I have read the previous post on winter camping and I want to start a new thread. Has anyone done in a specific modifications to a Seneca for 4 season camping? We are interested in a Jayco Seneca but we want the ability to use it year round and possibly using the water full time. We had a Big Foot 29 G that survived - 50°F but sold it last fall. Really want to be able to continue our winter camping but want to get more motorhome for our buck, thus the Seneca Choice.
Ideas a dealer gave us:
1. Put a furnace in the underbelly where the holding tanks are enclosed. This heater then would be committed just to the enclosed tanks and not trying to heat the coach also. Do you Seneca owners think that will work? Will it also keep the water lines from freezing up?
2. Heat tape around water lines
3. Put some insulation in the enclosed tanks. This would help lock in some heat to keep tanks from freezing.
A Seneca costs a good chunk of money so we are looking for people who have experience in this area before we proceed. Would love to have another Big Foot and not have to worry but the 4000 models are to steep of a price.
Any info or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
We took our 36fs back to IA over Christmas, but I winterrized it first. I would be more worried about the water lines inside the coach than the holding tanks, those should be fine with plenty of antifreeze. When I camp in cold climiates I make sure to keep the furnace running and a electric space heater running and keep the cabinets open so the heat can get to the water lines. When hooked up to full hookups I leave the faucet open to keep the water moving.
We lived fulltime in our Seneca 35GS this past winter in temps averaging 10 deg. We were in an RV park, thank heaven! It was not a pleasant experience. The Senecas are not made for extreme cold, think "no insulation". We heat taped the waterline, put an old quilt and 2 heat lamps in the storage compartment where the water and dump valves are, left the water dripping in the kitchen all the time (had to dump the grey water tank everyday), skirted the bottom of the whole rig, hooked up a 100# propane tank, ran a combination of the furnace and an oil heater and Mr Buddy Heater all the time, left cupboard doors open, and closed off the cab portion with blankets. I also made window inserts from Warm Windows material and covered the cab windows with the foil bubble stuff.
If you want to check out how well insulated they are, just get down and look in the cupboards...under the kitchen sink you can see daylight where all the outside entertainment stuff is and at night we could see the glow of the heat lamps from under the bathroom sink.
We kept the beer on the floor behind the recliner and it was the perfect temp for drinking!
You should have kept the BigFoot!
2006 Jayco Seneca 35GS
1993 Ford Ranger toad, converted to flatbed to haul our ATVs
2006 Toyota Tacoma TRD
2 ATVs
2 Border Collies
pics of our Seneca changes
When the Senecas first came out I looked closely at them and in my opinion they were not a good design for winter camping. There has been one change that I have seen and that was the origional models used galvanized sheet metal for the basement compartments. Now they use rotocast plastic. But they still have a major problem for winter use.
The problem is that Jayco does not insulate the basement compartments. They just enclose them, using rotocast plastic. Without insulation the plastic will not hold in much heat even if you run the furnace constantly. It would be like going out in the winter with a light weight coat. As long as you are exercising you can stay somewhat warm. But as soon as you stop exercising you get cold because you need a more insulated jacket, pants and shoes.
The dealers idea of adding a second furnace is a poor idea. It will have to run a lot, again because of no basement insulation. It would use a lot of propane.
Go look at a Seneca and look closely at these two areas. If similar to the models I looked at open the passenger side storage compartment near the rear wheels. Notice how thin are the rotocast plastic compartments sides and floor. If there is a carpeted panel hanging down reach under it. You may find it is the fresh water tank on the other side and there is no insulation surrounding it.
Now go to the driver's side and open the compartment for the dump valves. You will see the dump valves and also some vent pipes from the furnace. Below this area is this nice looking plastic or fiberglass floor designed to catch and water that leakes from using the dump valves. How thick is this "catch pan"? It is probably 1/4" thick. Reach under it and along the outside of it and you will feel no insulation. How warm will this area with the dump valves stay unless the furnace is running a lot. Put insulation "in" the tanks. Did you mean to say around the tanks?
Check the specs for the amount of wall and ceiling insulation. Compare that with the Bigfoot 3000 Series motorhomes. Bigfoot uses urethane foam that is rated R-6.5 or R-7 per inch. Jayco probably uses expanded polystyrene, bead board, that is R-4 per inch.
In my opinion the Seneca is a 3 season camper but not a 4 season and not designed for winter use. Unfortunately, you sold the best winter motorhome when you sold your Bigfoot.
cm wrote: Unfortunately, you sold the best winter motorhome when you sold your Bigfoot.
Yup.
My Jayco GR is not a 4 season coach. I do not think there is anything you can do to make it a 4 season coach. We go riding in the desert where it gets to 25 degrees at night. We drove to Nebraska for Easter where we stayed in a Wal Mart overnight where it was 10 degrees. It was cold.
Good luck.
Jim and Deanna
Tiffin Allegro 35QBA 2007 Carson Trailer 22' Titan TH Trailer Toad
Me, Wife, Boy/10, Boy/7, Girl/5
Faith/Springer
1985 Toyota 4Runner
five quads, three kids, two motorcycles, one wife, one dog, one cat!
I do not know any more than I have read, but the Gulf Stream Conquest Super C Ultra lists an "artic package" as an option. Click Here I do know that the the Gulf Stream Endura did have thermo-pane windows as an option which would greatly increase the warmth inside the unit.
Thanks Guys for the info. I knew what answers I would probably get but I thought I would try. Yes, we know we sold the best 4 season RV there is and now wish we would not have. We do need some more room so we will begin looking at Big Foots with slides. The Seneca just grabbed my attention because of how roomy and affordable it is compared to a Big Foot 4000 series. It does have thermo pane windows and heated storage tanks but not insulated. From what I gather from most of your experiences is insulation is vital! Jayco does use bead board for their insulation, sounds like not as good as Big Foots urethane foam insulation.
One last question does anyone know what the Artic package consists of on a Gulfstream Conquest?
The lack of insulation on the Jayco is probably for weight savings. The unit is already too heavy for the chassis, so not adding 100's of pounds of insulation that the average purchaser will never need, is a cost and weight savings. I had to stay in mine one night when it was in the lower 30's. The heat ran a lot. I could not imagine staying in it at 10 degrees. BRRRRRR. I am not complaining as I did not buy it for cold weather use.
I have used mine during winter months in AK and the furnace was working overtime. I looked at the smae things that you are hearing and did find some mods that helped. On the slides, there are holes under the slides on the MH side or the slide rails and the electrical conduits. On my BDRM slide that is rubber installed around the holes but not in the front two slides. I filled these gaps with foam I cut. I remove them before retracting the slides.
I too noticed the daylight coming in and complained to the dealer but things are always fixed to ones satisfaction when we do it. I plugged as many of the holes as possible with foam. I did also spot a gap on the back wall floor that I am brining to the dealers attention next week. I will repost this problem after I hear wht the dealer says.
As for the water issue, I had great suscess with using a small cermatic heater to keep the water manifold from freezing. I placed two drop lights in the bay with the fresh water tank and it kept it water running. I dumped the tanks every morning and then took a hot shower to help keep the pipes clear.
The fresh water tank did have some insuilation on it but not much and I plan to replace it. I did not have to heat tape any waterlines but did insulate and heat tape the hose connection.
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