I'm sure I'm going to get into trouble. My suggestions may not be well liked by many here.
My current rig has heated everything as long as the furnace works. As a back up to the furnace I have traced circuits so that I know where I can plug in 5 space heaters without overload. If I have to, I can power the space heaters from campground power or the genset.
My previous RV's were 3 season trailers. The waste tanks were completely exposed. I wanted to use them skiing so I did some research and testing.
First I tried using pink RV antifreeze (propylene glycol) in various amounts mixed with water in cups that I put in the freezer. Because RV antifreeze is already diluted, it takes take alot of it to do anything. I decided I would need a gallon of antifreeze for every gallon of waste water.
Then I tried automotive (radiator) antifreeze (ethylene glycol) in the same cups. It improves the protection a lot. If I remember right, it would not freeze up to about five to one in a freezer at zero. I could poor a gallon of antifreeze in the sink and be safe with about five gallons of waste water.
The trouble starts when you start asking questions about dumping the tanks. I knew some "old timers" that always poured a little Prestone into cabin toilets to prevent freezing, so maybe it would be OK!
Driven by curiosity I called the customer information number on the back of a bottle of Prestone. I was amazed when I got to talk to a real chemist. He told me that, in small amounts, antifreeze feeds the bacteria in the septic and sewer systems. NO YOU CAN'T DRINK IT. IT IS POISON TO MAMMELS. The chemist said that two or three gallons in a 1000 gallon septic tank could actually be good for it! He went on to say that a 50 gallon "slug" of anything would not be good in a 1000 gallon septic tank.
What about a city sewer system? He said any amount coming from an RV would harm nothing. Draining several gallons of antifreeze diluted with grey or black water into a system that processes millions of gallons would do nothing harmful or measurable. Bacteria would rapidly consume the antifreeze.
One more interesting thought. The antifreeze might be less harmful to the septic system than salt as is often used in bus black tanks.
I never took the trailers skiing because I was afraid of the driving conditions. I did buy 5 gallons of antifreeze when it was on sale but never used it. My plan was to put a gallon in the black tank and four in the grey tank for a ski weekend.
Logically, if ethylene glycol was truly hazardous (except for drinking) we would be required to use something else in our radiators. The current Prestone website says, "Disposal of used antifreeze/coolant: Follow local laws and regulations.....If permitted, dispose in sanitary sewer systems. Do not discard into storm sewers...."
If a person really wanted to worry about the effect of ethylene glycol disposal he or she could spend the money to buy "Low Tox" radiator antifreeze which is propylene glycol (like RV pink antifreeze) that is not diluted.
After all this, my recommendation would be to get the cheapest radiator antifreeze you can find and pour some into your unheated RV tanks. Carry a few extra gallons. If you use a lot of water or the temperature drops, pour in some more. My opinion is that it is the cheapest way to effectively prevent damage to fully exposed waste tanks.
DO NOT LET IT DRIP ON THE GROUND. DOGS LOVE TO LICK IT AND IT KILLS THEM!
Bill Sprague
2004 Beaver Monterey, 8.3 ISC 350 Cummins
2007 Ford Edge AWD
9 ft Quicksilver inflatable boat w/ 15 hp Suzuki
I have a 97 Bounder and it has a pair of 1" diameter furnace ducts into the area just above the black and gray water tanks, just like your Southwind has.
In my model, you can remove the drawers below the bedroom TV and actually see the heater ductwork. So the tanks will not freeze as long as you are comfortable in the motorhome. Because I am not running the furnace very much, I took a cheap thermostat with remote sensor and put the remote sensor down near the tanks, so I can watch it. Right now it is 34F outside, 65 inside and tank area is 43F. The more I run the furnace, the warmer that area gets.
But because my primary heat is electric portable heaters, the furnace stays off much of the time.
No need to run a droplight or anything near the tanks, just running the furnace a few minutes each hour will keep them above freezing. However heating the area where the tanks are located will allow heat to pass upwards through the floor and keep your feet a little warmer.
Fred.
Money can't buy happiness but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche or Country Coach!
dcgrazier wrote: If you are concerned, add some antifreeze. It won't hurt anything and give you peace of mind.
Dave G.
2000 CC Allure
BAD advise!!!! Propolene Glycol, the kind used to winterize your RV drinking water system, would be OK because it is NON-toxic. However IT IS ILLEGAL to dispose of Ethylene glycol anywhere except at a hazardous waste disposal site. Ethylene glycol, typical automotive anti-freeze, is very TOXIC and will contaminate sewage systems, often to the point of destruction of their ability to properly function. Don't do it unless you want to run the chance of JAIL time.
If you can touch pipes and or tanks, Google Ultraheat for the best solution. No, I do not work for them, never did.
Chuck
Wonderful Wife
Lovely German Shepherd.
1999 Mercedes ML320 TV
2003 Wanderer 187TB Toybox (3620# UVW, 4800# loaded) Not yet camped in Hawaii, 2 Canada Provinces, & 2 Territories. I can't be lost because I don't care where this lovely road is going
dcgrazier wrote: If you are concerned, add some antifreeze. It won't hurt anything and give you peace of mind.
Dave G.
2000 CC Allure
BAD advise!!!! Propylene Glycol, the kind used to winterize your RV drinking water system, would be OK because it is NON-toxic. However IT IS ILLEGAL to dispose of Ethylene glycol anywhere except at a hazardous waste disposal site. Ethylene glycol, typical automotive anti-freeze, is very TOXIC and will contaminate sewage systems, often to the point of destruction of their ability to properly function. Don't do it unless you want to run the chance of JAIL time.
I knew I would get flamed a little!
I do mean this respectfully, but I think you are mistaken about the legal part. You are correct that it is TOXIC for people and animals when they drink it. Animals will drink it because it tastes sweet.
Yes, if you were a commercial operation and had to dispose of 55 gallon drums and all you had was a household sized septic system you would destroy the ability for it to function. But, in my conversation with the chemist a few years ago, he said a little of it would promote the growth of the beneficial bacteria in a septic system.
I'm not an organic chemist. But, I thing the glycols, alcohols and sugars in the world are related and bacteria can consume them all. Hence, the Prestone people say you can dispose of it in a "sanitary sewer system".
Here is a link to the Prestone website. Click on the "Instructions" button and read the grey box that pops up about disposal. It is OK to send it down the drain of a sewer system as long as it is in "consumer", not "commercial" quantities.
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