My Suburban has leather seats, power everything and I put rubber floor mats in it. It does everything, goes everywhere, drives in the sand and surf with fishin' poles on the front, tows my 9000 lb trailer on the beach, and I listen to XM on my way home from the CG. I've got a bad a$$ 496 motor, a bulletproof tranny, full floating rear axle, HD leaf spring suspension, and enough cargo room to haul 4x8 sheet goods in the winter with the doors closed.
Then I take io to the car wash, throw in the 3rd seat, and take it to Manhattan to see a show. If there's something I'm missing about my 2001 (read: 21st century) SUV, please tell me what it is.
Now, they really are terrible gas-guzzling status symbols.
Ok, if you want a fancy car, fine. But in some ways they now fall short of the 1970's family wagon as far as their utility goes!
First of all, it can be nearly impossible to get a bench seat for the front. Along with that, here's this big fat center console that is almost so bad that I feel "boxed in"
They've gotten narrower in the back.
Then we've got cloth or leather seats and carpeted floors....Again, that's fine, but it can be dang hard to get vinyl seats and rubber floors. And I'm not talking a highway department crew here- what if you are hauling a load of cub scouts with soda and ice cream cones....the carpet and leather sure works well there! One of the best things we'd do to my Dad's suburban was park it on a hill and hose it out!
(Ok, I know you can still get some bench seats and some rubber floors, but then forget about electric windows or some other basic "comfort item"...those combinations are excluded!
Then you'd have truck motors, truck transmissions, truck camper mirrors and the option for a Class V receiver hitch....now we get hitches that have a reputation of breaking!
Just repeating above, but you seem locked into the little snazzy aerodynamic mirrors with a cortesy light....why can't we get the stuff that comes on a pickup truck that can be extended out for pulling a camper?
I guess the demand isn't there, but it's sad that it's so hard to get an SUV that is designed to get dirty and to haul a travel trailer....I like the term I've seen used here- just a gas-guzzling grocery hauler!
I doubt it would solve GM's problems to bring back some good ole Utility options to it's utility vehicles. (And not bashing GM exclusively here either!)
I enjoyed the OP's rant! I am not fully with it, but neither am I fully against it!
I will admit it's a little ironic that I cover my beautiful factory carpet with a large expensive all-weather rubber mat!
I also wish Nissan would consider a 9 passenger version of the Armada. Do I really need a center console big enough to swallow Rhode Island between me and my honey?
My factory mirrors had more features in and of themselves than everything in my 1st car combined! Not only were they power adjustable, but they folded inward at a push of a button. They auto-dimmed when bright light hit the surface, They were heated, they had puddle/courtesy lamps, and they had repeater turn signal indicators. Oh, and they had a memory setting...automatically adjusting for either the DW or me. Luckily I was able to bolt on REAL tow mirrors available on the Titan. They are made by the same company that makes Ford's great tow mirrors. I lost the power fold, puddle lights, and turn signal repeaters. But I am thankful for more than double the surface area, plus an additional convex mirror, the telescoping feature, and still have heat and memory.
I also have no complaints about my engine. This is a real truck engine as far as I'm concerned. I have no real need for 660 ft/lbs, so I "make do" with only 385 ft/lbs of torque.......Which by the way is the same as my 472 ci (7.7 liter) Cadillac V8 once adjusted from gross to net hp/torque. And ditto the transmission..............5 forward gears is better than 3 any day. And as great/strong as those old GM 4-speed granny-gear trannys were, I think I will stick with my wussy AT for city traffic.
Plus I won't lie...."utility" for me includes some luxury. I mean, I traded an Acura in for my current TV!
-2006 Nissan Armada LE 4x4
-2007 Coachmen 19FLB SE
-2007 Regal 1900 w/ 4.3 EFI Volvo
Supercharged wrote: 4-in-a-fiver and my statments make the same amount of since.
eurohazard wrote: I mean, I traded an Acura in for my current TV!
THAT'S what I'm talkin' about......
hehe
I can see I might need to clarify. It was an Acura MDX "SUV"....but it's more of a Honda minivan of an SUV. I still love the vehicle, but we wanted a TT, and knew the MDX wouldn't work as well as a truck based SUV.
I agree with you. It is fast getting that way in the 3/4 ton and up PU market. Hard to find anything between the extremes of luxury truck and road crew truck without ordering something.
05 Super Duty XLT CC 5.4/3.73 5 sp auto Torqshift
06 Keystone Hornet 29 RLS/(The"Cracker Cabana")
Reese HP Dual Cam
I've owned or been involved with off road vehicles since the mid 60's.
Way before SUV was coined. Loved that acronym initially, but now
hate it now that the 'fashion statement' crowd has adopted them.
They are no longer 'sports utility vehicles', as these types don't take
them off road, nor are into the activities that the coinage was based on.
