator has no voltage regulation.

To my knowledge the Champion does not sell generators direct to customer. Please provide a URL to the "manufacturer's" ad.

By the way, I can see the AVR on my Champion C46540.


Posted By: Kober on 07/23/07 02:49pm

scottz wrote:

Kober wrote:


And for the third time: The manufacturer's ad clearly states that this generator has no voltage regulation.

To my knowledge the Champion does not sell generators direct to customer. Please provide a URL to the "manufacturer's" ad.

By the way, I can see the AVR on my Champion C46540.


Here you go: Champion generators

If you call them you'll find out that none of their generators have any Automatic Voltage Regulators so I don't know what your seeing on yours. They depend on the motor running at a constant RPM to keep the voltage constant. Their FAQ also tells you to use an UPS or surge protector to protect "sensitive" equipment against voltage fluctuations.

I don't "spread mis-information" and I certainly don't slander. I do a little bit of research before I offer to fall on my sword about some fact or another. Google is the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Posted By: scottz on 07/23/07 04:46pm

Kober wrote:


Here you go: Champion generators

Your link is not an Ad, it is a product page and the product page says nothing about it an AVR. Where is the manufactures ad you referred to stating it doesn't have a AVR?

Kober wrote:


If you call them you'll find out that none of their generators have any Automatic Voltage Regulators so I don't know what your seeing on yours.

Again, you are providing the forum with incorrect information.
Did you call them? I called them and they confirmed that my eyes are not deceiving me and the others in the forums with the same genset aren't wrong either. The Champion c46540 comes with an automatic voltage regulator (AVR).

For your reference here is a link to a review from someone who measure the THD (produced by the AVR) and reported "The Champion unit produces less that 4% THD at 80% load, which is pretty darn good."

Kober wrote:


Their FAQ also tells you to use an UPS or surge protector to protect "sensitive" equipment against voltage fluctuations.

Again, you are taking part in slander.
The suggestion of inline surge protection is not unique to Champion gensets. For example Honda suggests inline surge protection .

Let me clarify my position.
The Champion c46540 is not in the same class as Honda and Yamaha.
The Champion c46540 is not in the same class as the generalized "contractor grade" generators.
They are somewhere in between and come at a comfortable price from a company which to this point has provided great support.


Posted By: 2chevytrucks on 07/23/07 05:36pm

I've never posted here before but I must say you guys are brutal! I"m not sure anyone ever said that an off brand genny is as good as a name brand but in all fairness some people just plain can't afford a Honda. I would love to have a Honda instead of my Champion but my generator does what it needs to do and does it quietly enough so it doesn't piss off the neighbors. People just want opinions, they don't want to listen to people bicker. We are all trying to accomplish the same thing on different budgets so get along and don't belittle each other. You might run into each other camping and you would hate to not have anyone to talk to because you can't agree on a generator brand.

Steve


Posted By: Kober on 07/23/07 06:31pm

I don't know how to make this any clearer: 2 hours ago I spoke with the tech at Champion. THERE IS NO AVR ON ANY OF THEIR GENERATORS.

I posted an ad twice in this very thread that specifically and in plain english states that this generator does NOT HAVE AVR. Here is the complete ad Champion Generator Ad

If you have a regulator on yours then take a picture of it and post it here. I want to send it to the tech I spoke with so he can tell me why he what it is. Here's the phone number for the manufacturer that I called: 1-877-338-0999.

I've lost track of the number of times you've accused me of slander now. Your accusation is as ridiculous as it is childish and adds nothing to the discussion.

* This post was edited 07/23/07 07:11pm by Kober *


Posted By: Kober on 07/23/07 07:50pm

2chevytrucks wrote:

I've never posted here before but I must say you guys are brutal! I"m not sure anyone ever said that an off brand genny is as good as a name brand but in all fairness some people just plain can't afford a Honda. I would love to have a Honda instead of my Champion but my generator does what it needs to do and does it quietly enough so it doesn't piss off the neighbors. People just want opinions, they don't want to listen to people bicker. We are all trying to accomplish the same thing on different budgets so get along and don't belittle each other. You might run into each other camping and you would hate to not have anyone to talk to because you can't agree on a generator brand.

Steve


Well said, Steve.

I'd like to drive a 550 Ford but can't afford one of those either. That doesn't mean that I'm going to tell people that my 3500 Dodge is comparable to the 550.

I object when I read things in here that tends to lead people down the Primrose Path mostly because 4 or 5 years ago I was led down that path by recommendations made by people who had an axe to grind. 3/4ton SRW pickups are not just as good as 1ton DRW trucks when carrying 4500lb campers and that doesn't change no matter who can or can't afford the right truck. You will not get the same service from a Champion Generator that you would get from a Honda EU type no matter who can afford what.

