Here's another great Forest River Post from my last 4th of july trip! My Cardinal never made it home!!!
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I had a similar problem last year on a Forest River 31-2BH with Kenda Tires E-Rated last fall. This trailer was just over a year old when the Right rear tire blew. When I got back to the dealer where I bought the trailer, they said to take pictures of the damage and send to Kenda Tire USA. I did and they reimbursed me for 5 new Greenball G-Rated tires. I couldn't find a set of Goodyear Tires in 4 states so I went to Discount Tire and they ordered me the Greenball tires. I always treat my tires with a tire dressing, cover them AND jack my trailer up on blocks to take all the weight off the tires so they don't sit all winter like that. -- As you can see below that doesn't help when your suspension parts are paper thin steel. I did check and a magnet did stick to it so I know it was steel ************************** The next trip out (2007 Fourth of July weekend) I blew the right front tire. The tire blowout caused my the right size axle shackles to completely collapse. Forest River doesn't make the frames or axles for it's products. My Cardinal had a Lipert frame and axle on it. Lipert had all new parts to me within a week - including cross braces to tie the right side to the left side. Total damage was just under $3,000 when you take into account: - Welding Fees - 3 New Tires (Yes I blew 2 more just getting it to the welding shop) - Fuel to drive from Denver to take the trailer to a welding shop after it sat at a Forest River dealer's lot for 3 weeks because they were booked up over a month out (how's that for service). You would think that Barney's leaking water tank could have taken a lessor priority than this. - Underbelly damage - Food Last I heard Forest River and Lipert were arguing over who's paying the bill!! This has been a fiasco like you have never seen!!! **************** EMAIL TO FOREST RIVER BELOW: **************** Thanks so much for your willingness to work with me on my Forest River Cardinal 31-2BH. I wanted to give you a complete background on the issues I have had starting last year: Ø July 8th, 2006 I was on I-90 WEST bound near Blue Earth, MN and blew a Right Rear tire on my trailer which caused significant undercarriage damage including completely tearing all of my brake wires. I worked closely with Roger Ansel from Kenda USA and he was able to get me reimbursed for 5 new tires and repairs to the trailer. Gateway RV in Colorado Springs, CO was (but is no longer a Cardinal Dealer) the dealer where I purchased the trailer from and they did the repair work. a. The tires that were on the trailer were Kenda 235/85R/16 LOAD RANGE E Tires. b. I replaced all 5 with Greenball Highway Troopers 235/85R/16 LOAD RANGE G Tires – and I paid the difference in price. Ø June 28th, 2007 I was EAST Bound on I-80 in Council Bluffs, IA at 11:30 PM and blew the Right Front tire (Curb Side) on my trailer and immediately pulled off the road to repair the tire. Once the tire was off of the axel, I noticed that there was damaged to the undercarriage of the trailer, brake wires and axle shackle hardware. I was unable to jack the trailer high enough to put on the spare due to a 8” height difference from the damaged side of the trailer to the other side. I took the tailer to 2 suspension shops and one Non-Forest River RV Dealer and they were unable to help me due to the size of my trailer and the amount of damage. I was able to borrow a larger jack and get the trailer lifted high enough for me to put on the spare to offset the weight difference. This brand new tire lasted ½ mile and blew. This second blow out didn’t appear to cause any additional damage because the right rear tire was rubbing on the undercarriage of my trailer and causing severe smoke from it rubbing on the frame and wood floor of the trailer. I am luck the trailer didn’t catch on fire! The right rear tier did not blow but it also had severe damage. Fortunately, I was able to limp it even further along on the blown tire rim (yes, it is bent) to the closest repair shop that I could find: Complete Truck and Trailer Repair 2045 27th Avenue Council Bluffs, IA 51507-6967 (712) 322-2772 Unable to get anyone from Forest River to answer the phone (left 2 messages for Rod Battes) I had no choice but to authorize Complete Truck and Trailer to perform some repair work to get the trailer where it was able to even be moved. The cost of this was 2.5 hours of labor and $163.18. While these guys were working on the trailer, I went and purchased 3 new tires (235/85R/16 G) tires from S&H Tire in Council Bluffs, IA. The amount was just over $400 for 3 tires – both right side tires and the spare. a. Complete Truck and Trailer Repair has given me a non-inclusive list of the damage to my trailer: i. Equalizer Mounting Bracket was broke. ii. Both right leaf springs are bent. iii. The right shock absorber is completely destroyed. iv. The steel tubing that is welded to the main frame rail of the trailer is bent. Instead of being rectangular in shape it was bent to be more of a trapezoid. 