When I do calculations, I do not leave anything out. Including scheduled maintenance. Resale value fits in there too. Now, while your numbers work a $2 a gallon fuel, when you get realistic and start talking $5 a gallon fuel, there is no way that any gasoline engine in a truck large enough to tow a decent size trailer will be as economical to operate and own as a diesel powered unit.
I can appreciate your wanting to stick with old numbers on costs for energy. But, thanks to the declining value of the dollar, we are stuck with having to spend more of our hard earned dollars to enjoy our RV Lifestyle. If diesel were not more economical than gasoline, why do Europeans have more diesel engines in their vehicles than gasoline? The fact of the matter is that to move a decent size RV is an expensive proposition these days and the most economical and most sensible way of doing that is with diesel power.
If one reads about what the manufacturers are planning for the future to reduce fuel consumption and emissions, the new clean diesel technology appears to be an answer. A diesel engine is simply more efficient.
I'll say it again, the calculations for operating a diesel powered pickup properly show that at $2 or $3 a gallon the extra cost of the diesel power is not justifiable as far a cost recovery. But, increase the price to $4 or $5 a gallon for fuel and suddenly the diesel is much cheaper to own and operate than the gasoline version.
As far as the reliability of the 6.0 liter Ford PSD, most of the problems this engines have are caused by owners who use them for very short trips and/or leave the sit for extended periods of time, or they try to use biodiesel in them. The problems that my truck had were due to the short trip issue. They have been resolved and with the fuel mileage I get, I can still afford to buy fuel to enjoy RV'ing.
If you want to check the current numbers, Edmunds.com has a true cost to own calculator. Use it on the V10 and the 6.0, and you will find that using old fuel prices, there was only a .02 per mile difference between the two.
If you see the cost of fuel going back to between $2 or $3 a gallon, buy gasoline. If you are realistic about the value of the dollar and the fact that $5 a gallon fuel is just around the corner, it would be better to buy the diesel.
Merlin I stand by my calculations using real world numbers. You can try to dispute them all you like, but your numbers are based on your own predictions, not factual numbers. I prefer to calculate based on factual numbers that I can prove. The facts stand, you have to travel more than 100,000 miles to break even with a diesel. I ran the numbers for your $4.00 a gallon fuel, still takes more than 100,000 miles to break even.
Just for kicks, I ran the numbers at $5.00 a gallon gas, $5.30 a gallon diesel. I feel these numbers are way out there and are still at least 5 years away. At those prices, it would take between 82,000 and 83,000 miles to recoup an initial $7,000 investment in a diesel engine. That is not taking into account the much higher maintenance costs due to the gallons of oil it takes to replace the oil in a diesel versus quarts in the gasser. Or the requirement of replacing fuel filters and air filters more often. So even at around $5.00 a gallon it will take around 90,000 to 100,000 miles to break even.
Like I said before, if you want a diesel, and have the money, by all means get one and enjoy it. But if you want it to be a financially sound decision, plan on driving it for over 100,000 miles.
As far as the 6.0L PSD, good luck getting to 100,000 miles without an expensive maintenance and/or repair bill with that engine.
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I assume that you need a professional to work the figures. Try going to Edmunds.com and working out the true cost of ownership for any brand of HD truck in both gasoline and diesel. Realize that the fuel costs listed are for the previous week. They do all the work for you, including all the costs related to ownership. You will find that even at today's figures based on last week's fuel costs, there is a $.02 difference between gas and diesel. Factor in the future costs of fuel and its gasoline that makes little economic sense.
In the larger scheme of things, we have to take every opportunity that we can to save our energy resources. Thanks to the declining dollar and tight energy supplies, we are going to have to change our ways. One of the best things that can be done to do that and still enjoy Rving is to tow with a diesel. With gasoline TV's getting as low a 6 mpg and diesels getting as high as 14, even just based on the cost of fuel alone, it doesn't take much to see that diesel is more economical.
But, it's obvious that you are sold on gasoline power and no amount of facts or figures will work to change that. I can tell you that if gasoline was more economical, I would own a gasoline TV. I have put 20K miles on my TV since June, so, in my case diesel is the answer.
merlin, I assume YOU need a professional to do your calculations. I however know how to use a calculator and again based on my factual calculations, I stand by my figures.
