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Topic: maybe a problem with intelipower pd9055 inverter...

Posted By: parkerwarrior on 03/02/08 05:06pm

Intelipower problem:

Hello, I am having a problem on my 97 Southwind, and would appreciate any thoughts. Today I discovered that the starting battery (almost new) was completely discharged, even thought the MH has been plugged into shore power. House batteries were OK. Here is what I have diagnosed so far:

A: When no load is on the inverter, but plugged into shore power, a slight buzz comes from the unit, but as soon as any 12volt light or appliance is operated, the low level buzz goes away. The 12 volt side operates everything just fine, even with the the house battery switch in the Off position, so this means the inverter itself must be operating (if I pull shore power, the 12votl stuff goes off) I conclude.

B. The slight buzz also goes away when the house battery switch is turned on, and I take this to mean that a load is being put upon the inverter (just like turning on a 12volt light) andit is likely charging, although I could not quite pick up increased voltage on a voltage meter on the house batteries, but I suppose it might take time before the intellipower inverter decides to start charging.

C. But, when the Main battery switch is turned on (all else OFF, inverter doing its no load buzz) , the inverter continues to buzz, even when I activate the ignition and back up camera and know a load is, or should be upon, the inverter..

So, it would seem that the inverter, a PD 9055 Intelipower, is working, or working fine, but the charging connection to starting battery is compromised (if there is a connection!). No work, wiring, or other changes have taken place to the Southwind.

Now for the last few weeks, I did leave both house and starting battery switches on ( I have normally turned the starting battery off when parked) and am assuming the inverter would normally charge both house and starting batteries, But, I suppose I am not sure of that.

Comments and ideas appreciated, as spring break is soon approaching!


Posted By: Hurricaner on 03/02/08 05:10pm

Quote:

Now for the last few weeks, I did leave both house and starting battery switches on ( I have normally turned the starting battery off when parked) and am assuming the inverter would normally charge both house and starting batteries, But, I suppose I am not sure of that.
Some do and some don't.

Sam


Sam & Kari
Hurricane, Utah


2004 34' Damon Challenger 315


Posted By: FrontRangeRVer on 03/02/08 06:10pm

Hurricaner wrote:

Quote:

Now for the last few weeks, I did leave both house and starting battery switches on ( I have normally turned the starting battery off when parked) and am assuming the inverter would normally charge both house and starting batteries, But, I suppose I am not sure of that.
Some do and some don't.

Sam


Winnebago with a converter/charger, only charges the house batteries and NOT the chassis batteries while hooked up to shore power.


2015 Winnebago Forza 34T (arriving soon)
2006 Winnebago Voyage 35A (was a GREAT unit)
Workhorse W-22 Chassis, 6 speed Allison
Banks Torque Tube Headers
Dual Magnaflows
UltraPower ECM Tune


Posted By: 96Bounder30E on 03/02/08 06:53pm

Since you have a mid 90's Fleetwood Southwind..........your problem is most likely a bad circuit board that controls the switching between the house bats and the chassis bat.........It's quite common for the OEM circuit board to fail leaving you with a no charging of the chassis battery situation.......when plugged into shore power.......

Do you have a circuit board located under the hood in a metal box that looks like this?




Posted By: 07Endeavor on 03/02/08 06:59pm

Plugged in, mine does not charge the chassis battery.
I just flip the chassis cut-off switch to off when I leave it for more than a couple of days.


'07 HR Endeavor, 40PDQ
'07 Explorer Toad


Posted By: 96Bounder30E on 03/02/08 07:04pm

BTW..............a PD 9055 is a CONvertor...........not an INverter.....

A convertor converts 120volts AC into 12 volts DC

An inverter converts 12volts DC into 120 volts AC........


Posted By: tomousecap on 03/02/08 07:23pm

It is a very common problem with the Fleetwood Battery control center where the silver colored solenoid switch is not making contact intermittently. The function of the solenoid is to connect the two battery systems together charging while parked and hooked up. It also closes and charges the coach batteries when the engine is running. It also is used with the manual jump start switch to start when one of the battery sets is discharged. Carefully replace the solenoid and I bet your problems will be gone. We have replaced many of them and it is just a very common failure mode in that system. You can buy a silver plated terminal version instead of the stock copper terminal version at O'riellies. I will come back and edit this shortly with the better solenoid number. I have yet to see one that we couldn't fix with the solenoid replacement, not the expensive circuit board!