1. It should also be noted that this piece of steel tubing is also bent so it is no longer in perfect alignment with the frame rail above it. v. NOTE: It should also be noted that it appears that there is also damage to the LEFT side (Street side) may also be damaged but not to the extent of the Curb Side. After 3 hours at Complete Truck and Trailer Repair, I was now back on my way to a Forest River Dealer in Council Bluffs (Sand Piper, not Cardinal): Darin Price RV Sales and Service Outdoor Recreation Center 3002 South 11th Street Council Bluffs, IA 51501 (712) 366-9144 derwood@orcrv.com http://www.orcrv.com/ Darin had one of their lead mechanics crawl under and look at the damage the following was his direct quote: “I can’t believe that there isn’t more sturdy metal on this quality of trailer, this is really cheaply built.” My concerns: Will Forest River step up to the plate and get the frame manufacturer to pay for all damages and repairs including: Ø 3 new tires – 235/85R/16 Load Range G. Ø All suspension hardware for both sides of the trailer. Ø Installation and repair charges for this hardware. Ø Repair charges for the undercarriage damage that was caused by this incident. Ø ANY OTHER CHARGES NOT IDENTIFIED OR YET INCURED IN THE ABOUT LIST THAT CAN BE DIRECTLY LINKED TO THIS ISSUE. Ø Mileage and fuel costs to get from my home in Denver, CO to pick up the trailer in Omaha after it is repaired to my satisfaction and back home to Denver since Outdoor Recreation will be unable to even start the repair work for 30 days. This is out of my control and therefore I can’t sit in their “service area waiting room” for a month! There is no reason that it should be repaired back to “as good as new” since this was inadequate. I INSIST that that the suspension parts/components be upgraded to a more heavy duty rating so we don’t have to deal with a similar issue next year. AT NO POINT WAS ANY OBSTICAL OR POT HOLE HIT WITH THIS TRAILER AT HIGH SPEED TO CAUSE THIS DAMAGE!! I have run it over a few curbs when making tight turns but these were not at high speed and certainly the trailer should be able to withstand this minor impact. I do think that both of the blow incidents were caused by the trailer axle hardware deficiency. Chad, thanks again for your prompt attention to this issue. We are avid RV’s and a month of down time during the summer is unfortunate but if that is what it takes to get the trailer fixed better than it was new, then I am willing to make the sacrifice.
Loopy wrote: #1 - I'd have never taken the trailer back.
#2 - I'd be on the phone with someone myself and not waiting for the dealer. They would do anything just to get me to stop calling.
Unfortunately not all situations are similar. I work long hours, travel 3 hours a day for work and am involved with high speed printing machinery that requires constant monitoring and the noise levels make phone conversation impossible. I cannot linger on the phone at work. For now we do it this way so no one can say I did not give all a chance to rectify. I have started to show my fangs slightly and if this continues the gloves will come off.
Certified letters from a paid representative outlining your terms are a great place to start in your situation. Taking the trailer back from the dealer and using it somewhat weakens your position. Personally I would be spending a little money to get some help with this situation.... but we can't really discuss that here without getting your thread locked.
Quote: Terms were basically receiving a different TT model at a set price, accomadations on money paid on accessories bought for TH and basically to be bought out without losing money. The trailer still belongs to us so while I continue to get stroked and even if we get a replacement TT I might as well use it with my grandkids as I would have to wait for a new one to be built.