If what you say is true and you have put 20,000 miles on your diesel since June, then it won't take you very long to travel the 100,000 miles plus it will take you to break even. Good for you.
For the vast majority of the RVing public, diesel is an expensive luxury. Yes they have superior towing capabilities, and are fun to drive while towing, but the numbers do not lie. Unless a person is towing a very heavy load and needs the higher capacity of a diesel engine, or is towing for many miles each year, diesel is just a luxury.
No I am not sold on gasoline power as the end all be all of powerplants. In fact I think diesel engines will become more widespread in the future. I just hope the manufacturers get away from this power war trying to be the most powerful on the planet, and get back to making diesel engines that are simple to maintain and get great fuel mileage. These new emissions devices have already caused fuel mileage to suffer on the 08 diesels, especially the Ford PSD. I will be eagerly waiting to see what happens, and with a little luck (and alot of money) I will be fortunate to own an efficient diesel in the future.
One thing that needs to be taken into consideration when calculating gas vs diesel is that everybody seems to be using the list price option on the diesel. When I negotiated on my truck and the gas version of the same truck there was only about a $5,000 difference between the two which not only gave me the diesel but also the Allison 6 speed tranny. I also have not seen the big jump in maintenance cost that everyone seems to keep talking about. For me diesel was a much better economic decision. It may not be for you though depending on the size and frequency of use of your camper.
Of course the more I think about this, if economics is that big of a factor why buy a truck and camper at all. It is a lot more economical to stay at home. Of course we made the decision not to stay at home. We also made the decision to get the TV that we felt best suited our needs. If in the long run I spend more on the truck I selected, so be it. We are happy and that is what counts. I hope that each of you are also happy with your selection and have a great time camping with your family.
2006 2500HD CC SB 4X4 Duramax/Allison
Prodigy/16K Reese/265E Tires/Bilstein Shocks
RM Active Suspension/RDS 60gal Toolbox combo
06 Aerolite Cub 236 ordered the way the DW wanted it
06 Chevy 2500HD CC SWB 4x4, LT3, LBZ, Duramax/Allison, Equalizer & Prodigy
06 Golf TDI (we are a 'Diesel Only' family)
Nope, don't think so. While I try to be economical, I also take into consideration the power and torque of the diesel. Maybe it's just a testosterone thing. For me, at least, if I was going to be that concerned about economical camping I'd still be towing a cargo trailer with a tent behind my Goldwing.
Recently, when the mileage on my Ford 6.0 dropped from 11-14 towing my Savoy to 10, I actually considered going back to gasoline. That is when I started doing my research and calculations as to cost of ownership.
I have fuel logs from a local hauler that has several V-10 Fords in his fleet right now. His mileage varies from 5.4 to 12.3, with an overall average of 9.1. Other than the miles driven, the fuel used, and the amount paid for the fuel, there is nothing else in the records. Although he did say that his average load was 12K poounds. I have several friends who tow TT's with the V10 who have said that their mileage is 6 to 7 mpg when towing.
The worst case fuel consumption on my 6.0 PSD was 10 mpg towing and that was after the EGR was serviced by Ford. After raising sand with them and getting the truck worked on, my mileage is back up to 11-14 towing. Since it appears that the V10 gets 6-7 towing TT's, that would indicate that to run gasoline would take just about double the fuel as the diesel.
Any way that we look at towing a TT, it is an expensive form of recreation. If you go with gasoline power, you choose to avoid paying a higher price for your TV, but you pay at the pump. If you choose diesel, you pay more for the truck, but spend less at the pump. It's that simple.
At $3 per gallon, the diesel is more expensive over five years. But, if you factor in $4,$5,or heaven forbid....$6 fuel, the diesel is the only choice that makes economic sense. The weak dollar is hurting us all whether we own gas or diesel.
I would never switch back, even to a V10 or a big block Chevy. My 2004 Dodge averages 11-14mpg towing and 18-21mpg unloaded depending on the conditions/load weight. The truck is fun to drive and easy to maintain. I'm sure that the big displacement gas motors will tow just fine but that turbo whine puts a smile on my face everytime.
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