18seeds
Denver
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Joined: 04/27/2006
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In planning for my dream camper purchase i visited Outfitter and Hallmark. Here is my $0.02
Hallmark UTE XS VS. Outfitter APEX 8 (i have a SB dodge CTD 2500)
- Interior fit and finish - Hallmark (very impressive)
- Standard Features - Hallmark (standard 2 6v, electrical jacks, power roof)
- True 4 Season Use - Outfitter (They have a basement)
- Bath - Outfitter (more ceiling height i could barely stand up in the Hallmark)
- Door - Outfitters door is bigger than Hallmark.. Nice
- Weight - Hallmark 2,200 lbs, Outfitter 1,800 lbs. Personally i don't think weights are ever accurate. I do believe that the Hallmark roof has to weigh much more than Outfitters which is IMO pretty much where the most weight advantage can be.
- Customer Service - Tie - I feel very confident on both companies
- Professionism - Brian gave me a tour of Outfitter and Randy gave me a tour of Hallmark. Both very knowledgeable and nice. I would have to say that Outfitter is more professional based on some phone calls I made in the past to Hallmark. Note: My current visit with Randy was very positive but he sure is a unique individual...haha
Overall I am at a toss up. I would really like to know real world weights. I like the look and overall craftmanship of Hallmark slightly better but I really like the idea of a basement because I do a lot of winter camping. I know Hallmark now has a carbon fiber roof but i don't have an opinion on it yet. I will have air bags so i don't know if the weight should be that much of an issue.
Question: Do you think driving will be noticeably better in an outfitter because of the lower center of gravity? It is going to have a higher overall height vs a Hallmark.
Living in Colorado we are lucky to have a few (Lite-Craft, Hallmark, Outfitter) very good pop up manufactures to choose from. I will go and visit with my friends at Lite-Craft again also.
As far as price goes they are both expersive so a few grand here and there who really cares when this is your dream camper. 
* This post was
edited 10/03/07 03:59pm by 18seeds *
2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo DIESEL
Lite-Craft Camper
Snowmobile - 2008 Yamaha Nytro Mountain - TURBO
Selling the DirtBikes to Buy a Polaris RZR
Skis - Salomon Pocket Rockets
Mtn Bike - Gary Fisher Cake
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Testudo
Germantown, MD
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Joined: 09/21/2005
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Only _you_ can decide what is really important but you let on about a couple of important criteria (important to you). Namely, the Winter camping and the usability of the wet-bath. The 'basement' is a pretty impressive feature. It seems to me it trumps a lot of other stuff (Winter camping or otherwise). Also, the basement is the reason that the wet-bath is so usable.
If the Winter camping and a comfortable wet-bath height really aren't important to you, then is pretty hard for a third-party to quantify the buying process for you. The other comparatives are more of a toss-up.
Testudo & Princesse Caribou
2006 FORD F-250 5.4L 4x4 EC SB SRW
2006 OUTFITTER SUPER-Caribou 6.5
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d3500ram
9,500 feet in summit county, colorado
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Joined: 07/31/2006
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18seeds wrote:..the idea of a basement because I do a lot of winter camping. ...
Chris,
It seems like a "coin toss" between the two, but for the reason you state above- it would be the Outfitter if I had to choose.
2005 Dodge 3500 SRW, Qcab, NV-5600, diesel, 4WD, Helwig rear sway bar, 9000XL
T.W.C. (temporarily without camper)
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cewillis
Tucson, az, usa
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Joined: 01/24/2005
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Very interesting. Those are also two that I'm seriously considering. Thanks for posting this. Haven't been able to visit yet, but when I added up all the options I wanted, with prices from the websites, I was surprised to see that the Ute was more than $3K more than the Apex 8.
Not sure which would have the lower CG - the Ute is a little lower closed, but the Apex 8 has the tanks in the basement.
Probably can't go too far wrong with either -- if you want to spend the bucks.
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18seeds
Denver
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As far as price goes the Hallmark was cheaper with more options.
I really need to consider the benefits of the basement. I think that is really what is going to make me sway into the Outfitter direction. Brain said i could take his rig out for a spin to get an idea on how it drives. I will ask Hallmark if i can do the same.
I forgot to mention i understand that Hallmark's new composite exterior is just a shell but it sure does look slick. Both companies now offer a rear bumper which is cool also.
I love shopping for toys
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Nemo667
Louisiana
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Joined: 10/28/2004
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Real world weights...
We weighed the truck and camper in my signature. The truck first with a full tank of fuel and my wife behind the wheel=
Front: 4680#
Rear: 3220#
Plus me @ 210# = 8110#
Next we weighed the camper with my wife behind the wheel ready to camp full of water, propane, generator, etc.=
Front: 4800#
Rear: 6180#
Plus me @ 210# = a grand total of 11,190#
The truck handles this weight VERY well with just the stock suspension. The Apex 8 is little heavier than my original estimate of 2915# but, not by too much...
The rest of the post in the link above discusses Outfitter weight vs what I actually had on the scale. Outfitter was very close...
Good luck with your shopping 
2007 F-350 SRW 6.0L Auto CC SB 4X4
2006 Outfitter Apex 8, 220W Solar and 3 AGM's
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Fireballsocal
Rancho Cucamonga Ca.
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Joined: 08/11/2007
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Bare carbon fiber degrades in the sun. Be sure to ask what has been done to treat the CF if anything. I don't know if paint or gel coat will stop any degredation or not.
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gbutala
Colorado
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Steve_in_29
29 Palms, CA 92277
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I have never weighed either of my Outfitter's because my trucks (04/06/07 F350 SRWs) have handled the load of my heavily modified/optioned campers without the need for any suspension add-ons. I would say that my Apex 8 was at least as heavy as Nemo667's combo's weight of almost 3100lbs and my current Apex 9.5 is at least a couple of hundred pounds more. The current production Outfitters have replaced some wood with fiberglass so the weight of the basic camper will have decreased slightly.
The hallmark should actually have a slightly lower COG simply due to its lower overall height. The tanks for both are effectively in the same place (just not in a heated basement for the hallmark). The small difference in COG between the two is for all intents and purposes a moot point, I would be surprised if they aren't within an inch or two of each other.
The weights of identically equipped campers will probably be withing a few hundred pounds of each other and both will require air bags on your truck.
Fixing that carbon fiber roof (or even their standard fiberglass version) could get pretty expensive if you run it into something.
When I picked up my new Apex 9.5 I drove it home (CO to SoCal) through several good storms with high winds and heavy rains on twisty (relatively) mountain roads (I70). I was able to easily maintain 80mph and hardly knew the camper was back there. I only needed to slow down when the rain dropped the visibility. Not once did I experience a "white knuckle" moment.
While a couple of thousand dollars might be chump change to you, I (and I'm sure others) would rather spend that money on options or accessories.
The choice is yours but from what you mention of winter camping and more usable bath it seems the Outfitter fits your needs better. Plus even with the taller door on my Apex I still hit my head occasionally (talk about getting your attention) so I don't think I would like anything shorter.
* This post was
edited 09/29/07 10:59am by an administrator/moderator *
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cewillis
Tucson, az, usa
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Joined: 01/24/2005
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18seeds wrote:As far as price goes the Hallmark was cheaper with more options.
How are you getting that?
Base price: Apex 8 web site $18995 Ute email from Matt $26900
Loaded with options: Apex 8 $26305 Ute $29660
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