Info:If your chassis battery goes dead while parked with 110 volt hookup, this is the likely culprit!

If your coach batteries go dead while driving this is also the likely culprit!


I don't recall if I told you that our coach is having a problem that also occurred on our 96. The chassis battery will sometimes lose it's charge while the shore line is hooked up and power on. The culprit is the starter style solenoid that is visible inside the battery control center chassis/coach interface box under the hood or in the top of the propane compartment. It is engaged automatically by the solid state controller circuit after a short timeout when ever the shore power is on so both battery sets are maintained. They use a cheap copper contact solenoid that corrodes quickly when engaged for long periods of time. The cure is to get number BWD-S 603 solenoid from O-Reilly's Auto Stores. It has silver plated contacts and will not deteriorate so easily. The solenoid is the same one that engages when you use the push to jump start switch. I have fixed ours temp both times by just engaging the jump start switch rapidly several times. The S 603 runs $29.99 as opposed to the Fleetwood copper part for $48.00. Anyway if you have the problem you now know where to look. Since this is the second coach with the problem I was watching it closer then usual and caught it before it went clear dead.

By the way another way to verify the solenoid is the problem would be to use a digital volt meter and check the voltage to ground on each of the two heavy terminals on the solenoid switch. One would be lower then the other with the engine running as we talked indicating no or poor connection through the solenoid.

I know my answer is a little fragmented, but I didn't take time to edit several posts from seminar notes that I just copied and pasted as is. The info is self explanatory.

* This post was edited 03/02/08 07:51pm by tomousecap *


Bob
2007 Fleetwood Bounder - Full Paint 35E
Workhorse 6 Speed 496 Cubic Inch V8 - W22
Ford fans - RPM is a poor substitute for Cubic Inches!
2013 Chev Volt - Towing on a Master Tow Dolly
Gracie = Adopted longhair Amazon Chihuahua


Scavenger Power Exh. Installed.



Posted By: RLS7201 on 03/02/08 07:49pm

The advice given by 96Bounder30E is spot on. When on shore power your control center should start charging your chassis battery when the house batteries reach aprox. 13.3 volts. Eric's picture showes a RV Custom Products CB-115 circuit board, with one silver relay. If you have two silver relays then you have a CB-200 circuit board. First check to make sure the silver relay(s) are functioning. They have a high failure rate. If the relay(s) are good then drop Eric or I a private message and we can tell you where to purchase a new circuit board at a resonable price.


Posted By: parkerwarrior on 03/03/08 08:20am

Outstanding! thanks for the help. I did not mention in my original write up of the problem that when I depressed the dash mounted battery jumper switch, there was still no sign of life of power to start the Southwind, so I suspect that the relay/solenoid is the likely culprit. Does it look pretty much like a Ford remote mounted, barrel style starter solenoid? Or is it square? I do have the circuit board in a box in the engine compartment (replaced a couple of years ago). Thanks again for the help.


Posted By: tomousecap on 03/03/08 09:07am

Yes, the solenoid switch in question is just like the old Ford solenoids.

Never work on the (B)battery (C)ontrol (C)enter with out disconnecting all

batteries and removing the roof mounted solar panel fuse (FIRST) in the BCC. If

you disconnect the batteries and the coach is parked out in a bright sunny day,

the solar panel can put 18-24 Volts into the BCC circuit board because of the

lack of battery load to charge. That can be why there are occasional failures of

the BCC circuit board. Again 9 out of 10 failures of the chassis battery charging

circuit while parked are caused by the corrosion in the solenoid switch that can

be cured by changing to the better one (BWD S-603) with silver plated contacts

inside.


