ttharrisons,
My thoughts exactly. Can anyone answer this question?
What are the differences in the abilities of a SRW & DRW? Not "I like this or that" but the actual numbers. If anyone can answer the question please also provide where you got the information.
Been there done that. I had a 03 Dodge 3500 SRW diesel 9900 GVW then purchased Ford 350 Super Duty DRW diesel 11400 GVW. Same 5ver. The only difference between the two vehicles are towing weight. The rear wheels made no difference. Of course the Ford tows much better then then Dodge did. Been a Dodge guy since 1989, stay away unless things have change in the last year.
I'd like to know where does the big 3 manufacturers state that at 'x' weight, you must go to a dually. A lot of you immediately responded that a dually is necessary with only a few saying their SRW does just fine. Are the weight/tow capacities different for SRW vs DRW
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The big 3 don't. That's the trouble. They only talk about "tow ratings" which is to do with pulling power. That is based on the GCWR which you get for the combined weight of trailer and truck. They use the lightest truck they have that has the most powerful engine to get the heaviest trailer to put in the brochure.
They ignore that the truck might (does) weigh more so that published tow rating is too high. They ignore pin weight which comes out of the GVWR, not the pulling power GCWR.
Using Chev 3500HD SRW and DRW (Ford is different as their SRW can carry more weight in the box than the Chev because Ford uses G tires instead of Es etc, but idea is the same for answering the question)
3500SRW has capacity for occupants and cargo of about 3,000 while 3500DRW has about 4,000. Check door sticker on any truck for actual numbers (that's where "it says that")
If each truck has a 200lb hitch added and two people and a dog and camping stuff for another 500lbs that takes 700 lbs out of that capacity. So now it's 2,300 vs 3,300 left for pin wt.
A typical 5er has 20% pin wt, so that is a 11,500 vs 16,500lb 5er.
Except the 23,500 GCWR of the dually and its truck weight of 11,400 (GVWR) minus remaining occupants and cargo capacity 3,300 =8,100 so 23.5K minus 8,100 =15,400 actual towing rating to GCWR.
In that case the dually is maxed for pulling power before it is maxed for carrying capacity.
The SRW example would have truck wt of 9,900-2,300=7,600 so the 22K GCWR -7,600= 14,400. So this truck is maxed out for carrying capacity before its pulling power is used up. (same thing as happens with 3/4 ton Diesels)
So the whole idea of the dually is to increase its carrying capacity so that it can carry the pin wt of what it can pull, while the SWR can't.
Published by Ford for my 2006 F-350 SRW 4X4 CC. Max tow = 15,500#, GVWR 11,500#. MVWR on my Designer is 15,800 leaving 4,250# of cargo load. As a weekend camper and 2 week vacation camper I have no where near 4200# of cargo. My truck weighs 7900# full of fuel. I am ok with a SRW. At 14,500# loaded wt, using 20% as hitch wt, I am at 2900#. I suspect the 14,500 might even be high. So that leaves me 600# for passengers. My wife and I dont weigh 1/2 that. The SRW makes sense to me and I use it for a lot more than pulling. I have pulled it w/ 25-30 mph cross winds, head on winds, angular winds. I have not felt anything to be unstable. In 2005, Ford beefed up frames on F-250 and F-350's and added larger brakes. That is why they went to 18" wheels. The increase was dramatic, like 4000 # in tow rating and a substantial increase in load capacity. They basically use the same frame as the F-450.
Let me make this simple. Weight the truck first. Then take that number from the truck's posted GVWR and that is what you can CARRY and still be within the truck's GVWR. Then take the weighed number from the GCWR and that is the weight you can TOW and still be under the truck's GCWR. It makes no difference whether the truck is SRW or DRW, 2X4 or 4X4, auto or manual. The same rules apply.
Anything beyond that is YOUR choice. That does not mean it is "illegal" nor does it mean the sky will fall on you. It means the manufacturer of the truck knows what they built and they feel the safety margin is made based on how THEY built the truck. I bought my truck because I trust them to know how they do their job. So because of that I also follow THEIR guidelines. What you do affects you and your family. IF you feel safe going over the truck's GVWR & GCWR, I am not going to condemn you for doing it. YOU make the final call. Good luck.
Frank
ND Couple wrote: Published by Ford for my 2006 F-350 SRW 4X4 CC. Max tow = 15,500#, GVWR 11,500#. MVWR on my Designer is 15,800 leaving 4,250# of cargo load. As a weekend camper and 2 week vacation camper I have no where near 4200# of cargo. My truck weighs 7900# full of fuel. I am ok with a SRW. At 14,500# loaded wt, using 20% as hitch wt, I am at 2900#. I suspect the 14,500 might even be high. So that leaves me 600# for passengers. My wife and I dont weigh 1/2 that. The SRW makes sense to me and I use it for a lot more than pulling. I have pulled it w/ 25-30 mph cross winds, head on winds, angular winds. I have not felt anything to be unstable. In 2005, Ford beefed up frames on F-250 and F-350's and added larger brakes. That is why they went to 18" wheels. The increase was dramatic, like 4000 # in tow rating and a substantial increase in load capacity. They basically use the same frame as the F-450.
