I would have to say that some of you are mathematically challenged. Either that or you are believing the DIC. Or you are taking one fluke tank where you didn't actually get it full because of foam and then forgot about the next tank that had 20% worse mileage.
I have had 5 diesels over the years.
93 6.5TD(auto) best average 20.3, 11 towing 3.73 gears
2001 Duramax(auto) best average 20.1(running 50-55mph for 360 miles, road construction) cumulative average was 17.4, Never towed. 3.73 gears
2002 Duramax (manual) best average 18, never towed long enough to accurately measure mileage. One tank with only 120 miles towing a skid steer averaged 14.2. Cumulative average was 17.5. 3.73 gears
96 Ford PSD(manual) best average 18.0, best towing 11.6, worst towing 9.1. 4.10 gears with Gear Vendor
99 Ford PSD(manual) best average 17.8, best towing 11.2, worst towing 8.2. Cumulative so far 16.3. 3.73 gears
All trucks except for the 93 Chevy were 4WD.
I have been using the same mileage log book for twenty years so these numbers are not from memory.
Mileage claims on forums are a lot like fish stories.
Edited to add gear ratios.
* This post was
edited 03/18/08 07:20am by Wolley *
2001 Sea Breeze fiver. National Built one Heavy Pig! Heavy is good, right?
1999 F250 4X4 PSD CC LB HandshakerFalcon Weather
I have a 2000 F250 7.3 PSD 4x4 that I purchased new. The only thing I have to compare it to is the '89 F250 460 4x4 that I had before it. In the west we drive fairly fast with 75 mph limits, so I like to keep up with traffic at that speed. At the time I was pulling a 24' 5er. The 460 was struggling with it, getting horrible mileage -- around 6-7 mpg towing and 10-12 mpg empty. Pulling the camper at 75 mph was impossible with any head wind, and even without a wind it was tough to get up to speed and hold it up the slightest incline.
I fell in love with that new diesel the first time I towed. No more struggling to get to 75, and it'll hold close to that speed up all but the steepest, longest hills. We traded for a 30' camper shortly after getting the new truck, and it pulled it just about as effortlessly, and now pull a 27'. You just hardly notice it's back there when driving down the road. I average about 12 mpg towing and 16 mpg empty, but empty you'll catch me pushing that 75 a bit, keeping up with the fast lane instead of the slow lane. When driving slower, off the interstate, I get 18-20 mpg. Around town it's about 18.
When we decided on the diesel things were a little different. Diesel fuel was $1.25/gallon, while gas was about $1.60. We thought we'd be driving more miles -- like 15,000-20,000 per year. In fact, we've only been driving it about 8,000 miles per year. Had I known these things when we bought it, we'd probably have gone with a V-10.
But we're wanting to trade trucks again soon, and we're not even considering a gasser. We're hooked on the diesels now, and since we're wanting the new truck so we can get a bigger 5er and fulltime, there's no way on God's Earth we'll be going back to gas. (Please note that I'm in Wyoming, so we do a fair amount of mountainous driving.)
As for short trip damage, I use mine as a daily errand vehicle. I run a few blocks to the bank or post office, go out to lunch, etc. We're in a smallish town (30,000), so most of the trips are short. I have had several glow plugs replaced, all under warranty, and that might be from so much starting. (To compound the problem, I usually must turn off the engine when ordering food from Mac's Lounge, getting beer from the drive-up liquor window, dropping off a deposit at the bank's drive-up window, etc., because the person inside can't hear me over the diesel engine.)
It's sat outside since new. If we're expecting the temperature to drop below zero I usually plug it in, but there have been many times when I didn't plug it in and it's started in -30F temps. (And I still have the original, eight-year-old batteries in it.)
My wife likes riding in the truck on longer trips, even without the 5er, so it's become our main transportation vehicle rather than her car. (When we bought it I traded in my old F250 plus my Lexus, so the only other vehicle we have is her little Saturn 2+2.)
Following up on Wolly's post..As we all know, if we fuel Diesel, it foams a lot. I can squeeze in another up to 4 gallons sometimes more diesel fuel after the auto shutoff due to foaming. If I am checking milage we fill till we can see diesel fuel in the filler tube run 200 miles or so then fill to the lip of the filler tube again..That is the ONLY way to properly check MPG..... Diesel or Gas. Our On board computer MPG O meter, under those circumstances is within .3 mpg of a hand calculation. This 08 6.4 gets peak MPG at 63/65 MPH (4:10LS) Towing or not towing.. At higher speeds the MPG drops....a lot..
newk's post is also a good one.. although the short trips are not good for a diesel..Got to keep those EGT's up, The new ones are even worse with the regeneration, That is offset by living and driving in Mountainous terrian.