You have a good case if the your trailer had incorrect or no weight labels fixed to the trailer (as req. by DOT) when it was shipped to you. If the incorrect weights were just "stated weights" you will have no case. In any event, because you took it back and are willing and able to use it, I do not think you will get everything back in a civil court. Maybe the TV drama will get you everything back in a court of public opinion!!!! Taking the gloves off will get you into another court altogether,(criminal)!!! Good Luck, life is always an adventure.
P.S. I am not a lawyer but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express about a year ago.
First, that OEM (original) DOT sticker is your ace in the hole....that alone should get you a replacement (I hope you have it, or a copy!)---the fact that they replaced it with significantly different sticker-weights should be more than enough.
Unrelated to the OP, lemon laws seldom apply to other than drive train & OEM platform on MH rigs. (Some state and/or local provisions might be applicable.)
FWIW: Personally, I'd have pulled the trigger and sought out "professional assistance" long before this. I doubt "fangs" will ever make things better. A "professional letter" describing your "position" and intent to make it stick sure sounds in order.
Good luck!
J
nny12972 wrote: First, that OEM (original) DOT sticker is your ace in the hole....that alone should get you a replacement (I hope you have it, or a copy!)---the fact that they replaced it with significantly different sticker-weights should be more than enough.
Unrelated to the OP, lemon laws seldom apply to other than drive train & OEM platform on MH rigs. (Some state and/or local provisions might be applicable.)
FWIW: Personally, I'd have pulled the trigger and sought out "professional assistance" long before this. I doubt "fangs" will ever make things better. A "professional letter" describing your "position" and intent to make it stick sure sounds in order.
Good luck!
J
The original stickers are still affixed to the trailer. Received new stickers with correction in the mail and have not affixed them and will not. This is one reason why I did not push the weight issue until TH came back from warranty work in case stickers would be changed at factory. This is another reason I brought it home so no one can alter them. Call me mistrusting if you will but it fits.
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************************** The next trip out (2007 Fourth of July weekend) I blew the right front tire. The tire blowout caused my the right size axle shackles to completely collapse. Forest River doesn't make the frames or axles for it's products. My Cardinal had a Lipert frame and axle on it. Lipert had all new parts to me within a week - including cross braces to tie the right side to the left side. Total damage was just under $3,000 when you take into account: - Welding Fees - 3 New Tires (Yes I blew 2 more just getting it to the welding shop) - Fuel to drive from Denver to take the trailer to a welding shop after it sat at a Forest River dealer's lot for 3 weeks because they were booked up over a month out (how's that for service). You would think that Barney's leaking water tank could have taken a lessor priority than this. - Underbelly damage - Food Last I heard Forest River and Lipert were arguing over who's paying the bill!! This has been a fiasco like you have never seen!!! **************** EMAIL TO FOREST RIVER BELOW: **************** Thanks so much for your willingness to work with me on my Forest River Cardinal 31-2BH. I wanted to give you a complete background on the issues I have had starting last year: Ø July 8th, 2006 I was on I-90 WEST bound near Blue Earth, MN and blew a Right Rear tire on my trailer which caused significant undercarriage damage including completely tearing all of my brake wires. I worked closely with Roger Ansel from Kenda USA and he was able to get me reimbursed for 5 new tires and repairs to the trailer. Gateway RV in Colorado Springs, CO was (but is no longer a Cardinal Dealer) the dealer where I purchased the trailer from and they did the repair work. a. The tires that were on the trailer were Kenda 235/85R/16 LOAD RANGE E Tires. b. I replaced all 5 with Greenball Highway Troopers 235/85R/16 LOAD RANGE G Tires – and I paid the difference in price. Ø June 28th, 2007 I was EAST Bound on I-80 in Council Bluffs, IA at 11:30 PM and blew the Right Front tire (Curb Side) on my trailer and immediately pulled off the road to repair the tire. Once the tire was off