Wow, that is pretty good. F350 SRW GVWR 11,500 and actual scaled weight of the truck with a full tank of fuel is 7,900 pounds. That leaves a real world payload of 3,600 pounds. You can tow a heck of a fiver with 3,600 of true payload. The newer F350 SRW can really tow up to the 15,000 pound tow rating without overloading the GVWR of the vehicle. Using the infamous 20% rule, a 15,000 pound fiver will have a 3,000 pound pin weight, leaving 700 pounds for passengers and cargo. That is the first SRW diesel pickup that can actually tow its max tow rating at max GCVWR without overloading the truck in the real world!
To the original poster, You need a dually or a Ford F350 SRW if you want to tow it within vehicle specs.
2004 Ford F250 Harley Davidson Edition
Crew cab short bed 4x4
6.0 PSD 5spd Auto 3.73LSD
2006 Cherokee 285B+
B&W companion 5th wheel hitch
Here we go again....PIN WEIGHT, PIN WEIGHT, PIN WEIGHT,, That is the amount of weight on the rear axle of your truck. Every truck has a spec,,find out what yours is.. Disregard every post that says..the truck pulls fine or the truck feels fine...how it pulls or how it feels has NOTHING to do with how much weight is on the rear axle of your truck..that is called PIN WEIGHT.
richfaa wrote: Here we go again....PIN WEIGHT, PIN WEIGHT, PIN WEIGHT,, That is the amount of weight on the rear axle of your truck. Every truck has a spec,,find out what yours is.. Disregard every post that says..the truck pulls fine or the truck feels fine...how it pulls or how it feels has NOTHING to do with how much weight is on the rear axle of your truck..that is called PIN WEIGHT.
It isn't necessary to buy a bigger truck if the pin weight is at or near the payload or axle rating. Often the axle is down rated to the max combined load capacity of the OE tires. A set of auxiliary springs, either air, like Airlift or Firestone, or rubber or urethane, like Timbrens, combined with tires rated for the load, will prove to be more than adequate as a TV but will still be comfortable to drive solo and will fit into regular parking spaces and garages.
As for the tow ratng issues, I can't believe that this argument is still carrying on after all these years. Lets get some facts straight. Get comfortable, this may take a little while.
Firstly, forget about the legality issues, they are non-starters. There is no set legal criteria for determining tow ratings so there is no basis for traffic violation charges or litigation unless it can be proven that the load is/was unsafe. 5% or so over the rating hardly falls into that category. Try pulling that 34RLQS with the magical F150 and you might, just might, have a case.
As for how tow ratings are normally determined, if you can corner an engineer from any of the tow vehicle manufacturers and get him/her to be honest, they will almost invariably tell you that the majority of the tow ratings are well under the actual tow capability of the vehicle.
They will also tell you that, after the engineers submit their recommendations for the various ratings, usually with an allowance built in for what happens next, the legal department looks them over and tries, usually successfully, to lower the ratings recommended by the engineers. Then the marketing gang gets into the fray and whines and pleads to have them raised to meet or better the competitions' ratings, until they all arrive at an agreed compromise, usually still well below the vehicle's actual capability.
I say usually, because sometimes the marketing gang get their way despite the legal beagles' and the technobods' best efforts. The aforementioned magical F150 is a case in point. A few years back, Ford adopted a marketing slogan for the F150 which was "highest tow rating in class". If memory serves, that was maximum 9400#.
Then along comes Nissan with their new Titan, announcing max 9600# tow rating. Within weeks, Ford issues a statement to the effect that they have upgraded the tow rating for the F150 to max 9900#. No explanation how they managed that with no changes to the vehicle, either mechanical or structural.
Then, last fall, just in advance of the new GM 1500 arriving, Toyota leaks some info on their new Tundra, due to be introduced in early 07. In that info was "tow rating in excess of 10000#". The General, not to be outdone by the new kid on the block, introduces the new 1500 with a max 10500# tow rating. Within weeks, Ford announces Me Too!! and upgrades their max tow rating to 10500#, still with no changes to the vehicle.
Next, the Tundra is introduced with a max tow rating of 10,800#. Within weeks Ford has full page ads and TV commercials extolling, yet again, "the highest tow rating in class" at max 11000#.!! Again, no changes to the F150. I tested an F150 before I bought my Titan. It was so anemic it could barley pull itself let alone 11000#!!
Bottom line? Get feedback from people with the same or similar TV/5W combos and then make up your own mind.
As for me, I ended up on this thread because we are looking at the same 34RLQS as a possibility. We will tow this, or similar, with the 07 Sierra Classic 2500HD in our sig.
For the HD Diesel Brigade, our 8.1 has a tow rating 1100# higher than the Duramax in the same 2500HD. Just need auxiliary air springs and the highest rated tires to cope with pinweight.
I checked some more on this. There is "NO" difference in the drivetrain, axles, brakes, engine, tranmission etc. of a new 2008 Chevy 2500HD and a 3500HD. Only suspension. Not frame! Just suspension. (Can you say Stiffer ride?) Tex
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