People ask for advice in here and they should get the straight poop. I have no objections to telling someone who asks for advice about a cheap $300.00 generator along with the more expensive types as long as they are made aware of the real differences.

People have bought these cheapies only to loose that money when they decided that what they really needed were the Honda/Yamahas. Personally I've never read of anyone loosing money by selling their Honda/Yamaha and then buying a $300.00 El Cheapo.

With that I think I'm about all done here. I would like to resolve the mystery of the existant/nonexistant AVR but I'll wait for the picture.


Posted By: scottz on 07/24/07 07:24am

Champion C46540 schematic showing AVR



Champion C46540 AVR



Posted By: BradW on 07/24/07 07:52am

Kober wrote:

People ask for advice in here and they should get the straight poop............


Kober, in a perfect work I would agree. Unfortunately, as you know, the Internet and Internet forums are full of misinformation. Picking the diamonds out of the BS can be extremely difficult sometimes. As you noted from your past experience, taking anything one reads on the Internet at face value can lead someone down a painful and expensive path. What’s the old saying? Buyer Beware.

Brad


Posted By: EricCO on 07/24/07 10:10am

Let me express my extreme displeasure for those that punish the rest of us with their cheap generators. How can anyone buy one of those and then use it in a campground? Total disrespect for others.

I was recently in Wyoming and a guy actually fired up his cheap contractor generator to charge his boat batteries. He then leaves to go have dinner somewhere or something. I was tempted to throw the dang thing in the lake. LOL

Even though I needed a generator many years ago, I didn't buy a cheap one because I have more respect for others than that.

If you run one of those loud cheap generators in a campground then you are a jerk. IMHO of course.


Posted By: EricCO on 07/24/07 11:13am

scottz wrote:

EricCO wrote:

Let me express my extreme displeasure for those that punish the rest of us with their cheap generators. How can anyone buy one of those and then use it in a campground? Total disrespect for others.

EricCO wrote:

If you run one of those loud cheap generators in a campground then you are a jerk. IMHO of course.

I haven't seen anyone suggest the cheap contractor generators you are referring to so I can only assume you are referring to the Champion generators. Please correct me if I am wrong in this assumption.

I want to clarify that the loud contractor generators approach and sometimes exceed 80db. The Champion is rated at 68db. To put that into perspective the Champion is quieter than the average RV forced air furnace. Click this link for more on this topic. Would I be a jerk if I ran my furnace at a campground?

Also to be clear the original poster asked about boondocking.


If you have to ask, then yes.


Posted By: btggraphix on 07/24/07 03:46pm

TCBob wrote:



Again I don't have a Generator compartment in my camper, so I guess it means lifting it in and out of the walkway. Where do you other guys with 8 and 8.5 length campers keep you units?



At risk from not having read the rest of the posts, I will answer this by itself, since I have the same camper as you.

I store the generator in the trailer IF I bring it, when I don't I normally place it in the hallway, where your feet go if you were seated in the middle of the dinette. As long as you have no spills of gasoline when filling it, or oil when you change it, and you keep the gas cap vent closed, you don't smell anything or have any drips. Sometimes I end up putting it on the step, but mostly, right there by the dinette. I we go off for a hike or bike ride, I leave it in the truck on the floor of the drivers side.

Good luck.
BT
PS: I'd be really surprised if it didn't run the 11K BTU AC....


2006 LanceMax 1191 - loaded and well-used
2005 C4500/Kodiak 4x4, GVWR 17,500



Posted By: FishPOET on 07/24/07 04:13pm

We all have to stop and think that people are spending their hard earned money on what people tell them in this forum. There is a great deal of responsibility that comes with that.

For that reason I very seldom post on topics unless I have first hand experience.

I have never used a Champion. It does seem heavy at 100 lbs dry for a portable.

From my 1000 hours of experience in the San Bernardino National Forest Volunteer Program I can say for a fact that I have NEVER seen anyone that bought a cheap generator and paid extra for the spark arrestor kit. IMO that is blatant disregard for our future generations ability to recreate in our forests.


Posted By: Reddog1 on 07/24/07 08:45pm

Folks, it is important to remember that we are all experts here. Would it be unfair to say that all of you with any kind of a generator was rude or whatever because you did not have solar as I do? I think this is a bad place to preach, be it on a given generator or an obsession with DRW or whatever else you think you are an expert in. It is certainly worth while to share your experiences, and keep in mind you are not the only one with an experience. It is also worth while to humble yourself from time to time, and consider others do not have the credit line you have.