of the axel, I noticed that there was damaged to the undercarriage of the trailer, brake wires and axle shackle hardware. I was unable to jack the trailer high enough to put on the spare due to a 8” height difference from the damaged side of the trailer to the other side. I took the tailer to 2 suspension shops and one Non-Forest River RV Dealer and they were unable to help me due to the size of my trailer and the amount of damage. I was able to borrow a larger jack and get the trailer lifted high enough for me to put on the spare to offset the weight difference. This brand new tire lasted ½ mile and blew. This second blow out didn’t appear to cause any additional damage because the right rear tire was rubbing on the undercarriage of my trailer and causing severe smoke from it rubbing on the frame and wood floor of the trailer. I am luck the trailer didn’t catch on fire! The right rear tier did not blow but it also had severe damage. Fortunately, I was able to limp it even further along on the blown tire rim (yes, it is bent) to the closest repair shop that I could find: Complete Truck and Trailer Repair 2045 27th Avenue Council Bluffs, IA 51507-6967 (712) 322-2772 Unable to get anyone from Forest River to answer the phone (left 2 messages for Rod Battes) I had no choice but to authorize Complete Truck and Trailer to perform some repair work to get the trailer where it was able to even be moved. The cost of this was 2.5 hours of labor and $163.18. While these guys were working on the trailer, I went and purchased 3 new tires (235/85R/16 G) tires from S&H Tire in Council Bluffs, IA. The amount was just over $400 for 3 tires – both right side tires and the spare. a. Complete Truck and Trailer Repair has given me a non-inclusive list of the damage to my trailer: i. Equalizer Mounting Bracket was broke. ii. Both right leaf springs are bent. iii. The right shock absorber is completely destroyed. iv. The steel tubing that is welded to the main frame rail of the trailer is bent. Instead of being rectangular in shape it was bent to be more of a trapezoid. 1. It should also be noted that this piece of steel tubing is also bent so it is no longer in perfect alignment with the frame rail above it. v. NOTE: It should also be noted that it appears that there is also damage to the LEFT side (Street side) may also be damaged but not to the extent of the Curb Side. After 3 hours at Complete Truck and Trailer Repair, I was now back on my way to a Forest River Dealer in Council Bluffs (Sand Piper, not Cardinal): Darin Price RV Sales and Service Outdoor Recreation Center 3002 South 11th Street Council Bluffs, IA 51501 (712) 366-9144 derwood@orcrv.com http://www.orcrv.com/ Darin had one of their lead mechanics crawl under and look at the damage the following was his direct quote: “I can’t believe that there isn’t more sturdy metal on this quality of trailer, this is really cheaply built.” My concerns: Will Forest River step up to the plate and get the frame manufacturer to pay for all damages and repairs including: Ø 3 new tires – 235/85R/16 Load Range G. Ø All suspension hardware for both sides of the trailer. Ø Installation and repair charges for this hardware. Ø Repair charges for the undercarriage damage that was caused by this incident. Ø ANY OTHER CHARGES NOT IDENTIFIED OR YET INCURED IN THE ABOUT LIST THAT CAN BE DIRECTLY LINKED TO THIS ISSUE. Ø Mileage and fuel costs to get from my home in Denver, CO to pick up the trailer in Omaha after it is repaired to my satisfaction and back home to Denver since Outdoor Recreation will be unable to even start the repair work for 30 days. This is out of my control and therefore I can’t sit in their “service area waiting room” for a month! There is no reason that it should be repaired back to “as good as new” since this was inadequate. I INSIST that that the suspension parts/components be upgraded to a more heavy duty rating so we don’t have to deal with a similar issue next year. AT NO POINT WAS ANY OBSTICAL OR POT HOLE HIT WITH THIS TRAILER AT HIGH SPEED TO CAUSE THIS DAMAGE!! I have run it over a few curbs when making tight turns but these were not at high speed and certainly the trailer should be able to withstand this minor impact. I do think that both of the blow incidents were caused by the trailer axle hardware deficiency. Chad, thanks again for your prompt attention to this issue. We are avid RV’s and a month of down time during the summer is unfortunate but if that is what it takes to get the trailer fixed better than it was new, then I am willing to make the sacrifice.