We have pulled with both and they both did a good job but on steep grades and high altitudes..the diesel is the best motor.
Not so much as you might think. Fords weigh about 1000 pounds more than the competition.
I have 50,000 miles on my '05 F250 6.0 and haven't had any major problems. I drive fairly conservative now and get 12-13 MPG in town with little freeway driving. When it was new I got 13-14 MPG. When towing around 14,000 pounds I get 9 MPG average at around 70 MPH. I haven't done any bobtail trips for the last year so I don't know what the MPG with the truck empty is, probably 17-18 MPG at 65-70 MPH and 15-16 MPG at 80 MPH. You must factor the hills in, Arizona is not very flat.
Every time Ford has reflashed the computer I have seen a decline in both power and economy. I would like to see the dyno readings between the new fuel and Ford fiddling with the computer as to how much power has been lost.
The cost of fuel and filter changes does add up. If I didn't live in a mountainous region I would do some calculations on gas vs diesel.
* This post was
edited 03/17/08 08:26am by hypoxia *
Mileage:
Around Town Unloaded: 15
Highway unloaded: 18-19
Loaded (typically highway): 9-11
Driving Habits:
Around Town: 60-65
Highway: 65-70
Loaded: No more than 65
I drive the truck pretty easy (I want it to last a very long time). I use the tow/haul mode whenever I have the trailer connected. I use cruise control whenever I can.
I registered my first 9 MPG trip coming home from Tyler State Park a couple weeks ago. The wind was terrible...worst I've driven in with the trailer. I was actually surprised the mileage was that good considering the wind.
Should you go with a diesel? As you can see from the arguments made there is much to consider. It is easy to get spinning in circles with all of the topics brought up. I will add my point that I've never heard a diesel owner complain that they wish they bought a gas truck because they didn't have enough power.
When I bought my truck I was coming from an underpowered vehicle so the frustration of that was still very fresh. I never allowed myself to even think about getting a gas truck. I was buying a big, heavy trailer and wanted the best equipment for the job. In my mind, that meant a diesel.
One other note to think about...I have a friend who pulls a 35' 5ver with a gas truck. He gets about 5 or 6 MPG's towing. He has stated on more than one occasion the most frustrating part of owning his gas truck is the range. He has to fill up very often and when pulling a 5ver that can be very aggravating and challenging. He also said it is very frustrating when he is traveling in a group.
If you can afford it, the diesel would not be a bad choice.
Diesel prices will go up and they will go down just as gas will. I myself would not let that drive my decision. Decisions based on the constants will have more longevity.
Best of luck,
TTR
TreeTopRanch
2007 Ford F350 Dually PSD King Ranch/Chrome FX4
2008 K-Z Montego Bay 36REB-3
I have the 08 F350, 6.4L, Tow Boss, LB, DRW, CC, 4:30 rear. This combo develops almost top torque (650ft/lbs) at ~1950RPM/55MPH in O.D. Open road milage, empty, is about 15.2 MPG, and around town, 13.1 average. Will be pulling a fiver weighing as much as 15.8K.
Am told by others that I can anticipate 10-12 MPG while pulling, but I can do 7% grades in O.D. with no difficulty. Winding mountain roads will probably drop my milage because I will be in Tow/Haul mode to traverse switchbacks.
Although I use the truck as my daily driver, it is set up to tow. Didn't anticipate the rapid rise in diesel fuel costs, but I would not try to do with a gasser or lesser truck what we have planned.
It's a matter of choices.
Chuck USN Ret, Navy Flight Test Engr
Kay, The Bride (43 yrs) Ret Nurse, High School Media Specialist
Christopher, Our Velcro Child
08 F350 Lariat 4X4, 6.4, 5spd auto, DRW 4.30 rear, Tow Boss, CC, LB, Linux
08 Jayco Eagle 341 RLQS, Moryde pin box, shocks
Why not visit the various forums for the trucks you
are considering buying? (Ford, Dodge, GM)
~
MANY, many more threads/posts on everything you want to
know/learn about your possible choices - including mpg discussions.
~
Also - check out the posters with PROBLEMS.
They're NOT bashing - 'cause they own one!
Gives you an idea of the good, bad, and maybe the ugly.
~
There are several forums for each brand - lots of reading and
learning to do. Join and ask questions!
JC
~
On edit - observations & FYIs:
You -ARE- in the driver's seat now (no pun intended) -
no matter what brand - gas or diesel - *new or used*.
~
New:
You had to "work" at it a bit to buy -BELOW- dealer invoice
a few months ago - but should be a "piece of cake" now, even for
stock (inventory) on the dealer's lots.
~
Ignore "MSRP", check what dealer -INVOICE- is via kelly, edmonds, etc.,and the "Dealer Holdback" for the brand you want. You will
then come close to knowing dealer -COST-.