This picture taken by chance shows what I mean. This guy didn't under
stand what the heck I meant when I asked if he ever took it off road.
He said "it would get messed up"...as if I was nuts. This Hummer is
now just a boulevard cruiser, not a true SUV. He was also parked in a
handicap space and no he did not have a placard, nor did he care.
The above isn't to say I don't like my vehicles to look nice, but add
'appropriate'. Mine has LT tires on 10inch wide rims, so it does have
'similar' side wall strength for boulevard cruising, but it is a 75
percent aspect ratio to allow good off roading 'cushioning' to absorb
off roading. The guy above said he took off the 'truck' tires and
put on Z rated tires as a brag. Sure they are very expensive tires for
exotics which can go over 180MPH, but can or should his Hummer?
The issues expressed by the OP is spot on and the why of it all is
that the OEM's have weighted our SUVs towards this 'fashion statement
crowd' because there is a huge profit margin from the bells and
whistles this type buys. And they do buy every available option and
then some.
My 1996 Sub has these bells and whistles because that is the only way
I could get the things I wanted. When going down the list with the
salesman, who was one of few who knew much about cars & trucks, kept
on saying 'you can't get that', or 'it only comes with'...
Wanted a manual tranny, but the factory does not offer that in this
trim level...wanted the 3rd row seat.
Wanted a manual 4x4 lever on the floor, but the factory does not offer
that in any Suburban, as the majority did not order that.
That went on and on, so the guy finally said he understood what I
wanted, but the factory has changed the offerings based on the majority
of the previous orders.
So after we discussed this, decided to order everything and then
change/fix things to my liking over time. As I keep my vehicles for
a loooooong time (see my sig) and can design and fab most anything.
My frustration continued when I found out that the 4x4 engagement
is a resistor heated liquid, which turned into a gas, which pressed a
bellows, which moved a lever, which moved a cog into the front diff
to engage it to the front drive shaft.
I leave my vehicle on some very tough and steep hills to go hike/camp
farther into the wilderness. This setup will have that resistor power
get turned off when the ignition is turned off. Then the vapor will
condense back to a liquid. Then the 4x4 will dis-engage. Stupid and
all for the 'ease' of use, or for the fashion statement crowd which
wanted a dash mounted 4x4 engagement system because they got confused
and intimidated by the floor levers of the old 4x4 system.
Then the computer operated 'motors' on the transfer case to move the
levers to engage 4x4 and hi/low 4x4. That motor system is over $500
bucks just for the parts and another min 4 hours of a technician using
a $40K test/scanner system to dial it in.
I can not 'fix' that thing if it should ever break out there in the
boonies, where as with the old manual system, I can and have on my
old trucks.
This list if long and you get the message of both my frustration and
what the industry is now compared to what it used to be.
The level of complexity is high, which means DIYers can't do much
without spending tons of money on custom tooling/scanners/etc.
Pickup trucks and SUVs used to be very reasonable, as they were
targeted to working and sports, not 'cars'. So they were of low
luxury and low cost. They now cost more than most cars...
Finally, the public dislike of "SUVs" is misplaced. PCness says it is
easier and more polite to attack or dislike the in-animate object,
but what they don't like is the 'person' who owns/drives these
trucks/SUVs/CUVs as fashion statements. Made worse as these have the
driver sitting higher and in more of a 'commanding' position, so
the types of person is already 'that' type, so they become even more
so and predatory in their driving towards others on the road.
I detest being lumped in with the 'fashion statement crowd' by the
PC crowd...
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
I'd bet a new suburban gets better milage than my family's old 75 buick estate wagon.
Sure, there have been improvements, but it would also be interesting to compare engines and tow capacities. I'm sure they are not identical, but I bet the wagon had a 400 & something engine, could pull one heck of a TT and had the Class V, weight-distributing receiver hitch option!
Thanks to all for having some fun cussing/discussing.
The only thing that really bugs me is the lack of middle ground on options.
It is a family/grocery hauler, so AC, cruise and electric windows are nice. But those items lock you out of rubber floors, a bench seat, camper-mirrors, manual transfer cases and manual transmissions, which is why some of us "rant" on "U" standting for "uptown" these days...
Here is the answer to your problem and for under 15K.
05 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT SC DRW 4X4 CTD G56 373's CAI,Edge Juice/Attitude,Jake,Rancho9000x,Torklift tie downs,Superhitch,Stable Loads
04 S&S Avalanche 9' with slide 26th Marines RVN 69-70 Semper Fi M-14 was the only Woodstock I saw in 1969.
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And ditto the transmission..............5 forward gears is better than 3 any day. And as great/strong as those old GM 4-speed granny-gear trannys were, I think I will stick with my wussy AT for city traffic.