This is probably just a wasted post, but it makes me feel better. Too bad I can't say what I would really like to, and to who I would like to say it to. At least some folks are consistent.

I guess I should stop before I have to moderate my own post.


Wayne

* This post was edited 07/24/07 08:55pm by Reddog1 *


Posted By: Reddog1 on 07/24/07 08:52pm

scottz - Pretty nice picture. Thanks for going to the trouble.


Wayne


Posted By: EricCO on 07/25/07 12:46pm

Reddog1 wrote:

Folks, it is important to remember that we are all experts here. Would it be unfair to say that all of you with any kind of a generator was rude or whatever because you did not have solar as I do? I think this is a bad place to preach, be it on a given generator or an obsession with DRW or whatever else you think you are an expert in. It is certainly worth while to share your experiences, and keep in mind you are not the only one with an experience. It is also worth while to humble yourself from time to time, and consider others do not have the credit line you have.

This is probably just a wasted post, but it makes me feel better. Too bad I can't say what I would really like to, and to who I would like to say it to. At least some folks are consistent.

I guess I should stop before I have to moderate my own post.


Wayne


Can you run your Air Conditioner and charge boat batteries with solar?

I have no credit line, but saved money to buy the generator I have now knowing that a loud cheap one would piss everyone off.

I am an expert on how much loud cheap generators piss me off. How can you question that?

I'm not trolling, just having dialogue. My overall purspose is so that poeple don't go buy a cheap loud generator that they don't use because they are worried about it upsetting others.


Posted By: scottz on 07/25/07 02:12pm

EricCO wrote:


Can you run your Air Conditioner and charge boat batteries with solar?

I have no credit line, but saved money to buy the generator I have now knowing that a loud cheap one would piss everyone off.

I am an expert on how much loud cheap generators piss me off. How can you question that?

I'm not trolling, just having dialogue. My overall purspose is so that poeple don't go buy a cheap loud generator that they don't use because they are worried about it upsetting others.


Those looks like troll comments to me.


Posted By: scottz on 07/25/07 02:41pm

FishPOET wrote:


From my 1000 hours of experience in the San Bernardino National Forest Volunteer Program I can say for a fact that I have NEVER seen anyone that bought a cheap generator and paid extra for the spark arrestor kit. IMO that is blatant disregard for our future generations ability to recreate in our forests.

To clarify the Champion C46540 DOES come with a USDA Forest Service Approved Spark Arrester.

* This post was edited 07/25/07 02:59pm by scottz *


Posted By: FishPOET on 07/25/07 03:29pm

scottz wrote:

To clarify the Champion C46540 DOES come with a USDA Forest Service Approved Spark Arrester.


The advertising says it is approved so it must be true?????????

It has been my experience that the Chinese manufacturers do not concern themselves with American rules, regulations or laws. Copyright, trademark, registered mean nothing to them. They stamp USDA approved on every spark arrestor, muffler and exhaust pipe that they ship to America. Hundreds of thousands of the Chinese knock off motorcycles, ATVs, ATUVs and generators have been sold and are now being used in the forest without USDA approved spark arrestors.

I will check with the SDTDC
http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/03511304/03511304.htm
and report back with the truth rather than rumor or advertising.


Posted By: btggraphix on 07/25/07 06:35pm

Wow....it took me quite awhile to get through all that. Glad I waited to even read it all, and just answered 1 little piece of TCBob's question. I kind of guessed by the number of pages the something went very very wrong with this thread.

These threads remind me of the fact us TC'ers seem to have the highest post to thread ratio of any of the forums. I just can't quite figure out the reason why.

Let's go back to safe topics like duallys and GVWR's.
BT


Posted By: Reddog1 on 07/26/07 10:43am

EricCO wrote:

Can you run your Air Conditioner and charge boat batteries with solar?

No, that is why I bought a 2000 Honda.

EricCO wrote:

I have no credit line, but saved money to buy the generator I have now knowing that a loud cheap one would piss everyone off.

I pretty much did the same thing. I prefer to be debt free, and live within my means. I am very pleased I did not have to save for several years for my Honda, or I probably would have bought one of those "cheapo pigs".

EricCO wrote:

I am an expert on how much loud cheap generators piss me off. How can you question that?

I would not question you on that. Actually, I find the generators that come in the TC's to be too loud, and offensive. There are times I wish they would all be replaced with a 2000 Honda. I would not be as bold and arrogant as to say they only get what they pay for. I do believe it is their choice, and I hope it serves their needs, they would not be my generators of choice.

