Joe, As you know from reading the AFNash Forum I just upsized the tires on my Nash 22H from the OEM 205's to 225's increasing the tire load rating from 7280 lbs to 10,240 lbs. For a TT running down the road at 5500 lbs loaded (minus ~ 500 lbs hitch weight) this by most would be considered a gross overkill so I think the upgrade you already did going to 225's should be adequate IMHO.
My justification for doing the upsize was to get rid of the OEM Mission tires and thought why not build in some extra safety tire margin as well as the price difference between 205's and 225's is not that much.. Remember the axles are rated for only 7000 lbs (2 x 3500) anyway which is probably why the manufacturers are using the 205's as OEM. The problem is they are using cheap tires to save a few bucks.............Again IMHO.
First of all, I'm the kind of guy that likes "overkill" & a large safety margin. I'm trying to avoid having to change a tire on the road & the resulting damage that can occur with a tire separation.
Frankly, with all the stories I've read about "ST" trailer tire failures & the fact that they're all made in the Orient, now, I'm kind of afraid of using them, especially, if there is a reasonable alternative available, (LT truck tires).
I have not been able to find an LT truck tire in 15" sizes that has enough of a load carrying capacity. That IS one of the advantages of the ST tires in the 15" sizes.
Numerous times, now, I've heard that you should not run ST tires more than 3 years (according to the date code stamped on the tire). So, if you buy an ST tire that has been sitting in storage for a year before you buy it, you "technically" only get 2 years of use out of it. Gotta watch those date codes!!!! The LT tires are supposed to have a usefull life of 5 to 6 years. Almost double that of the ST's. Rarely do you hear of people having problems with LT's & a lot of folks are switching over to them. It seems to me that the LT's may be "the answer".
Right now, my main concern is whether the correct bolt pattern is available in 16" trailer wheels. It seems that the 1-1/2" clearance between the two tires is enough.
Thanks again for all your reply's. I REALLY appreciate all your help & suggestions.
Joseph Fihn wrote: WOW!!!!! Thanks for all the great replys.
First of all, I'm the kind of guy that likes "overkill" & a large safety margin. I'm trying to avoid having to change a tire on the road & the resulting damage that can occur with a tire separation.
you could put 10.00x 22's on it and not guarantee not having a flat or a blow out... remember the saying that just because a little of something is good doesn't mean a lot is better... this is true here also... even if you reduce the risk of a blow-out somewhat, the blow-out itself is more violent due to the larger tire coming apart and the higher pressures involved...
Frankly, with all the stories I've read about "ST" trailer tire failures & the fact that they're all made in the Orient, now, I'm kind of afraid of using them, especially, if there is a reasonable alternative available, (LT truck tires).
actually all tires have a higher rate of failure than any part on a vehicle... matters not if it is ST, LT, or P metric... just go to the class B forum and read about tire problems... they don't use ST tires...
also remember what you hear are the ones having problems (many self inflicted) and is really a small percentage in the grand scheme of things...
and on this site the bulk of the problems are on OEM and not so much replacements even not upgraded replacements...
I believe after much research, most of these tires were damaged before delivery to the owner...
also remember the OEM's are grossly undersized and barely legal for their intended use...
I have not been able to find an LT truck tire in 15" sizes that has enough of a load carrying capacity. That IS one of the advantages of the ST tires in the 15" sizes.
and here is a big problem...
most LT tires are not made in the sizes we need for most TT's and ST tires are not made in the sizes for heavier RV's
Numerous times, now, I've heard that you should not run ST tires more than 3 years (according to the date code stamped on the tire). So, if you buy an ST tire that has been sitting in storage for a year before you buy it, you "technically" only get 2 years of use out of it. Gotta watch those date codes!!!! The LT tires are supposed to have a usefully life of 5 to 6 years. Almost double that of the ST's. Rarely do you hear of people having problems with LT's & a lot of folks are switching over to them. It seems to me that the LT's may be "the answer".
this is news to me... most tire mfg's recommend somewhere between 4 to 8 years... I personally have used them even longer and have had them check on the short end... that is one reason I check mine so often... even when not in use...
all tires need run to keep them alive... it is the flexing and normal heat that causes the protective chemicals to come to the surface of the tire... this is even true with asphalt driveways that crack like checkerboards from to little use... RV's send to much time sitting in one spot which is hard on the cords as well...
Right now, my main concern is whether the correct bolt pattern is available in 16" trailer wheels. It seems that the 1-1/2" clearance between the two tires is enough.
I am not sure about your trailer, but finding a rim with the same setback and bolt pattern (I am guess yours are only five bold) and rated for trailer use may be hard to find, but I haven't looked...
minimum clearance between the tires is 1 ", but I personally wouldn't run them that close...