Posted By: parkerwarrior on 03/03/08 06:02pm

OK, I found my two solenoids, they are behind the battery control center circuit board. I can figure out which is for the starting battery. All this does bring up the question of what is happening when I push the dash mounted assist switch which I suppose hooks all batteries together to help start the generator or engine. Is their a third solenoid in the system, or how is that connection between the two sets of batteries taking place? I dont here any "thunk" when I press the dash switch, like I do when I press the main disconnects, so I am not sure what it is doing. Thanks again


Posted By: tomousecap on 03/04/08 09:45am

The silver colored solenoid of which there is only one on your coach handles both the starter jump function and battery connection for charging. It doesn't make as much noise as the disconnect sliding switches make. You would have to check for voltage at the small terminals on the silver solenoid while holding the jump start switch down to verify that circuit.

The circuit board energizes the silver solenoid any time either battery system shows a significant higher voltage then the other which would indicate you are on shore power or the engine is running. So you see the silver solenoid is key to three different operations in effect. Although this system can be troublesome at times it is better then a lot of coaches have without any chassis battery charging circuit when on shore power. I give credit to Fleetwood for using it. It is a significant cost addition to the coaches.


Posted By: 96Bounder30E on 03/04/08 10:07am

I couldn't hear the "Thunk" either and there was no voltage to either of the small wires on the silver solenoid when the dash button was being pushed which meant that solenoid wasn't being energized by the circuit board..........

In the end, replacing the circuit board fixed the two problems I was experiencing......the cross over switch and the chassis battery which wasn't being charged on shore power.......


BTW......at 12 years old......I still haven't repalced my silver solenoid....


Posted By: parkerwarrior on 03/04/08 10:40am

Ok, great info, did look closer and indeed it seems that I have only one silver solenoid, the other two being large and square. A previous owner had done something dumb and blown the original board; the BCC card on the southwind is about 4 years old, looks new (new does not mean much, but at least its not old with burned parts!)

So, this would now see to be a matter of poking around for voltage on the terminals of the silver solenoid. it sounds like the previous post is suggesting the silver sol function is going through the BCC card...I cant see the silver solenoid behind the BCC card, but I expect that it is a single pole, single throw desing, with the coil being 12vdc and ground-I hope. If so, any troublshooting thoughts would be great-for instance, with a helper rocking the dash assist switch, i presume I should see voltage on the coil terminal, and voltage then present at the power terminal? If the silver sol switch is activating/getting power, that would seem to clear the board. Silver solenoid getting power, but not switching main power, I would condemn the solenoid-Is this thinking sound? thanks for all the help!


Posted By: 96Bounder30E on 03/04/08 11:28am

I think you've got a handle on what to look for.......


The other thing you can do is.....disconnect the 2 small wires on the silver solenoid and run a couple of temporary wires from a good battery or other known 12v source and hot wire the solenoid.....if it makes the "thunk" then look for voltage on both sides of the solenoid in the 13.2-13.6 range........

This should confirm that the solenoid is good and the circuit board is bad.....


Posted By: parkerwarrior on 03/04/08 01:21pm

OK, do you suppose that the dash mounted switch is so wimpy that it has to hit a relay or some other component on the board to then in turn energize the solenoid? I see a whold bank of small cube relays in the same box, but I am likely getting to far ahead, i will check the solenoid-thanks.


Posted By: parkerwarrior on 03/05/08 07:24am

I did some troubleshooting last night, but because the silver solenoid is mostly behind the BCC board, I was limited on what I can do without disassemble.
My first question is this: are the two small coil terminals on the solenoid 12vdc + and 12 Common? Or are they both isolated + terminals, with the coil body serving as the common path? I could not figure that our without disconnecting a lot of stuff.

I hooked up a voltage meter to various parts, mounted it so I could see it through the windshield, and could never get any voltage change (but did see brief minor fluctuations) by rocking the battery assist switch. 12vdc continued to sit on one of the solenoids terminals the entire time. However, I did not really know whether to unplug shore power, which set of batteries to disconnect, and so forth.

I will jump in deeper this weekend, thanks for the help.


Posted By: atwoodclan on 05/04/08 07:33pm

parkerwarrior: I'm interested to hear how this came out. I've been following this with interest as I have a similar issue.

RL S7201; I sent you a pm in hope of receiving some circuit board info.

tomousecap: I'm in the middle of replacing the solenoid as you had mentioned.