EricCO wrote:

I'm not trolling, just having dialogue. My overall purspose is so that poeple don't go buy a cheap loud generator that they don't use because they are worried about it upsetting others.

I personally have no problem with having dialogue. Sometimes it gets heated, but even that can be OK. I did not see your post as trolling. Actually, I do not see any of the post on this thread (so far) as trolls.

To encourage someone not to run an offensive sounding generator in a campground is not a troll in my opinion. I think it is all in the presentation.

I think most of us take exception to comments and statements that are mightier than thou suggesting our equipment is a "pig" or "cheap". It is easy to make a comment like that, in a heated discussion, but when seen repeatedly, on several threads, it takes on a completely different meaning.

If one of us comments on something we read, and someone else offers evidence experienced and/or researched, I think we should at least consider it. After having been corrected several times, with supported information, perhaps we should consider we are not as knowledgeable as we thought we were, and ask more questions with fewer statements.

I apologize if this post sounds like a sermon, that is not my intent.


Wayne


Posted By: Reddog1 on 07/26/07 10:52am

FishPOET wrote:

I will check with the SDTDC
http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/03511304/03511304.htm
and report back with the truth rather than rumor or advertising.


A great idea. Thanks for posting the link for others to search.


Wayne


Posted By: Reddog1 on 07/26/07 10:54am

btggraphix wrote:

Wow....it took me quite awhile to get through all that. Glad I waited to even read it all, and just answered 1 little piece of TCBob's question. I kind of guessed by the number of pages the something went very very wrong with this thread.

These threads remind me of the fact us TC'ers seem to have the highest post to thread ratio of any of the forums. I just can't quite figure out the reason why.

Let's go back to safe topics like duallys and GVWR's.
BT


You are on the edge, and pushing it.


Posted By: SirHaakon on 06/07/08 12:57am

I just had to leave a post here and thank everyone for a wonderful evening of entertainment! :-)

I'm a filmmaker from Los Angeles and don't know the first thing about RVs or truck campers, and I actually found my way here because I'm currently looking for a good, portable generator to use on smaller/remote shoots with no electrical hookups and a need to use some higher wattage lights. Anyway, I'm sure by now you can guess that I found the site after a little bit of haphazard Googling!

To be honest, after going through several different threads, (Yes, I actually know how to use the search feature!) ;-) I have gained a lot of valuable information with which to use in my purchasing decision and I've even learned a little about cabs and boondocking and Class C vehicles along the way!

What brought me to actually registering and making a post, however, was that I just couldn't help but break into laughter after reading all the posts regarding Honda vs. Yamaha vs. Chinese Knockoffs and inverters that make the generator lounder vs. no they don't! and schematics showing AVR vs. Forest Service Approved Spark Arresters... and, wow... haha. To a guy who knows very little about any of this, it seems like absolutely silly things to get worked up over... but I gotta say, it doesn't matter what group you belong to or where you're from; it's pretty amazing how similar us internet folk can be. I come from a place where people argue Sony vs. Panasonic and Apple vs. PC all day long, and it is really comforting to know that we aren't the only crazy ones out there!! :-)

I will leave you now with tidings of peace and respect... but just remember, life is short and not worth taking too seriously!!

I'm very jealous of this group, and perhaps when I am older and have some extra time to kick around, I will find me a camper of my own and hit the dusty trail! For now, however, I have to get back to set - after purchasing my new Honda EU2000i of course. :-D

Cheers,

SirHaakon

P.S. - Best post goes to Mooney on page 6... you absolutely made my night!


Posted By: Mooney on 06/07/08 09:45am

SirHaakon wrote:


SirHaakon

P.S. - Best post goes to Mooney on page 6... you absolutely made my night!


You'all come back now, who knows you might find an idea for your next pilot here.

Better yet we might actually talk you into that RV sooner than you think.


Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 06/07/08 10:16am

I would venture that the "A" in AVR stands for "adjustable" and not "automatic" since how automatic can it be if the adjustment is a manual one. Things have a tendency to get mixed up when the manuals are translated into English by someone that doesn't speak it well. Notice the "sparking plug" label.

scottz wrote:

Champion C46540 schematic showing AVR



Champion C46540 AVR



Posted By: RichP on 06/07/08 05:29pm

How many times does this topic have to be addressed?? What is the "search" feature for??

I don't mean to start a war but the "portable generator" subject has been beaten to death more times than a rented mule.

Rich


RichP
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD Standard Cab, Long Bed,
1989 8' Palomino popup TC
Life member NRA



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