Thanks again for all your reply's. I REALLY appreciate all your help & suggestions.
Joe Fihn
good luck with your effort, but I think you have been led astray...
Love my mass produced, entry level, built by Lazy American Workers, Hornet
I thought some of you might like to read this letter I found in Tire Business.Com
Eating crow with chopsticks
I’ve enjoyed your paper for many years and depend on you to find and pass along to us the facts and truth in the industry.
I retired from the U.S. Navy in 1981, bought this business, and 26 years later I’m still enjoying selling and fixing tires for my customers in this very small south Texas city.
When Goodyear dropped production of some of its private label tires, my distributor, Homann Tire Ltd. of San Antonio, had to find a reliable source for ST or trailer tires. The Towmaster brand tire we had used, made by Goodyear in Canada, had proved to be reliable but now was gone.
I convinced Homann that the Titan brand from Titan International Inc. should be a very good tire to add to our line. Proud American Maurice “Morry” Taylor Jr., Titan’s chairman and CEO, had convinced me that he was in fact a believer in American-made quality.
The many articles you have published over the years in Tire Business about Titan and Morry even made me purchase Titan stock about five years ago, and I’ve enjoyed watching Titan come back to well-being.
Your most recent article (July 2, 2007) about Titan and the United Steelworkers union seeking duties on Chinese off-the-road tire imports should make any American feel good about Titan, Morry, and pride in the U.S.A.
So imagine my surprise and absolute disgust when I received my first shipment of Titan trailer tires recently and found an American flag proudly displayed on each sidewall—but in the bead area, easily covered by the rim, were the words “Made in China.”
The first thing I did was to dump my Titan stock. I’m sure that little action will not bother Morry, but as I proudly fly my American flag each day, it made me feel better.
The second thing I did was to call Titan and ask how they had the guts to do this, even as I listened, while on hold, to a phone message from Morry himself running down Michelin North America Inc., Bridgestone/Firestone, and anything made in China.
How far into Titan production does this go?
Rufus Moore
Owner-operator
Moores Tire Center
Three Rivers, Texas
Editor’s note: Tire Business contacted Titan’s Mr. Taylor for a response to the concerns expressed by Mr. Moore. His explanation follows:
“We made the tires in the U.S. to fulfill an order. We got out of the business of manufacturing (ST trailer tires), but we had to fulfill certain contracts to some U.S. trailer manufacturers that liked the tread pattern.
They then turned around and told us, ‘Hey, you still have to keep some of these in the aftermarket (for our customers).’
“We used to manufacture over a million of these similar type tires and sizes. I don’t do that anymore…. So we have to have those for the aftermarket, these tread designs.
“What we’re doing now is, I said to our guys in the Des Moines, Iowa, plant, ‘I don’t (care about) the sidewall. I don’t want to publicize boat trailer tires. I’m out of this business. So use the Dico brand on them—because we own Dico (formerly Dico Tire Inc. in Clinton, Tenn.)
“Fit, form, function and tread pattern of these tires are the same. Is the name on the tires now different? Yes. That way, (customers) can’t say we left them high and dry without tires….”
Mr. Taylor added that the original Titan trailer tire molds were sold to a Chinese tire manufacturer (Tianjin Normandy Rubber Co. Ltd., according to the DOT code), and that company has been told by Titan to remove the Titan name—and Grizz logo—from the molds.
Thanks for your reply. It appears that you think that I have been "led astray". Maybe, you're right? Maybe, not!
I have read of many tire horror stories on the net & the majority of them involve trailer rated tires. A personal friend of mine has had two trailer tires "blow" while mounted on the bumper as spare tires. They weren't even on the ground!!! He, also, had one blow on a trip (all Goodyear Marathon's or Towmasters, made in Canada by Goodyear). My friend is fanatical about tire care & pressures. Checks them everyday when travelling & has a quality portable compressor to service them. I check my tires before each trip & give them a "kick" every morning & when I stop. Probably just luck but, I've never had one blow, either. I'd really like to keep that lucky streak going, too.
Unlike you, I don't seem to see anywhere near the tire problems in other vehicles like I do with trailer tires. Honestly, I have not checked the Class B Motorhome forum for tire failures. Since I don't have a Class B, it has not been an issue, for me. However, trailer tires & LT pick-up truck tires certainly are. If one checks into Trailer & Towing Forums I can pretty much guarantee that you will find an extraordinary number of "failure" stories.
I'm really not trying to argue, with you. Just trying to find a better way around the ST trailer tire issues & I appreciate all the help I can get.