Thanks,

* This post was edited 05/05/08 02:54am by atwoodclan *


Posted By: Wayne Dohnal on 05/04/08 11:07pm

Just FYI, the converter noise you hear with no load could be pulse skipping.


2009 Fleetwood Icon 24A
Honda Fit dinghy with US Gear brake system
LinkPro battery monitor - EU2000i generator


Posted By: wa8yxm on 05/05/08 08:19am

The converter charges the house batteries.. ON SOME COACHES there is a battery control center which will also charge the chassis battery once the house is full enough (not full but full enough) however the key phrase is ON SOME COACHES

on other coaches this is not the case

There is an after market device called a "Trick-l-start" If I recall correctly

it takes care of this problem by allowing the house system to charge the chassis battery provided the house is fully charged.

Other threads here refer to it.


Home is where I park it.
Kenwood TS-2000 housed in a 2005 Damon Intruder 377



Posted By: parkerwarrior on 05/05/08 01:20pm

Well, now I a a follower, since I have done nothing more but always turn off the coach battery and put it on the "list" of things to remember. Now that I think about it, i did remember hitting the dash mounted battery booster assist button, and got no response, no solenoid thumping, no extra boost to start the engine, even though th house batteries were good and charged. Assuming this solenoid connects the two, i did interprept this as a pretty good sign that an issue lay somewhere else, like with the BCC card. That card is newish, by the way, having been replaced by the former owner, and all else seems to work OK, so my enthusiasm on operating has limited under the "if it broke all that bad, dont fix it" rule.

On the other hand I would like it fixed and still seek the answer, are the two small teminals on the silver solenoid just a 12v and common connection, of is that solenoid grounded by mouunting to the chassis? My next step is to jump 12volts to the solenoid directly and seem if its load terminal path is completed, thus ruling out the solenoid. Regretfully, my solenoid is sort of behind the bcc card, so it will take a careful effort to access it to disconnect and test-I probably ought replace it when I am there.

Comments are appreciated!


Posted By: 96Bounder30E on 05/05/08 01:46pm

It's MOST LIKELY gonna be one of 2 things and both have been discussed already in this thread.......the silver relay which is very easy to test or the circuit board even though it's already been replaced.......if it's not the silver relay......then the circuit board is the likely culprit........


If none of this makes sense to you.....it might be best to take it somewhere and let the pros fix it!


Posted By: dubl07 on 12/12/08 09:09am

I have a couple of related questions. My 98 Discovey DP has just experienced complete battery failure. It had been sitting outside with shore power plugged in for several months, starting and moving it approximately 30' every week or so. I've never experienced any low battery symptoms and I assume between the two solar panels and the shore power the batteries have remained 'topped off'. Thanksgiving week we drove 800 miles and parked it, connecting to shore power, stayed 3 days and drove 300 miles again plugging in when we stopped for 3 more days, went to return home and the batteries were too weak to turn the engine over. The batteries are at least 4 years old and I would assume several years older. There are two large DEKKA AGM batteries on the top shelf (I assume they are considered the 'main' and necessary for starting, and there are 4 smaller grey sealed batteries below (wired in parallel so I guess they're 12 volts as well). The generator would not turn over even when I used the alternate battery switch... finally the questions :-)

Should I suspect solenoid problems even if I hear a clicking sound in the daytime when the solar panels would be trying to charge (clicks quite often while this is occuring). Should I suspect a Inverter/Charger problem (has 3000 watt Trace) or should I start by replacing the batteries due to their age and hope all else is ok?

If I replace the batteries where is a good place to find the AGM batteries in Houston, TX and how much should I expect to pay for all 6? I assume that since the battery compartment is by the engine under the bedroom that these type of batteries are 'safer' than standard marine 'deep cycle' batteries and are definitely less maintenance w/o concern for water levels.

Other question would be how do I determine the 'best' battery for the system as I can't find any 'factory' specs, should I just look for 'exact' replacements. And finally, several of the posts I have read suggest that I should use the disconnect switches whenever I am 'storing' the RV and plugged into shore power... does that affect the life of the battery when the solar panels and Trace are always 'topping off' the batteries, even when the disconnects are thrown?

Sorry for the long message and thanks in advance for any help you can offer
Oblivious


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