(There are mfgr incentives for dealers that you won't know).
~
Negotiate your best deal -BEFORE- any mfgr rebates, before
tax and license (they use all those for smoke screens - and
they are cast in concrete anyway).
~
And remember . . . .NEVER, never - talk to a salesperson!
When you have the above ducks in a row - make an appt with the
fleet manager at several dealerships.
~
It's YOUR money, might as well hang on to as much of it as you can
to buy fuel, LOL!
* This post was
last
edited 03/18/08 12:23pm by ol Bombero-JC *
View edit history
I get 10-12 pulling and 16-18 empty. The wind makes a huge difference as you all know and in ND, we rarely get to pull in no wind. It is a real treat when we do. This is the 6L and I haven't felt short of power yet. It pulls terrific. Anymore, I think the favor may be edging towards gas because of diesel prices and higher maintenance costs on a diesel. Used to be the higher MPG and the lower cost of diesel offset the higher cost of the engine. That isn't as true now.
10.5 to 11 MPG towing our 11,000 lb 5er (average over thousands of miles of flat highway, hills and very steep grades), 18 MPG unloaded and on the highway, 14 around town in city stop and go.
With the fuel cost up past $4.00/gal it hurts every time we fill fill up but when you're towing that rig up a 6 mile long 6% grade the smile factor makes up the difference in cost. To us it's really about the pulling power vs. the gas motors that makes it worth the extra cost. I guess if you did the math it might not be such a big deal when you factor in the higher fuel cost of the diesel and the lower milage of the gas but as I said, to me its worth it in the end.
John
John
The Rutters
2004 Ford F350 Crewcab Lariat FX4 (4x4) DRW
6.0 PSD, Torque Shift, Jack Rabbit roll top cover, Rosen widescreen DVD system
Wolley wrote: I would have to say that some of you are mathematically challenged. Either that or you are believing the DIC. Or you are taking one fluke tank where you didn't actually get it full because of foam and then forgot about the next tank that had 20% worse mileage.
I have had 5 diesels over the years.
93 6.5TD(auto) best average 20.3, 11 towing
2001 Duramax(auto) best average 20.1(running 50-55mph for 360 miles, road construction) cumulative average was 17.4, Never towed.
2002 Duramax (manual) best average 18, never towed long enough to accurately measure mileage. One tank with only 120 miles towing a skid steer averaged 14.2. Cumulative average was 17.5.
96 Ford PSD(manual) best average 18.0, best towing 11.6, worst towing 9.1.
99 Ford PSD(manual) best average 17.8, best towing 11.2, worst towing 8.2. Cumulative so far 16.3.
All trucks except for the 93 Chevy were 4WD.
I have been using the same mileage log book for twenty years so these numbers are not from memory.
Mileage claims on forums are a lot like fish stories.
Hi All.
All in all, you really didn't do that bad with your miliage on your different trucks. But where you lost some of your miliage, is that all, but one of your trucks were all 4X4's, which also gets less MPG that a two wheel drive. And in 1999, Ford made a lot of changres to the 7.3 PSD, it got more HP's than older models, but it also go more junk put on the motor also which brought down the miliage. Just like my 97, same in 96, the only rear-end you got was a 3:73 gears, as there were no other choices. Which actually helped with getting better MPG. 4:10 rear ends get even worse MPG. I am well past the 21 mpg and then some, with my 97 F-250 H.D. 7.3 PSD with the Extended-Cab, two wheel drive, and 3:37 rear end. But I am also running a SuperChips Tunner/Programmer. I also keep very good records of my miliage. But I won't tell what the very best that I get out of my PSD, because there are to many narrow minded people on this Forum, and it just isn't worth the hassel you get from them. But like I said, I have gone well past the best origianl 21.46 MPG after the install of the Superchips Tunner/Programmer. And a lot has to due with what size and what weight 5er or TT that you tow. The heavier the towable RV, the less MPG your going to get. Also driving habits have a lot to do with getting better MPG also. But thank you for sharing your info from your own records. As I am sure that it will more than likely help out someone who is thinking about getting a Diesel Truck. We have had both, and keep records on both. For us, it will always be a Diesel now. If for no other reason, its a lot easier on the driver with a Diesel. As the harder you pull them, the better they like it, and can handle it. Espically in the Mountains, its the differance between day and night. But we would buy used, not new. Happy Camping, Dan & Jill
1997 Ford F-250, H.D. Extended-Cab, Short Bed, 7.3 PSD, K&N Air Filter, 5000 lbs air bags w/on board compressor w/guage, SuperChips Tuner/Programer. 1996 Nash 24fter 5er, 15K "Lil" Rocker Hitch w/BedSaver, Twin EU2000i Gen's W/Kit. Nam-Vet, 33 Months.
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