Your ability to get 4 to 8 years out of a set of trailer tires is fantastic. I live in Phoenix, AZ. (Desert climate) & my Towmasters were full of sidewall cracks, last Summer. The code date on all of them is February of '04. Just over three years old!!! When you go to the tire stores, they will tell you that is what to expect from trailer tires. That's, also, what has been recommended on the websites I follow. LT truck tires, on the other hand, have a life expectancy of five to six years, here in the desert. I guess the money I save on not having to buy a snowblower I have to spend on tires!!!
I agree with you that the LT225/75/16-E's are excessive but, they are, also, the closest thing I have found that would be a tougher tire for my trailer & I thought I'd share the info. I found & see what you guys thought about this combination. There is a towing company, here in town, that is switching over to this combo & it seems to be working for them.
Thank you, for your interest in this thread. Again, you may be right. Certainly wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.
Unlike you, I don't seem to see anywhere near the tire problems in other vehicles like I do with trailer tires. Honestly, I have not checked the Class B Motorhome forum for tire failures. Since I don't have a Class B, it has not been an issue, for me. However, trailer tires & LT pick-up truck tires certainly are. If one checks into Trailer & Towing Forums I can pretty much guarantee that you will find an extraordinary number of "failure" stories.
I'm really not trying to argue, with you. Just trying to find a better way around the ST trailer tire issues & I appreciate all the help I can get.
Joe Fihn
Joe
nor am I trying to argue with you... but I am saying it is a tire issue... the difference you see in trailer tires and cars and trucks is a result of less regulation placed on the RV industry, and the unwillingness of the industry to do the right thing... it is the unusual loading requirements placed on the trailer tires... 4 tires at the corners as in trucks would be stressed far less than the same 4 tires with the same load in the center balanced on the tires..
there are reasons for the higher failure rate you see in trailer tires... given the same circumstance you would see the same failure rate in truck tires...
I think to make matters worse half of the trailer tires are compromised before the trailer is sold by low inflation during transport and storage on dealers lots...combined with the industry undersizeing them...
I understand well what you are tryng to do, but by using info from apples and info from oranges and buying bananas, you may come out of it with a better bananas... which is good but maybe bananas aren't what you need...
the right solution is more regulation placed on the RV industry, they won't do it otherwise, and for some reason we aren't even asking...
one more thing changing tire sizes changes the handling geometry of the trailer it could reduce the risk of a tire failure but increase other risk... for example lowering the rpm's of the wheel would lower the effectiveness of the brakes at a given speed... this may be a adjustment for one trailer and just lost braking for another...
I agree with you that the RV Industry & RV tire manufacturers need to "step up to the plate" & start demanding & building a better tire product.
A couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to speak with the man in charge of Goodyear's problem tire dept. He told me that the ST tires are only tested to 65 MPH. That's why they are only rated to that speed. I asked "why?" because, the speed limit ,here in AZ, is 75 MPH. I assume it is elsewhere, also. He didn't know. That was about the time when Goodyear started adding a layer of nylon to the outside steel & polyester belts. The steel & polyester expand when heated & were thought to add considerably to the tire failures they had been seeing. The nylon does not expand, when heated, and acted like a "girdle" holding the steel & polyester in place.
A couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to speak with the man in charge of Goodyear's problem tire dept. He told me that the ST tires are only tested to 65 MPH. That's why they are only rated to that speed. I asked "why?" because, the speed limit ,here in AZ, is 75 MPH. I assume it is elsewhere, also. He didn't know.
Thanks.
Joe Fihn
I asked the very same question about the speed from several rv mfg's and a guy from the rubber mfg's association... while the answers were different they were answers... they are as follows...
from the RV mfg's, 65 is a industry standard for the engineer and design of the unit, so chassis and other industry related items have just adopted the standard... apparently the issue has never been reviewed to see if it needs changed or updated... I also asked if these are written standards and if and where I could find them... that question was never sufficiently answered...
from the rubber mfg assoc. due to the load requirements and shock experienced by the tires that was considered to be the maximum safe speed for the tire mfg's to achieve, and that was 10 MPH more that all domestic truck mfg's recommend as a safe towing speed for their cars and trucks... he took the time to tell me that many of the bus tires used on RV's are also tagged with a max, speed rating of 55MPH and that LT tires speed rating when used on a RV is reduced to either 70 or 75 MPH maximum (I just don't remember which)...
if the RV mfg would size them to carry the full GVWR of the trailer without deducting the tongue weight, check air pressure at the first station of the build line, require transporters to check and air as necessary before leaving the lot... you would read very few of these post... then if we did our part correctly the problem would be nothing like we think it is... I say think it is because many of the post are only saying what they believe based on other post that were based on second hand knowledge of their friend who used to live near them...
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